It's certainly bizarre so many people in this thread decrying this as manufactured controversy, when not two weeks ago we had not one, but two enormous threads about people losing their shit that Fallout 4's graphics are kinda OK but not that great.
I mean we have huge outrage threads at least once a month about something or another, but when talking about diversity in gaming culture whoo boy, that's REALLY what gets people to wave the "manufactured controversy!" flag.
Who cares. All that matters is their industry experience.
If they're qualified critics, I see little issue. There could be 32 women and that would be fine.
I'm a bit late, but can anyone point me in the direction of where one would go to qualify as a game critic?
It's kind of sad we can have more empathy for inanimate technical things like graphics or framerates but can't deal with other humans.
People who just post that they disagree is still valid criticism/opinion. If that's what you getting at.
Agreed. I don't care what sex or ethnicity they are, I just want some fair judgement on great games!
It would be worse to throw in people that aren't qualified just to have diversity.
If they're qualified critics, I see little issue. There could be 32 women and that would be fine.
If they're qualified critics, I see little issue. There could be 32 women and that would be fine.
Well pretty much this. I see nothing wrong for have more guys than girls on a game jury if they were chosen by their qualification. I see something wrong if woman are picked just because they are woman.
In brain surgery, yes (although, at some point age will catch up to them and nullify the experience advantage).
In evaluating an art product? Fuck no. A broad perspective will trump a "specialized narrow one" in this case. The composition matters, as does the member knowledge, of course.
According to this, 9 out of 10 registered nurses are female...
http://uk.businessinsider.com/pink-collar-jobs-dominated-by-women-2015-2?r=US&IR=T
If they had to select a panel of nurses would people lose their shit if the majority were female? No, that's just the way it is, it's currently skewed one way and there's no point trying to force a 50/50 selection. And it's currently the same with games jounalists, even if we don't like it that way. Get over it.
According to this, 9 out of 10 registered nurses are female...
http://uk.businessinsider.com/pink-collar-jobs-dominated-by-women-2015-2?r=US&IR=T
If they had to select a panel of nurses would people lose their shit if the majority were female? No, that's just the way it is, it's currently skewed one way and there's no point trying to force a 50/50 selection. And it's currently the same with games jounalists, even if we don't like it that way. Get over it.
This 'qualified' talk is complete bollocks. The only possible qualifications required are having played the nominated games and being able to put your thoughts into words. A child could do it.
Women make up for 48% of the industry's consumer base, though.
Unless you're gonna including super casual games like cell phone games (Candy Crush) that my 10 year old nieces play that number has to be way off.
Nice way of trying to twist my argument, well done. I'm not saying it's a good thing, far from it as there should be more female games journalists but sadly there aren't right now. But when you have an industry that is dominated by one gender, trying to force a panel of 50/50 makes no sense.They should encourage more diversity in their profession and promoting the opinion of the minority within would be a start.
"It's just the way it is" and "get over it" sound like the perfect way to change gender and diversity discrepancies though.
Who cares. All that matters is their industry experience.
Nice way of trying to twist my argument, well done. I'm not saying it's a good thing, far from it as there should be more female games journalists but sadly there aren't right now. But when you have an industry that is dominated by one gender, trying to force a panel of 50/50 makes no sense.
If they're qualified critics, I see little issue. There could be 32 women and that would be fine.
What kind of qualification is needed to do this job, making it necessary for 94% of the jurors to be male?
Nice way of trying to twist my argument, well done. I'm not saying it's a good thing, far from it as there should be more female games journalists but sadly there aren't right now. But when you have an industry that is dominated by one gender, trying to force a panel of 50/50 makes no sense.
Yeah, and they're also called out for drive-by shitposting (and in several cases bans occur). And the arguments in those threads still continue despite that.
I should also point out several, erm, "popular" threads are outrage threads whenever a developer chooses to alter overly sexualized animations/textures/etc. of female characters, almost always being called "censorship". The point is, GAF has plenty of outrage threads (even ones that promote/defend shitty depictions of women) about TRULY pointless shit and they march along just fine, but threads like this have people trying to stifle the discussion at every corner.
Women make up for 48% of the industry's consumer base, though.
Exactly. What are these so-called "qualifications" people keep going on about? Don't people always complain that Game Awards judging is always a joke?
...... why?
Are we counting Candy Crush in this? Last time I saw an EVO event, I didn't see 50% women competing or in attendance. Last time I went to a Gamestop, I didn't see 50% women in line or checking out the games shelves. The last time I went to an indie game developer meet up in my local area, I didn't see 50% women showing off their latest builds. The last time I talked with a female at my job about videogames she told me she used to play Super Mario Kart on SNES and hasn't touched a game since. I can't bump into a guy at work who hasn't at least played the latest Madden or Call of Duty or isn't super excited about Fall Out 4."Valid" in what way? That's it's an opinion? Well yes, but it doesn't go much beyond that. People being aggressive that this is getting brought up and shouting that there's no problem? That's an opinion too, albeit a problematic one, and one that actually perpetuates the problem. Mind you, the drive-by posts aren't actually discussing anything, so they're not really anything worth defending.
