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[snatches]

Chill, Gidget! I'm not out to attack you, not at all. I just thought your comments were ridiculously absolute statements that were all in YOUR own opinion, which as most message board posters know should be marked as such.

YOU think: "NES, SNES, and N64 library >>>>>>> PSone library"

YOU think: "saying a mouse can do what the revmote can do is not just wrong, it's ignorant."

Not everybody thinks that. Some, maybe most, but not all.

*SIGHS* Clearly you are still afraid to justify your statements. I guess the three months you have spent as a member here don't give you enough backbone to explain why in your opinion, a mouse is a suitable replacement for a revmote.....the saga continues.....

 

[PkunkFury]

It is a little disappointing we didn't get to see more of the Revmote. People still keep saying things in this thread like "the Revmote can track position in 3D space" that are both technically implausible (in that it is hard to think of how such a depth sensor would be built) and socially implausible (in that if such a device existed it would probably be used by neurosurgical residencies before videogame consoles.)

It highlights that we really don't publicly know what the Revmote tracks other than the obvious yaw and possibly pitch and roll - it may just roughly track some acceleration in the z-coordinate, for example. But those details will make a big difference in how we will play games.

We have been told it is a 6DOF device countless times, multiple devices like this exist already (many for under 50$), and some have indeed been tested with neurosurgical residencies (in fact they've been used in medicine for well more than a decade). We've had tons of threads on the revmote in the past, with links and real discussion. There is really no reason to insist it is the same as a mouse, why else would it need sensor bars, and how would you account for the description of the hands on games?

Case in point

Please bump one of the old threads if you want to get into this. I don't think the rest of the forum wants to see me geek out about tracking technology again. Or you could save yourself the time and google 6 DOF devices. This isn't some sort of magic technology, it's actually very old. I'm sure you know what motion capture is... you can track 6 DOF using the same principles if you like

 

[xaosslug]

*SIGHS* Clearly you are still afraid to justify your statements. I guess the three months you have spent as a member here don't give you enough backbone to explain why in your opinion, a mouse is a suitable replacement for a revmote.....the saga continues.....

Now that's a fallback defensive statement if I've ever read one. *claps* :lol

Maybe, I'm just too lazy?

 

[Raistlin]

.

 

[snatches]

Now that's a fallback defensive statement if I've ever read one. *claps* :lol

Maybe, I'm just too lazy?

Maybe you came into this thread to annoy people, not to have an intelligent discussion and back up your own statements. Keep digging that hole.

 

[Mike Works]

Chill, Gidget! I'm not out to attack you, not at all. I just thought your comments were ridiculously absolute statements that were all in YOUR own opinion, which as most message board posters know should be marked as such.

YOU think: "NES, SNES, and N64 library >>>>>>> PSone library"

YOU think: "saying a mouse can do what the revmote can do is not just wrong, it's ignorant."

Not everybody thinks that. Some, maybe most, but not all.

Anyone who thinks the PSone library is better than the NES, SNES, and N64 libraries combined shouldn't be on their computer right now.

They should be in a hospital.

In the retard ward.

 

[snatches]

Anyone who thinks the PSone library is better than the NES, SNES, and N64 libraries combined shouldn't be on their computer right now.

They should be in a hospital.

In the retard ward.

:lol

 

[GDGF]

I had no idea that the Virtual Console was going to end up so freaking awesome. Nintendo fan and all, so I was hyped by the classic aspect of course, but being an old school Sega fan (16 bit gen, anyway) and secretly envious of my old gradeschool buddies Turbografx -16 games...well, I am totally freaking psyched. Hopefully Ninja Spirits will be available. And Military Madness (hell, hopefully we'll see Herzog Zwei from the Genny side)

New indie games available through the VC is fantastic as well. Hell, since devkits are only two grand or so, maybe we'll see some Gaming-Agers put their wares up for sale

Awesome news.

 

[Amir0x]

Anyone who thinks the PSone library is better than the NES, SNES, and N64 libraries combined shouldn't be on their computer right now.

They should be in a hospital.

In the retard ward.

