• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

The Fighting Game Noob Thread: From Scrub to Master

I

ImBarryScott

Member
I've been playing pretty badly lately (nearly went down to bronze again last week) so I'd been searching on tips for improving my game. Thanks to Patrick Miller I found this thread.

I've been doing a lot better in the past couple of days (I only really get about an hour a night to play). Last night I got matched against a super platinum and whilst I did get completely bodied I don't think I played too badly.

Looking for tips to improve my game:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZN2TMKyzXp8

Things I've noted myself from watching it back:

I missed a couple of easy crush counters.
I need to improve my reading of throws as I was getting crush countered trying to tech on wake up.
I hardly use my v-meter. I think I waste it by trying to wait to combo into it. I should probably just throw it out as soon as it's available.
I stupidly ate a few throws after dashing in. Not really sure what happened there. I'll have to watch it back with inputs on.

This was only the second Guile I've fought so I don't think I did too badly. And I think I probably could have taken a round off him, maybe.

Any advice is much appreciated.

Edit: Just gone back and watched with inputs. It looks like I just need to improve my execution. In one case I tried to throw on dash in but pressed throw too early. In another case I tried to cr.lp on dash in but get thrown. I guess my timing was off with that one too as cr.lp is 3 frames but I believe all throws in this game are 4 frames. Still, cr.lp has only two active frames so it's a bit risky to try and use it to beat throws...
 
F

Foofaraw

Member
I'm so bad at fighting games. I just went 1 for 10 matches. I need to figure out how to actually use Laura, or pick a more noob friendly character. Stuck at 0 points in ranked. Feels bad, man, feels bad.
 
K

katsubento

Member
Foofaraw said:
I'm so bad at fighting games. I just went 1 for 10 matches. I need to figure out how to actually use Laura, or pick a more noob friendly character. Stuck at 0 points in ranked. Feels bad, man, feels bad.
Click to expand...

Try Ryu to start out with. He's the basic character that the game is basically formed around. Learn basics and normals. He is easy to apply to other characters once you have the basics such as normals, throws, spacing etc.
 
F

Foofaraw

Member
katsubento said:
Try Ryu to start out with. He's the basic character that the game is basically formed around. Learn basics and normals. He is easy to apply to other characters once you have the basics such as normals, throws, spacing etc.
Click to expand...

Noob might be the wrong word. I've been playing SFIV since release. I understand not jumping in, blocking, the throw-block-attack relationship. I'm just crazy bad at it and bored of Ryu. I used to really like T-Hawk. I just need to play a lot more and learn one or two bread and butter combos, work on execution of literally everything, and play a lot more.
 
L

leroidys

Member
Foofaraw said:
Noob might be the wrong word. I've been playing SFIV since release. I understand not jumping in, blocking, the throw-block-attack relationship. I'm just crazy bad at it and bored of Ryu. I used to really like T-Hawk. I just need to play a lot more and learn one or two bread and butter combos, work on execution of literally everything, and play a lot more.
Click to expand...
Nash, Ken, Rashid, Chun, Cammy, Mika, Karin and Laura are all pretty easy to pick up if you're bored with Ryu IMO.
 
C

Card Boy

Banned
Can't for the life of me work out how charge characters properly work and I have being playing fighting games for almost 20 years (not saying I was any good).

I have watched vids and the concept of pre-charging a move while performing other moves confounds me. I can pull off charge moves on its own but I can't do them naturally so they flow.
 
ShinMaruku

ShinMaruku

Member
A few DOA matches I think that are instructive.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BJh3IHRntQc
Note that most damage is coming from points either attacking from an unsafe postion netting counter, hits or not attacking at a gap that can be closed. Another source of damage is the throw to counter holds which are baited which Phase 4 can convert on really well. Then there are hits where I come from range and was doing damage.

The Rachel then recovered and turned the momentum on me when I got too greedy at round 3 and almost did a comback until the last round where I only let her get 1 hit before I destroyed her with all the ways I did damage the first time attacking from a range where I can hit, baiting counters and throwing them with them doing 30% life each.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WQLi8w-XmV8

I won by getting decent damage stray hits, good juggles and throws that do devastating damage and spacing out Christie who had optimized combos but sometimes did the back strike where I could knock her out of and do damage. Also note how she never counters too much due to me throwing and that can be used to your advantage.
 
