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[Bounceounce]

Just looked through some old threads on Breaking Bad thread I read and lol:

"Nice episode. Then she goes to the dinner table and acts normal like how Walt was earlier, beautiful. Ted's gonna get some Heisenburg treatment, I hope Walt lays the smackdown on that punk. And on that whore of a wife too."

"Wow. Even though he did something illegal, it was all for his family. Now this....."

"Oh. My. Fucking. God. So many reasons. For being a dumb bitch and pissing away her husbands money to pay the dude shes fucking, greedy, lack of self control. Shes overdramatic and a huge bitch the whole show, look at how she just constantly leaves her baby in the car seat or how she smoked while pregnant. Its been a while since i seen the show but; she was fucking a man while her husband was fighting cancer. I think that trumps all her other horrible traits.."

"The truth of the matter is never once have i met someone that thinks shes not a horrible shrew. Woman love to support each other blindly. Untill there friends and then they talk shit behind there "friends" back cause thats woman logic. If u dont see why skylars horrible i would assume ur horrible too. Lol u say emotionally distant, holy shit woman are insane. He had fucking cancer while working two jobs one of them very stressful while she sits home and cuts coupons and thats justification to cheat on her husband??. The world is unreal in 2017. Im sure you would tell me i don't like sansa and dany because there woman and not boring to read."

There's a specific Season 5 discussion thread on a site I read, that disgusted me far beyond anything else, just constant sexism (not that you need to be sexist to hate Skyler, but said site is as sexist as you can be in general, it's just what they do) and vitriol and wished for violence and misinterpretation and ugh, I'm not sure I can go through those episode discussions again.

 

[SpaceWolf]

I don't think stories have to exist for the purpose of going places.

Can you offer any counterexamples of successful stories you feel don't follow that pattern? Not challenging you, genuinely curious. I think all stories essentially have to lead somewhere, even at a minute level, to be successful.

 

[ASIS]

So not liking a female character makes you a sexist? This is the first time I ever hear something of this opinion.

 

[Skyzard]

I'm pretty sure they made Skyler incredibly annoying (and the worst) on purpose to show his struggle.

She got better later on, but GOD DAMN some of those episodes.

She had it rough but some of what she did and said was just such a betrayal, though I get what Walt was doing was a betrayal too but she was doing it out of spite.

 

[Bounceounce]

So not liking a female character makes you a sexist? This is the first time I ever hear something of this opinion.

No, I haven't touched the sexism angle once in this entire thread, I'm posting about a specific thing in my post above separate from whatever you're taking about.

 

[Version 3.0]

Skyler's a bossy know-it-all. That's easy to dislike whether she's right or not.

Even when she eventually goes along with selling meth, she insists that it be done her way.

And today I learned people hate Walt Jr. Wow. He's supposed to be grateful? He idolized his dad, minus a bit of teen identification anxiety, until he found out he was a world-class drug dealer.

 

[ASIS]

No, I haven't touched the sexism angle once in this entire thread, I'm posting about a specific thing in my post above separate from whatever you're taking about.

Which is why I haven't quoted you. I wasn't talking about you or anyone specifically. Just those who have this opinion.

 

[aBarreras]

i never understood the hate for skylar, that said.

every character is a piece of shit, every one, no contest.

i think the only one i can feel sympathy is Saul, and he still kinda shitty, but everybody, is a piece of shit, i know everybody has their reasons,but every single one is a piece of shit

 

[HotHamBoy]

I hated the family plotlines.

Better Call Saul is great in every way so I guess they improved!

i never understood the hate for skylar, that said.

every character is a piece of shit, every one, no contest.

i think the only one i can feel sympathy is Saul, and he still kinda shitty, but everybody, is a piece of shit, i know everybody has their reasons,but every single one is a piece of shit

Every character is a piece of shit but Skyler is an unlikeable piece of shit. And she's largely a victim!

 

[HiiiLife]

Skylar did a good job making me hate her. Just like the Joffrey actor did. I'll give them that.

 

[HotHamBoy]

Skylar did a good job making me hate her. Just like the Joffrey actor did. I'll give them that.

The thing is, I don't think we're supposed to hate her. Walt is truly a monster.

 

[Bounceounce]

Skylar did a good job making me hate her. Just like the Joffrey actor did. I'll give them that.

