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[amar212]

Sorry Jeff.

You may understand technology, but you are thin on economy.

Console business is amazing place for constant revenue, perpetuating income and building and ecosystem of users to your other products and/or services.

With internet becoming faster and with all entertainment services being "hubbed" in the online, the need for consoles will become more and more interesting.

Consoles are the future, not the past. Plug-and-play is the way.

And economy adore constant money flow. It makes it happy.

 

[Caronte]

Game consoles are becoming PCs and viceversa (Steam Machines). That doesn't mean consoles are dead, they are simply adapting to the present.

 

[SerTapTap]

Pach and jeff are the exact opposite. One knows the market, the other know the technology.

I miss Michael.

Are you implying Michael Pachter knows something, because I'm pretty sure that's demonstrably false.

TV are built to be outdated in 5-10 years time anyway, whether because of immaturity of the LCD or simply due to purposefully built in obsolescence. When my Philips died after only six years I bought a Smart TV and ever since I've been hitting myself for the head I haven't done so sooner. Can't help but laugh when MS puts youtube behind Live Gold or I see people discussing which console is best for Netflix. TVs already take care of all that guys. I can totally see streaming become so good that most people can play one console generation older games easily on smart TVs.

If anything bandwidth caps are pushing internet connectivity into regression rather than progression. Assumptions of streaming services being remotely acceptable as a complete and total replacement seem crazy overdue and must take place in a universe where everyone has Google Fiber that's never gone done.

 

[Nzyme32]

Game consoles are becoming PCs and viceversa (Steam Machines). That doesn't mean consoles are dead, they are simply adapting to the present.

Pretty much. There will he more convergence in future. What I think of is that consoles as a concept are changing. They are not plug and play today, as they were with the nes and SNES. In that sense you could argue the consoles of 1996 are dead

 

[Ghost_Messiah]

As per the most recent NPD report the PS4 and Xbox One are outpacing the PS3 and Xbox 360 respectively by 65 percent in terms of total unit sales compared to the last generation. Ergo the combined install base for the latter stood at ~17 million consoles at this point in the life cycle of those systems whilst the former stands at ~29 million.

The PS4 and Xbox One are ~12 million units ahead of the previous generation. They had stronger launches. They're selling far more rapidly compared to their predecessors. The PS4 particularly is lighting the entire world on fire. The numbers are in. Consoles are not going anywhere. Not this generation nor the next.

The sentiment is misguided, without basis or foundation and the very idea is a myth.

 

[Flappy]

Local hardware will eventually be replaced by Cloud services. You will be renting everything and not owning shit.

Pc and consoles all dead.

Then when some pissed off teenager DDOS' the server, we have to sit with our thumbs up our asses for a week or so

Bleak future for electronic entertainment.

 

[JNT]

Sony will encourage Linux development and Android, which is a virtual engine running on a OpenGL Linux kernel.

As someone who frequently does OpenGL programming in a Linux environment, I have no idea what you are talking about here.

What is an "OpenGL Linux kernel" and how does it differ from the regular Linux kernel? Are you saying that Android is a virtual engine? What is a "virtual engine" anyway? Did you mean virtual machine?

I'm confused. That's not to discredit your point, just that the terminology used here beyond anything I've heard before.

 

[small44]

I didn't read the article but no console are not dead

 

[barneystuta83]

I can't believe people are quoting this like it's at all true.

How can I get this to stop stuttering? Sometimes I can't even keep track of what's going on because it's so stilted in motion and sometimes the game will just pause for a second or more at a time during action-heavy sequences.

I've got an i5 2320 @ 3.00GHz and a GTX 670 OC 2GB. Are 'Extra' textures too much for a 2GB card? Are there any magical performance killing settings that I should turn down or off?

welp, I did the usual "turn everything up to max" ritual I do with all games with my new rig (before checking this thread) and...oh boy, wsnt pretty lol. Thankfully I just assumed something must be broken before panicking that my new rig is already outdated.