H

Holyoneturtle

Member
Gez said:
Can't for the life of me work out how charge characters properly work and I have being playing fighting games for almost 20 years (not saying I was any good).

I have watched vids and the concept of pre-charging a move while performing other moves confounds me. I can pull off charge moves on its own but I can't do them naturally so they flow.
Click to expand...

Some normal moves cancel into charge moves. Lets take Guile's flash kick for example. Cr.mp can cancel into flash kick but cr.mk cannot cancel into it. You have to find out which normal buttons can cancel into your charged moves. A good place to start is to go into training room and testing it out for yourself. Although I'm pretty sure someone would have made a guide about it.
 
stn

stn

Member
Holyoneturtle said:
Some normal moves cancel into charge moves. Lets take Guile's flash kick for example. Cr.mp can cancel into flash kick but cr.mk cannot cancel into it. You have to find out which normal buttons can cancel into your charged moves. A good place to start is to go into training room and testing it out for yourself. Although I'm pretty sure someone would have made a guide about it.
Click to expand...
Yup. Just to add to this: you will instinctively learn how to go into charge out of every normal, jump, and overall situation. The key behind it is masking every normal with a charge hold the moment you start the animation (ex. I press standing fierce, then immediately hold down-back the instant after I press it, thereby initiating charge through the animation frames of the standing fierce).
 
E

Edgeward

Member
ImBarryScott said:
I've been playing pretty badly lately (nearly went down to bronze again last week) so I'd been searching on tips for improving my game. Thanks to Patrick Miller I found this thread.

I've been doing a lot better in the past couple of days (I only really get about an hour a night to play). Last night I got matched against a super platinum and whilst I did get completely bodied I don't think I played too badly.

Looking for tips to improve my game:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZN2TMKyzXp8

Things I've noted myself from watching it back:

I missed a couple of easy crush counters.
I need to improve my reading of throws as I was getting crush countered trying to tech on wake up.
I hardly use my v-meter. I think I waste it by trying to wait to combo into it. I should probably just throw it out as soon as it's available.
I stupidly ate a few throws after dashing in. Not really sure what happened there. I'll have to watch it back with inputs on.

This was only the second Guile I've fought so I don't think I did too badly. And I think I probably could have taken a round off him, maybe.

Any advice is much appreciated.

Edit: Just gone back and watched with inputs. It looks like I just need to improve my execution. In one case I tried to throw on dash in but pressed throw too early. In another case I tried to cr.lp on dash in but get thrown. I guess my timing was off with that one too as cr.lp is 3 frames but I believe all throws in this game are 4 frames. Still, cr.lp has only two active frames so it's a bit risky to try and use it to beat throws...
Click to expand...

This is really late but the thing I noticed in the first match was your need to presses buttons in neutral and when at frame disadvantage like when blocking a sonic boom. He got you really good with crush counters because of it early on. He didn't punish you for raw sweeps but it is something to be careful of when you don't space it right. And considering you didn't fight a lot of Guile's it's understandable but knowing he what set-up he can do off a blocked boom, most likely a dash throw or overhead, you are usually better off just blocking.

I think your idea of v meter use in this match was sound, making unsafe moves safe. Something to look into is being to cancel in v trigger off of Chun's sliding punch.

And yes, you weren't prepared for the optimal punishes but that is something you need to go into training mode and practice out.

And throws in this game are 5 frames.


ShinMaruku said:
A few matches for critique:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TopV4UlG2U0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wSEaRdBItZQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q9JIbPkWHAQ
Click to expand...

Have you decided on which you want to main? I would first suggest settling on either Karin or Cammy and then exploring what you can do. You relied a lot of your specials and heavy attacks, and it was really surprising to see that gold Nash not pick up on your tendencies and got beaten for it. I also notice you don't have safe, reliable pressure combos like have a cammy v skill hit you tried to special instead of the easy hit confirm of cr mp, cr mp to spiral arrow. And don't dp whenever you get under pressure. Better players will bait those out and kill you for it especailly with Cammy's low health.