This will always seem like a cheap compliment that erases all other aspects of the character and acting to me.
I hate that people are pulling this line with (better call Saul spoiler)






Michael Mckean in BCS as well .

 

[Doctor Decimate]

The thing about Skyler is that she's basically written as this comically overbearing semi-caricature when the show starts out. The show as a whole changes gears after the first season and gives her and Hank in particular more dimension as well as not leaning quite as hard into quirky black comedy, but it's a strong first impression that takes a while to move beyond.

Like, she's over-the-top to the point where I seriously side-eye everyone who likes to say "I was with Skyler from the beginning!" because like...really? I was with her too after a season or two but this whole "I always hated Walt from minute one/team Skyler" thing has always seemed like a benefit-of-hindsight statement that grossly oversimplifies a lot of what the show attempts with its characters.

When I look at the writing of this show, the idea that we're supposed to feel that way for its entire run as opposed to having our ideas about these characters constantly challenged and rewritten seems completely ridiculous. I'm sure some people do feel that way just like I'm sure plenty of her hate is steeped in sexism but I'm also sure plenty of people like to go back and say they came to the "right" conclusion immediately to like assert the value of their moral compass or whatever.

 

[Plywood]

Never understood the hate for Skyler.

 

[Mix Master]

The family drama in Better Call Saul is exquisite.

I agree the Chuck vs Jimmy dynamic is beautiful.

 

[kewlmyc]

While I didn't like her at first, I felt seriously bad for Skylar starting around halfway through the series. What a shit card she was dealt by marrying Walt. Marie is alright, but if you wrote her out of most of the scenes she was in, nothing would change. Walt Jr is whatever, but he's never really the focus.

At least all of his family gets to shine in the climax of the series.

 

[LionPride]

The thing is, I don't think we're supposed to hate her. Walt is truly a monster.

You really shouldn't hate her after a while

 

[Greatest Ever]

I'm okay with them, especially as a measure to see Walt's suffering, but the first season is really a drag in general.

The family drama in Better Call Saul is exquisite.

Absolutely. Better Call Saul is the best.

 

[Staccat0]

I like it. Without that stuff a lot of it's character moments would feel unearned IMO. Breaking Bad was so special becuase it was the rare plot rocket that is fueled by small-scale human drama at it's core.

 

[BlisterBrown]

I completely disagree. I think scenes like the "pillow talk" scene are some of the best in the show, and really peg the family as real with real problems.

 

[Staccat0]

The thing about Skyler is that she's basically written as this comically overbearing semi-caricature when the show starts out. The show as a whole changes gears after the first season and gives her and Hank in particular more dimension as well as not leaning quite as hard into quirky black comedy, but it's a strong first impression that takes a while to move beyond.

Like, she's over-the-top to the point where I seriously side-eye everyone who likes to say "I was with Skyler from the beginning!" because like...really? I was with her too after a season or two but this whole "I always hated Walt from minute one/team Skyler" thing has always seemed like a benefit-of-hindsight statement that grossly oversimplifies a lot of what the show attempts with its characters.

When I look at the writing of this show, the idea that we're supposed to feel that way for its entire run as opposed to having our ideas about these characters constantly challenged and rewritten seems completely ridiculous. I'm sure some people do feel that way just like I'm sure plenty of her hate is steeped in sexism but I'm also sure plenty of people like to go back and say they came to the "right" conclusion immediately to like assert the value of their moral compass or whatever.

I'll concede you are probably right overall. Those early storylines do a lot to establish Walt as a person struggling for agency in his own life and Skylar is often the well-meaning foil to that. Still I think the "well meaning" part was always evident and at the end of the day she was a flawed human just like any other character.

I dunno if I LIKED her, but I am definitely not the type of person who comes to fiction to find people I like. I wouldn't hang out with any of them, and honestly Hank is probably the most noble character but also easily the least likeable so I think it was intended that way.

All this is to say either liking or hating Skylar feels kinda beneath this show.

 

[Gnome Scat]

Didn't phase me as a bad feature of the show.

 

[ZeoVGM]

Just looked through some old threads on Breaking Bad thread I read and lol:

"Nice episode. Then she goes to the dinner table and acts normal like how Walt was earlier, beautiful. Ted's gonna get some Heisenburg treatment, I hope Walt lays the smackdown on that punk. And on that whore of a wife too."

