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[Xando]

You can see the same thing all over europe.

Almost everywhere the leftist party is losing according to polls.

And everywhere you hear the same bullshit of "oh we have to try and work with conservatives". Politeness is all good and fine but if they don't start being a opposition soon they'll be irrelevant soon.

 

[cartoon_soldier]

So what happens when a candidate doesn't get the needed votes?

And aren't they able to block the second candidate as well?
Or does he get the job without vote?

You couldn't just say "no" till they nominate a candidate the Democrats are satisfied with?

Because filibuster is killed for cabinet nominees, only way to block candidates is to have GOP support.

 

[Chichikov]

You can see the same thing all over europe.

Almost everywhere the leftist party is losing according to polls.

And everywhere you hear the same bullshit of "oh we have to try and work with conservatives". Politeness is all good and fine but if they don't start being a opposition soon they'll be irrelevant soon.

This is not what is happening right now.
Democrats have took some pretty public stance against most of the things that Republicans are trying to do, the only thing I heard anyone on the Democratic side saying they're willing to work with Republicans is maybe an infrastructure bill, and even that's not close to being a consensus.

Is it possible that Democrats will fold? Of course, they have done it in the past, but I don't think that you can draw that conclusion from the fact that many of them voted for Nikki Haley. I mean shit, you think Elizabeth Warren is planning on appeasing the GOP and Trump?

 

[Eidan]

Politico seems to have found indications that appeasement will not be the tactic going forward:

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/01/democrats-trump-strategy-234206

That article really highlights the debate playing out in this thread. Those who believe the Dems should gum up all the works and adopt the Republican strategy of complete obstruction, and those who believe obstruction should be more concentrated and and strategic. Keeping in mind that there are 10 Dem senators up for reelection in 2018 in states that Trump won, I understand the desire for caution. But ultimately I think they need to do the things that will keep their base active and engaged.

 

[UberTag]

You can see the same thing all over europe.

Almost everywhere the leftist party is losing according to polls.

And everywhere you hear the same bullshit of "oh we have to try and work with conservatives". Politeness is all good and fine but if they don't start being a opposition soon they'll be irrelevant soon.

This seems like a bit of a generalization.

 

[Timedog]

Okay, so the Politico article states that they don't want to be seen as obstructionist. Isn't a better strategy to obstruct and be outraged to stir up their base? You know, like the republicans did when thet ended up winning everything. Fire the fucking base up against this dumpster fire. You don't do that by playing little political PR games that no one cares about and thinking you're so smart. Fucking do what is right.

 

[TheXfactor]

united states of america is so divided right now

 

[Unknown Soldier]

Okay, so the Politico article states that they don't want to be seen as obstructionist. Isn't a better strategy to obstruct and be outraged to stir up their base? You know, like the republicans did when thet ended up winning everything. Fire the fucking base up against this dumpster fire. You don't do that by playing little political PR games that no one cares about and thinking you're so smart. Fucking do what is right.

The Democrats haven't known what a spine is for decades now. It seems inconceivable that they would suddenly grow one now.

 

[Morat]

The reason to vote against these people is that later on, when they well and truly shit the bed the Republicans will say "oh well the Democrats voted for them too, we all just made a mistake" That is the reason that the Dems should vote against these scum, above and beyond any moral position.

 

[teruterubozu]

Just mention Hillary or Bernie and the Dems immediately fall apart. There's not a whole lot of spine right now.

 

[A Serious Man]

I debated over this for a long time but I think breaking, or attempting to break, the atmosphere of hyper-partisanship will be better for the country in the long run than blinding standing in front of every little thing the GOP tries to do. If we don't, do you really expect the GOP to be the bigger man once they lose power again? Finding a middle ground, reaching compromise and having a civil discussion are all things necessary for our democracy to continue to function. If we don't even try to achieve these things, we're essentially doomed.

 

[Rentahamster]

And aren't they able to block the second candidate as well?

You couldn't just say "no" till they nominate a candidate the Democrats are satisfied with?

*cough*

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1337225

 

[boneyjangles]

I love how a republican house/senate/presidency is all the democrats fault.