I say it's more important to stick with one starting out because you aren't comfortable in the neutral game. You always try to get in via hooligan or spiral arrow and neither are safe and can easily be punished. You need to be comfortable with her walk speed and ranges of her normal attacks so you can have a safe approach.

If you aren't familiar with footsies then take a look at this video.
https://youtu.be/FQQCan5oo90?t=41m25s
 
D

Demon_Stephen

Member
With Street Fighter V out, and all the Killer Instinct hype, I have been developing an interest in fighting games. I really enjoyed watching EVO 2015 KI and Smash finals, and I've decided to join the fun. I play Smash 4 on my 3ds, and just recently bought Super Street fighter 4 for my 3ds to learn fundamentals. I thought it would be a good place to start cause it was super cheap and I don't have the time or funds for new consoles. Is super street fighter 4, for the 3ds, a good entry point to learn what fighting games are about, or should I just stick with Smash 4?
 
O

oneida

Cock Strain, Lifetime Warranty
Demon_Stephen said:
With Street Fighter V out, and all the Killer Instinct hype, I have been developing an interest in fighting games. I really enjoyed watching EVO 2015 KI and Smash finals, and I've decided to join the fun. I play Smash 4 on my 3ds, and just recently bought Super Street fighter 4 for my 3ds to learn fundamentals. I thought it would be a good place to start cause it was super cheap and I don't have the time or funds for new consoles. Is super street fighter 4, for the 3ds, a good entry point to learn what fighting games are about, or should I just stick with Smash 4?
Click to expand...
to be frank i can't imagine SFIV 3DS being helpful in learning fundamentals as the game has no instructional aspects whatsoever and the online is pretty bad. playing against people will reinforce fundamentals more than anything else

anyway if you're just starting out it really doesn't matter just play the games you're interested in.
 
E

Edgeward

Member
Demon_Stephen said:
With Street Fighter V out, and all the Killer Instinct hype, I have been developing an interest in fighting games. I really enjoyed watching EVO 2015 KI and Smash finals, and I've decided to join the fun. I play Smash 4 on my 3ds, and just recently bought Super Street fighter 4 for my 3ds to learn fundamentals. I thought it would be a good place to start cause it was super cheap and I don't have the time or funds for new consoles. Is super street fighter 4, for the 3ds, a good entry point to learn what fighting games are about, or should I just stick with Smash 4?
Click to expand...

Well, I am not too familiar with the 3ds version but while any game is okay to learn, you need to play actual people get used to the pressure of playing a real person and I don't think the online is healthy enough to teach that. And playing the cpu just doesn't prepare you for it. And I think the touch control shortcuts might not be turned off for online play so you just run into cheap, broken stuff like Guile not need to charge for his sonic booms.

Smash is an entirely different animal and while some things like movement and spacing are universal it's just too different of skills to translate over smoothly, imo. So until you get a console or pc just stick with Smash for now.
 
T

thumb

Banned
I'm attempting to practice various situations in SF V, but I don't see a way to record dummy actions that are not from wake-up or guard recovery. Is there really no way to have the dummy, for example, just stand there and throw fireballs?
 
A

Armaly

Member
thumb said:
I'm attempting to practice various situations in SF V, but I don't see a way to record dummy actions that are not from wake-up or guard recovery. Is there really no way to have the dummy, for example, just stand there and throw fireballs?
Click to expand...

Use the record option to save it to a record slot and then set the dummy to playback that slot.

Edit: Here
 
H

h0mebas3

Member
Curious with the announcement of Injustice 2 if anyone wanted to pick up the old game and start learning? If so I can play on PC or PS4.
 
E

Edgeward

Member
h0mebas3 said:
Curious with the announcement of Injustice 2 if anyone wanted to pick up the old game and start learning? If so I can play on PC or PS4.
Click to expand...

I just bought Injustice on PC to get through the SP content but learning the game would be interesting since I never took NRS games seriously on a competitive level.
 
Cindi Mayweather

Cindi Mayweather

Member
Rise from your grave! My beautiful creation! Been busy and wanted to plan learning sessions with people. I work weekends so it's hard to schedule. I wanna be in tip top shape for Juri when she drops! Plan on doing a big update to help assist people playing GGXRD Rev and prep for KOFXIV.
 
ShinMaruku

ShinMaruku

Member
A little progress report with my play with SF5.

