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The first Kingdom Hearts is still the best.

MasterBalls said:
Okay, fair enough. Played through this part earlier today as fast as I possible could.

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Nope!
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Isn't all you do in this fight flying towards him while dodging projectiles, hit him a few times and then get pushed back (been a while since my last KH1 playthrough)? Boring fight as Sora, but IF we had Boss Fights during Gummi Ship sections (why don't we have them ;-;), Chernabog would have been perfect. I actually prefer the Chernabog fight from Dream Drop Distance since it makes sense to use the World Drop mechanics during the fight against him.
 
Definitely agree with you OP, and I'm a major Kingdom Hearts fan that has imported every Final Mix so far and even did the infamous LV1 CM playthrough of KH2FM successfully.

KH1FM just has a certain charm and atmosphere that was lacking in all the others. I definitely hate the direction that the world design took in the later games, and I still believe that KH1FM had the best world design.
 
Also as much as I love these games Kh1 has atrocious and tedious level design...its sooooo bad.... and what the hell is up with the jump?

Really wish they would add in some actual platforming mechanics instead of just abolishing them altogether like they did in 2.
 
I really didn't like KH1. My best friend really wanted me to play through it and it was suffering. The final area was pretty cool though. Hollow Bastion can go to hell though.

Kh2 started off pretty strongly. I loved the Roxas prologue. I didn't care for the most of the worlds, but none of them were nearly as bad as Kingdom Hearts 1's god awful worlds though.

Birth by Sleep was fantastic, though it took me a while to get through.

I tried playing through 358, but I just couldn't do it.
 
Haeralis The BRave said:
Definitely agree with you OP, and I'm a major Kingdom Hearts fan that has imported every Final Mix so far and even did the infamous LV1 CM playthrough of KH2FM successfully.

KH1FM just has a certain charm and atmosphere that was lacking in all the others. I definitely hate the direction that the world design took in the later games, and I still believe that KH1FM had the best world design.
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KH1 is incredibly confusing to maneuver for first time players, if they had more direction in the level design I might agree.
 
Mr. Smiley said:
Where a Yoko Shimomura version of Hellfire plays as the battle background. And Frollo possessed by heartless, turns into a monster modeled after the gargoyles on the Bell Tower (not those gargoyles) where a Shimomura version of Sanctuary plays as you do battle in the sky, with the city in flames as a revolution plays out underneath.

So yeah, Hunchback of Notre Dame was one of my favorite Disney movies. :P
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Aaargh WHY DIDN'T THEY USE HELLFIRE. There was a fan version floating around on YouTube that sounded just like the .midi boss tracks in the first few games, was amazing.
 
Haeralis The BRave said:
Definitely agree with you OP, and I'm a major Kingdom Hearts fan that has imported every Final Mix so far and even did the infamous LV1 CM playthrough of KH2FM successfully.

KH1FM just has a certain charm and atmosphere that was lacking in all the others. I definitely hate the direction that the world design took in the later games, and I still believe that KH1FM had the best world design.
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IMO, the Kingdom Hearts series has always had fairly poor level/world design which is a shame considering the pool of Disney worlds they have access to. Kingdom Hearts 1's best worlds were Hallow Bastion (one of the best in the series), Halloween Town, and Traverse Town. But the rest were pretty bleh. I didn't care for Wonderland, Deep Jungle is the WORST, Neverland was too boring and was mostly just a ship, and the rest were forgettable. Not that the other entries in the series are really any better. They all have a few great worlds with some really boring/bland ones, too.

The level/world design is really the one aspect I wish SE would work on... they need help designing fun to explore worlds desperately.
 
Napalm_Frank said:
All the dude does is ham it up by deepening his voice to ridicilous levels :lol. INDEEEEEED. Tho to be fair his voice is one of the few things I like about him. Xemnas is the worst villain in the series.
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I like Xemnas.

Lightsaber hands, a key character in the entire Organization plot, the whole aspect of him regaining his memories, has the best new cutscenes in KH2FM.
 
