• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
  • Hey Guest. Check out the NeoGAF 2.2 Update Thread for details on our new Giphy integration and other new features.

The future of stealth is in plain sight, but will triple A games use it or make generic stealth systems like always

Should single-player stealth games learn from online multiplayer games?

  • Tarkov is the light, and future stealth games need to follow it.

    Votes: 2 18.2%
  • Online multiplayer won't translate to single-player games that easily, don't see it working.

    Votes: 3 27.3%
  • Games that use crawling around in tall grass as stealth sections is the worst.

    Votes: 3 27.3%
  • I love those missions where you walk after a character, and if he sees you, the mission restarts.

    Votes: 1 9.1%
  • Triple A studios are too risk averse to change major systems, they will do what they always do.

    Votes: 1 9.1%
  • I can't stand stealth, in any form whatsoever.

    Votes: 1 9.1%

  • Total voters
    11

Bragr

Member
Jun 24, 2020
606
1,140
390
Escape From Tarkov features the most intense feeling of suspense I ever come across in a non-horror game, always making you feel like you are on a knife's edge. This is the future of stealth, not systems like "stealth kills grants extra XP or one-shot choking kills from the back". Tarkov makes you feel like you are carrying 100k in your back pocket, making you think there might be someone ready to steal it behind every corner.

Sometimes you sit still for 3 minutes because you thought you heard a footstep. Sometimes you shot at someone, but they hide behind a tree and you can't quite see them, you wait 2 minutes, crawl over there only to find the person is gone, making you paranoid in case he might be watching you right now from some other place. It's incredibly exhilarating, unlike most stealth in games that come down to a waiting game.

Games need to figure out how to incorporate this type of stuff into single-player stealth games, this is the most organic and natural stealth has ever been in a long time. You have similar stuff in Battle Royale games, where you instantly get tense when you hear someone walking in the room next to you or whatever.

You need to have a cost, you need to want to stay stealthy (in Tarkov, it's the loot, in Battle Royale, your placement, in From Software games, your souls and level progression).

However, in Splinter Cell, Metal Gear, Dishonored, whatever, there is no other cost to failing stealth than either go into a gunbattle or just reload the checkpoint.

Am I the only one who plays games like Tarkov, Vigor, or some Battle Royale and feel that stealth is on a whole other level in these games compared to classical stealth games?

 

Al3x1s

Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
Nov 24, 2018
5,361
4,827
675
That sounds like next gen camping and not unlike what one has to do in any good FPS in terms of tactics, skills and knowledge of the area and what not, it just happens in a split second in the classics and over many minutes of nothing as you describe here. Why are you comparing PVP to single player, what would a single player game do to punish you like Tarkov, wipe your save and have you redo the whole story/all levels considering they're all narrative and progression driven games rather than constant repeats of a map in deathmatch or battle royale or whatever casuals and kids call it nowadays? What a retarded argument. That's like hailing Ultima Online or Eve Online as the best RPGs and what all RPGs should ever aspire to be just because other players can screw you over, as if they can be compared directly to Baldur's Gate or Planescape: Torment. Tarkov is nice if you like PVP (and janky pieces of shit like all its predecessors like DayZ) but other than that stealth was great with the likes of Thief and devs aren't making much of that either (even MGS appears dead & only V had the only consequence being combat, are you 12yo?) though at least Hitman is back.
 
Last edited:
Jun 23, 2020
2,433
4,429
425
Just make the game so it doesn't allow save scumming. Problem solved.

And if you also remove things like enemies displayed on the mini-map (Deus Ex) or being able to see through walls (Dishonored), even better.
 

Nemesis Prime

Member
Feb 15, 2018
535
479
355
I need to try this game to get an idea of what you’re talking about. I’m a huge stealth fan but I feel stealth in modern gaming is in the mud.

