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[Arulan]

Jup, but let's face it. This forum has lots of threads about emulation etc. That's all piracy if we're being honest. Of course are all the people on here using emulation for games they own and are all the anti-DRM people interested in piracy to remove DRM.

The mods should have more strict rules about piracy imo. There are other forums enough where you can talk about it without having to say lots of excuses nobody really believes.

Such nonsense.

The removal of DRM, and emulation are critical to video game preservation. The latter can also provide you with an experience better than the original, notably with 3D games, such as with Dolphin. It's also responsible for how legal methods of purchase and play, such as through GOG, can be accomplished. But I'm sure you already know all of this...

 

[Jackpot]

Jup, but let's face it. This forum has lots of threads about emulation etc. That's all piracy if we're being honest.

I dare you to jump into one of the many emulation threads and accuse everyone in there of piracy.

 

[Parsnip]

Here's a little story about me and piracy. I used to pirate a lot games when I was younger, like a shit ton of stuff. I didn't have a good enough PC to play most of the games, but I downloaded everything that looked remotely intetesting and then burned it to dvd and stashed it away. It was a combo of poor student and fast internet with no data caps.

Fast forward quite a few years and about 6 months ago I was at my parents place digging through some stuff that I had left there when I moved out and found two large binders of "backup" dvds. I never played like 90% of those games, and the games I did play I actually did so more recently after I bought them from Steam.

It's really weird to look back at the person I was back then through the lense of games I pirated because I thought they looked interesting.

And to realize that I still hoard a shit ton of games (1577 on Steam), just through indie bundles now.

 

[L.O.R.D]

Here's a little story about me and piracy. I used to pirate a lot games when I was younger, like a shit ton of stuff. I didn't have a good enough PC to play most of the games, but I downloaded everything that looked remotely intetesting and then burned it to dvd and stashed it away. It was a combo of poor student and fast internet with no data caps.

Fast forward quite a few years and about 6 months ago I was at my parents place digging through some stuff that I had left there when I moved out and found two large binders of "backup" dvds. I never played like 90% of those games, and the games I did play I actually did so more recently after I bought them from Steam.

It's really weird to look back at the person I was back then through the lense of games I pirated because I thought they looked intetesting.

And to realize that I still hoard a shit ton of games (1577 on Steam), just through indie bundles now.

same with me,now i buy any game look interesting to me,but never play them(unless idling them)

 

[Dunkley]

Jup, but let's face it. This forum has lots of threads about emulation etc. That's all piracy if we're being honest.

Do you even know how easy it is nowadays to rip games onto your PC? PS2 DVDs can be just ripped straight on the PC and even run on an emulator from the disc and considering how easy it is to softmod a Wii you have easy access to Wii and Gamecube ripping as well.

I mean I admit I have no idea how people ripped their WiiU games back when Cemu first released, but beyond that, no, it's far from that. Not everyone wants to break the law with emulation, many people like me just like to see their games in a higher resolution or with some fancy upscaling filters.

 

[Lanrutcon]

Every time I see someone equate emulation to piracy I check my calendar to see what year it is.

It's 2016, asshats.

 

[test_account]

My mistake then. Sorry.

Nah, no worries, i just mentioned it as info and i thought that the ban was related to the link posting too at first.

Every time I see someone equate emulation to piracy I check my calendar to see what year it is.

It's 2016, asshats.

To be fair, that arguement was just as relevant now as it was before. I mean that the time/years hasnt changed it. Emulation doesnt have to be piracy of course, thats why it shouldnt be a problem to have threads about it here.

 

[Corronchilejano]

I was hoping there was info about the crack itself and how it works, but here we are, talking about emulation.

 

[Reizo Ryuu]

Because...?

This study also includes software and games:

‘Worst’ File-Sharing Pirates Spend 300% More on Content Than ‘Honest’ Consumers

Disclaimer: I actually don't pirate. I just appreciate facts more than FUD.

Personally, I just can't believe stuff like this.
I spend a lot of money on entertainment, have like 100 blurays, go to the theater twice a week, have a shitton of games/consoles, a gaming pc, 300 titles on steam, netflix.