How about assigning some blame to the right wing media, republican party and it's brazen dishonesty, trumps fibs, the electoral college system, the people who voted for trump, the people who don't like trump but didn't bother voting at all.

It will be fixed as it has been for decades. GOP will tank the economy and Dem;s will win again. It might be 4 years, it might be 8. Dem's will diligently go back to clearing up the mess that's left, stabilise things, revert more sound policy, and there will be a period of 4-8 years of sustained improvements, until people forget again.

 

[Eidan]

I debated over this for a long time but I think breaking, or attempting to break, the atmosphere of hyper-partisanship will be better for the country in the long run than blinding standing in front of every little thing the GOP tries to do. If we don't, do you really expect the GOP to be the bigger man once they lose power again? Finding a middle ground, reaching compromise and having a civil discussion are all things necessary for our democracy to continue to function. If we don't even try to achieve these things, we're essentially doomed.

You think Republicans will try to stop being obstructionists out of power if Democrats yield during Trump's presidency?

And people wonder why Democrats keep trying to kick the football. There are plenty of moderate Dem voters who believe "the truth is in the middle" and will always want Democrats to compromise, no matter how much Republicans make them pay for it. I personally think it's idiotic, but they're there.

 

[royalan]

I debated over this for a long time but I think breaking, or attempting to break, the atmosphere of hyper-partisanship will be better for the country in the long run than blinding standing in front of every little thing the GOP tries to do. If we don't, do you really expect the GOP to be the bigger man once they lose power again? Finding a middle ground, reaching compromise and having a civil discussion are all things necessary for our democracy to continue to function. If we don't even try to achieve these things, we're essentially doomed.

What about the Republicans of the last 8 years have signaled that they're going to compromise at any point, or even base their actions around what Democrats do?

Democrats won't win by playing nice with Republicans. We never have. The goal of Democrats needs to be getting back into power so that we can enshrine into law all the things that, until now, were just respected norms.

And the way you do that is by harnessing the power of your base that is literally taking to the streets by the millions. Not by playing some super cryptic strategy that makes no goddamn sense.

 

[FStubbs]

That article really highlights the debate playing out in this thread. Those who believe the Dems should gum up all the works and adopt the Republican strategy of complete obstruction, and those who believe obstruction should be more concentrated and and strategic. Keeping in mind that there are 10 Dem senators up for reelection in 2018 in states that Trump won, I understand the desire for caution. But ultimately I think they need to do the things that will keep their base active and engaged.

Consider those Democrats a lost cause and go for the jugular. Stop playing nice.

 

[capitalCORN]

I love how a republican house/senate/presidency is all the democrats fault.

How about assigning some blame to the right wing media, republican party and it's brazen dishonesty, trumps fibs, the electoral college system, the people who voted for trump, the people who don't like trump but didn't bother voting at all.

You don't understand! Our mission of salvation failed!

 

[Elaugaufein]

I debated over this for a long time but I think breaking, or attempting to break, the atmosphere of hyper-partisanship will be better for the country in the long run than blinding standing in front of every little thing the GOP tries to do. If we don't, do you really expect the GOP to be the bigger man once they lose power again? Finding a middle ground, reaching compromise and having a civil discussion are all things necessary for our democracy to continue to function. If we don't even try to achieve these things, we're essentially doomed.

The thing is you have to punish the other side for doing that or you not doing it isn't going to get them to not do it. That's the foundation of tit for tat with forgiveness, you assume the best, punish bad behaviour and reward turning away from it.

I love how a republican house/senate/presidency is all the democrats fault.

How about assigning some blame to the right wing media, republican party and it's brazen dishonesty, trumps fibs, the electoral college system, the people who voted for trump, the people who don't like trump but didn't bother voting at all.

It will be fixed as it has been the last while. GOP will tank the economy and Dem;s will win again. It might be 4 years, it might be 8. Dem's will diligently go back to clearing up the mess that's left, stabilise things, revert more sound policy, and there will be a period of 4-8 years of sustained improvements, until people forget again.