I think the PS2 and PSOne libraries combined are better than SNES, NES and N64 libraries combined. Because I hate almost all NES games, and N64 was a joke account system. Add Gamecube to this, though, and I think it's even.

 

[xaosslug]

Maybe you came into this thread to annoy people, not to have an intelligent discussion and back up your own statements. Keep digging that hole.

TBH, I came into this thread to read what happened @ GDC, but your post(s) made me reply.

Anyone who thinks the PSone library is better than the NES, SNES, and N64 libraries combined shouldn't be on their computer right now.

They should be in a hospital.

In the retard ward.

:lol

In your opinion. Call me crazy, but I really enjoyed Jet Moto (and 2), Xenogears, FFVII, FFVIII, Parasite Eve, Resident Evil 2, Jumping Jack Flash and Soul Reaver when I played them... ::shrug::

 

[antipode]

We have been told it is a 6DOF device countless times, multiple devices like this exist already, and some have indeed been tested with neurosurgical residencies (in fact they've been used in medicine for well more than a decade). We've had tons of threads on the revmote in the past, with links and real discussion. There is really no reason to insist it is the same as a mouse, why else would it need sensor bars, and how would you account for the description of the hands on games?

I'm not saying it's the same as a mouse. I'm saying that none of the demos tracked the Revmote in depth (move the controller away from the screen) and that it's not possible to the degree of inches. We've discussed it before, people have claimed it's possible, and no-one has given an example. I can point you to academic papers that show that it hasn't been done yet. Alot of them have to do with detecting distances to objects for robots. Among the best is ultrasound with Relate:

http://ubicomp.lancs.ac.uk/fileadmin/publications/2006-ewsn.pdf

But with a range of 2m (to short for videogames) they can only track distance to roughly 4 inches. It's just a really hard problem.

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

YOU think: "saying a mouse can do what the revmote can do is not just wrong, it's ignorant."

Not everybody thinks that. Some, maybe most, but not all.

The revmote's capabilities are a superset of a mouse's. It's objective fact.

What if Rev is $299.99 and not $199.99?

If the Revolution launches at $299 (not counting some second option with extras), I will eat a broom. If the people who've had greater access to the hardware and information about it are guessing at a $150-200 launch price, and the controller is so costly as to cause a $299 price, then... what, are they going to sell separate controllers for $100 apiece?

 

[dirtmonkey37]

I think the PS2 and PSOne libraries combined are better than SNES, NES and N64 libraries combined. Because I hate almost all NES games, and N64 was a joke account system. Add Gamecube to this, though, and I think it's even.

I don't know about that. I myself would probably agree (because the only SNES games I've played are mario and some other stuff that kind of sucked) but not when the N64 is there.


Thanks to Rare, the N64 has some of the best games ever. Without Rare, I would probably agree with your statement that NES, SNES, and the N64 don't have as many good games as the PS1 and PS2 library.

 

[snatches]

I'm not saying it's the same as a mouse. I'm saying that none of the demos tracked the Revmote in depth (move the controller away from the screen) and that it's not possible to the degree of inches. We've discussed it before, people have claimed it's possible, and no-one has given an example. I can point you to academic papers that show that it hasn't been done yet. Alot of them have to do with detecting distances to objects for robots. Among the best is ultrasound with Relate:

http://ubicomp.lancs.ac.uk/fileadmin/publications/2006-ewsn.pdf

But with a range of 2m (to short for videogames) they can only track distance to roughly 4 inches. It's just a really hard problem.

This is impressions from 1up from one of the demos at TGS:

DEMO: GONE FISHIN'
Grab a pole and lower it into a 3D pond full of fish. Keep the line steady and when you feel a nibble from the rumble of the controller, pull it up quick!
IMPRESSIONS: An interesting showcase of the controller's 3D movement detection-you position the fishing pole above the pond by moving the controller forward or back, left or right in actual space, then lowered the hook by lowering the controller. It was a bit difficult to keep it steady in the water, but flipping the controller up when you got a bite, mimicking the motion of pulling up a fish in reel life, was a little thrill that just felt right.

 

[Amir0x]

I don't know about that. I myself would probably agree (because the only SNES games I've played are mario and some other stuff that kind of sucked) but not when the N64 is there.