But my friends look at me like I'm crazy, because "why pay for something if you can get it for free?"
And they aren't poor either, heck one of them just bought a brand new BMW 5 series.
They simply don't see the point of paying for something if you can get it for free.

Then about a year ago one of them asked me: "Hey what's up with arkham knight? I can't find it anywhere."
So I told him it was protected by some new anti tamper software and he just wound up buying it.

 

[demosthenes]

If there is a person, who puts all he has into having an okay gaming PC, but may be living in a 3rd world country, mind you with insanely high costs for games especially when you include currency conversions, would it be so bad that now he/she has an opportunity to enjoy that game, that they wouldn't have been able to afford anyway. Considering they may live in a country where that money is needed for food/clothing/shelter/medicine etc.?

In a sense, they wouldn't have been able to purchase the game anyway, so why not let them enjoy whatever pleasure they can have by letting them play a video game. It might be the only source of enjoyment they can extract out of their poverty ridden lives.

Like, I'm fortunate to be a wealthy-enough American, so I can enjoy this hobby. But, if you're poor - then all of a sudden, fuck you no soup for you. Go outside and play with rocks??

Is it so bad that people who are unable to afford video games can have a way to play them and bring some happiness to their lives? They wouldn't have been able to purchase the game anyway so it's not really 'lost' revenue.

And I understand the counter points, that - just because you're poor that doesn't give you the right to steal a car, or a tv - I get that. But in the context of a video game forum where we all love video games, and many of us can afford to purchase these graphics cards, TV's, consoles, and games - why would we become so antagonistic against those who also want to enjoy games but are less fortunate.

I would ask a developer, if there is a person who cannot by any reasonable metric consistently purchase video games that may be even more expensive than 60 USD converted to their currency, wouldn't you rather just let that person still be able to enjoy your creative work? Again, and I stress this for individuals that wouldn't have been able to buy the game anyway. And look, you might say - it's a video game, not food - or medication, or a vaccine. But those are things important for sustaining the body, but can it also be argued that video games help sustain the mind, the soul - they bring happiness right?

By the way I'm just trying to 'see' the reasoning behind the Topic Creator's statements. Ultimately at the end of the day - a crime is a crime and shouldn't be tolerated. So don't kill me on this. Just trying to see it at a different angle.

I'm happy for your post and I think it's a fine line.

You could probably tell from my posts that I'm very anti piracy/stealing/etc. I have relatives that still download shows and movies when they're available on stuff like Netflix or Hulu where they could pay a small amount of money a month and don't do it just because they can and it drives me crazy. I see it the same way for games. I love this hobby and I will do my best to support the parts of it that I love. For me that's spending money when people earn it.

The fine line is for the scenario you described and frankly I think there are too many variables to really debate it, though if you would like to over PM I'd be game. I don't want to wish misery on people, at the same time I want the dev/pubs to be able to find a common ground compromise with customers. There are some in this thread who despise DRM and see a world they want, not the one we're actually in.

Because...?

This study also includes software and games:

‘Worst’ File-Sharing Pirates Spend 300% More on Content Than ‘Honest’ Consumers





Disclaimer: I actually don't pirate. I just appreciate facts more than FUD.

I hated statistics, is 1,489 a good population to gain a statistical significance?

 

[Fracas]

This forum is surprisingly pro piracy. Not a good look.

I wouldn't argue it's pro-piracy, but it is pretty interesting how apathetic people seem to be toward the folks that make the products they consume daily.

At the end of the day, there is a reason DRM exists and countless devs invest in it.

 

[CecilRousso]

I wouldn't argue it's pro-piracy, but it is pretty interesting how apathetic people seem to be toward the folks that make the products they consume daily.

The fight against piracy is the dev's fight, not ours. We should not have to accept more restrictations with our purchases, because of what other people do.

I pay full price for the games I want to support, and I can stretch as far as accepting Steam and a server depency against that platform in my purchases. After that, I feel that I have done what they should be able to request from me. The rest is up to them.

 

[StereoVsn]

Do you even know how easy it is nowadays to rip games onto your PC? PS2 DVDs can be just ripped straight on the PC and even run on an emulator from the disc and considering how easy it is to softmod a Wii you have easy access to Wii and Gamecube ripping as well.