I can see why some people think this, especially if they're looking for that lighthearted Disney atmosphere, but I far prefer the artsy direction KH2 took with Organization XIII, the nobodies, and the meaning of existence. Most people pin this as a negative of the series, but it's one of the reasons I love it so much.
 
Napalm_Frank said:
All the dude does is ham it up by deepening his voice to ridicilous levels :lol. INDEEEEEED. Tho to be fair his voice is one of the few things I like about him. Xemnas is the worst villain in the series.
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9 part boss fight ftw....love KH boss fights.... for such a high number its kind of incredible how good KH boss fights are
 
SoraanTribal said:
IMO, the Kingdom Hearts series has always had fairly poor level/world design which is a shame considering the pool of Disney worlds they have access to. Kingdom Hearts 1's best worlds were Hallow Bastion (one of the best in the series), Halloween Town, and Traverse Town. But the rest were pretty bleh. I didn't care for Wonderland, Deep Jungle is the WORST, Neverland was too boring and was mostly just a ship, and the rest were forgettable. Not that the other entries in the series are really any better. They all have a few great worlds with some really boring/bland ones, too.

The level/world design is really the one aspect I wish SE would work on... they need help designing fun to explore worlds desperately.
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I was actually about to post this. This is one of the reasons I am looking forward to FFXV so much, though I don't know about that anymore.
 
Mecha said:
I like Xemnas.

Lightsaber hands, a key character in the entire Organization plot, the whole aspect of him regaining his memories, has the best new cutscenes in KH2FM.
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My main problem with him is that he is built up in CoM to be this super scary badass and in KH2 he literally does nothing. Saix is the one that actually feels like the main baddie out of the organization while Xemnas just sits at his castle doing NOTHING. He doesn't even give orders to the other members before the added FM scenes. Ansem in KH1 was wayyyy better when it comes to foreshadowing and payoff even when he too had relatively little screen time. Maleficent in KH1 is way better also as is Master Xehanort who actually gets shit done himself. Marluxia while pretty minor character in the long run actually did scheme and actually interacted with you and the other org members.

Well ok, if you count
Young Xehanort
as the villain in DDD he was pretty lame too IIRC but then again he was only a lackey of sorts.
 
I stopped taking the story seriously when it was revealed that
apparently nobodies in organization 13 had hearts after all
that's just complete nonsense. I preferred the simple tale of a hero's journey to rescue a bunch of princesses with this incredibly endearing young boy and his disney trio.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRmtPjXyjgc
^ Sora never does anything this endearing and lovable ever again imo. That being said, the gameplay is still really good.
 
MasterBalls said:
That's the entire point, if I want the other sort of thing I'll buy a Final Fantasy title.
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If I wanted a lighthearted Disney atmosphere I would watch a Disney movie, when I buy a KH game I want KH. Disney helps make Kingdom Hearts what it is, but Kingdom Hearts is its own thing.

Crossing Eden said:
I stopped taking the story seriously when it was revealed that
apparently nobodies in organization 13 had hearts after all
that's just complete nonsense. I preferred the simple tale of a hero's journey to rescue a bunch of princesses with this incredibly endearing young boy and his disney trio.
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Days made the plot twist not surprising at all.
 
SoraanTribal said:
The level/world design is really the one aspect I wish SE would work on... they need help designing fun to explore worlds desperately.
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I felt like 3D's worlds were better designed for exploration thanks to Flowmotion. They're were big and fun to move around and awarded exploring with chests. Not the best it could be and some worlds were still dull, but it was step in right direction. Fantasia's world is a fav.
 
Pankratous said:
I preferred the second one. Haven't bothered playing the handheld games because I refuse to play games that should be full-sized console games on a handheld... though I will give in and play Birth By Sleep on KH 2.5.
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Chain of Memories is on PS2.
 
Crossing Eden said:
I stopped taking the story seriously when it was revealed that
apparently nobodies in organization 13 had hearts after all
that's just complete nonsense.
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That's also an incorrect reading of the scenario.

