Support NeoGAF

[DeepEnigma]

I'd like a sequel where Joel and Ellie are

Spoiler

being hunted because Joel potentially fucked over the world just to fulfill his protective parent desires

Spoiler

The way people were acting on both sides, the world deserves every minute of it. Selfish human beings. And I do not think they would have had a 'cure' regardless.

First series or the slightly better (but not yet perfect) second series?

Leading more into the second... but still a patient zero type scenario. So the cities are still in somewhat good shape, etc..

 

[callsignkrogan]

I would like if it would pick up where it left off or went a few years into the future. Also mp was fantastic and one of the more unique experiences I've had.

 

[Sephzilla]

Spoiler

The way people were acting on both sides, the world deserves every minute of it. And I do not think they would have had a 'cure' regardless.

Well

Spoiler

regardless of whether or not there would have actually been a cure isn't what I'm interested about in that potential follow up. I'm interested in how Ellie would react to finding out Joel lied to her and didn't even attempt to find a cure. And how Joel would feel being hunted by people and potentially past friends because he chose the needs of the one over the needs of the many

 

[Palculator]

Their story is done for me and I see no appeal in them extending their character arc because it had a satisfying ending. I'd appreciate new characters more. Maybe add a few notes you find in the game from which you can gleam if Joel and Ellie lived happily ever after for the players who would like that information.

 

[Gears]

New characters. Axe the fucking pay to win shit next time

 

[Ascenion]

Huh, this is the first time I heard someone said "you can't actually have a prequel that isn't a sequel". The general consensus is anything takes place before the original story is a prequel and if it's after the original story then it's a sequel. Not sure what to call if it takes place at the same time with the original story, but definitely not a sequel or prequel.

So going with your definition, Is Human Revolution is a sequel or prequel? Because the wiki definitely says "a prequel to the original game released in 2000" which is true in my book.

If it occurs at the same time you'd call that a parallel sequel. Human Revolution is very much a sequel, just not a direct sequel. It expands upon ideas and themes in the previous two Deus Ex games. It isn't Deus Ex 3 but it is no less a sequel. I consider it the same as I consider Halo Reach a prequel with the concession that all prequels are sequels since a prequel can't exist without some form of original work. Basically look at it like Borderlands the pre-sequel. That's all the word prequel actually is.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Well

Spoiler

regardless of whether or not there would have actually been a cure isn't what I'm interested about in that potential follow up. I'm interested in how Ellie would react to finding out Joel lied to her and didn't even attempt to find a cure. And how Joel would feel being hunted by people and potentially past friends because he chose the needs of the one over the needs of the many

True,

Spoiler

however, I think she would appreciate that she was able to break into his soft side, since she was trying to earn that camaraderie the entire time. And if she knew he did it for her (and him), since she was to die with no guarantee (lets be honest, they did not have a sterile or full lab needed, they were also chasing a hopeless dream of spawned obsession), I think she could rationalize that and appreciate his affection towards her.

 

[Servbot24]

I want to play as Ellie and get back at Joel.

 

[warheat]

Human Revolution is very much a sequel

We've been OOT for a while and I would like to stop but I think your definition of sequel is far from the general consensus

Deus Ex: Human Revolution is a cyberpunk-themed first-person action role-playing stealth video game developed by Eidos Montreal and published by Square Enix,[3] which also produced the game's CGI sequences. Originally released in August 2011 for PC, PlayStation 3 and Xbox 360, it is the third game in the Deus Ex series, and a prequel to the original game released in 2000.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deus_Ex:_Human_Revolution

Deus Ex: Human Revolution, also known as Deus Ex 3 (DX3), is the third game in the Deus Ex series and a prequel to Deus Ex.

http://deusex.wikia.com/wiki/Deus_Ex:_Human_Revolution

 

[Palculator]

We've been OOT for a while and I would like to stop but I think your definition of sequel is far from the general consensus

Yeah, I appreciate the point they're trying to make in that obviously any "prequel" is used to build on and expand concepts of the story it is a prequel to, but the term as it's used very clearly refers to a story's events being set before a previous entry's in the causal chronological order, with no attention paid to how it deals with themes and ideas introduced in release order. And using those terms in a way that basically contradicts their normal use will just end up in confusion.