You know for a group so aware of institutional power some people seem really reluctant to acknowledge the enormous institutional power of the Democratic Party and that they can be in some way culpable for failing to reach those people.

 

[Eidan]

Consider those Democrats a lost cause and go for the jugular. Stop playing nice.

You'd be willing to sacrifice 10 senate seats?

 

[RMI]

This is how you torpedo your own movement.

 

[Sinfamy]

You'd be willing to sacrifice 10 senate seats?

People prefer real Republican over Republican Lite.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

You'd be willing to sacrifice 10 senate seats?

The Democrats have already sacrificed everything else the past few decades with their policy of spinelessness. The Republicans control literally everything at this point. At what point do people realize there is nothing else left to lose and start fighting tooth and nail for survival?

 

[Dr. Benton Quest]

Every single one of Trump's Cabinet nominees will be confirmed.

There will be time for fights in the coming weeks when Trump picks a lunatic for the Supreme Court and Ryan and McConnell try to repeal everything.

We will lose those fights as well.

They would cut off their own noses if it meant Pryor was on the court.

 

[slit]

I debated over this for a long time but I think breaking, or attempting to break, the atmosphere of hyper-partisanship will be better for the country in the long run than blinding standing in front of every little thing the GOP tries to do. If we don't, do you really expect the GOP to be the bigger man once they lose power again? Finding a middle ground, reaching compromise and having a civil discussion are all things necessary for our democracy to continue to function. If we don't even try to achieve these things, we're essentially doomed.

Then we're doomed because that's not going to happen anyway. The Dems can try and reach out all they want, it's not going to change the GOP's stance on anything. They are not going to compromise when and if they lose power again. Why make it easier for them to fuck everyone over?

 

[Eidan]

The Democrats have already sacrificed everything else the past few decades with their policy of spinelessness. The Republicans control literally everything at this point. At what point do people realize there is nothing else left to lose and start fighting tooth and nail for survival?

Well, we can lose the filibuster, which is pretty much the only check left against Trump. And the idea that anyone on the left would be fine seeing the Democrats lose TEN goddamn senate seats is insane and speaks to a deeper problem of liberals being far too preoccupied with the presidency while ignoring all other levels of government; federal, state, and local.

 

[Branduil]

Like I said, completely tone deaf. I want to see democrats who are willing to fight for good as hard as republicans fight for evil. I want to see them call out Nazis for being fucking Nazis.

 

[teruterubozu]

Well, we can lose the filibuster, which is pretty much the only check left against Trump. And the idea that anyone on the left would be fine seeing the Democrats lost TEN goddamn senate seats is insane and speaks to a deeper problem of liberals being far too preoccupied with the presidency while ignoring all other levels of government, federal, state, and local.

Well that's a given.

 

[Astral Dog]

Don't worry, if enough people change their profile pictures and avatars with "resistance" something good is bound to happen.

We will lead the Resistance from the conformity of our homes

 

[Kusagari]

You'd be willing to sacrifice 10 senate seats?

Tester is a fucking Democrat from Montana and he voted against Pompeo but our supposed leader can't even fucking do it.

The party is a joke.

 

[Dalibor68]

What are some things that democrats could realistically block until 2018?

 

[Unknown Soldier]

Well, we can lose the filibuster, which is pretty much the only check left against Trump. And the idea that anyone on the left would be fine seeing the Democrats lost TEN goddamn senate seats is insane and speaks to a deeper problem of liberals being far too preoccupied with the presidency while ignoring all other levels of government, federal, state, and local.

And whose fault is it that all levels of government are now dominated by Republicans? I'll give you a hint: it's not the Republicans' fault. They are doing what they've always been doing, trying to win. So I guess that leaves only one party at fault here. So either we fix the Democrats, or we content ourselves with being ruled by the Republicans forever.

The first step to fixing the Democrats is admitting that what they've been doing the past few decades has been grossly ineffective and that it needs to change. It needs to change now, not 2 years from now. They are going to be hammered in the midterms if they just go along with everything Trump does regardless, so maybe resisting is a better option because it at least builds towards something worthwhile down the road.

