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[JB1981]

The end of this movie bothers me.

The movie is about the divide that exists between science and faith, belief and skepticism, and how humanity can reconcile these opposing ideas when contemplating the meaning of life and our place in the universe.

At the end of the movie, after Ellie has had an encounter with extra terrestrials, her story is questioned back on Earth because she returns with no evidence of her journey. Her instruments record nothing. Her pod drops straight through the rings and lands in the net in merely 8 seconds. From the POV of humanity, she could not have possibly experienced what she says she did.

Later she is deposed in front of Congress and the evidence against her story continues to pile up. She is also accused of having a self-reinforcing delusion. What the director (Zemeckis) has basically done, in my mind, is create a scenario in which the hero (who is an atheist), basically has a religious experience and is confronted with being unable to "prove" her story. She is basically being forced to sympathize with the view of people of faith. She can't possibly prove what happened, but she felt it was real. It affected her in a profound way.

Because of this ending I feel like the movie comes down on the side of people of faith. It tries to get the scientic community to empathize with people on the other side of the divide. This doesn't seem consistent with what Carl Sagan believed. Was his career about courting people of faith? Was it about bridging this ideological divide? Seems to me that this movie is not about contact with another species but about human beings making contact with one another through empathy and understanding. This disappointed me because everything that came before this felt very grounded in science. You guys feeling me?

 

[Arrogant Bastard]

The end of this movie bothers me.

The movie is about the divide that exists between science and faith, belief and skepticism, and how humanity can reconcile these opposing ideas when contemplating the meaning of life and our place in the universe.

At the end of the movie, after Ellie has had an encounter with extra terrestrials, her story is questioned back on Earth because she returns with no evidence of her journey. Her instruments record nothing. Her pod drops straight through the rings and lands in the net in merely 8 seconds. From the POV of humanity, she could not have possibly experienced what she says she did.

Later she is deposed in front of Congress and the evidence against her story continues to pile up. She is also accused of having a self-reinforcing delusion. What the director (Zemeckis) has basically done, in my mind, is create a scenario in which the hero (who is an atheist), basically has a religious experience and is confronted with being unable to "prove" her story. She is basically being forced to sympathize with the view of people of faith. She can't possibly prove what happened, but she felt it was real. It affected her in a profound way.

Because of this ending I feel like the movie comes down on the side of people of faith. It tries to get the scientic community to empathize with people on the other side of the divide. This doesn't seem consistent with what Carl Sagan believed. Was his career about courting people of faith? Was it about bridging this ideological divide? Seems to me that this movie is not about contact with another species but about human beings making contact with one another through empathy and understanding. This disappointed me because everything that came before this felt very grounded in science. You guys feeling me?

Except you are missing the fact that it did record hours of static. The point from my perspective has always been about the fact that there are plenty of things that we can not fully explain in a purely scientific way. That doesn't mean we shouldn't continue to explore and probe at our ignorance, I think Sagan would support that view.

 

[Arthr2ShdsJcksn]

To me, it's that science didn't know what to look for. The evidence of her departure was there, but was ignored.

 

[Skellig Gra]

No I think you have it completely wrong. The whole movie is trying to get both sides to coexist. That's why she is put in the position of a person of faith at the end...to gain perspective of the other side.

 

[Jason's Ultimatum]

But in the end, those people took notice on how the 8 seconds of static became hours (?). What happens next I assume is left to the imagination of the viewers.

 

[AstroLad]

Haven't watched the movie in over a decade, but maybe it could also be interpreted as being careful about our own self-limiting narrow-mindedness when it comes to scientific exploration itself, independent of any faith?

Kind of like how the other cops at Timecop Station are all skeptical of Van Damme every time he comes back, like "dude what do you mean, the world is perfect now? What's this alternate reality you're describing?" You work at Timecop Station!

 

[Borgnine]

You're looking at it in completely black and white terms, which is the exact opposite of what the movie is trying to convey. It can be 2 things at the same time.

 

[captive]

Except you are missing the fact that it did record hours of static. The point from my perspective has always been about the fact that there are plenty of things that we can not fully explain in a purely scientific way. That doesn't mean we shouldn't continue to explore and probe at our ignorance, I think Sagan would support that view.

I agree 100%.

 

[JB1981]

Except you are missing the fact that it did record hours of static. The point from my perspective has always been about the fact that there are plenty of things that we can not fully explain in a purely scientific way. That doesn't mean we shouldn't continue to explore and probe at our ignorance, I think Sagan would support that view.