 

[The Artisan]

Yeah, I appreciate the point they're trying to make in that obviously any "prequel" is used to build on and expand concepts of the story it is a prequel to, but the term as it's used very clearly refers to a story's events being set before a previous entry's in the causal chronological order, with no attention paid to how it deals with themes and ideas introduced in release order. And using those terms in a way that basically contradicts their normal use will just end up in confusion.

I think what he's trying to say is that a prequel is a followup, as in it is usually the next installment of what is preexisting, but the term isn't used backwards.

Uncharted 4 is a sequel to Uncharted 3, but Uncharted 3 is not the "prequel" to Uncharted 4. Nobody says that.

Batman Arkham Origins is Batman Arkham 3. It is the third installment of the batman Arkham series, however it is a prequel in setting. Since it is another followup though, it's a sequel in the series

 

[Palculator]

I think what he's trying to say is that a prequel is a followup, as in it is usually the next installment of what is preexisting, but the term isn't used backwards.

Well, I might be misreading, but since they said Deus Ex: Human Revolution was "very much a sequel" I didn't read it that way. It's a "sequel" in the sense that it builds on ideas established in previous games while the events obviously predate them narratively. It's a followup to something preexisting, so by your reading of their post, it should be a prequel, but according to them it specifically is not.

But let's put that aside for a sec.

Uncharted 4 is a sequel to Uncharted 3, but Uncharted 3 is not the "prequel" to Uncharted 4. Nobody says that.

I actually have used the term like that in the past, lol. I get how it seems weird but I'm lacking a more appropriate term, then.

 

[zma1013]

Fast forward to when Ellie is 20 something, then have a story about her dealing with finally losing Joel. Joel doesnt get shot or killed by a zombie, he just dies of natural causes about halfway through being older and all and she has to deal with it. Something like that I guess I dunno.

 

[Nick]

On one hand, I can't imagine TLOU without Joel and Ellie. On the other hand, I'm completely satisfied how things ended with them. If they make another TLOU (and lbr, they will), I will probably want new characters to focus on. That book is done. Let's start a new one.

 

[Ascenion]

I think what he's trying to say is that a prequel is a followup, as in it is usually the next installment of what is preexisting, but the term isn't used backwards.

Uncharted 4 is a sequel to Uncharted 3, but Uncharted 3 is not the "prequel" to Uncharted 4. Nobody says that.

Batman Arkham Origins is Batman Arkham 3. It is the third installment of the batman Arkham series, however it is a prequel in setting. Since it is another followup though, it's a sequel in the series

Well, I might be misreading, but since they said Deus Ex: Human Revolution was "very much a sequel" I didn't read it that way. It's a "sequel" in the sense that it builds on ideas established in previous games while the events obviously predate them narratively. It's a followup to something preexisting, so by your reading of their post, it should be a prequel, but according to them it specifically is not.

But let's put that aside for a sec.

I actually have used the term like that in the past, lol. I get how it seems weird but I'm lacking a more appropriate term, then.

Pretty much what The Artisan said. I said I would concede to Human Revolution being a prequel as long as it is understood that by nature any prequel is a sequel. You can't have a prequel by itself that isn't a sequel because what would it be the preceding event to. It's very confusing and my wording didn't help anything.

 

[Palculator]

Pretty much what The Artisan said. I said I would concede to Human Revolution being a prequel as long as it is understood that by nature any prequel is a sequel. You can't have a prequel by itself that isn't a sequel because what would it be the preceding event to. It's very confusing and my wording didn't help anything.

Guess I misread, then. What's your take on calling a game released first and taking place before a subsequent release a prequel?