I mean I admit I have no idea how people ripped their WiiU games back when Cemu first released, but beyond that, no, it's far from that. Not everyone wants to break the law with emulation, many people like me just like to see their games in a higher resolution or with some fancy upscaling filters.

Also it's really easy to rip carts these days as well. Saturn is an exception I think.

 

[horkrux]

The problem with the 'preservation' argument: Doom is only a few months old. Can we wait a few years before worrying about any of this? I think there is little reason to get excited about cracked games (not in this case apparantly since it relies on yet another bypass) so soon. Crackers have plenty of time to figure this all out before we actually get anywhere near any problems regarding preservation.

I think the worst part is that I don't quite think that crackers have preservation in mind when they make these cracks. It's a byproduct of an otherwise not so positive business.

 

[CecilRousso]

The problem with the 'preservation' argument: Doom is only a few months old. Can we wait a few years before worrying about any of this? I think there is little reason to get excited about cracked games (not in this case apparantly since it relies on yet another bypass) so soon. Crackers have plenty of time to figure this all out before we actually get anywhere near any problems regarding preservation.

This is about much more then Doom. That game is only being talked about because the newest crack supposedly is for Doom. And people want it to succeed because they want other devs to be dissuaded from using Denuvo, and the sooner Denuvo is rendered useless the better for us as customers.

Indies have started to use it, in Inside and Abzu, and as a result we doesn't seem to get GOG releases for games like that.

 

[Easy_D]

Because you can't really measure it. Your game is either DRM'd up or there's a cracked version on Pirate Bay, you can't put a game out DRM free and then patch it in nor can you sell a DRM free version next to a DRM version and expect the game to not be uploaded.

Schrödinger's Videogame right here. I guess you're right. The closest we could get to such a comparison would be Witcher 3, which is both on Steam and GoG DRM Free (and obviously on torrent sites), but even then it wouldn't work.

 

[demosthenes]

This is about much more then Doom. That game is only being talked about because the newest crack supposedly is for Doom. And people want it to succeed because they want other devs to be dissuaded from using Denuvo, and the sooner Denuvo is rendered useless the better for us as customers.

Indies have started to use it, in Inside and Abzu, and as a result we doesn't seem to get GOG releases for games like that.

You don't understand how this works. If Denuvo is rendered completely useless (as in it can't be patched) then they will go for something stronger.

 

[CecilRousso]

You don't understand how this works. If Denuvo is rendered completely useless (as in it can't be patched) then they will go for something stronger.

Of course I understand that someone will try, and then some devs will try implementing the resulting solution, if one becomes available.

But I will rather see that circle continue, then see Denuvo being spread even further now, since I don't think Denuvo should have such authority over our games.

 

[demosthenes]

Of course I understand that someone will try, and then some devs will try implementing the resulting solution, if one becomes available.

But I will rather see that circle continue, then see Denuvo being spread even further now, since I don't think Denuvo should have such authority over our games.

There is a world you want. Then, there is the world we live in.

The issue I have is that the more games are cracked and solutions that are used don't work, will only have devs/pubs asking for more restrictions and more online only games because they want total control.

 

[CecilRousso]

There is a world you want. Then, there is the world we live in.

I have had the world I wanted for years, where Steam killed of Securom and similiar systems, DRM free options grew, and GOG went from strength to strength.

And this with games with pure singleplayer modes.

It's only recently that it's come under threat again, with Denuvo.

 

[Makoto-Yuki]

does this stop the game crashing every 5-10 minutes? i loved this game but i can't handle restarting the game all the time because the game just instantly crashes. it's a common problem. i'll be avoiding anything developed or published by bethesda in the future. i have yet to play one of them that doesn't run like crap.

 

[holygeesus]

I'm no authority when it comes to cracking, but surely, if the workaround (Denuvo itself hasn't been cracked, as we understand it) relies on a Steam exploit to run it, and therefore Steam running in the background, couldn't it easily be patched out by Valve?

As I understand it, Steam is being tricked into thinking you are playing the Doom demo, instead of the actual full game?