Yes, you are correct. The movie did throw that in there at the last minute, but it was buried in confidential files. Ellie was shamed publicly after going on one of the most heroic missions in human history. I hate how her character was treated by the end. I mean, I guess she got a healthy grant but does she ever told later about the 18 hours? I doubt it since she was treated so poorly

 

[Fireblend]

The book has the better ending, and I'll fight anyone who disagrees. OP, grab a copy and read the last chapter.

 

[True Savior]

OP i agree with you so much. I re-watched the film a few weeks ago after so many years and the ending in the court scene is so goddamning troubling. First it makes no sense because they have the static hours recorded , so its a bunch of shenanigans. Second the shenanigans are there to confront the main character with the themes of the movie...where there is no confrontation. She has gone through that experience.

The scene feels so inorganic. She could have confronted herself , empathizing with others who have gone through something they can't share. But that doesn't happen. It's all spewed into some ridiculous false-premise confrontation.

I hated it . Feels such a cop out. Faith is shoved through our throats without a lick of sense.

 

[commish]

The book has the better ending, and I'll fight anyone who disagrees. OP, grab a copy and read the last chapter.

The book as a whole is better, but I still love the movie.

 

[Yamauchi]

Yes, you are correct. The movie did throw that in there at the last minute, but it was buried in confidential files. Ellie was shamed publicly after going on one of the most heroic missions in human history. I hate how her character was treated by the end. I mean, I guess she got a healthy grant but does she ever told later about the 18 hours? I doubt it since she was treated so poorly

In certain ways, though, this is an accurate depiction of some experts in the scientific community who, when left unchecked, can become prone to dogmatic thinking. I think Dr Drumlin was a good example of this.

 

[JB1981]

OP i agree with you so much. I re-watched the film a few weeks ago after so many years and the ending in the court scene is so goddamning troubling. First it makes no sense because they have the static hours recorded , so its a bunch of shenanigans. Second the shenanigans are there to confront the main character with the themes of the movie...where there is no confrontation. She has gone through that experience.

The scene feels so inorganic. She could have confronted herself , empathizing with others who have gone through something they can't share. But that doesn't happen. It's all spewed into some ridiculous false-premise confrontation.

I hated it . Feels such a cop out. Faith is shoved through our throats without a lick of sense.

I agree! There is even that dramatic push-in on the one actor's face who says to her "Are you really saying we have to take your story ON FAITH?!", which was so on-the-nose I couldn't take it.

 

[True Savior]

The book has the better ending, and I'll fight anyone who disagrees. OP, grab a copy and read the last chapter.

Summary please.

 

[dork]

I thought that was kinda the point. To make people realize you're asking others to accept faith on belief.

I loved when they revealed that it did record 8 hours or whatever. So cool

 

[Arrogant Bastard]

I agree! There is even that dramatic push-in on the one actor's face who says to her "Are you really saying we have to take your story ON FAITH?!", which was so on-the-nose I couldn't take it.

I personally think you are reading too much into it. They didn't mean it in a religious way, it was a way of saying you do not have scientific evidence for your claim. You are asking us to simply take your personal experience and claim without any real proof.

 

[Kai Dracon]

The point of Ellie's public shaming at the end was to demonstrate how the government could be like Drumlin - dogmatic and afraid of unknown quantities it could not control. Which is why the proof of Ellie's story was confiscated and kept hidden.

More important was that many people were willing to believe her, even religious people, and that even though they did believe her Ellie still advised them to search for facts and be willing to say "I don't know". Rather than ask people to believe her based on blind faith or wishful thinking.

 

[True Savior]

I personally think you are reading too much into it. They didn't mean it in a religious way, it was a way of saying you do not have scientific evidence for your claim. You are asking us to simply take your personal experience and claim without any real proof.

But she had. The static recordings.

The scene feels like when you hide a candy from a kid so he says what you want him to say.

 

[TheXbox]

It was also pants on head stupid. "Hey guy in charge of this huge case, did you read the confidential report on the thing you're investigating? No? Cool."

And the trial itself was ridiculous. "You have no evidence! Obviously, the rich guy did it!" If that's the case, where's YOUR evidence? But there was none. Just back-and-forth conjecture while the actual evidence remained ignored.

 

[Arrogant Bastard]

But she had. The static recordings.

The scene feels like when you hide a candy from a kid so he says what you want him to say.

She did? I didn't think she had possession of the hours of recordings.

Again, the entire point of the film and that scene in particular is to bridge the faith/reason discussion. Even with hours of static she still wouldn't have any scientific evidence for her claim. We would be expected to take her story and experience on 'faith'. All it is about in the end is that the universe is full of wonderment and that we might not be able to fully explain everything right now (or ever).

 

[DrForester]

Still the best Sci Fi movie with Matthew Mcconaughey in the last 15 years.