 

[Catdaddy]

Grown up Ellie has to escort a teenage boy named Joel from Utah to Boston.

New story, new characters and different part of the world…

 

[Ascenion]

Guess I misread, then. What's your take on calling a game released first and taking place before a subsequent release a prequel?

I wouldn't because it isn't. Prequel implies pre-sequel since the word is just a portmanteau, I think that's what you call it at least. So it's implying a sequel made after the original work simply taking place before the original work narratively. I wouldn't call Mass Effect 2 the prequel to Mass Effect 3 since it isn't fleshing out anything from Mass Effect 3.

 

[The Artisan]

I wouldn't because it isn't. Prequel implies pre-sequel since the word is just a portmanteau, I think that's what you call it at least. So it's implying a sequel made after the original work simply taking place before the original work narratively. I wouldn't call Mass Effect 2 the prequel to Mass Effect 3 since it isn't fleshing out anything from Mass Effect 3.

yeah pretty much this. i don't think what Palculator is saying is inherently wrong; his thought process behind it certainly isn't, but I just don't view literature the same way.

also as a side note, I appreciate how much discussion has happened already, however everyone please keep in mind that this thread is meant to serve two whole purposes. if you enjoyed the multiplayer in mp, please share your thoughts on what you want in the next installment, too.

 

[The Artisan]

BUMP: So now that tlou2 has been announced and we know that Joel and Ellie will be in the story, I now want to focus this thread's entire focus on the multiplayer.

Or, you can talk about what you think will happen in the campaign too. I guess that'd be appropriate since with the teaser, we know what style the campaign will be in; Ellie & Joel as the protagonists,

unless they pull a Yakuza and do give some extra secondary protagonists in addition to the protagonist/deuteragonist of the story.

But yeah. I don't have any comments on the story for now, but as for the multiplayer, I just wanna reiterate that:

-I want a hardcore mode where there are zombies right on the maps, so that you have to deal with both the opponents of the opposite team, and the infected.

-Maybe some Uncharted-like perks, that are only the grounded ones, like the booster that helps your teammate heal faster and back to full health. Unless tlou1 did that.

But anyways they're already lated since it's got the downed/killed system.

What do you think?

 

[etta]

Probably better to create a new thread with that objective.

 

[TimeEffect]

No thanks for a clickers mode. That shit is just dumb in a game as competitive as LoU mp.

I don't want to be in some deep firefight and have it messed up because we suddenly have to fight ai. It completely ruins the flow and thoughtfulness of the existing modes.

I don't see the point in including them in any of the good, base modes. But a separate mode that is focused around that concept sounds better, like how titanfall has it. But the game is just too tactical I'd think, to have to deal with clickers so I don't see how it would work.

Except for a co op mode, where it should be only.

I want some original modes to the competitive pvp. In fact I don't even need anything other than the 3 great ones they currently have. Just make it better while showing the amazing restraint of the first

 

[The Artisan]

Probably better to create a new thread with that objective.

hm well if this thread does not pick up steam then I'm gonna have to create a new thread for it.

No thanks for a clickers mode. That shit is just dumb in a game as competitive as LoU mp.

I don't want to be in some deep firefight and have it messed up because we suddenly have to fight ai. It completely ruins the flow and thoughtfulness of the existing modes.

I don't see the point in including them in any of the good, base modes. But a separate mode that is focused around that concept sounds better, like how titanfall has it. But the game is just too tactical I'd think, to have to deal with clickers so I don't see how it would work.

Except for a co op mode, where it should be only.

I want some original modes to the competitive pvp. In fact I don't even need anything other than the 3 great ones they currently have. Just make it better while showing the amazing restraint of the first

umm it's not like it would mess up the flow for just you, it would mess up the flow for both you and your opponent that you're trying to kill. That's kinda the point, that's how the world of tlou really is and that's supposed to be the added challenge.