"Wow. Even though he did something illegal, it was all for his family. Now this....."

"Oh. My. Fucking. God. So many reasons. For being a dumb bitch and pissing away her husbands money to pay the dude shes fucking, greedy, lack of self control. Shes overdramatic and a huge bitch the whole show, look at how she just constantly leaves her baby in the car seat or how she smoked while pregnant. Its been a while since i seen the show but; she was fucking a man while her husband was fighting cancer. I think that trumps all her other horrible traits.."

"The truth of the matter is never once have i met someone that thinks shes not a horrible shrew. Woman love to support each other blindly. Untill there friends and then they talk shit behind there "friends" back cause thats woman logic. If u dont see why skylars horrible i would assume ur horrible too. Lol u say emotionally distant, holy shit woman are insane. He had fucking cancer while working two jobs one of them very stressful while she sits home and cuts coupons and thats justification to cheat on her husband??. The world is unreal in 2017. Im sure you would tell me i don't like sansa and dany because there woman and not boring to read."

There's a specific Season 5 discussion thread on a site I read, that disgusted me far beyond anything else, just constant sexism (not that you need to be sexist to hate Skyler, but said site is as sexist as you can be in general, it's just what they do) and vitriol and wished for violence and misinterpretation and ugh, I'm not sure I can go through those episode discussions again.

Thank you for posting this. It's more proof of what I was saying earlier. I was grossed out at times when reading through old threads during my marathon. :/

 

[Yung Dolphin]

Tell me more about how "Walter did nothing wrong."
And I hope to high heavens the opinion is more along the lines of "he's an entertaining anti-hero" rather than "Skyler was so stifling and boring this was all inevitable."

Walter didnt kill that kid tho

 

[Zyae]

People hate on Skyler because they are invested in Walt but she reacts pretty much how any housewife/mother/wife would in her situation. Shes certainly not perfect herself and does some super shitty things though.

 

[caliph95]

Walter didnt kill that kid tho

Except that kid could have easily died, he still poisoned the kid and let a girl died without trying just to manipulate Jesse

 

[Hissing Sid]

Made it to the middle of the last season, got sidetracked and just never bothered to watch the rest.

To be honest I can't exactly say I enjoyed much of it and have no idea why I stuck with the show for so long. Except for Hank, all of the characters are irritating, unlikable wankers.

I class having watched Breaking Bad as one of those things that seemed like a good idea at the time but.... well.... ya know....

 

[LOLCats]

i hated it. In fact i quit the show because of it. Anything Skylar i was like, "this fucking sucks so bad", i eventually had enough of it.

 

[Rien]

Just looked through some old threads on Breaking Bad thread I read and lol:

"Nice episode. Then she goes to the dinner table and acts normal like how Walt was earlier, beautiful. Ted's gonna get some Heisenburg treatment, I hope Walt lays the smackdown on that punk. And on that whore of a wife too."

"Wow. Even though he did something illegal, it was all for his family. Now this....."

"Oh. My. Fucking. God. So many reasons. For being a dumb bitch and pissing away her husbands money to pay the dude shes fucking, greedy, lack of self control. Shes overdramatic and a huge bitch the whole show, look at how she just constantly leaves her baby in the car seat or how she smoked while pregnant. Its been a while since i seen the show but; she was fucking a man while her husband was fighting cancer. I think that trumps all her other horrible traits.."

"The truth of the matter is never once have i met someone that thinks shes not a horrible shrew. Woman love to support each other blindly. Untill there friends and then they talk shit behind there "friends" back cause thats woman logic. If u dont see why skylars horrible i would assume ur horrible too. Lol u say emotionally distant, holy shit woman are insane. He had fucking cancer while working two jobs one of them very stressful while she sits home and cuts coupons and thats justification to cheat on her husband??. The world is unreal in 2017. Im sure you would tell me i don't like sansa and dany because there woman and not boring to read."

There's a specific Season 5 discussion thread on a site I read, that disgusted me far beyond anything else, just constant sexism (not that you need to be sexist to hate Skyler, but said site is as sexist as you can be in general, it's just what they do) and vitriol and wished for violence and misinterpretation and ugh, I'm not sure I can go through those episode discussions again.