 

[BlackGoku03]

I watched this movie at the Bitburg base in Germany by myself when I was 11 and haven't seen it since. I was expecting a lot more based off the previews and instead got a long movie that was very grounded. I was almost enjoying it because I was looking forward to what people said when she came back. It felt like they rushed the trial and the ending and it felt like the characters weren't smart enough to verify what Ellie said. They spent over a billion on the project but can't acknowledge hours of fuzzy footage that was recorded in 8 seconds? C'mon man.

 

[True Savior]

She did? I didn't think she had possession of the hours of recordings.

Again, the entire point of the film and that scene in particular is to bridge the faith/reason discussion. Even with hours of static she still wouldn't have any scientific evidence for her claim. We would be expected to take her story and experience on 'faith'. All it is about in the end is that the universe is full of wonderment and that we might not be able to fully explain everything right now (or ever).

She might not have in her possession , but her claims are based on scientific evidences. They are purposefully hiding information from her.

If i paint a green-sheet tomorrow and report that conclusion , and in the middle of the night a guy switches the sheet for a red one and then confronts me in the next day about my conclusions...unless i'm crazy , i would have to say yeah now its red. This is not a rational confrontation. It's a jackass meddling in my experience

 

[Arrogant Bastard]

She might not have in her possession , but her claims are based on scientific evidences. They are purposefully hiding information from her.

How would twenty hours of static be proof that the journey happened, that her experience was real, that it occurred in the manner she stated, etc. In the end, you are still expected to take her personal experience on faith...which was the entire point in the first place.

From the wiki:

At the end of the film, Arroway is put into a position that she had traditionally viewed with skepticism and contempt: that of believing something with complete certainty, despite being unable to prove it in the face of not only widespread incredulity and skepticism (which she admits that as a scientist she would normally share) but also evidence apparently to the contrary.

Zemeckis stated that he intended the message of the film to be that science and religion can coexist rather than being opposing camps,[25] as shown by the coupling of scientist Arroway with the religious Joss, as well as his acceptance that the "journey" indeed took place.

 

[Fireblend]

Summary please.

Wikipedia spoilers for the BOOK'S ENDING:

Spoiler

Upon returning, the passengers discover that what seemed like many hours took no time at all from Earth's perspective. They also find that all of their video footage has been erased, presumably by magnetic fields in the wormholes. After seeing that Hadden is apparently dead and that the transmission has somehow been stopped without a 25 year delay, government officials accuse the travellers of an international conspiracy. Ellie finds herself asking the world to take a leap of faith and believe what she and the others say happened to them. Palmer Joss becomes one of the few people willing to take this leap.

Ellie works on a program to compute the digits of π to record lengths in different bases. Ellie's mother dies before this project delivers its first result. A final letter from her informs Ellie that John Staughton, not Ted Arroway, is Ellie's biological father. When Ellie looks at what the computer has found, she sees a circle rasterized from 0s and 1s that appear after 1020 places in the base 11 representation of π. This gives her a way to convince the world of something greater – that intelligence is built into the universe itself.

 

[Jotaka]

- 5 people gone in the trip vs 1
- trip took 20 min. vs few seconds

With just 2 points you can imagine the how different the movie would be.

 

[Dan]

What was really stupid was that some of the bullshit theories that James Woods's character tosses out at the end are ones that Foster's character could previously discount, but suddenly she's flustered and comes off like a delusional fool.

I wish I could love Contact, but the stuff about faith and McConaughey's wishy washy deist somehow representing mainstream religion is so infinitely frustrating.

 

[Fireblend]

You guys should seriously read the book. It fixes most complaints I've read here.

 

[Croc]

yeah I felt the exact same way after watching it recently. It seemed really odd to me and not what I was expecting the message to be from the rest of the film. Especially when immediately after the whole court scene they reveal there was all that static picked up, so there actually was some sort of evidence to support her claim. But they were just withholding it. I really really loved the movie aside from that ending.

 

[True Savior]

How would twenty hours of static be proof that the journey happened, that her experience was real, that it occurred in the manner she stated, etc. In the end, you are still expected to take her personal experience on faith...which was the entire point in the first place.

From the wiki:

Scientifically experimentation is based on data. There is only one data put at test. The camera. It becomes static right before she goes through it and it records 8 hours of it instead of the 2 seconds they see. They are negating that she has gone somewhere.

The rest is like you try to prove you just crossed the street to eat a bagel. It can't be put to test if it's not verifiable. She didnt need to go talk with aliens to confront her skepticism. Any fund-raiser meeting she had was as much of an act of faith as the end of the movie.