 

[TimeEffect]

hm well if this thread does not pick up steam then I'm gonna have to create a new thread for it.

umm it's not like it would mess up the flow for just you, it would mess up the flow for both you and your opponent that you're trying to kill. That's kinda the point, that's how the world of tlou really is and that's supposed to be the added challenge.

But that doesn't matter, it's just worse. It's not a challenge that benefits the PvP, it'd be there to disturb it for the sake of some resemblance to the SP.


And it'd most definitely mess it up more for one person than the opponent. No one wants to outplay an opponent and have that reversed because a.i enters the game to annoy everyone. Everything about the MP was about controlled teamwork. Holding down a lane, wiping out an entire squad, controlling supply points, etc. To throw A.I into that would add a random element that would upset a lot of players who play for the challenge of outplaying a team of humans. The game was challenging despite a.i

LoU map had great firefights that required thought. Like Siege MP, you would spend time thinking about your opponents location, and then try some tactic to bait them out or flank.

Sometimes you'd have a 4v4 stalemate and would break it by having a teammate flank around while you'd hold a lane to overwatch it

Imagine all of this being ruined because a random ai decides to fuck shit up for everyone. It's just a frustrating and bad design for a PvP multiplayer as competitive as LoU.

It works for a co op mode, but would absolutely kill what makes LoU mp so good. I don't want competitive games of supply raid where 20 lives are valuably fought over, to be determined by instances of a.i interfering with the outcome.

 

[Wadiwasi]

I don't understand the no sequel thing. Sequels don't have to pick up where the other left off or not have completely different characters. I thought the ending in TLoU was perfect. But what happens as time goes on, they won't live out their lives all quiet and peaceful...not in that world. Some shit will eventually go down and when that happens I want to play whatever amazing concoction Naughty Dog comes up with.

I believe they said Ellie was 18-20 or something which is years after the first game. The way Naughty Dog set up the first story and ending gives them the ability to go anywhere with this story. Just because something is a masterpiece doesn't mean a sequel will ruin or take away from what the first game was, (*cough* any Rocky after IV).

I keep buying the Borderlands games even though I really haven't liked one since the original. Going to buy the next one that comes out too. I trust ND way more than Gearbox to make a game I'll enjoy so I don't care if they showed some random video of a hidden character eating a can of Spam, I'd buy it day one once I saw that logo.

I love the fact we are getting more Ellie. I really would like to have some complementary characters that stick around for a good chunk of the game outside of Ellie and Joel though. I really couldn't care less about the multiplayer. Never played it in the first game and probably won't this time around.


tl;dr

Have some faith in Naughty Dog.

 

[The Artisan]

But that doesn't matter, it's just worse. It's not a challenge that benefits the PvP, it'd be there to disturb it for the sake of some resemblance to the SP.


And it'd most definitely mess it up more for one person than the opponent. No one wants to outplay an opponent and have that reversed because a.i enters the game to annoy everyone. Everything about the MP was about controlled teamwork. Holding down a lane, wiping out an entire squad, controlling supply points, etc. To throw A.I into that would add a random element that would upset a lot of players who play for the challenge of outplaying a team of humans. The game was challenging despite a.i

LoU map had great firefights that required thought. Like Siege MP, you would spend time thinking about your opponents location, and then try some tactic to bait them out or flank.

Sometimes you'd have a 4v4 stalemate and would break it by having a teammate flank around while you'd hold a lane to overwatch it

Imagine all of this being ruined because a random ai decides to fuck shit up for everyone. It's just a frustrating and bad design for a PvP multiplayer as competitive as LoU.

It works for a co op mode, but would absolutely kill what makes LoU mp so good. I don't want competitive games of supply raid where 20 lives are valuably fought over, to be determined by instances of a.i interfering with the outcome.

If you think it's worse, then you just would avoid and wouldn't play it. What harm is there in including a mode that includes them?

In principle, Uc4 does something similar with the sidekicks, although they are allies to any one team; the clickers would be enemies to both teams.

 

[Moon Presence]

Please don't touch the god tier PvP. Maybe a co-op horde mode or something but that's about it.

