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So it has just been 5 years since Huawei has been put on the US export list and we've yet to see any proof (any at all) that they conspire against the West and placed a direct link to the Chinese government in their 5G networking appliances in cellphone towers. In fact, now that I write this down, it sounds fucking retarded to imply that. Anyone could sniff traffic from any of their devices and figure out their spying, yet nobody has ever found anything.

What do you guys think of the Huawei ban now that we're 5 years in?

 

[DeafTourette]

It was stupid then, it's stupid now.

 

[Panajev2001a]

So it has just been 5 years since Huawei has been put on the US export list and we've yet to see any proof (any at all) that they conspire against the West and placed a direct link to the Chinese government in their 5G networking appliances in cellphone towers. In fact, now that I write this down, it sounds fucking retarded to imply that. Anyone could sniff traffic from any of their devices and figure out their spying, yet nobody has ever found anything.

What do you guys think of the Huawei ban now that we're 5 years in?

Meanwhile in the U.S. … https://apnews.com/article/fisa-don...ress-johnson-81e991c9f82e77b2fe13f8a3e0e25349

:/…

 

[Bry0]

The only rational explanation for a lot of these laws (and they exist both ways) is essentially as war preparations imo. Feels like an open secret to me.

 

[kruis]

The whole thing was an excuse for the US to start a trade war with China. The US is now doing anything to stop China from becoming the biggest economy on the planet. That's why the US denies Chinese companies access to certain western markets to sell products (5G networking switches, mobile phones), why the US has raised tariffs on electric cars and steel from China and why it uses sanctions to deny China access to western high tech products (supercomputers, chip machines).

 

[kruis]

The only rational explanation for a lot of these laws (and they exist both ways) is essentially as war preparations imo. Feels like an open secret to me.

If you constantly treat a powerful country as an enemy, you will create the exact thing you fear.

 

[GHG]

They were about to eat Apple's lunch so they needed to be stopped.

 

[Bry0]

If you constantly treat a powerful country as an enemy, you will create the exact thing you fear.

Yep money and soft power is in the interest of both. I dont think it’s surprising the US is being protective, but the potential outcomes are predictable.

 

[12Goblins]

Sucks cause they are doing it to the car industry now too because they know US manufacturers can't compete with sub $10K EVs which even includes the shipping.. it's annoying because they aren't even trying to compete for this space. They just want to rig the game and keep pumping out oversized and overpriced vehicles that nobody needs for maximum profit

 

[Mossybrew]

I have no idea what a Huawei is sorry. I probably didn't want one anyway.

 

[DeafTourette]

I have no idea what a Huawei is sorry. I probably didn't want one anyway.

They make some of the BEST android smartphones... Better than Samsung Galaxy S 24 Ultra ... And some very good quality 5G equipment for cell towers

 

[diffusionx]

By far the most consequential part of this decision was that it motivated China to develop its own semiconductor industry including design and fabrication.

Sanctions just don’t work.

 

[kruis]

By far the most consequential part of this decision was that it motivated China to develop its own semiconductor industry including design and fabrication.

Sanctions just don’t work.

There are more consequences. There's dedollarization to worry about too.

China used to buy lots of US bonds and invested in the US, but now thanks to this tradewar China is now reducing the reliance on the dollar in trade and selling their US bonds. China's BRICS partners are also starting to trade in their own currencies instead of the dollar. The petro dollar allowed the US to endlessly print money, the rest of the world would always buy US debts and it wouldn't matter in the end, but without the mighty petro dollar a future economic crisis will hit the US much, much harder.

Of course, every politician in Washington acts as if these risks don't exist and the US can do whatever the fuck it wants to do militarily, economically and monetarily and not suffer any consequences. But those days are now over.

JPMorgan says the biggest risk of de-dollarization isn't a rival currency — it's that the US could lose a key tool it's used to fight past economic crises

JPMorgan said "de-dollarization risk for Western economies mostly relates to inflation and their debt burden."

markets.businessinsider.com

 

[jason10mm]

Wait, you guys are bemoaning the lack of cheap slave made Chinese goods with terrible environmental impacts flooding our markets, gow many of ya'll also think flipping burgers should be worth $20/hr??

 

[simpatico]

The free market can’t be free when non free companies do mildly free but also not free things.

Plus they could have made trouble for American companies trying to compete.

 

[diffusionx]

There are more consequences. There's dedollarization to worry about too.