Thanks to Rare, the N64 has some of the best games ever. Without Rare, I would probably agree with your statement that NES, SNES, and the N64 don't have as many good games as the PS1 and PS2 library.

N64 was a disasterous system that Nintendo should frankly be embarrassed about. But I understand people's almost magnetic attraction to it: it gave us Mario 64, it gave us Zelda: Ocarina of Time/Majora's Mask. Unfortunately, the system had a total of 10 games I ever cared about, and imo the RARE games were really lame games (Blast Corps and Jet Force Gemini exceptions... I hated Banjo Kazooie 1/2, Killer Instinct and DKC64. I can't play Goldeneye or Perfect Dark, because their framerates make me cry). It was a wasteland, devoid of development support and substantive variety.

But yeah, I understand the connection people have with it.

PSOne had like 50 times the quality content.

 

[jarrod]

Supporting the Rev alone would be financial suicide for an indie developer, considering the history of Nintendo hardware and where software sales come from.

I'd say the notable success of relative small tier niche brands like Harvest Moon, Monkey Ball, Viewtiful Joe, Mr Driller or Ikaruga on Nintendo machines paint a different picture. They're not exactly "indie" games but they're pretty close... but as for actual indie games, Alien Hominid did more business on GameCube versus PS2/Xbox. There's definitely a hungry market for this sort of stuff on Nintendo platforms.

 

[sonycowboy]

OK.

So I've been out of touch all today. What's the general concensus here at GAF on:

1) Microsoft's showing

2) Sony's showing

3) Nintendo's showing

Was all that was really announced for Nintendo Sega & Turbographics and a new Zelda?

And by showing I mean announcements, overall impact, etc. Not necessarily literally things that were shown.

 

[antipode]

Please bump one of the old threads if you want to get into this. I don't think the rest of the forum wants to see me geek out about tracking technology again. Or you could save yourself the time and google 6 DOF devices. This isn't some sort of magic technology, it's actually very old. I'm sure you know what motion capture is... you can track 6 DOF using the same principles if you like

Maybe you can just pick one and we can discuss why it won't work for the revmote? There are all sorts of devices with all sorts of limitations on accuracy, distance, refresh rate, etc. which is why they are not good for a precise Revmote depth sensor (much less a gamma knife-type thing.)

The closest I think are ultrasound. Remember that for ultrasound devices - the speed of sound is around 335 m/s, so in 1/60th of a second it can only travel 5.6 m to begin with, which would put alot of constraints on using sound for console video games.

 

[Chrono]

so sad. :'(


no rev info at all. sega on virtual console? eh, everybody guessed that. new ds zelda - this year? is that a twilight princess delay in disguise? ;_;


so sick of this, so tired. matt says we'll actually see rev games before e3 but it doesn't look like it. maybe he just means like just a few days before e3. =\


wouldn't be surprised if nintendo only shows a bunch of gameplay tech demos at e3 and maybe mario + 3/4 cooking/brain training/made-in-2-weeks games.


oh and now we know how all those nintendo franchises will work with a revmote - now it makes perfect sense what ign says about nintendo adding the nunchuck attachment just for western devs. just like zelda ds, we'll control rev mario/zelda like an rts. just point at where you want to go and the character will run/jump to that location. very simple, very nintendo. lame. very, very lame.

 

[antipode]

This is impressions from 1up from one of the demos at TGS:

I remember that (and also a game with a basketball), and it also leaves alot of questions - was the user walking around the room with the Remote so it mapped to 3d space? It didn't sound like it - it's more likely the controller picks up accelerations in the Z-coordinate to map the jerking motion of your hand pulling back the controller to a small imprecise movement in the game.

 

[GDGF]

DEMO: GONE FISHIN'
Grab a pole and lower it into a 3D pond full of fish. Keep the line steady and when you feel a nibble from the rumble of the controller, pull it up quick!
IMPRESSIONS: An interesting showcase of the controller's 3D movement detection-you position the fishing pole above the pond by moving the controller forward or back, left or right in actual space, then lowered the hook by lowering the controller. It was a bit difficult to keep it steady in the water, but flipping the controller up when you got a bite, mimicking the motion of pulling up a fish in reel life, was a little thrill that just felt right.