 

[SSReborn]

I know what they should do! Drag a bunch of elements from Uncharted mp and throw them into last of us to try to bring the audiences together. I want weapon pickups and regenerating health.
/s

 

[TimeEffect]

If you think it's worse, then you just would avoid and wouldn't play it. What harm is there in including a mode that includes them?

In principle, Uc4 does something similar with the sidekicks, although they are allies to any one team; the clickers would be enemies to both teams.

I feel like it'd be such a minor thing to have as a separate playlist.

LoU already had a few playlists and that was mostly due to help with the population. 3 modes, with 2 submodes (party vs no parties). This was a good priority as people hated facing pre-made parties.

Having the same playlists just for the inclusion of clickers seems wasteful and redundant. This isn't COD, where they can have like 14 playlists and expect people to find matches in them all. Why make a repeat playlist with a small twist when they can make a new mode, like they did with interrogations?

Why waste efforts on adding clickers to PvP when they can just make a full fledged co-op mode, which will definitely be a much better sell?

 

[belteshazzar]

Well, they already said Ellie is the center of this game and the playable character... so, yeah. As for multiplayer, I really loved the original one, so I really want it to come back. It really had a unique feeling and a tension unlike any other multiplayer I've played. Additionally, they could do something similar to what they've done with Uncharted 4 by including a coop horde mode as well. Other than that, I cannot think of any other multiplayer modes that could be a natural fit with TLOU's themes.

 

[Gator86]

I don't want to see any of the main characters from TLOU1. They suffered enough and earned their respite, I don't need to see them being all miserable and shit again for 15 hours.

This. It's totally unnecessary. We only have them back because people are intolerable rubes who can't deal with ambiguity. People screaming at the director to explain the end of Inception is a good example. The first game didn't end with a clear explanation of how everyone felt and how life would go on, so clearly the story was not finished, despite the fact the ending was perfect and the story had the best ending of any game in years.

 

[yurinka]

-Do you or do not want Joel & Ellie to be a part of the sequel? If you do, should it be all about them, or should there be another set of protagonists/deuteragonists in the mix that catches up with them?

Yes, I want them to be the main characters of the sequel, this time playing more as Ellie. It would be great to add a few new characters who may lead some future DLCs/sequels/prequels just in case they don't want to continue with Joel or Ellie.

-Did you hate or love the mp in tlou? If you loved it to the max do you think there should be anything added in the sequel's mp or do you think there's still room for shit to add? All I'll

I'm a single player character, but enjoyed the MP.

 

[Inspector Q]

I thought the MP was amazing for the first TLoU so I am definitely looking forward to any info on the sequel's MP.

The only thing that sucked was the customization. Just hats and masks was kind of lame and you couldn't even choose what character model you wanted to use. You would get stuck with whatever random male or female the game decided to give you for that particular match. So definitely looking for some improvements in this regard.

Now I would absolutely love something along the lines of Resident Evil Revelations 2's Raid Mode. A mode that can be played solo or with a friend where you start off with a limited roster of characters, levels and weapons, but slowly unlock new stuff as you go. All new levels, characters, weapons and outfits. Rev 2's Raid Mode was a crazy amount of content for such a small budget game. I would love something like that for TLoU 2.

 

[LAA]

Don't care what they do with TLOU2 story wise, I trust them to do whatever and I'm sure it'll be great.

MP wise though... Please don't make it like TLOU1, at least don't try to weave some sort of story into it AND make me play a ton of matches AND make it possible for me to fail and have to play another TON more matches to try again AND tie a trophy for doing it.
I did it once for PS3 but lack the willpower to do it again on PS4 and I don't want that again for TLOU2.
Gameplay wise...I was sorta meh with the MP. I mean I appreciate it's clever they managed to work scavenging and stealth into the MP, but for me personally it isn't always fun to play. With most of ND's games I've felt I'd rather them put the effort invested into the MP more into the SP. Uncharted 4's MP was actually pretty good though, although it didn't really grab me, definitely their best effort towards MP and it was fun still for sure.
For the sake of the people that like it, I don't mind them keeping it the same, just for me and fellow trophy hunters, don't require me to play TONs of matches of something I don't really enjoy,

 

[The Artisan]

I feel like it'd be such a minor thing to have as a separate playlist.