So, turn off shadow cashe thing should be my first step then, and probably not max supersampling also >_>

edit: also weird that it doesnt have a official SLI profile, all the other COD games had one, and the latest driver said ready for AW :/

Game now runs beuatifully for me in SLI. Finally!

Wait wait, i got tearing hell too now, what do i have to do, again? (ingame vsync is active).

Disable in-game vsync.
Enable vsync in your CP.

I still can't fathom out why they had to replace their vsync implementation. It worked well enough.

Even though the vsync forced through the CP works perfectly.

Running a 780 and i7 960 here /w 8GB ram and getting really bad cutscene framerates. Gameplay is fine and matches the aforementioned benches, but during cutscenes the framerate always dips to exactly 15 FPS for some reason.

Ouch, Redcliffe Village has some serious performance issues for me. I'm there now and if I look in certain directions I drop as low as 30fps which is by far the lowest frame rate I've seen so far. Outside questing I'm at 60fps locked 99% of the time and it's only towns that drop me, but usually to 40 - 50fps so Redcliffe is considerably worse. I'm playing on a mix of high/ultra with a GTX 970/i5 3570k @ 4.4GHz.

Did you try that file that I posted at the top of this page that has a new exe in it?

I will give it a try. Thanks.

This is the problem signature

Problem Event Name: APPCRASH
Application Name: AI.exe
Application Version: 0.0.0.0
Application Timestamp: 5475ee6c
Fault Module Name: gameoverlayrenderer.dll
Fault Module Version: 2.55.74.58
Fault Module Timestamp: 5494af20
Exception Code: c00000fd
Exception Offset: 0006dde9
OS Version: 6.1.7601.2.1.0.256.1
Locale ID: 1033
Additional Information 1: 40dd
Additional Information 2: 40ddc09f448bf36929c489e4f373db74
Additional Information 3: dced
Additional Information 4: dced92120493d468f73e4e4a0616cbe2

seems to be a problem with the gameoverlayrenderer, problem is I can't find a solution to this issue...

All these posts are taken from recent "PC Performance" topics.

While people who want to, can get a better experience. Those who post on Gaf or reach out for help.

But what if you just want to play?

 

[Genio88]

Why would they do that?, actually Playstation is maybe the only Sony's profitable product, and also Microsoft is having great results with Xbox 360(best selling 7th gen console) and Xbox One. I guess we'll see at least another generation of traditional consoles from both Microsoft, Sony and Nintendo, i don't want to look further forward, cause nobody could tell what could happen in more than 10 years from now.

 

[shinobi602]

Death of the con-

After 14 months on the market, cumulative sales of PS4 and Xbox One exceed the Xbox 360 and PS3 cumulative 14 month total by 65 percent.

Oh

 

[epmode]

Local hardware will eventually be replaced by Cloud services. You will be renting everything and not owning shit.

Pc and consoles all dead.

The neat thing about VR taking off is that it means this will never happen.

 

[koutoru]

Local hardware will eventually be replaced by Cloud services. You will be renting everything and not owning shit.

Pc and consoles all dead.

Eventually, one day, this will happen.
It won't matter what console you have or even what your rig is since all the processing is done in the cloud.

However, I still don't see this happening anytime soon.

 

[Boombox On]

And finally, probably the most important flaw here: OP's assumption that the consoles exist for technical reasons, as opposed to marketing, convenience and ecosystem shepherding.

This is the real reason why this thread started off with nonsense and got worse.

 

[Jburton]

Jeff I love your posts but you're not always right and sometimes seem mental.

Good luck.

 

[Carlius]

At least post on your main account, Pachter.

just like PC.

 

[Trago]

While consoles are still more convenient, they definitely aren't just plug and play anymore. You're getting things like console and game firmware updates, game installations, etc.

 

[Basileus777]

The OP really needs to learn how to make a clear argument instead of throwing a mess of jargon around.

 

[Circinae]

But what if you just want to play?