It's as if people don't realize that the disparity itself is what can perpetuate the problem in the first place. Once any status quo is established it becomes an enormous task to see any change to it.
Since you bring up "women dominating industries", you may notice that journalism is an incredibly popular career choice for women, and nearly half of the gaming industry's consumer base is women. And yet gaming journalism just so happens to be a bizarre combination that incidentally results in being comprised of almost exclusively men...and there's nothing worth discussing about that...right...
Because it's a male dominated hobby. I've been close to the industry for over 15 years, I see the people who buy/play the kinda games the Video Game Awards are showcasing. I would say that more and more women/girls are getting into gaming now, but not almost half.
I disagreeNo.
No it's not.
You can't just enter a conversation, make a completely hostile comment with obviously no regard to the context, and then just leave.
Opinions are only valid in discussion if you actually want to discuss.
Because it's a male dominated hobby. I've been close to the industry for over 15 years, I see the people who buy/play the kinda games the Video Game Awards are showcasing. I would say that more and more women/girls are getting into gaming now, but not almost half.
Because it's a male dominated hobby.
Pick the best journos for the job, if that's 32 women then fine, if that's 32 men then fine.
Because it's a male dominated hobby. I've been close to the industry for over 15 years, I see the people who buy/play the kinda games the Video Game Awards are showcasing. I would say that more and more women/girls are getting into gaming now, but not almost half.
1. Can we draft Kat Bailey on board? She's played Bloodborne, MGS V, The Witcher 3 and going to play Fallout 4 and probably going to play Mario Marker.
If you want anecdotes, the only local friend I know owns an actual NES/SNES is a woman. The only friends I remember talking about, playing, and being excited about, Fallout 4 on my Facebook feed are women. One of them was talking about a new exploit they found involving companions. I don't know any guy friends who have been talking about that.Are we counting Candy Crush in this? Last time I saw an EVO event, I didn't see 50% women competing or in attendance. Last time I went to a Gamestop, I didn't see 50% women in line or checking out the games shelves. The last time I went to an indie game developer meet up in my local area, I didn't see 50% women showing off their latest builds. The last time I talked with a female at my job about videogames she told me she used to play Super Mario Kart on SNES and hasn't touched a game since. I can't bump into a guy at work who hasn't at least played the latest Madden or Call of Duty or isn't super excited about Fall Out 4.
And there are definitely more than 30 male journalists. Your point? There is currently a huge majority, which is the sad truth.You weren't saying it was a good thing you were belittling the issue. There are definitely more female journalists than 2.
And there are definitely more than 30 male journalists. Your point? There is currently a huge majority, which is the sad truth.
Are we counting Candy Crush in this? Last time I saw an EVO event, I didn't see 50% women competing or in attendance. Last time I went to a Gamestop, I didn't see 50% women in line or checking out the games shelves. The last time I went to an indie game developer meet up in my local area, I didn't see 50% women showing off their latest builds. The last time I talked with a female at my job about videogames she told me she used to play Super Mario Kart on SNES and hasn't touched a game since. I can't bump into a guy at work who hasn't at least played the latest Madden or Call of Duty or isn't super excited about Fall Out 4.
I'm not saying that I don't know a few gamers who happen to be women, but where are all these gamer chicks you guys keep talking about that are supposedly falling out of the sky?
And I'm not saying I'm not for equality either, but it seems like some people are trying to force something that isn't there. Just because journalism is a profession that has a good mix of both sexes doesn't mean that all journalists are qualified to, or even interested in writing about games.
Are we counting Candy Crush in this? Last time I saw an EVO event, I didn't see 50% women competing or in attendance. Last time I went to a Gamestop, I didn't see 50% women in line or checking out the games shelves. The last time I went to an indie game developer meet up in my local area, I didn't see 50% women showing off their latest builds. The last time I talked with a female at my job about videogames she told me she used to play Super Mario Kart on SNES and hasn't touched a game since. I can't bump into a guy at work who hasn't at least played the latest Madden or Call of Duty or isn't super excited about Fall Out 4.
I'm not saying that I don't know a few gamers who happen to be women, but where are all these gamer chicks you guys keep talking about that are supposedly falling out of the sky?
And I'm not saying I'm not for equality either, but it seems like some people are trying to force something that isn't there. Just because journalism is a profession that has a good mix of both sexes doesn't mean that all journalists are qualified to, or even interested in writing about games.
To argue that the numerous female game journalists out-there lack the "qualifications" (whatever those may be in whatever vague way you're arguing) is just absurd. People aren't forcing what isn't there. People are trying to wake people up to the reality of this community in the first place and many are desiring to fight against that because of their boy's club mentalities.
That's not what he's arguing. He's saying, that not all journalists are good at writing about games.
Not exactly surprising. I think we can suppose most game journalists are men (do we have real stats?) so a random sample of them will give you a mostly-men jury list.
..................In reference to a topic about the lack of female journalist representation on this jury panel. It's very much what they were arguing. That the journalists lack the qualifications. You are literally saying that he is arguing what I read he argued.