 

[SmoothRunningGun]

Are we supposed to be happy that people can steal someone's hard work?

 

[scitek]

Are we supposed to be happy that people can steal someone's hard work?

hoo boy

 

[Tecnniqe]

Are we supposed to be happy that people can steal someone's hard work?

 

[CecilRousso]

Are we supposed to be happy that people can steal someone's hard work?

Nope, that's not what people are saying.

 

[GavinUK86]

Are we supposed to be happy that people can steal someone's hard work?

 

[Fracas]

Are we supposed to be happy that people can steal someone's hard work?

It's really about ethics in game preservation

 

[PodcastFips]

Every time I see someone equate emulation to piracy I check my calendar to see what year it is.

It's 2016, asshats.

The fact that emulating games which you don't own equals piracy will not change, even in 2316.

No reason to call anyone an asshat.

 

[Elsolar]

This is good news, an uncrackable DRM scheme is very dangerous from a consumer protection standpoint. People forget that the only reason we were able to leave the awfulness of SECUROM and limited installations was because those DRM schemes were repeatedly shown to be crackable, and to only affect the experience of the paying customer, never the pirate. id Software used to release their source code, so that the community and industry could observe and learn from their expertise. Those games are immortal now, anyone with the knowledge and dedication can port them to any platform he or she chooses. How fall id have fallen, to now release a game that has been intentionally obfuscated and impossible to run without connecting to a 3rd party service. These crackers are doing good work by creating a standalone, future-proof version of the binary. It's crazy to me that people would decry that effort.

 

[Chezzymann]

I'm mainly worried about how, whenever denuvo serves are shut down 15 years or whenever from now, all these games will be unplayable and lost to history.

 

[NexusGamer]

I'm mainly worried about how, whenever denuvo serves are shut down 15 years or whenever from now, all these games will be unplayable and lost to history.

history aside, from an individual consumer perspective can we really be sure that you can play your legitimately bought version if servers are down in 15 yrs? ie GFWL

 

[madjoki]

I'm no authority when it comes to cracking, but surely, if the workaround (Denuvo itself hasn't been cracked, as we understand it) relies on a Steam exploit to run it, and therefore Steam running in the background, couldn't it easily be patched out by Valve?

As I understand it, Steam is being tricked into thinking you are playing the Doom demo, instead of the actual full game?

Yeah, this seems something that Valve and/or Denuvo can patch server side. So temporary workaround that still relies on Denuvo servers.

 

[petran79]

Here's a little story about me and piracy. I used to pirate a lot games when I was younger, like a shit ton of stuff. I didn't have a good enough PC to play most of the games, but I downloaded everything that looked remotely interesting and then burned it to dvd and stashed it away. It was a combo of poor student and fast internet with no data caps.

It was not just games. Regarding radio cassettes it was quite common to record it from radio or copy it in a blank tape, borrow or lent it to friends etc
Same with computer games, most of which were floppy disks.

Best way to find info, especially when you were a newcomer, was to asks friends or visit pirate shops. No one in their right minds would suggest you to go and buy a full retail game like today. They'd give you the game to copy or let you borrow it. I kinda miss that type of communication.

I remember there was a computer shop where I lived. It had a list of all popular DOS games and would copy them to the floppies you provided through X-Copy. I remember finding quite a lot of gems there

But things were different back then. Computer games werent the multi-billion dollar industry like today. Corporate management wasnt so widespread, with access and influence to the legal system.

 

[Gamezone]

What's the conclusion here? Is it cracked or bypassed?

 

[Altairre]

What's the conclusion here? Is it cracked or bypassed?

The latter. Apparently you need a steam account and an internet connection.

 

[Dick Justice]

The fact that emulating games which you don't own equals piracy will not change, even in 2316.

No reason to call anyone an asshat.

He said emulation. You're the one who tacked on the "which you don't own" part.

 

[cyberheater]

I feel from an archival point of view that cracking DRM is very important as long as it's done on titles way past its launch date. This one is a little too close.

 

[LordOcidax]

Are we supposed to be happy that people can steal someone's hard work?