I think the airplane demo did this as well.

 

[Raistlin]

I'm going to refrain from getting excited about the Revolution emus until we get some answers on pricing.


If it's expensive, aside from the few games you can't find ROMs for ... what's the point when you can get it 'for free' on a PC?






Also, I do hope they incorporate some of the features we see on PC emulators ... selectable graphics effects, built in game genie/shark codes, etc.

 

[PkunkFury]

I'm not saying it's the same as a mouse. I'm saying that none of the demos tracked the Revmote in depth (move the controller away from the screen) and that it's not possible to the degree of inches. We've discussed it before, people have claimed it's possible, and no-one has given an example. I can point you to academic papers that show that it hasn't been done yet. Alot of them have to do with detecting distances to objects for robots. Among the best is ultrasound with Relate:

http://ubicomp.lancs.ac.uk/fileadmin/publications/2006-ewsn.pdf

But with a range of 2m (to short for videogames) they can only track distance to roughly 4 inches. It's just a really hard problem.

I'm in the lab right now so I don't have time to read through the paper you linked, but glancing through the first part it seems you are referring to a wireless tracking network implemented in a warehouse, which likely uses RFIDs or some form of other wirelss tracking nodes to mark the objects that they are interested in, and tracks their location in a room. The paper describes a "net" of ultrasound nodes which are aware of one another's position in 3D space, and I gather they are using these nodes to detect when the RFID objects enter their detection radius, thus each node is aware of the # of RFIDs in its reach and can transmit that it has "found" an ID within the warehouse. I've seen many papers like this before, it is similar to how they want to track mobile phones and people with RFID tags. It's a lot different than tracking the small volume in front of a TV set, plus it does not require line of sight like the rev remote will.

I work in a VR lab and program for devices that track within centimeters in the X, Y, and Z directions every day (usually devices by Intersense and Ascnesion). The stuff I work with is usually high end, but I'm aware of several low end solutions as well (and have used some of them). I'll dig up the links again and apend them to this post in a minute, so check back. Some of the devices include the P5 glove and the Xavos (sp?) sports games, and the new light guns that work on projectors. See also various arcade games that use swords and boxing gloves.

Don't foget, if motion capture didn't accurately track translation in all 3 directions it wouldn't work, so that type of tracking does indeed exist. Mo-cap generally uses infra-red
which can be produced in a cheap and functional manner that works for consumers as well. Also, the ultrasound nodes mentioned in your paper know each others 3D position, this technology is used for tracking as well (see the power glove -- another consumer level device that tracks position in 3 degrees of space, for sale in the 80s no less)

 

[Raistlin]

BTW - While I'm pretty disappointed with the keynote overall ...


... Zelda does look (and sound) damn ace!!!

 

[wonderfuldays]

ZELDA VIDEO

http://www.nintendo-europe.com/NOE/en/GB/news/article.do?elementId=5JIzKiVx5r0Gu_uNPnTPRZMbliXeeJM1

Dreams come true!!!!!

 

[sprsk]

oh and now we know how all those nintendo franchises will work with a revmote - now it makes perfect sense what ign says about nintendo adding the nunchuck attachment just for western devs. just like zelda ds, we'll control rev mario/zelda like an rts. just point at where you want to go and the character will run/jump to that location. very simple, very nintendo. lame. very, very lame.

-_-

 

[antipode]

I work in a VR lab and program for devices that track within centimeters in the X, Y, and Z directions every day (usually devices by Intersense and Ascnesion). The stuff I work with is usually high end, but I'm aware of several low end solutions as well (and have used some of them). I'll dig up the links again and apend them to this post in a minute, so check back. Some of the devices include the P5 glove and the Xavos (sp?) sports games, and the new light guns that work on projectors. See also various arcade games that use swords and boxing gloves.

Don't foget, if motion capture didn't accurately track translation in all 3 directions it wouldn't work, so that type of tracking does indeed exist. Mo-cap generally uses infra-red
which can be produced in a cheap and functional manner that works for consumers as well. Also, the ultrasound nodes mentioned in your paper know each others 3D position, this technology is used for tracking as well (see the power glove)

Well motion capture has the advantage of triangulation (you have cameras corresponding to the axes you're tracking) so that's easy - it's having only the Revmote and the sensors in front of the TV to track depth that makes it a difficult problem.