These posts blow my mind tbh. People pretending like its real time or something. Its a Tv show ffs.

Edit:

Talking about the quotes in your post. Not your post in general

 

[____]

I'm 4 episodes into a re-watch with my flatmate (first time for him), and I've noticed a few (very general) things:

- Jesse's depression isn't as prevalent as I remember it

- Walt turns into a massive dickhead much earlier than I remember

- Skyler is more annoying than I remember

I'm just reaching the first few episodes in Season 2 (re-watching, I've seen all episodes when they were on air) and I agree with this. Walt was a dick pretty much from the beginning. He snatched the gun from Jesse to protect himself after Tuco was after them. He snatched the water from Jesse after they were kidnapped by Tuco. Other things about his responses (or lack thereof) to people. I didn't remember him being this much of an asshole this early on but it's funny to watch.

Skylar is also just as annoying (probably more) than I remember. Goddamit I hate her character so much. I couldn't quite place it before, and can't now, but I can't stand her on-screen time. Her answer to Walt's "what if it was me?" question solidified it.

The only person I hated more than Skylar is Marie, and HOLY SHIT I must not have been listening closely to Marie's dialogue on my first watch. Now that I am, she's probably 2x worse than I remember, and she was already my least favorite character. She deserves zero sympathy. At least with Skylar, I can see why she behaves the way she does for the most part, I just don't like how she was written and I'm not really a fan of the actor's performance of her, but man....Marie and her "story" are just pointless. Such a pain to watch.

Tuco is also a lot crazier than I remembered.

 

[PAULINK]

i hated it. In fact i quit the show because of it. Anything Skylar i was like, "this fucking sucks so bad", i eventually had enough of it.

skyler sucks, yes, but you gotta stick through it man, it get's so good.

 

[Lothar]

The thing is, I don't think we're supposed to hate her. Walt is truly a monster.

In the beginning, he isn't. By the time he becomes a monster, she also turns into a criminal and is trying to get him to murder Jesse.

I don't think we're supposed to like Skyler and I never liked her. In contrast, I think Carmella Soprano is the most likable character in the Sopranos. So it's not just that she's the wife of a badass criminal and is keeping him from having fun. Carmella has a likable personality. Skyler has a whiny mean annoying personality. I hate the way she treats her sister. Carmella doesn't take Tony's shit. Skyler takes it and then treats everyone else shitty because of it. She's full of self pity all the time and seems to believe that she's blameless. What's to like? We can feel sorry for her at times, but why like?

 

[Ogodei]

I don't think stories have to exist for the purpose of going places.

While meandering stories that go nowhere are true to life, they violate an elementary rule of storytelling, especially for plays/movies. Chekhov's Gun is a trope that's misused because people assume it's just about in-references and callbacks within the show, but Chekhov's point was "don't do stuff that isn't going to pay off later."

Marie's sidestory i can forgive because it was early and they were clearly still trying to sort out what the show should even be (Season 2 was when they decided that this was going to be a tragedy, Season 1 they were trying to emulate the more lighthearted feel of "Weeds.")

A good example of skirting the line is the sideplot with Ted, which is mostly just sideshow up until the critical moment where Skyler gives Ted the money he owes the IRS in order to make sure that an IRS investigation doesn't turn their gaze on the White family, and does so at the crucial time when Walt needs to cash out to hide himself and his family from Gus. Thus a seemingly pointless story becomes incidentally hugely important, leading Walt on to resolve that he had to kill Gus before Gus killed him.

 

[Nafai1123]

I like how Walt is one of the worst people every portrayed on a TV show and yet many viewers actual problem is with his family and not him.

 

[daviyoung]

I like how Walt is one of the worst people every portrayed on a TV show and yet many viewers actual problem is with his family and not him.

He's like Tyler Durden

 

[Bigfoot]

Yes Skylar sucked and deserves all the hate she gets. It's because of Skyler that I won't rewatch Breaking Bad. I don't get why she has so many vocal fans that feel the need to defend her and analysis everyone that hates her.

I'm just glad Walt won at the end! #teamwalt

Jessie sucked too in the second to last season. He got very whiny and emo.

 

[sixteen-bit]

I never understood the hate for Skyler.

she fucked ted, breh

 

[Version 3.0]

He's like Tyler Durden

Tyler's more crazy than evil. And come on, who doesn't want their credit card debt erased?