 

[Dr. Benton Quest]

I debated over this for a long time but I think breaking, or attempting to break, the atmosphere of hyper-partisanship will be better for the country in the long run than blinding standing in front of every little thing the GOP tries to do. If we don't, do you really expect the GOP to be the bigger man once they lose power again? Finding a middle ground, reaching compromise and having a civil discussion are all things necessary for our democracy to continue to function. If we don't even try to achieve these things, we're essentially doomed.

Incredibly naive.

Win or lose the right will always do whatever necessary to protect bourgeois white dudes. They are willing to stop people from voting and redrawing districts to steal the government. They have been incredibly successful at stifling democracy and will continue to do so in the future.

We have to stomp them out.

 

[mercenar1e]

Bernie and Cenk might have the right idea. You should probably just burn all of D.C. down and start over from scratch.

that's what is needed.. the damage that will be done by the Republicans over the next 4 years can only be undone quickly by someone that isn't afraid to piss off wall street. i dont see that happening with the current democrat representatives.

 

[capitalCORN]

that's what is needed.. the damage that will be done by the Republicans over the next 4 years can only be undone quickly by someone that isn't afraid to piss off wall street. i dont see that happening with the current democrat representatives.

And then the meek will inherit the salted earth?

 

[Blader]

Symbolic no votes on anything and everything are wastes of the very limited political capital that a minority party has. Just like you can't assemble protests against Trump every day, you need to pick and choose your battles for maximum PR/media impact.

John Kelly and Nikki Haley are going to be the least bad choices put up for those jobs. Save your fire for the truly dangerous picks like DeVos, Price, Munichin, etc. Which, by most accounts, the Dems seem to be doing.

i guess the point is that they don't play hard ball like the GOP does. If this was the other way around the GOP would likely fight to the death no matter how pointless, they never concede, even at the expense of the country.

We've seen the other way around and the GOP voted to confirm all of Obama's cabinet picks (save for Daschle, who withdrew).

 

[Eidan]

And whose fault is it that all levels of government are now dominated by Republicans? I'll give you a hint: it's not the Republicans' fault. They are doing what they've always been doing, trying to win. So I guess that leaves only one party at fault here. So either we fix the Democrats, or we content ourselves with being ruled by the Republicans forever.

The first step to fixing the Democrats is admitting that what they've been doing the past few decades has been grossly ineffective and that it needs to change. It needs to change now, not 2 years from now. They are going to be hammered in the midterms if they just go along with everything Trump does regardless, so maybe resisting is a better option because it at least builds towards something worthwhile down the road.

The reason why Republicans control everything is for the reason I outlined, and several people in this thread have displayed: a preoccupation with the presidency. Dem voters only show up during presidential elections and ignore midterms.

How do Democrats get voters in the midterms? Honestly the easiest option would be to simply cater more to the inclinations of voters who do show up in midterms: old white conservatives.

 

[Kill3r7]

that's what is needed.. the damage that will be done by the Republicans over the next 4 years can only be undone quickly by someone that isn't afraid to piss off wall street. i dont see that happening with the current democrat representatives.

Where do you think the money comes from? Even at the state and local level these campaigns are by and large funded by banks. That is not going to change anytime soon.

 

[royalan]

Symbolic no votes on anything and everything are wastes of the very limited political capital that a minority party has. Just like you can't assemble protests against Trump every day, you need to pick and choose your battles for maximum PR/media impact.

John Kelly and Nikki Haley are going to be the least bad choices put up for those jobs. Save your fire for the truly dangerous picks like DeVos, Price, Munichin, etc. Which, by most accounts, the Dems seem to be doing.


We've seen the other way around and the GOP voted to confirm all of Obama's cabinet picks (save for Daschle, who withdrew).

Democrats have no political capital right now.

 

[Mr. RHC]

Follow the money.

 

[Dr. Benton Quest]

Symbolic no votes on anything and everything are wastes of the very limited political capital that a minority party has. Just like you can't assemble protests against Trump every day, you need to pick and choose your battles for maximum PR/media impact.