Do you mean Xavix (the tennis/bowling games they have at BestBuy?) I'm pretty sure those don't track depth, though I haven't played them. I'll check out the P5 glove and the devices you mentioned though.

 

[snatches]

I think the PS2 and PSOne libraries combined are better than SNES, NES and N64 libraries combined. Because I hate almost all NES games, and N64 was a joke account system. Add Gamecube to this, though, and I think it's even.

Wow. What did you do from 1985-1989??

 

[Mike Works]

I think the PS2 and PSOne libraries combined are better than SNES, NES and N64 libraries combined. Because I hate almost all NES games, and N64 was a joke account system. Add Gamecube to this, though, and I think it's even.

Yeah except no one said PS2.

It's PS1 vs NES + SNES + N64

C'mon Amir0x, I know you're Amir0x and all, but you're not THAT dumb!

 

[Mike Works]

OK.

So I've been out of touch all today. What's the general concensus here at GAF on:

1) Microsoft's showing

2) Sony's showing

3) Nintendo's showing

1) Nintendo and Sony online are better than XBox Live

2) Motor Storm and Warhawk are serious downgrades of their E3 presentations and those downgrades look AMAZING!!! oh and they're not using the bananarang controller which no one ever liked

3) PSone is better than NES, SNES, N64, GC, Rev, DS, and PSP (excluding PSone emulated games)

 

[Amir0x]

Wow. What did you do from 1985-1989??

Played NES games. Almost none of which hold up in my view, thus my adjusted viewpoint that almost all of them suck.

Yeah except no one said PS2.

It's PS1 vs NES + SNES + N64

C'mon Amir0x, I know you're Amir0x and all, but you're not THAT dumb!

I didn't insult you, bro. It's pointless to put PS1 against three systems, and vice versa. I was just saying that it's not a far stretch, because two of the systems mentioned completely suck balls.

 

[Mike Works]

How anyone can claim the NES "sucked balls" is beyond me. The NES were the balls that fucking helped create this industry into what it is today.

Yo! Noid > Katamari

 

[PkunkFury]

Well motion capture has the advantage of triangulation (you have cameras corresponding to the axes you're tracking) so that's easy - it's having only the Revmote and the sensors in front of the TV to track depth that makes it a difficult problem.

Do you mean Xavix (the tennis/bowling games they have at BestBuy?) I'm pretty sure those don't track depth, though I haven't played them. I'll check out the P5 glove and the devices you mentioned though.

There are ways of getting depth from two cameras as well. You can even do motion capture with only two cameras, but you'll have lots of occlusion. The P5 glove gets depth using two sensor nodes to detect the glove LEDS. Here's the link of how it's done:

http://www.mts.net/~kbagnall/p5/p5 dissassembly.html

it's one of the many ways to find depth using different tracking devices. We still don't know for sure how the remote is tracked (I'm 90% certain it is infra-red, but I'd love to be surprised), or what configuration the sensor bar is using, but we do know it is tracking three directions.

Really if you need proof that the revmote will track 3 positions, you need look no further than the power glove. It was made in conjunction with Nintendo, and was available 15 years ago. It also was capable of tracking position in all three axis, as well as roll ( I believe the other two rotations weren't tracked). A lot of time has passed and I think they'll manage something that works well enough to catch on this time around.

Edit: and yes I meant Xavix, it's been awhile since I played them but I think they track depth

 

[Future]

N64 was a disasterous system that Nintendo should frankly be embarrassed about. But I understand people's almost magnetic attraction to it: it gave us Mario 64, it gave us Zelda: Ocarina of Time/Majora's Mask. Unfortunately, the system had a total of 10 games I ever cared about, and imo the RARE games were really lame games (Blast Corps and Jet Force Gemini exceptions... I hated Banjo Kazooie 1/2, Killer Instinct and DKC64. I can't play Goldeneye or Perfect Dark, because their framerates make me cry). It was a wasteland, devoid of development support and substantive variety.