China used to buy lots of US bonds and invested in the US, but now thanks to this tradewar China is now reducing the reliance on the dollar in trade and selling their US bonds. China's BRICS partners are also starting to trade in their own currencies instead of the dollar. The petro dollar allowed the US to endlessly print money, the rest of the world would always buy US debts and it wouldn't matter in the end, but without the mighty petro dollar a future economic crisis will hit the US much, much harder.

Of course, every politician in Washington acts as if these risks don't exist and the US can do whatever the fuck it wants to do militarily, economically and monetarily and not suffer any consequences. But those days are now over.

JPMorgan says the biggest risk of de-dollarization isn't a rival currency — it's that the US could lose a key tool it's used to fight past economic crises

JPMorgan said "de-dollarization risk for Western economies mostly relates to inflation and their debt burden."

markets.businessinsider.com

This is an overall consequence of the out of control sanctions office. Back in the day if you got sanctioned by the USA you were in deep shit but nowadays China can come to you and built you an airport or whatever with none of the strings attached. And if China can do it externally it can do it domestically.

 

[Days like these...]

They were about to eat Apple's lunch so they needed to be stopped.

America really shot itself in the foot with the ban. Thanks to the ban Huawei has created its own chips and OS and they're sales are growing tremendously. The Chinese government will not let America kill Huawei.
I've imported 3 Huawei phones and own a Huawei Watch GT 2. The watch lasts about a week and a half on a single charge. I no longer have a Huawei phone because other Chinese OEM's have surpassed their camera quality. I currently own a Vivo x100 pro and it has the best camera on the market right now

The days of Chinese tech being subpar are long gone.

 

[gokurho]

OK
US gov. have to ban Tiktok.
They were behind Huawei.

 

[demigod]

So it has just been 5 years since Huawei has been put on the US export list and we've yet to see any proof (any at all) that they conspire against the West and placed a direct link to the Chinese government in their 5G networking appliances in cellphone towers. In fact, now that I write this down, it sounds fucking retarded to imply that. Anyone could sniff traffic from any of their devices and figure out their spying, yet nobody has ever found anything.

What do you guys think of the Huawei ban now that we're 5 years in?

USA cell phone towers do not use Huawei equipment, or do you mean the phone itself?

 

[RickSanchez]

Wait, you guys are bemoaning the lack of cheap slave made Chinese goods with terrible environmental impacts flooding our markets, gow many of ya'll also think flipping burgers should be worth $20/hr??

There's nothing wrong with wanting fair wages for so-called 'menial' jobs. Flipping burgers is hard work and 20-25 $/hr barely lets you pay rent for a decent place in the US's expensive cities. I'm not sure how you're connecting this with the Huawei ban.

 

[Musashipan]

Chinese garbage spy phones shouldn't be allowed anywhere

 

[Cyberpunkd]

If you constantly treat a powerful country as an enemy, you will create the exact thing you fear.

Chinese communist party apologists found this thread.

China is the enemy of a western democratic world. It’s not hard to understand given their history which always saw other nations as someone to subjugate.

 

[ZehDon]

Given China's penchant for spying, disappearing, invading, and lying, I'm quite happy to ban Chinese telecommunications devices entirely, frankly.

 

[Nobody_Important]

Yeah cheap effective tech is not worth my personal information in the hands of an adversary. Might as well text my SSN to Winnie himself. They also have no interest in fair market competition. Their cheap tech and cheap EVs are not a product of an honest system trying to compete with western markets. They rely on slave labor in order to drop their costs so low to undermine the US market. The US trying to shut down their imports is one of the few times where the government is in the right when it comes to cracking down on foreign imports.


Fuck China.

Sucks cause they are doing it to the car industry now too because they know US manufacturers can't compete with sub $10K EVs which even includes the shipping.. it's annoying because they aren't even trying to compete for this space. They just want to rig the game and keep pumping out oversized and overpriced vehicles that nobody needs for maximum profit

Of course they compete. Its utter BS built upon slave labor and government intervention. There is no company in the world that is making a 10k EV honestly with no other issues. That is a pipe dream. Even if that pile of crap was allowed in the US it would be layered in information stealing tech and would be scarcely supported by any local business. Getting parts would be a nightmare. These are not well made vehicles.


The US blocking that shitpile of a car is not a unilateral decision based on local industry alone. That is protecting the US consumer from a scam on wheels.