John Kelly and Nikki Haley are going to be the least bad choices put up for those jobs. Save your fire for the truly dangerous picks like DeVos, Price, Munichin, etc. Which, by most accounts, the Dems seem to be doing.


We've seen the other way around and the GOP voted to confirm all of Obama's cabinet picks (save for Daschle, who withdrew).

Did Obama's picks have long histories of wanting to dismantle the agencies they now lead?

This is a Kleptocracy. They will plunder this nation and we will all suffer for it. The only time a hand should cross the isle is to land a punch.

 

[mercenar1e]

Where do you think the money comes from? Even at the state and local level these campaigns are by and large funded by banks. That is not going to change anytime soon.

the most damaging and lasting actions passed by Trumps administration will remain, 15% corporate tax, regulations set back, climate change being one of them.. are you ok with the Democrats refusing to set it back or take multiple presidential terms to do so? lets not forget Obama made the Bush tax cuts permanent. i cant imagine that they lift a finger to help in this area.

if the Democrats manage to take back all 3 branches of government they should have little to no Republicans appointed.

 

[Horns]

It's a forgone conclusion that most of these nominations will go through. Just wait for the legislative battles before saying they're spineless. This attacking of Democrats is the crap I expect from the justice democrats.

 

[Eidan]

Also, for those who are deeply displeased by the handling of Trump's cabinet nominees, I hope you plan on making phone calls. I'm not kidding.

 

[StrategyFan]

Follow the money.

the only leverage left:
http://time.com/4590994/popular-vote-tax-pledge/

 

[capitalCORN]

the most damaging and lasting actions passed by Trumps administration will remain, 15% corporate tax, regulations set back, climate change being one of them.. are you ok with the Democrats refusing to set it back or take multiple presidential terms to do so? lets not forget Obama made the Bush tax cuts permanent. i cant imagine that they lift a finger to help in this area.

if the Democrats manage to take back all 3 branches of government they should have little to no Republicans appointed.

Because corporations are big proponents of patriotism, and after all the purchasing power of the the American people is drained, will sit with with the people through think and thin until egalitarianism is achieved. After all, corporations are famous for a far sight for profits.

 

[A Serious Man]

You think Republicans will try to stop being obstructionists out of power if Democrats yield during Trump's presidency?

And people wonder why Democrats keep trying to kick the football. There are plenty of moderate Dem voters who believe "the truth is in the middle" and will always want Democrats to compromise, no matter how much Republicans make them pay for it. I personally think it's idiotic, but they're there.

I doubt it but stooping to their level now guarantees it. I also believe that the GOP is far better at messaging and would make the Democrats pay a much bigger price for obstructionism than the GOP ever did. We should pick our battles, use what little capital we have to hit them where they stand to lose the most ground and begin reaching out. It's not about appeasing the GOP, it's about appealing to their voters. Trying to stir up the base seems redundant right now because we're about as riled up and alarmed as we can possibly get.

 

[dave is ok]

The democrats are the ones who got rid of the filibuster for presidential nominees. They tied their own hands

 

[Lime]

Also, for those who are deeply displeased by the handling of Trump's cabinet nominees, I hope you plan on making phone calls. I'm not kidding.

Yep: https://5calls.org/

 

[Black Republican]

when is sessions up for a vote?

 

[Kill3r7]

the most damaging and lasting actions passed by Trumps administration will remain, 15% corporate tax, regulations set back, climate change being one of them.. are you ok with the Democrats refusing to set it back or take multiple presidential terms to do so? lets not forget Obama made the Bush tax cuts permanent. i cant imagine that they lift a finger to help in this area.

if the Democrats manage to take back all 3 branches of government they should have little to no Republicans appointed.

I am not fine with anything they do, but I am also a realist. Things very well might look worse for Democrats after the 2018 midterms. Literally we are much more likely to lose senate seats than to gain them. Keep in mind that the behavior we find abhorrent is beloved and expected by many red states.

The democrata are the ones who got rid of the filibuster for presidential nominees. They tied their own hands

Ditto.