The idea is that Nobodies, through trying to find a sense of identity, will wind up actually reconstructing their sense of self through the connections they make to other people. This causes them to basically have hearts. Xehanort's plan was to make a bunch of Nobodies who were totally loyal to him first and foremost, which would cause them all to basically assimilate his heart and become his other selves.

Not convoluted at all. In fact, it gives incredible context to the significance of Nobodies in general.
 
MasterBalls said:
Aaargh WHY DIDN'T THEY USE HELLFIRE. There was a fan version floating around on YouTube that sounded just like the .midi boss tracks in the first few games, was amazing.
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Thanks, now I've spent the last fifteen minutes listening to Hellfire in different languages again *_*
 
Mecha said:
If I wanted a lighthearted Disney atmosphere I would watch a Disney movie, when I buy a KH game I want KH. Disney helps make Kingdom Hearts what it is, but Kingdom Hearts is its own thing.



Days made the plot twist not surprising at all.
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Yes it does. Because
for some reason they fade away when they die, why in the world do they just fade away if they die when no other human character does that? Besides, how could they not know? It's a heart of all things. And then there's the characterization, apparently they imitate what they think humans act like based on their memories as humans, yet their humans all along. Not to mention the fact that they're born with no emotion.
It makes zero sense and is super convoluted.
 
Crossing Eden said:
Yes it does. Because
for some reason they fade away when they die, why in the world do they just fade away if they die when no other human character does that? Besides, how could they not know? It's a heart of all things. And then there's the characterization, apparently they imitate what they think humans act like based on their memories as humans, yet their humans all along. Not to mention the fact that they're born with no emotion.
It makes zero sense and is super convoluted.
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They are still nobodies, they aren't the same as Sora and Riku, I mean they even go back to their human bodies in 3D.
 
LegendofLex said:
That's also an incorrect reading of the scenario.

The idea is that Nobodies, through trying to find a sense of identity, will wind up actually reconstructing their sense of self through the connections they make to other people. This causes them to basically have hearts. Xehanort's plan was to make a bunch of Nobodies who were totally loyal to him first and foremost, which would cause them all to basically assimilate his heart and become his other selves.

Not convoluted at all. In fact, it gives incredible context to the significance of Nobodies in general.
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What you just described is the epitome of convoluted. Do you think you could explain this to someone who's not a fan of the series and that they would be like "Yep got it, that's a pretty simple plot."
 
In the first you have to pay a bit more attention to the combat: positioning and adjusting your skills. And there's much more exploration. That and there's more Disney fan service.

In KH2 you mash X and press triangle every now and again with a droning anime storyline and barren environments. I couldn't abide the simplification.

It's ME2 to RPG fans who loved ME. Although I like ME2 more.
 
Crossing Eden said:
What you just described is the epitome of convoluted. Do you think you could explain this to someone who's not a fan of the series and that they would be like "Yep got it, that's a pretty simple plot."
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So you are saying that someone would be confused of you explained a technical aspect to a series plot to them when they don't follow said series? That sounds unheard of.
 
Crossing Eden said:
What you just described is the epitome of convoluted. Do you think you could explain this to someone who's not a fan of the series and that they would be like "Yep got it, that's a pretty simple plot."
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Because some form of complexity or subtlety is a bad thing?
 
dlauv said:
In the first you have to pay a bit more attention to the combat: positioning and adjusting your skills. And there's much more exploration. That and there's more Disney fan service.

In KH2 you mash X and press triangle every now and again with a droning anime storyline and barren environments. I couldn't abide the simplification.

It's ME2 to RPG fans who loved ME. Although I like ME2 more.
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Kingdom Hearts II Final Mix fixes every issue you just mentioned and more. It has entire new areas to explore, more abilites, new bosses, a new difficulty mode, new collectibles, new sidequests, it obliterates the first one in quality and makes vanilla Kingdom Hearts 2 obsolete.
 
I'm of the exact opposite opinion. I was hooked in because of FF cameo, and the more the story deviates away from Disney the more I like it. In fact once I realised I can skip whole cutscenes in KH2 which had no relevance to the actual story and was only Disney filler I started skipping those scenes.