But yeah, I understand the connection people have with it.

PSOne had like 50 times the quality content.

N64 had its problems, but it was far from a disaster. During the 32 bit gen things were rough, because the waits for games to release were ridiculously long at the start. But looking at the overall library at the end of the day, there is some good shit there. The best 3d versions of almost all their franchises are on this system, and some of the best 3d games period from that generation. Not gonna bother makin a list cuz lists suck, but quality is there. Going back to PS1 is actually harder for me for most 3d titles, because most of those games look like such a pixelated mess that I can't even get through them.

That said, this Nintendo conference sucked for us. Nice to get a confirmation on the Sega stuff, and PC Engine is a nice bonus. But the Brain Training focus was a drag. Not surprising...E3's Nintendo Keynote consisted of mostly boring ass Nintendogs. Yeah we all know these games are gonna sell millions, show us something fuckin new.

PS3 was a little bit of a let down to me too. We all predicted they'd copy Xbox Live, and we knew about most of the PSP stuff. The Region Free stuff is interesting...that is if it means what we think it means probably doesn't. PS3 games dont sound like they're blowin anyone away from what was show here. Looks like shit isn't really going to go down until E3

 

[KeithFranklin]

OK.

So I've been out of touch all today. What's the general concensus here at GAF on:

1) Microsoft's showing

2) Sony's showing

3) Nintendo's showing

Was all that was really announced for Nintendo Sega & Turbographics and a new Zelda?

And by showing I mean announcements, overall impact, etc. Not necessarily literally things that were shown.

Well this is a Developers conference and XNA is the biggest thing to hit Game Developers in a very very very long time. So MS showing although not fanboy friendly is huge stuff.

Sony still smells like Vicks Vapor rub.

Nintendo is a bomb in Iwata's shorts

 

[jett]

WTF? How can someone say the NES completely "sucked balls"? You're no longer qualified to participate in gaming discussions, Amir0x.

 

[Amir0x]

How anyone can claim the NES "sucked balls" is beyond me. The NES were the balls that fucking helped create this industry into what it is today.

Yo! Noid > Katamari

I'm not removing NES from its extremely vital place in gaming history. I was addicted to the thing back in the day. It's just that whenever I go back and play NES games I used to love, I think "wow, I liked this game? It sucks." There's a few exceptions, of course. Super Mario Bros. 3 is still my favorite Super Mario game.

WTF? How can someone say the NES completely "sucked balls"? You're no longer qualified to participate in gaming discussions, Amir0x.

Don't let me stop the gargantuan arm of the hardcore gamer army or anything, but it's not a very controversial opinion in my view. The games were held back by the lame technology of the day, or experimental ideas which typically didn't work. I judge games by how i like them now, not how I once liked them. If I go back and play a game and it isn't fun, it's not a far jump to realizing that I only liked them because at the time there were no really viable alternatives.

N64 had its problems, but it was far from a disaster. During the 32 bit gen things were rough, because the waits for games to release were ridiculously long at the start. But looking at the overall library at the end of the day, there is some good shit there. The best 3d versions of almost all their franchises are on this system, and some of the best 3d games period from that generation. Not gonna bother makin a list cuz lists suck, but quality is there. Going back to PS1 is actually harder for me for most 3d titles, because most of those games look like such a pixelated mess that I can't even get through them.

I'm one of those people who like Gamecube much more than N64. I like Super Mario Sunshine more than Super Mario 64, for instance. That's not to be 'different' either, it's just a more refined experience for me.

 

[Raistlin]

Wow. What did you do from 1985-1989??

Commodore 64 FTW!!




and actually, it came out before then ...

 

[SomeDude]

I happen to think the NES was kinda meh also...but just about all games on all consoles (well commodore 64, amiga, etc) back then were meh when comparing to now. Games that have been made in the past 10 years are just freakin miles better than the games during the 80s.

 

[Matlock]

As much as I hate to agree with Amirox, most games do not hold up well a gen or two past their release. I attribute it to the ever growing field of game design that makes so many earlier titles obsolete.

 

[SomeDude]

Commodore 64 FTW!!




and actually, it came out before then ...