Yes, because 10 out of 100 people are going to use the Crack to "preserve" the game in the future, the rest of people are going to use the crack to pirate the game, but preservation is all that matter... forget about the devs and their jobs they are happy with cracks too... If you dont undertand that... you are a joke.

 

[Dmented]

I feel from an archival point of view that cracking DRM is very important as long as it's done on titles way past its launch date. This one is a little too close.

I'd love for if Denuvo would shut itself off after like a year or something. So it both preserves the game and preserves sales at the time they mean the most.

 

[prudislav]

Interesting pirates even can play last Just Cause 3 DLC which isnt even officially released .... thats both sad and hilarious at the same time ... i guess paying customers won again

 

[Jackpot]

Jup, but let's face it. This forum has lots of threads about emulation etc. That's all piracy if we're being honest.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1259010

Waiting for you to jump on in this thread and decry all these pirates, or are you just full of it?

 

[gatti-man]

It's really about ethics in game preservation

If it was really about ethics and game preservation we wouldn't be talking about 2 month old games. Really now.

 

[L.O.R.D]

The latter. Apparently you need a steam account and an internet connection.

If this,then it's not different than denuvo,it's just switching from paid DRM to another DRM,there is no preservation in this case,maybe they want to know how many will take the bait.

 

[Acinixys]

I'm mainly worried about how, whenever denuvo serves are shut down 15 years or whenever from now, all these games will be unplayable and lost to history.

This

I have a 100% store bought, legal copy of Bulletstorm thats is unplayable because it requires GFWL servers to activate

The only way I can play it now is if I download a crack. Makes me very sad

 

[joms5]

Absolutely. In particular on second-gen 3D systems (e.g. PS2 or GC) the difference in image quality that you get from good emulation compared to the original system is incredibly stark. For older systems like SNES it's far more convenient than trying to hook up a physical one (I still have it somewhere in a box in the basement), adds features such as save states and suspend/resume, and looks a lot better on modern displays with some good CRT emulation.

I will second this. I just picked up a sensor bar for dolphin (LINK) so that I could play Mario Galaxy again in glorious HD.

Hell I even spent a shitload on a Retrode (no longer being made) so that I could play my old save games on an emulator. The graphical quality you get from emulation is massive in most cases. I know some would disagree with me on 8 and 16 bit games, but the sharpness of the image in those games doesn't compare with the blurry mess of going through coax or composite.

I know this isn't for everyone, but I think it may surprise you how many people play their disc games on emulators. That's the nice thing about physical media, although your console may die one day, through emulation your games will always have value.

EDIT: On topic, it probably won't be long until Steam or Denuvo figures out a way to make this no longer functional. So all those anti-piracy people can rest assured that those filthy pirates out there won't be singing Yo-ho-ho for long.

 

[Gamezone]

This

I have a 100% store bought, legal copy of Bulletstorm thats is unplayable because it requires GFWL servers to activate

The only way I can play it now is if I download a crack. Makes me very sad

That's disgusting. I can't understand why so many here, especially console gamers are so pro digital. PC at least offers way better deals.

 

[horkrux]

This

I have a 100% store bought, legal copy of Bulletstorm thats is unplayable because it requires GFWL servers to activate

The only way I can play it now is if I download a crack. Makes me very sad

That's what you read a lot on the internet. The reality though is...

Bulletstorm still works fine, the GfWL servers still work fine. You just have to download the newest version of GfWL and you're gold. I've tested it myself.

 

[Reizo Ryuu]

This

I have a 100% store bought, legal copy of Bulletstorm thats is unplayable because it requires GFWL servers to activate

The only way I can play it now is if I download a crack. Makes me very sad

I don't think that's true, GFWL still works fine, you just need to update it to the latest version.
I think you can actually activate the retail code on origin as well.

 

[striferser]

Do people really use emulators to play games they already own then? Genuine question as I have no interest in them, so have no idea what the scene surrounding them is like. I can't see people who played Super Mario Brothers 25 years ago, really wanting to play the game again on their PC though, or at least the number of people doing so, dwarfed by people playing Neo Geo games that they could no way afford when they came out, but that is speculation on my part, as you correctly pointed out.

Indeed. Much easier to patch the game or using save state to help you progress with the game.