 

[Panajev2001a]

Given China's penchant for spying, disappearing, invading, and lying, I'm quite happy to ban Chinese telecommunications devices entirely, frankly.

Do you ban U.S. made products too ?

 

[Panajev2001a]

Chinese communist party apologists found this thread.

China is the enemy of a western democratic world. It’s not hard to understand given their history which always saw other nations as someone to subjugate.

Actually just like United States, they never pushed an expansionist agenda.

 

[Cyberpunkd]

Actually just like United States, they never pushed an expansionist agenda.

Doesn't matter that they do not invade other nations like the Russians do, Chinese see other nations as existing to serve China. It's a direct copy of the "Middle Kingdom" philosophy of Imperial China, and CCP sees themselves as direct continuation of Imperial China.

 

[ZehDon]

Do you ban U.S. made products too ?

If they had CCPs history, yeah. Or did you think you were making a point?

 

[winjer]

It's funny how China has been banning or severe limiting western companies in China, but if the USA bans just one, then they are the bad guys.
China is the most protective country in the planet. The USA banning Huawei is a drop in the ocean, compared to what China did.
Let's not try to pretend that the CCP is some benevolent actor in world affairs.

 

[TransTrender]

Yeah, Huawei and the CCP, and their affiliates can get fucked, and I hope will be fucked, until death.
Suck my ass and balls and shit.
Coming from two companies that lost "billions" because of this yet somehow still survived, and continue to survive, without enabling the CCP Grim Reapers.

 

[Nankatsu]

Google while owning Android:

 

[kruis]

Chinese communist party apologists found this thread.

China is the enemy of a western democratic world. It’s not hard to understand given their history which always saw other nations as someone to subjugate.

Compare the number of countries the US has destabilized, attacked or invaded with what China has done to other countries in the same time. The difference is shocking.

 

[winjer]

Compare the number of countries the US has destabilized, attacked or invaded with what China has done to other countries in the same time. The difference is shocking.

That is only true if we look at the last 50-70 years.
Extend that record a few centuries and it gets much worse for China.

But even in this period, it's not like China has been sitting idle. They have invaded several neighbors, most notably Tibet. But unlike the USA, they never left and are now doing a cultural and religious cleansing.
You might also be forgetting things like when China invaded Vietnam, just a few yeas after the USA lost the war and left the country.
And even today, China is being extremely aggressive against most of it's neighbors. Especially with regards to it's 9 dash line sea.
It's so bad, that a communists country like Vietnam is now allied with the USA.
There were also several wars, were China was sending it's own troops to prop up the government they wanted to be in power. The Korean war is a great example of that, and now look at how amazing lives the North Koreans have today.

I'm not saying the USA are good guys, they really are not.
But that argument is like the pot calling the kettle black.

 

[Mihos]

Incoming DJI ban is going to suck

 

[Mistake]

This is an overall consequence of the out of control sanctions office. Back in the day if you got sanctioned by the USA you were in deep shit but nowadays China can come to you and built you an airport or whatever with none of the strings attached. And if China can do it externally it can do it domestically.

That's because communism is the biggest of double edged swords. For as fast as they can allocate resources without the red tape, it can be taken away in the same fashion. I was there when they built up Xiamen, which was impressive.

Actually just like United States, they never pushed an expansionist agenda.

Ever hear of Tibet? Their expansive ideals have only been hindered because china was poor asf until the 1980's. Now they actually have a military, so they're trying to expand regularly with island claims against japan, the south china sea with the nine dash line, mountain ranges going to india, and even Russia's Vladivostok.

Compare the number of countries the US has destabilized, attacked or invaded with what China has done to other countries in the same time. The difference is shocking.

Probably because china was busy killing their own people for 1000s of years with all their dynasty changes and territorial disputes. There's no real point in comparing the two honestly. China is now going through a supercharged industrial age during a completely different time period the US had theirs for instance

 

[winjer]

BTW, just yesterdays, TSMC and ASML confirmed that the machines used to make chips, have the ability to remotely disable them , in case of a Chinese invasion of Taiwan.