I don’t understand why all games feel the need to have an all out combat option as well, especially a game like dishonored 2. Assassins creed is like that now as well, the only reason I play either of those games through pure stealth is because I enjoy it. But it makes everything take much longer when you can just go brain dead and blast everyone in the way.

stealth games need to make combat more difficult and dangerous, making you feel like you should opt for stealth always.

thief 2 is one of my favorite shakes of all time, and they do it right. Huge open sprawling levels, so many ways to approach an area, lots of secrets and hidden paths and levers and buttons you can use. Huge focus on darkness and hiding in corners and shadows. Best of all, combat is very difficult and it isn’t wise to fight, better to run away instead.
 

Warablo

Member
May 15, 2013
2,529
557
650
Yeah, Escape From Tarkov is the scariest and tense game I ever played, and its not even a horror game. You thought you heard something so you sit still trying to listen, always think someone is watching. Think someone is behind every corner. Distance gun shots giving you the startles. Shots raining down on you giving you the startles. Hearing feet shuffles in a building and having to clear it room by room.

I don't think the tenseness will translate as well into single player.

I will say they need to do something about sound limits though. Pretty sure this game gave me tinnitus in one ear.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Twinguistics

MarkMe2525

Member
Jul 16, 2017
1,190
1,462
445
35
Why are you comparing PVP to single player, like what would a single player game do to punish you like Tarkov, wipe your save? Retarded argument. Like hailing Ultima Online or Eve Online as the best RPG because other players can screw you over as if they compare to Baldur's Gate. Tarkov is nice if you like janky pieces of shit and PVP but other than that stealth was great with the likes of Thief already and it's not like devs are making much of that either these days (hell, even MGS appears dead and it's only V that had the only consequence being a firefight, are you 12yo or what?).
A response like this to someone trying to start a conversation about a game/mechanic he/she likes is "retarded" and makes you look like you're 12.

In response to the op, the lack of progress in enemy ai has really held stealth back IMO. Maybe with the launch of the new consoles, devs will have more freedom to focus on this area to allow enemy AI to feel more organic.
 
  • Like
  • LOL
Reactions: Husky and Al3x1s

Bragr

Member
Jun 24, 2020
606
1,140
390
That sounds like next gen camping and not unlike what one has to do in any good FPS in terms of tactics, skills and knowledge of the area and what not, it just happens in a split second in the classics and over many minutes of nothing as you describe here. Why are you comparing PVP to single player, what would a single player game do to punish you like Tarkov, wipe your save and have you redo the whole story/all levels considering they're all narrative and progression driven games rather than constant repeats of a map in deathmatch or battle royale or whatever casuals and kids call it nowadays? What a retarded argument. That's like hailing Ultima Online or Eve Online as the best RPGs and what all RPGs should ever aspire to be just because other players can screw you over, as if they can be compared directly to Baldur's Gate or Planescape: Torment. Tarkov is nice if you like PVP (and janky pieces of shit like all its predecessors like DayZ) but other than that stealth was great with the likes of Thief and devs aren't making much of that either (even MGS appears dead & only V had the only consequence being combat, are you 12yo?) though at least Hitman is back.
Have you played Tarkov?
 

D3SCHA1N

Member
Nov 13, 2017
382
360
335
Escape From Tarkov features the most intense feeling of suspense I ever come across in a non-horror game, always making you feel like you are on a knife's edge. This is the future of stealth, not systems like "stealth kills grants extra XP or one-shot choking kills from the back". Tarkov makes you feel like you are carrying 100k in your back pocket, making you think there might be someone ready to steal it behind every corner.

Sometimes you sit still for 3 minutes because you thought you heard a footstep. Sometimes you shot at someone, but they hide behind a tree and you can't quite see them, you wait 2 minutes, crawl over there only to find the person is gone, making you paranoid in case he might be watching you right now from some other place. It's incredibly exhilarating, unlike most stealth in games that come down to a waiting game. ....

Sounds kinda like Tarkov is just as much of a waiting game... I get just as annoyed having to play through the same section twice as losing some loot, so the motivation to stay in stealth is still there and personally I prefer systems that reward stealth gameplay rather than punish failing it... increased XP and loot for capturing an outpost undetected in Far Cry for example...
 
  • Like
Reactions: Al3x1s