 

[CopperPuppy]

Just looked through some old threads on Breaking Bad thread I read and lol:

"Nice episode. Then she goes to the dinner table and acts normal like how Walt was earlier, beautiful. Ted's gonna get some Heisenburg treatment, I hope Walt lays the smackdown on that punk. And on that whore of a wife too."

"Wow. Even though he did something illegal, it was all for his family. Now this....."

"Oh. My. Fucking. God. So many reasons. For being a dumb bitch and pissing away her husbands money to pay the dude shes fucking, greedy, lack of self control. Shes overdramatic and a huge bitch the whole show, look at how she just constantly leaves her baby in the car seat or how she smoked while pregnant. Its been a while since i seen the show but; she was fucking a man while her husband was fighting cancer. I think that trumps all her other horrible traits.."

"The truth of the matter is never once have i met someone that thinks shes not a horrible shrew. Woman love to support each other blindly. Untill there friends and then they talk shit behind there "friends" back cause thats woman logic. If u dont see why skylars horrible i would assume ur horrible too. Lol u say emotionally distant, holy shit woman are insane. He had fucking cancer while working two jobs one of them very stressful while she sits home and cuts coupons and thats justification to cheat on her husband??. The world is unreal in 2017. Im sure you would tell me i don't like sansa and dany because there woman and not boring to read."

There's a specific Season 5 discussion thread on a site I read, that disgusted me far beyond anything else, just constant sexism (not that you need to be sexist to hate Skyler, but said site is as sexist as you can be in general, it's just what they do) and vitriol and wished for violence and misinterpretation and ugh, I'm not sure I can go through those episode discussions again.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

I get why people hated Skylar early on-- she's part of the horrible home situation that Walt endures.

Except as more is revealed, you start to see *why* she acts the way she does, and Walt is a big cause of it (and Marie is another). The Marie/Skylar relationship was pretty interesting, and the implied depth translates into the explicit depth on BCS (which everyone should watch).

Anyway, I disliked Skylar at first, but she was quickly eclipsed by Walt. I almost quit the show over Walt himself, until I decided you could watch it despite him being the bad guy. (Jane's death was the turning point and I took a break from binging after that.) Eventually, Skylar became the voice of reason I could identify with in place of Walt, despite her own faults.

Skylar and Hank's character arcs (and Jesse's) are all as compelling as Walt's. Walt's just has more crime stuff on top.

I actually thought Marie's plotlines were fine, although they certainly didn't tie into the broader plot like they could have.

Imagine how a show like Mad Men or the Sopranos would have handled it. Have Marie steal something incriminating of Walt's, lead to a tense episode where he tries to get it back, going from door to door, friction with Hank at their place, yadda yadda.

You didn't watch the same Mad Men as I did. Sub-plotlines that don't connect to the main narrative, and don't particularly resolve was a hallmark of the show. Huge screentime for things that ultimately are just character bits.

 

[uncelestial]

Just looked through some old threads on Breaking Bad thread I read and lol:

"Nice episode. Then she goes to the dinner table and acts normal like how Walt was earlier, beautiful. Ted's gonna get some Heisenburg treatment, I hope Walt lays the smackdown on that punk. And on that whore of a wife too."

"Wow. Even though he did something illegal, it was all for his family. Now this....."

"Oh. My. Fucking. God. So many reasons. For being a dumb bitch and pissing away her husbands money to pay the dude shes fucking, greedy, lack of self control. Shes overdramatic and a huge bitch the whole show, look at how she just constantly leaves her baby in the car seat or how she smoked while pregnant. Its been a while since i seen the show but; she was fucking a man while her husband was fighting cancer. I think that trumps all her other horrible traits.."

"The truth of the matter is never once have i met someone that thinks shes not a horrible shrew. Woman love to support each other blindly. Untill there friends and then they talk shit behind there "friends" back cause thats woman logic. If u dont see why skylars horrible i would assume ur horrible too. Lol u say emotionally distant, holy shit woman are insane. He had fucking cancer while working two jobs one of them very stressful while she sits home and cuts coupons and thats justification to cheat on her husband??. The world is unreal in 2017. Im sure you would tell me i don't like sansa and dany because there woman and not boring to read."