Oh and BBS FM is the best.
 
Crossing Eden said:
Let's not pretend like KH is subtle in anyway shape or form. There's a difference between complex and convoluted.
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I'm not arguing that, but criticizing it just because someone who doesn't really follow the series might not get it (without expending a little mental effort) doesn't seem fair.
 
Soriku said:
I'm not arguing that, but criticizing it just because someone who doesn't really follow the series might not get it (without expending a little mental effort) doesn't seem fair.
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Most people who refer to it as convoluted are only repeating others.
 
While I do love KH 1 a lot, I still fall on KH II being my favorite of the series. I know a lot of people have dumped on them but I absolutely adored the QTEs during the game and how flashy some of them were like when you fight the Heartless boss in the Beauty and the Beast area and one of the QTE is hopping up on the chandelier and swinging it into the boss or another that comes later when you fight Samurai Nobodies and the QTE with them is mini game where you both assume that classic swordsmen stance and time slows and you must choose the correct input.

Not to mention the other party members you get actually have an impact in battle along with the summons whereas in the first I had no reason to use the temp. party member or summons because they were vastly inferior to Goofy and Donald not to mention the second made me feel as though I had a bit more control over Goofy and Donald's actions.
 
botty said:
Most people who refer to it as convoluted are only repeating others.
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Come on now, nobody should be under any delusions about how convoluted Kingdom Hearts has become, trying to explain anything to an outsider from 2 onwards is an exercise in futility.

Even veterans need to visit wiki pages to fully understand parts of the current saga.

It's still hugely entertaining and has an enormous cast of some of the most endearing characters ever and if you get invested enough, the story does eventually make sense.
 
Soriku said:
I'm not arguing that, but criticizing it just because someone who doesn't really follow the series might not get it (without expending a little mental effort) doesn't seem fair.
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That's the thing is that it doesn't take "a little mental effort" to understand the convoluted story. Saying that KH's overall plot hasn't become convoluted is like saying that MGS isn't convoluted. If you were to explain the plot of the first game to someone it'd be simple
"A boy who lives on an island gets transported to a different world and has to rescue seven princesses and also his two best friends from the forces of evil known as the heartless with the help of his three friends, Donald, Goofy, and Jiminy Cricket aswell as his trusty weapon, the keyblade."
^ Simple story, basic hero journey, no convoluted plot, no confusing villains, no
time travel
, no characters that apparently
can just bring themselves back to life by remembering what they were like as humans while also having hearts but not being able to tell, no characters composed purely of memories
Now compare that to the sequels adding more and more fat to the plot. And adding so many characters and antagonists. It's ridiculous. Any writer who knows anything about storytelling would tell you that it's convoluted.
 
Betty said:
Come on now, nobody should be under any delusions about how convoluted Kingdom Hearts has become, trying to explain anything to an outsider from 2 onwards is an exercise in futility.

Even veterans need to visit wiki pages to fully understand parts of the current saga.

It's still hugely entertaining and has an enormous cast of some of the most endearing characters ever and if you get invested enough, the story does eventually make sense.
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Yes, but this applies to most RPGs lol. It's just that Kingdom Hearts always takes the heat for this as if it invented bat-shit-insane-what-the-fuck-is-going-on-JRPG-story
 
KH2 plays like Dynasty Warriors, if Dynasty Warriors took place in the best hallways ever.

There is no complexity to combat, no complexity to the environments, just running down different sets of (beautiful) hallways mashing buttons.

The only complexity is in the plot, which is because you need supplementary material to know who half the characters are, or make sense of their nonsense. Not only does it become needlessly convoluted, but any of that interesting interaction or exploration is gone and youre left with... with the animated spinoff series on the Disney Channel where the worlds start to lose some of their charm.

"Heartless" (lol) Dynasty Warriors spinoffs.

Kingdom Hearts II also has the privilege of being one of the few games where Ive fallen asleep "playing"- the Jafar fight was so boring I fell asleep for a couple hours and woke up to finish it, having no idea what I was even doing. Most of the game feels like filler.
 
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