Those games are pretty bad now also.

 

[Amir0x]

I happen to think the NES was kinda meh also...but just about all games on all consoles (well commodore 64, amiga, etc) back then were meh when comparing to now. Games that have been made in the past 10 years are just freakin miles better than the games during the 80s.

Oh, no doubt, I'm not singling out NES. i think this about SEGA Master System, Atari, ColecoVision...

 

[antipode]

There are ways of getting depth from two cameras as well. You can even do motion capture with only two cameras, but you'll have lots of occlusion. The P5 glove gets depth using two sensor nodes to detect the glove LEDS. Here's the link of how it's done:

http://www.mts.net/~kbagnall/p5/p5 dissassembly.html

it's one of the many ways to find depth using different tracking devices. We still don't know for sure how the remote is tracked (I'm 90% certain it is infra-red, but I'd love to be surprised), or what configuration the sensor bar is using, but we do know it is tracking three directions.

Really all you need to consider is the power glove if you need proof that the revmote will track 3 positions, you need look no further than the power glove. It was made in conjunction with Nintendo, and was available 15 years ago. It also was capable of tracking position in all three axis, as well as roll ( I believe the other two rotations weren't tracked). A lot of time has passed and I think they'll manage something that works well enough to catch on this time around.

Well, the difference is the degree of preciseness you can expect - whether the Revmote can track depth so that you can move it an inch back accurately.

WRT optical tracking, one problem is Nintendo has said you can play just fine at any angle to the TV and not just inbetween the sensors, so you'd have to use very wide angle lenses or only have one sensor tracking you at a time. But more to the point it's difficult to make things precise with optics in that range to less than a foot - you can look at some of the P5 glove's reviews on the first Google page -

The first release of the P5 glove were pretty bad... you only had an actual operation range of about 2 feet if you used it ina darkroom with no reflextive surfaces. WHY? P5 uses a combination of the old PowerGlove and a Hand scanner to track the glove movement. It's ok in a isolated environment were you are playing old school power glove style games. But if you need precision tracking in a 6DOF it is highly inaccurate. It drifts, and it does not move smoothly. If your IR scanner (the tower by the monitor) has imperfections in the plastic molding it distorts your actual motions.

Unfortunately the data it provides is very noisy and not always accurate. Overall it is a good starting point. Because the input data can be extremely noisy at times, movement of the hand is being restricted to only horizontal and vertical movements, as well as the normal behavior of the fingers. Therefore, the data regarding the depth and direction of the hand is ignored.

Obviously some of that is the quality of the implemenation, but I think some math about the resolution of cameras shows you need pretty expensive optics to get precise depth tracking.

If you use the other examples in your lab I'm interested to hear more. With Intersense, I think the problem is again having fiducials in space around you and not just the unobtrusive sensor bar Nintendo wanted (for good reason.) Ascension uses magnetic sensors and I thought that's unlikely both because people's houses have lots of metallic objects and that the TV set around the sensor bar would be a constant source of interference to begin with.

 

[Mrbob]

Well this is a Developers conference and XNA is the biggest thing to hit Game Developers in a very very very long time. So MS showing although not fanboy friendly is huge stuff.

Sony still smells like Vicks Vapor rub.

Nintendo is a bomb in Iwata's shorts

Have any links for the XNA info? I've been wanting to read about it.

 

[Raistlin]

To be honest I wasn't all that impressed with the NES.

I went from Atari 2600 to the C-64, and was happy for quite some time. I bought the NES fairly late in its life, and only after having played Zelda, Metroid and Kid Icarus as 'deciders'.

 

[Raistlin]

Those games are pretty bad now also.

I'm saying that at the time - playing both - I wasn't very impressed with NES.

 

[KeithFranklin]

Have any links for the XNA info? I've been wanting to read about it.

XNA Site

 

[TekunoRobby]

Nintendo keynote, yeaaaaaaah.

 

[Mrbob]

Thanks Keith!

Nintendo keynote, yeaaaaaaah.

Were you not jumping up and down with joy?

 

[TekunoRobby]

Were you not jumping up and down with joy?

Ummmm Zelda was pretty cool.