You can, at fairly large expense with relation to performance. This is the point. Those people you have decided to cherry pick can actually do something about their issues. A game that runs poorly on a console will forever run poorly on a console. This is the difference between someone who is an enthusiast and someone who has a less invested interest in a hobby.

I'm not going to even address the incredibly daft conception that actually installing and playing a game on a PC is remotely challenging. Archaic.

 

[Ghost_Messiah]

Death of the con-

After 14 months on the market, cumulative sales of PS4 and Xbox One exceed the Xbox 360 and PS3 cumulative 14 month total by 65 percent.

Oh

This was the exact point I was trying to make with my post; though you summed it up far more elegantly and succinctly. The PS4 and Xbox One are tracking ahead of their predecessors by a significant margin; selling far more rapidly at ~12 million units ahead of the consoles that preceded them.

Consoles are alive and well and are not going anywhere anytime soon. Again the very idea is a myth.

 

[ReBurn]

While consoles are still more convenient, they definitely aren't just plug and play anymore. You're getting things like console and game firmware updates, game installations, etc.

Most console updates are one button press, if that. Even that process is simple.

 

[JamesAR15]

Yep I'm totally sure my neighbor that can barely browse to google is going to setup a linux/BSD box to start playing his Sony games.

As much as the PC master race wants them to, consoles aren't going anywhere anytime soon.

 

[Dr. Kaos]

Jeff, that was a thoughtful and interesting post, but, as many pointed out, your predictions fail too take too many vital things into account (fixed hardware, the rise of appliance, sales numbers, etc.) and you base it on the fact that X1/PS4 have adopted x86 architecture for the first time. So maybe all future consoles will be lightly modified/optimized PCs from now on, they'll still be "consoles", just consoles that do more things, as has been the trend for a couple decades at least.

Local hardware will eventually be replaced by Cloud services. You will be renting everything and not owning shit.

Pc and consoles all dead.

Can Crusher
Does not understand the speed of light.

 

[Bjomesphat]

All these posts are taken from recent "PC Performance" topics.

While people who want to, can get a better experience. Those who post on Gaf or reach out for help.

But what if you just want to play?

If you just want to play, get a PC. Just because there are idiots out there that feel the need to play at 2k, 120 fps, SLI, 21:9 ratio, etc., doesn't mean PC gaming doesn't work for everyone else that just wants the normal intended experience. I play my games at 1080p60 with effects on high or whatever is optimal for my PC. It's the console experience that looks and performs just a bit better. But, I also have the option to push it further, run mods, and I'm not limited to a single machine. You know what really sucks? Not being able to play any PS3 games on my PS4, but PC games from 10 years ago play fine on my current PC, and PC games I buy now will play fine in another 10 years.

 

[ReBurn]

You can, at fairly large expense with relation to performance. This is the point. Those people you have decided to cherry pick can actually do something about their issues. A game that runs poorly on a console will forever run poorly on a console. This is the difference between someone who is an enthusiast and someone who has a less invested interest in a hobby.

I'm not going to even address the incredibly daft conception that actually installing and playing a game on a PC is remotely challenging. Archaic.

Untrue since last gen. Come on.

 

[Phediuk]

PS4 and Xbone are outselling their predecessors by a wide margin though.

 

[JC Lately]

What is with us as an industry/enthusiast culture that we are always is such a rush to announce things as 'dead'? Why can't we just let, I dunno, reality decide. Consoles will be dead when people stop buying consoles. The opposite is hapenning now.

Most console updates are one button press, if that. Even that process is simple.

Hell, consoles these days will update on standby while you're asleep.

 

[riflen]

If you just want to play, get a PC. Just because there are idiots out there that feel the need to play at 2k, 120 fps, SLI, 21:9 ratio, etc., doesn't mean PC gaming doesn't work for everyone else that just wants the normal intended experience. I play my games at 1080p60 with effects on high or whatever is optimal for my PC. It's the console experience that looks and performs just a bit better. But, I also have the option to push it further, run mods, and I'm not limited to a single machine. You know what really sucks? Not being able to play any PS3 games on my PS4, but PC games from 10 years ago play fine on my current PC, and PC games I buy now will play fine in another 10 years.