 

[creationtheory]

Except you are missing the fact that it did record hours of static. The point from my perspective has always been about the fact that there are plenty of things that we can not fully explain in a purely scientific way. That doesn't mean we shouldn't continue to explore and probe at our ignorance, I think Sagan would support that view.

Yet. We can't explain them yet.

 

[Bodacious]

IIRC Mr. Garrison on South Park vomited when someone mentioned this movie, then said something like, "Waited through that whole movie for them to show the alien, and when they did it was her goddamned father." heh

 

[blackflag]

The end always troubled me but I still love the movie as a whole.

 

[wildfire]

I came away seeing it similarly but the important point you are dismissing too much is the hours of static being recorded.

From the perspective of Ellie she is being shown what it means to have spiritual experience but the larger point to me was how perception is managed by access to information.

 

[bananafactory]

I need to watch this movie again.

 

[Razorback]

I also really dislike the ending. One of the best sci-fi movies out there almost completly ruined by a lame and forced lesson.

Science and religion cannot coexist. They are diametrically opposed concepts.

 

[SaintR]

I got around to reading the book this past year and it became one of my favorites. Really one of the best hard sci-fi books made.

And I agree with people here that the movie (and book to a much bigger extent) is about co-existing with people of faith and science and realizing that even if you think you know it all there's still more out there to discover.

Recommend the book OP, summaries and plot points won't do it justice.

 

[Arrogant Bastard]

Science and religion cannot coexist. They are diametrically opposed concepts.

Entirely disagree, they can most definitely coexist...and they do.

 

[creationtheory]

I also really dislike the ending. One of the best sci-fi movies out there almost completly ruined by a lame and forced lesson.

Science and religion cannot coexist. They are diametrically opposed concepts.

Exactly. It's "argument to moderation".

 

[ElFly]

Have we found the circle in pi yet?

I mean, it has to be there.

 

[Razorback]

Entirely disagree, they can most definitely coexist...and they do.

They coexist in the sense they they both exist, simultaneously. But one adds nothing to the other, they don't complement each other.

 

[Buddha Beam]

Wikipedia spoilers for the BOOK'S ENDING:

Spoiler

Upon returning, the passengers discover that what seemed like many hours took no time at all from Earth's perspective. They also find that all of their video footage has been erased, presumably by magnetic fields in the wormholes. After seeing that Hadden is apparently dead and that the transmission has somehow been stopped without a 25 year delay, government officials accuse the travellers of an international conspiracy. Ellie finds herself asking the world to take a leap of faith and believe what she and the others say happened to them. Palmer Joss becomes one of the few people willing to take this leap.

Ellie works on a program to compute the digits of π to record lengths in different bases. Ellie's mother dies before this project delivers its first result. A final letter from her informs Ellie that John Staughton, not Ted Arroway, is Ellie's biological father. When Ellie looks at what the computer has found, she sees a circle rasterized from 0s and 1s that appear after 1020 places in the base 11 representation of π. This gives her a way to convince the world of something greater – that intelligence is built into the universe itself.

Spoiler

When Ellie looks at what the computer has found, she sees a circle rasterized from 0s and 1s that appear after 1020 places in the base 11 representation of π. This gives her a way to convince the world of something greater – that intelligence is built into the universe itself

I never understood how this is significant and I've read the book twice. While we're talking about it, would any of the more science-oriented gaffers like to explain it to me like I'm 5? haha.

 

[Parch]

The static might not be definitive evidence but it's still evidence. Something had to happen during that time frame, and to conceal that evidence so that they could confront her with the "faith" card is completely disingenuous. But I'm not surprised they'd do that.

 

[JB1981]

They coexist in the sense they they both exist, simultaneously. But one adds nothing to the other, they don't complement each other.

Interesting that you say that because the movie says faith and science are both concerned with the search for truth.

 

[Arrogant Bastard]

They coexist in the sense they they both exist, simultaneously. But one adds nothing to the other, they don't complement each other.

And?

Religion and science are attempting to explain two separate things. I'm an atheist, but saying that religion and science cannot coexist is silly.

 

[Parch]

Interesting that you say that because the movie says faith and science are both concerned with the search for truth.

Then why did faith conceal the truth?

 

[creationtheory]

And?

Religion and science are attempting to explain two separate things. I'm an atheist, but saying that religion and science cannot coexist is silly.

What does religion explain then?

 

[JB1981]

Then why did faith conceal the truth?

A very good question.

 

[Razorback]

And?

Religion and science are attempting to explain two separate things. I'm an atheist, but saying that religion and science cannot coexist is silly.

I was using the word "coexist" to mean complement. Or to say that they are both equaly valid ways to search for truth.

They are not.