There's a specific Season 5 discussion thread on a site I read, that disgusted me far beyond anything else, just constant sexism (not that you need to be sexist to hate Skyler, but said site is as sexist as you can be in general, it's just what they do) and vitriol and wished for violence and misinterpretation and ugh, I'm not sure I can go through those episode discussions again.

Good lord what toxic, sexist nonsense. Were these GAF threads you were reading? We had people calling her a "whore of a wife??"

 

[Bobby Roberts]

Good lord what toxic, sexist nonsense. Were these GAF threads you were reading? We had people calling her a "whore of a wife??"

Hell, here's a 10-page thread from just over a year ago specifically focused on this sorta shit.

edit: Huh, you're in that thread.

 

[uncelestial]

Hell, here's a 10-page thread from just over a year ago specifically focused on this sorta shit.

edit: Huh, you're in that thread.

I am, my memory sucks I guess. I should've taken you up on this discussion, I'm sorry about that. Reading it again I think I had you way wrong. My apologies, Bobby, I was being quite a crank.

I think this is the best I ever articulated how complicated I find the #TeamWalt vs #TeamSkyler dynamic:

Yes, the threats and hate directed at Anna Gunn make me really angry. There are definitely people who are misogynist in their reactions to Skyler, I just wouldn't say that the key factor to look for is finding humanity in Walt. As I said, Walt's last actions on earth were to: 1) Ensure his family got what was left of his millions, 2) exonerate Skyler in a police-monitored phone call, 3) say a tearful goodbye to Skyler and his baby, and 4) receive a mortal wound while freeing Jesse from his captors. That's *after* his "transformation" into Heisenberg -- that's the end of his evolution into an evil person. Anti-heroes are supposed to be okay to root for a little bit because their humanity is shown, even though they do horrible things. It doesn't "erase" Walt's poor behavior to recognize this trope - on the contrary that behavior is what makes Walt so interesting.

Tony Soprano is another great anti-hero: you could fairly describe him as a sociopathic, lying, cheating murderer. But you see him cry when people he loves hate him, faint from panic attacks, recover from severe medical trauma, confess his deepest pains and fears in therapy, and learn how to loathe himself from a hating and vengeful mother. So, despite all the awful shit you see him do, as a result of seeing his humanity, you end up rooting for him. And you end up disliking the people who stand in his way.

You can find misogyny in Skyler reactions when they generalize their criticisms of her to apply to women generally, use gendered insults, go after the actress who played her, etc. But for as long as people are only talking about actions she took that they don't like, I just don't think you can make that call. It's an intentionally morally ambiguous show.

 

[Conor_Fool]

Meh. Skyler and Marie are the worst plotline of the show. Everything else with his family is not bad

 

[Bobby Roberts]

I am, my memory sucks I guess. I should've taken you up on this discussion, I'm sorry about that. Reading it again I think I had you way wrong. My apologies, Bobby, I was being quite a crank.

I think this is the best I ever articulated how complicated I find the #TeamWalt vs #TeamSkyler dynamic:

Not a problem at all, and the ensuing discussion you ended up having in the thread (primarily with Link, looks like) was a pretty good one!

 

[ZoddGutts]

Skyler's a bossy know-it-all. That's easy to dislike whether she's right or not.

Even when she eventually goes along with selling meth, she insists that it be done her way.

And today I learned people hate Walt Jr. Wow. He's supposed to be grateful? He idolized his dad, minus a bit of teen identification anxiety, until he found out he was a world-class drug dealer.

This, but apparently people get labeled a sexist for saying how unlikeable and annoying she was.

 

[Chittagong]

I have such a weird crush for Skyler

 

[HotHamBoy]

I have such a weird crush for Skyler

 

[NastyBook]

My girlfriend and I are re watching Breaking Bad, and god damn does Walt's family suck.

I mean I get that its the point, but I think we both found ourselves browsing Gaf whenever Skyler and Marie would start talking about some bullshit. I don't remember any of these people redeeming themselves at any point.

Hank is quite obviously excluded.

It's the reason why I stopped watching. There's drama, then there's torture.

 

[SmackDaddy]

Ah, it's been a while since I've seen the thick layer of sexism regarding Skylar's character pop up on the internet.

Pretty much this. Lady freaking out over husband doing extremely extremely illegal things makes her a crazy annoying bitch apparently