Wow. Your language is way off here. Be careful to not insult large numbers of people. Also, those "idiots" are helping to drive down the price of the technology you're using in your PC to get a "normal intended experience", whatever the fuck that is.

 

[Bjomesphat]

Wow. Your language is way off here. Be careful to not insult large numbers of people. Also, those "idiots" are helping to drive down the price of the technology you're using in your PC to get a "normal intended experience", whatever the fuck that is.

Fair enough. How about enthusiasts that I feel are wasting their money for an experience with negligible gains.

 

[Tigress]

Your reasons completely ignore why people who prefer consoles pick consoles. Only one of those reasons is why those who prefer consoles go with consoles (the one about exclusives) and in general those who get consoles for exclusives do so in addition to their PC.

Speak to me when it will be possible to buy one already put together pc that will have games that you can just see says will play on that specific pc and that is all you need to know to know the game will run at a consistant quality (reviews and box art can tell you what you can expect on how it runs on your computer). Oh and also, you know it will be quite a few years before you have to worry about upgrading anything.

Then you can claim there will be no market for a console cause PC has taken its place.

 

[sirronoh]

Now if only Jeff could convince all the developers and publishers making millions of dollars on consoles to just, you know, stop doing that and focus exclusively on PC, his argument might begin to seem reasonable.

 

[RPGamer92]

Waah, why do people buy other cars when Ferrari are the best!!11

 

[belmonkey]

Surely PC will look like a more compelling option in a year or so with DX12 and low-power GPUs like the GTX 750 (ti) that can simply be plugged into a home PC for ~$100 and match or exceed console performance.

 

[IAmRandom31]

The console as we have today will eventually die but I see the console just evolving, not dying. The PS5 will likely be centered around high level streaming technology utilizing the built up network they will have by the end of this generation. Digital Rental services other then PS Now will likely spring up for all titles during this generation.

Thats the way I see the Playstation platform evolving. Sony using PS Now for all Playstation titles, past and present and centering the next console around the idea of streaming technology. I see Digital game sales to reach the 50% range for most titles by the end of this generation as well.

The next PS5 will still be your standard console, just with more emphasis and design around boosting whatever internet speeds you may have available.

 

[Einhander]

The market will decide if consoles are no longer desired. They continue will be. Convenience trumps specs.

 

[bomblord1]

Ease of setup and use
Price

 

[tokkun]

This thread is suffering from the fact that the OP never defined what he meant by 'console'.

• Is it supposed to be defined by having fixed hardware specs? Wait, you can upgrade the storage in existing systems, and could upgrade the RAM in the N64, a system universally accepted as a console. That is a similar level of upgradability to iMacs, which are universally not considered to be consoles.
  
• Then is it supposed to be defined by having a single platform holder who creates the hardware and software? Again, Apple presents a counter example.
  
• It it defined by only running game software? But clearly current consoles run a variety of non-game apps.
  
• Should we go further and say that it can only run apps that are whitelisted by the platform holder? Again we run into Apple. Plus we have the historical counter examples, like the era of Other OS on PS3.
  
• Are consoles defined by using at least some non-commodity parts? That would require us to ignore the recent wave of 'microconsoles' using commodity ARM platforms.
  
• Maybe we want to define the console by its software architecture. But hold on once more. Many of the once-defining aspects of the console development model, like the lack of multi-tasking (all modern consoles) or the lack of emphasis on higher-level hardware-agnostic APIs (DirectX on XB1), are already gone from the console. And the console-like emphasis on low-level, architecture-aware APIs is slipping into the PC (Mantle, OpenCL/CUDA).
  
• Even the idea of having software target a single hardware spec is not a hard-and-fast rule in consoles. The aforementioned N64 had games that could run in higher resolution if you had the RAM expansion. The current 3DS / New 3DS situation in handheld consoles offers the same possibility.
  