ASML and TSMC Can Disable Chip Machines If China Invades Taiwan

ASML Holding and Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Co. have ways to disable the world’s most advanced chip-making machines in the event that China invades Taiwan, according to people familair with the matter.

www.bloomberg.com

 

[jason10mm]

There's nothing wrong with wanting fair wages for so-called 'menial' jobs. Flipping burgers is hard work and 20-25 $/hr barely lets you pay rent for a decent place in the US's expensive cities. I'm not sure how you're connecting this with the Huawei ban.

If you flood our markets with cheap slave labor manufactured goods how do you think the average western manufacturing job is gonna react? Why do you think folks try to "make a career" off flipping burgers instead of getting a better paid job in manufacturing?

 

[Lunarorbit]

Yeah I'm 100% OK with this ban. I definitely don't trust the Chinese govt and wish tik tok was banned already. I've got enough surveillance from the nsa being an American citizen. Don't need more from China.

I'm really surprised by some of the responses in here. Yall want more Chinese investment in the US? Have you checked out the housing market? Where do you think our open living spaces went? Our Canadian friends haven't been able to live in Vancouver for decades because of ridiculous foreign investment.

 

[Reckheim]

I always wondered why people are more ok with their own government spying on them rather then a foreign government.

What exactly do people think China would do with your info?

This has always been about making sure your domestic brands benefit rather then handing money to foreign companies; which makes sense. Not sure why the US just doesn't say that straight up instead of making up some spying BS about china.

 

[T8SC]

I no longer have a Huawei phone because other Chinese OEM's have surpassed their camera quality. I currently own a Vivo x100 pro and it has the best camera on the market right now

According to DXOMark, the top 5 phone cameras are Huawei.

1: Huawei Pura 70 Ultra
2: Honor Magic6 Pro
3: Huawei Mate 60 Pro+
3: Oppo Find X7 Ultra
5: Huawei P60 Pro


(Joint 3rd. I'm aware there's no 4).

 

[GHG]

Yeah cheap effective tech is not worth my personal information in the hands of an adversary. Might as well text my SSN to Winnie himself. They also have no interest in fair market competition. Their cheap tech and cheap EVs are not a product of an honest system trying to compete with western markets. They rely on slave labor in order to drop their costs so low to undermine the US market. The US trying to shut down their imports is one of the few times where the government is in the right when it comes to cracking down on foreign imports.


Fuck China.

Where and how do you think most of the components (or even the whole thing itself) for your "American" products are made?

 

[nush]

I always wondered why people are more ok with their own government spying on them rather then a foreign government.

Easy,

Own government spies on all of you to find "Bad guys" to save you from.
Other government spies on you to attack or weaken your country.

 

[Days like these...]

According to DXOMark, the top 5 phone cameras are Huawei.

1: Huawei Pura 70 Ultra
2: Honor Magic6 Pro
3: Huawei Mate 60 Pro+
3: Oppo Find X7 Ultra
5: Huawei P60 Pro


(Joint 3rd. I'm aware there's no 4).

Dxomark scoring is wildly inconsistent. I have the phone and have compared shots with friends that have the 15 pro max and galaxy S24 ultra. Haven't come across anybody with an oppo, honor or Huawei.

 

[winjer]

Where and how do you think most of the components (or even the whole thing itself) for your "American" products are made?

Most are designed in the USA, produced in Taiwan, and assembled in China.

 

[Days like these...]

Some of you are wildly paranoid and sinophobic. What it boils down to is America will do whatever it takes to try and stay on top and this Huawei ban is just another example. If you support America's by any means necessary stance then cool but don't hide behind "The PRC are going to steal my shaved butthole pics!"

 

[Fabieter]

Its called economic war. Its the same for tiktok or the new temu ban threat. The US is also in economic war with the EU but its alot more subtile tho.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Funny things is way back HNIC (Hockey Night in Canada) would have Huawei sponsorship throughout the telecast.

 

[AJUMP23]

If huawei is a banned user 5 years is long enough. Let them back.

 

[Tams]

Nope.

Virus infested junk trying to get into our systems. It's all copycat stuff anyway.

 

[Tams]

I always wondered why people are more ok with their own government spying on them rather then a foreign government.

What exactly do people think China would do with your info?

This has always been about making sure your domestic brands benefit rather then handing money to foreign companies; which makes sense. Not sure why the US just doesn't say that straight up instead of making up some spying BS about china.

Not to go into forbidden territory, but I've been on the spikey end of China's influence, albeit only mildly. It's really nasty and makes the US look like a teddy bear. In short, fuck China and don't let them get access to our systems and IP.