I'd like to know if there is any progress because withou an outside look I can't trust my own judgements because often times the game can piss me off.

SFV:

Month1:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bw3cKnUhpPY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wz0UDMSThN4

Month2:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bq8OK2NU5d8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zCmKKCdY6Xg

Month3:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JP_R8AjBYUs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z9lOcNh5o5o

My most recent matches:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TopV4UlG2U0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MB21b1T6PiI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xYqoLo3iDcs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vBKl-KQGqiM
 
E

Edgeward

Member
h0mebas3 said:
PM me and we can play some rounds :)
Click to expand...

haha, honestly, I don't know when I will get around to it. Got other games taking up my time atm

ShinMaruku said:
A little progress report with my play with SF5.

I'd like to know if there is any progress because withou an outside look I can't trust my own judgements because often times the game can piss me off.

SFV:

Month1:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bw3cKnUhpPY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wz0UDMSThN4

Month2:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bq8OK2NU5d8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zCmKKCdY6Xg

Month3:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JP_R8AjBYUs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z9lOcNh5o5o

My most recent matches:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TopV4UlG2U0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MB21b1T6PiI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xYqoLo3iDcs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vBKl-KQGqiM
Click to expand...

I only looked at your recent matches so here is what I noticed.

You are too active relative to your lack of overall gameplan. It's a lot of moves that don't really form a strategy other just hitting the person regardless of spacing and situation. It will lead to a lot of times where a patient and defensive opponent can win just by punishing all the unsafe moves you are doing. If you want to take your skill to another level you will need to study and learn about footsies/space control. And that takes patience, both in and out of the game to practice and execute.

Execution wise it's a lot of unable to special cancel moves from normals. which is a big part of games. It's more damaging and the way to do punishes.

There was also a lack of punishes and that's from doing raw specials or heavy attacks. You need to develop some go to punishes. a quick punish from a light attack into a special, one from medium, and a heavy one for the big whiffs or blocked supers/dps. Punishes don't need to be large combos to start off. cr mp into spiral arrow/cannon spike is perfectly fine.

I would recommend staying with one char and focusing on knowing all the normals they can do the range of them and when to use them. If you spend your time across 3 chars you will just get a very large overview and will rely on just specials and heavy attacks. So you get more comfortable in the neutral game/spacing and committing to certain combos and punishes and eventually anti-airing as well.
 
M

markwaters

Neo Member
ShinMaruku said:
A little progress report with my play with SF5.

I'd like to know if there is any progress because withou an outside look I can't trust my own judgements because often times the game can piss me off.

SFV:

Month1:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bw3cKnUhpPY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wz0UDMSThN4

Month2:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bq8OK2NU5d8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zCmKKCdY6Xg

Month3:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JP_R8AjBYUs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z9lOcNh5o5o

My most recent matches:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TopV4UlG2U0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MB21b1T6PiI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xYqoLo3iDcs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vBKl-KQGqiM
Click to expand...

Well, how do you feel during games now? Are you noticing more things you should/could be doing but aren't? That's the biggest sign of improvement at the beginner and intermediate level. I think last time we spoke and played a couple of games, you likened SF fundamentals to "differential calculus" and said you couldn't make sense of them. Do you feel differently now?

The things I think you need to work on remain relatively the same: Refining your approach and pressure so that it's safe and consistent but still threatening, and capitalizing on your advantages (hit confirms, punishing, etc).

You look like you've got better handle on ranges in regard to neutral, but you still throw out unsafe moves in hopes of catching them out (mid range tenkos with Karin, point blank volty line overhead with Laura among other things).

You've got to get comfortable pressuring your opponents without taking unsafe risks and betting your health bar. Karin and Laura don't have the health to risk, and they have pressure tools that advance them forward and keep you safe on block that you don't use very much: Karin has orochi, the shoulder move, which you can use instead of tenko without confirming and worrying about getting punished, and Lauren has LP bolt charge, which you can be cancelling from cr.MK instead of volty line. Volty line is great if you space it out, but at close range, it's very punishable on block.

Overall, at this point, it's less about how you're playing the game and more about how you're thinking about it. Consistency comes with practice and if you play a lot, you'll get there no matter what, but it goes a lot faster once you start to make sense of what you should be doing.
 