So, how about being clear about what it is that is dying when you say game consoles are dying. While you are at it, explain why this represents a death, rather than an evolution.

 

[Sheriff_Battlesnake]

nottodisushittoagen.gif

I would read more than the first three bullet points if they added more to the discussion than the usual shallow arguments. Yet, they didn't. Hence, I am outta here.

Btw, wrong thread title. It should read something like "why PC is not going to die".

Not To Dis U, Shit Loagen was my first read through before asking Google. I was getting some mixed messages there. I mean, you just called him Shit Loagen.

But yeah, maybe when the barrier to entry is comparable, gaming moves to primarily (not entirely) digital, an easy to pick up OS that makes as much sense to the laymen as 360s (because screw the OS's so far on current gen) and maybe we use more cloud functionality to keep from buying gobs of hard drives, we might see the transition.

I just don't think there has been enough of a pull to learn how to use the PC. Maybe Microsoft 10 will actually follow through and address that.

 

[IAmRandom31]

This thread is suffering from the fact that the OP never defined what he meant by 'console'.

• Is it supposed to be defined by having fixed hardware specs? Wait, you can upgrade the storage in existing systems, and could upgrade the RAM in the N64, a system universally accepted as a console. That is a similar level of upgradability to iMacs, which are universally not considered to be consoles.
  
• Then is it supposed to be defined by having a single platform holder who creates the hardware and software? Again, Apple presents a counter example.
  
• It it defined by only running game software? But clearly current consoles run a variety of non-game apps.
  
• Should we go further and say that it can only run apps that are whitelisted by the platform holder? Again we run into Apple. Plus we have the historical counter examples, like the era of Other OS on PS3.
  
• Are consoles defined by using at least some non-commodity parts? That would require us to ignore the recent wave of 'microconsoles' using commodity ARM platforms.
  
• Maybe we want to define the console by its software architecture. But hold on once more. Many of the once-defining aspects of the console development model, like the lack of multi-tasking (all modern consoles) or the lack of emphasis on higher-level hardware-agnostic APIs (DirectX on XB1), are already gone from the console. And the console-like emphasis on low-level, architecture-aware APIs is slipping into the PC (Mantle, OpenCL/CUDA).
  
• Even the idea of having software target a single hardware spec is not a hard-and-fast rule in consoles. The aforementioned N64 had games that could run in higher resolution if you had the RAM expansion. The current 3DS / New 3DS situation in handheld consoles offers the same possibility.
  

So, how about being clear about what it is that is dying when you say game consoles are dying. While you are at it, explain why this represents a death, rather than an evolution.

come on man

don't think there is a single person in here who doesn't know what he means by console.

 

[fritolay]

I'm sorry, but I think your typical PC in 2016 has more to worry about tablets and cell phones replacing it than a console has to worry about the PC.

The typical PC and laptop is in trouble.

Mobile and hybrid mobile with keyboards are taking over. Wintel is doing everything they can to be a part of it.

 

[IAmRandom31]

I'm sorry, but I think your typical PC in 2016 has more to worry about tablets and cell phones replacing it than a console has to worry about the PC.

The typical PC and laptop is in trouble.

Mobile and hybrid mobile with keyboards are taking over. Wintel is doing everything they can to be a part of it.

Laptops are in trouble yes but not desktop PC's.

Desktop PC's are for gamers mostly, or people who want a powerful workstation for whatever heavy workload they have to do ... like 3D engineering or rendering or something. Tablets will replace laptops for the most part within the next 5 years. Hell that really has already begun in a big way. I almost never see a laptop anymore outside of work, but see people using Tablets EVERYWHERE.