LoU already had a few playlists and that was mostly due to help with the population. 3 modes, with 2 submodes (party vs no parties). This was a good priority as people hated facing pre-made parties.

Having the same playlists just for the inclusion of clickers seems wasteful and redundant. This isn't COD, where they can have like 14 playlists and expect people to find matches in them all. Why make a repeat playlist with a small twist when they can make a new mode, like they did with interrogations?

If you feel like it is a minor thing then why do you take issue with such a playlist being included?

Right, this isn't cod, this is tlou where clickers exist. It's not a small twist by any means; your frustration at the idea proves it'd be an addition that'd make all the matches fundamentally different.

Why waste efforts on adding clickers to PvP when they can just make a full fledged co-op mode, which will definitely be a much better sell?

Well first of all it wouldn't be a waste.

And second of all, I thought I explained in the OP why I want this mode so bad but it was quite a while ago that I posted it, here's why:

I came up with this idea when I thought about the Walking Dead season 4 midseason finale; it was a battle between Rick's group at the prison, and the governor's group trying to take it. Both teams shooting at each other eventually had to deal with the threat of zombies coming in and they don't distinguish between people; they're all meat to them.

Tlou's multiplayer is supposed to be part of tlou's universe, so it'd be appropriate and in my opinion quite interesting and different to have a team-based competitive mode where players have to deal with the the apocalyptic threat of the world as well as the multiplayer agenda.

 

[Moofers]

I trust the good folks at Naughty Dog to do right by the characters and the fans, so if they say they have another part to the story then I think that sounds great. I'm in.

While I loved the multiplayer in the first game, what I'd really like to see is a 4-6 player co-op survival mode where you face waves of enemies. Something closer to Gears of War than CoD zombies. I'd like to craft tools and build fortifications and the like. We could have waves where we fight invading armies from other factions (hunters/fireflies/etc) and then waves where various infected swarm in. Then we could even get waves where you get a mix of both and it becomes a crazy 3-way battle.

I hope they consider co-op like this.

 

[SSReborn]

In all seriousness in terms of mp they shouldn't change to much.

I would just add a more refined hunter/firefly customization.

An actual 3d representation to the metagame, like imagine you have an actual settlement where people are doing all the actions that the text said and you can customize the settlement and group up with friends/clan there, then you get like little mini objectives like go retrieve firewood and you gotta win matches to do that. Plus you can actually see the effects of your losses like people in your settlements dying off.

Then you can have a co-op that ties into this meta a bit. You can have actual hunter or infected attacks and you have to fend them off solo or co-op with friends.

The base gameplay was fine maybe just making some movements slightly smoother. Also fixing small things like not being able to shoot a nail bomb and wasting a lot of ammo on that. I wouldn't add to it too much some more crafting items could work too.

 

[Åesop]

Please no clickers in regular pvp MP wtf..
- add a separate co-op PvE playlist for all the people that keep nagging about a horde mode..
- I'd like Naughty Dog to actually support and advertise the MP more openly
- create an optional competitive environment, where you can build a clan with friends and fight against other clans for resources/ rewards

 

[Alienous]

I do this vs. MP should have a zombie mode.

Just have them spawn in areas of the map and wander within that area. Spawn bricks and bottles too, allowing players to use Clickers against their enemies.

 

[tootie923]

I wouldn't mind something like Uncharted 2 & 3's co-op adventure, short half-hour levels with mini-objectives (thinking also of Splinter Cell Conviction co-op modes). Players scavenge for supplies while avoiding human enemies and/or infected. They could use single player environments like in the UC games. Single player campaign would be untouched, of course.