D

Drahcir

Member
Cindi Mayweather said:
Rise from your grave! My beautiful creation! Been busy and wanted to plan learning sessions with people. I work weekends so it's hard to schedule. I wanna be in tip top shape for Juri when she drops! Plan on doing a big update to help assist people playing GGXRD Rev and prep for KOFXIV.
Click to expand...

Thanks for bumping this thread back up, Cindi! I had been meaning to post here for the longest time, but it dropped off the radar. Do you guys have a dedicated Battle Lounge set up amongst the players in this thread? I'd really love to be able to jump online and learn from some of you guys some time when time and schedule permits!

Also, what is that FGC Discord link on the OP? What does joining it offer?

So I'm a SF5 newbie though I have played the game since launch. I only have about half a dozen online matches to my belt and I'm just pressing buttons really with no rhyme or reason. I've done my reading on fighting game fundamentals, but, to be honest, a match moves too fast for me to implement what I want/need to do, which makes me forget. I'm hoping this is what is happening because I just haven't played enough with others online. Even so, I generally cannot get past the first 20 stages of Hard Survival.

On a lot of pro streams and general FG talk, people often mention frame data of a particular move or character but that kind of talk generally goes in one ear and out the other to me. I'm not a pro player, so all I can see is whether my opponent is attacking with light, medium, heavy, or special attacks. I'd rather not have to learn the plus or minuses of each attack. But do I absolutely need to know frame data to just have fun and without constantly losing?
 
K

Kikirin

Member
Drahcir said:
On a lot of pro streams and general FG talk, people often mention frame data of a particular move or character but that kind of talk generally goes in one ear and out the other to me. I'm not a pro player, so all I can see is whether my opponent is attacking with light, medium, heavy, or special attacks. I'd rather not have to learn the plus or minuses of each attack. But do I absolutely need to know frame data to just have fun and without constantly losing?
Click to expand...

Being able to visually distinguish between different moves is a pretty good first step. Knowing the exact frame data isn't an absolute necessity, but it can help you reach conclusions faster. By playing more and gaining experience, you'll still be able to organically develop a feel for how advantageous (plus) or not (minus) particular moves are, and when it is your "turn" to attack. You can reach a decent level from just that alone.
 
Cindi Mayweather

Cindi Mayweather

Member
Discord - (quote to see)

We make lounges occasionally.

We need to plan a day and time. I can't join at nights unless it's Tuesday and Wednesday but I'm working nights every day but those days.
 
M

markwaters

Neo Member
Cindi Mayweather said:
Discord - (quote to see)

We make lounges occasionally.

We need to plan a day and time. I can't join at nights unless it's Tuesday and Wednesday but I'm working nights every day but those days.
Click to expand...

What's everybody up to tonight? I need to grind out some Ibuki matches. I'm usually home around 7PM central.
 
D

Drahcir

Member
Kikirin said:
Being able to visually distinguish between different moves is a pretty good first step. Knowing the exact frame data isn't an absolute necessity, but it can help you reach conclusions faster. By playing more and gaining experience, you'll still be able to organically develop a feel for how advantageous (plus) or not (minus) particular moves are, and when it is your "turn" to attack. You can reach a decent level from just that alone.
Click to expand...

Thanks, Kikirin, for the insight! It's a bit daunting with so many characters and having to learn match ups at first that recognizing frame data adds to the appearance of a much steeper learning curve for a rookie like myself.

markwaters said:
No plans tonight, so that should work out fine. Everybody, come play some video games!
Click to expand...

I'll look for you tonight! I'm in PST, so hopefully it won't be too late. What's your CFN?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

  • Poll
Fighting games; much loved but quickly abandoned. Do you play them more than 1 week?
Poll 2
68
1K
EverydayBeast replied
“Do you get excited every time you see something pink?” Like a Dragon creator talks about his fight with SEGA for freedom of expression
Game Dev
3
489
Bring Back Scalebound replied
It’s been a while since I really wanted to buy a fighting game but Tekken changed it.
26
1K
Robb replied
Unintentionally Funny/ Weird Game Design Choices
Opinion Cringe Analysis
4
893
Angry_Megalodon replied
What is your personal comfort food game?
2 3
122
4K
Regginator replied
Top Bottom