But when it comes to gamers, we love the extra power of our desktop PC's and that isn't changing. I don't see a full size GPU being outstaged by a little mobile processor in the future. The next big thing for the desktop PC is to morph into a smaller package and enter the living room for a majority of people who own them. I for one welcome this change so I can get rid of my giant full tower case that is cleverly hidden behind my entertainment center in the living room lol

 

[rrvv]

If you just want to play, get a PC. Just because there are idiots out there that feel the need to play at 2k, 120 fps, SLI, 21:9 ratio, etc., doesn't mean PC gaming doesn't work for everyone else that just wants the normal intended experience. I play my games at 1080p60 with effects on high or whatever is optimal for my PC. It's the console experience that looks and performs just a bit better. But, I also have the option to push it further, run mods, and I'm not limited to a single machine. You know what really sucks? Not being able to play any PS3 games on my PS4, but PC games from 10 years ago play fine on my current PC, and PC games I buy now will play fine in another 10 years.

That assuming the game run perfectly on standard setting. but what if they dont?

in console. you 100% sure that you can play the game. while in PC. there is a doubt whether the game can run in ou PC or not. not everyone in this world know whether their computer can run the game or not.

 

[AcademicSaucer]

If Kingdom Hearts 3 and FFXV release on PC, I know im not buying a PS4

 

[Bjomesphat]

Your reasons completely ignore why people who prefer consoles pick consoles. Only one of those reasons is why those who prefer consoles go with consoles (the one about exclusives) and in general those who get consoles for exclusives do so in addition to their PC.

Speak to me when it will be possible to buy one already put together pc that will have games that you can just see says will play on that specific pc and that is all you need to know to know the game will run at a consistant quality (reviews and box art can tell you what you can expect on how it runs on your computer). Oh and also, you know it will be quite a few years before you have to worry about upgrading anything.

Then you can claim there will be no market for a console cause PC has taken its place.

So buy a pre-built machine and do just that.

 

[LakeEarth]

well, ok good read OP, but you left behind a mayor factor.

Hell ya, he did.

 

[John Bender]

Meh.


There will be PS5/XboneXXX, and they will be great.

Exactamundo!

 

[jimi_dini]

The PS4 and Xbox One are tracking ahead of their predecessors by a significant margin; selling far more rapidly at ~12 million units ahead of the consoles that preceded them.

Consoles are alive and well and are not going anywhere anytime soon. Again the very idea is a myth.

But what happens when you also count the crazy amounts of Wii consoles, that were sold during that timeframe?
PS3 for example sold like shit the first few years. There is no denying that.

Count Wii, PS3 and 360 together. And then count all Wii U, PS4 and Bone sales as well.

I'm interested in the result.

 

[fritolay]

Laptops are in trouble yes but not desktop PC's.

Desktop PC's are for gamers mostly, or people who want a powerful workstation for whatever heavy workload they have to do ... like 3D engineering or rendering or something. Tablets will replace laptops for the most part within the next 5 years. Hell that really has already begun in a big way. I almost never see a laptop anymore outside of work, but see people using Tablets EVERYWHERE.

But when it comes to gamers, we love the extra power of our desktop PC's and that isn't changing. I don't see a full size GPU being outstaged by a little mobile processor in the future. The next big thing for the desktop PC is to morph into a smaller package and enter the living room for a majority of people who own them. I for one welcome this change so I can get rid of my giant full tower case that is cleverly hidden behind my entertainment center in the living room lol

High powered GPU for gaming may become even more of a niche market. There will always be those who want the latest and most powerful, like the TV folks that need 4K now.

Those who need realtime graphics sure. But heavy rendering is done on server farms anyway not one desktop.

 

[Bjomesphat]

That assuming the game run perfectly on standard setting. but what if they dont?

in console. you 100% sure that you can play the game. while in PC. there is a doubt whether the game can run in ou PC or not. not everyone in this world know whether their computer can run the game or not.

Does your PC meet the minimum specs as outlined by the dev? If yes, then you can play it. If not, you're taking a gamble, but at least you have the option. And looking at specs is no different than making sure you buy the PS4 version over the Xbox One version.

 

[Nerix]

Jeff_Rigby is back, haven´t read anything from him since quite a while.

Interesting thoughts, but I don´t think consoles will go away anytime soon. Especially evolving countries (South America, Southeast Asia...) offer a very large market but have no comprehensive access to broadband internet --> perfect for consoles.