I really want to punch someone in the god damn face every time I hear this.
Holy shit.
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The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker HD is $59.99 at Amazon
- Thread starter NR1
- Start date
I really want to punch someone in the god damn face every time I hear this.
Holy shit.
Aw. You were making an effort before. Now you're just phoning it in.
Vane_MagicCity
Banned
I really can't afford to be throwing money around just because I like some of Nintendo's previous games, consoles and handhelds. So far the Wii U just hasn't impressed me and as a consumer, my job is to save money.
You get a sense of how strong the Zelda brand is, when such a discussion can reach 16 pages in few hours on a saturday. I'm glad to see people so much invested into it, as this series is for me the pinacle of this medium. People care for it, wondering if they will be able to afford it or find it cheaper: count on me to share the best deals I find on the net.
Refreshment.01
Member
Is not a remake, no extra content or reworked models and environments just some shaders and tweaks. Is not something like say Ocarina 3D or Resident Evil 1 Remake, which is a damn fine example of a Remake Done right.
Just compare this HD edition with something like Halo Anniversary, the game launched with a 40 price tag and as far is i can tell it offered a lot more extra content than what this seems to have.
Just think about for a second.
jts
...hate me...
I have no interest in Halo as a whole, thus, even if it offered the whole Halo series, it would be of less value than a single Zelda game. To me.
That being said, this looks like a remake done right as well, people dismissing it for an HD port with bloom are wrong, simply put. You can disregard that notion altogether.
My complaint against people complaining about price is that it is more than a few minor tweaks and AA it is alot more
Refreshment.01
Member
The above is not relevant to the disscussion. I've brought up multiple examples of remakes that end up offering a lot more than this one and in some cases at a reduced price. So it is in fact overpriced in relative terms.
But why is it a "remake done right"? How do you support that claim? I already said how it doesn't come close to offering what REmake or Anniversary did or offer the content of what one of the recent HD compilations, so at least some examples were brought up.
Tsk...tsk. Don't tell anybody but WW HD cost exactly what The Metal Gear Solid: The Legacy Collection costs. Let that sink for a bit.
Do you get it now?
tiny raptor
Member
jts
...hate me...
You are taking the quality of the original contents off the equation and you can't quite do that. Also, regarding TWW HD there's new mechanics, online interactions, controls and graphical tweaks that go beyond an HD upscaling. Proper.
But dudebro series HD compilations are dime a dozen, I get it.
Refreshment.01
Member
Now you are basically saying: "Zelda > All", which doesn't surprise me.
We are not talking about game quality here, we are talking about if a tweaked HD remastered game is expensive in relation to other remakes or HD remastering compilations. This Zelda remastering doesn't come close to the work done on something like RE 1 remake or come close to offer the value of the recent MGS collection, for example.
Well this true in a sense, but they are tweaks mostly. The game is walking this weird line between HD remastering and remake, withouth getting quite there.
This one was just weird and bitter comment, that im not sure whar compelled you to make in the first place... maybe it was price related?
Rodney McKay
Member
OK, non-"dudebro" remakes released within 2 generations of the original:
Banjo Kazooie for the XBLA: $15
It had widescreen support, improved visuals (60fps, longer draw distance, some higher res elements), improved/tweaked mechanics (total musical notes taken from levels will not reset when you leave), originally planned features added (stop 'n swap), and online features also added (leaderboards/achievements).
...oh wait, I got the game for free with my Banjo & Kazooie: Nuts and Bolts preorder.
Well, Banjo Tooie was also given this treatment and was also only $15, so I guess there's two examples.
Even with a Nintendo tax of 100% I'd say Wind Waker HD is still only a $30 value for me, even though it's one of my favorite Zeldas.
Banjo Kazooie for the XBLA: $15
It had widescreen support, improved visuals (60fps, longer draw distance, some higher res elements), improved/tweaked mechanics (total musical notes taken from levels will not reset when you leave), originally planned features added (stop 'n swap), and online features also added (leaderboards/achievements).
...oh wait, I got the game for free with my Banjo & Kazooie: Nuts and Bolts preorder.
Well, Banjo Tooie was also given this treatment and was also only $15, so I guess there's two examples.
Even with a Nintendo tax of 100% I'd say Wind Waker HD is still only a $30 value for me, even though it's one of my favorite Zeldas.
jts
...hate me...
This is often brought up, but it's always true... the price of something, anything, doesn't come from the cost of producing said thing but from the perceived value of it. Which changes from consumer to consumer.
Otherwise things would get crazy because the price of any single copy wouldn't cover the production costs, and those production costs get diluted over a variable number of sold copies, so prices between games couldn't be compared.
With that said, the amount of perceived work put into something can obviously change people's perception about its value (even its price contributes to that... sometimes stuff can be too cheap for its own sake).
What you get in a $50 package is a long, good/great game, originally released a decade ago, tweaked up, wrapped in a modern packaging, living up to today's standards by all means, competing against any other game for the same $50.
And that's it. If other examples give so much more value for the price, then more power to their publishers and everyone involved, sales will go through the roof.
The dudebro remark was snark mostly... later down the road I'll probably get that MGS collection for my PS3, never got into the series and have intended to for so long. I would say that I'll get it from the bargain bin, but I don't want to sound offensive. It's just the way that these HD collections go, and accelerating now that the PS3 is on the way out too.
H_Prestige
Banned
Give me a break. "New mechanics, controls" just means making the game more playable or fixing problems with the original. This is not unique to WW. Graphical tweaks beyond resolution? Yeah, no shit. It's a remastering. Again, not unique to WW. Games from that era generally need more than a resolution bump in order to not look like ass on a HDTV. That tingle bottle thing isn't some huge addition either.
What I noticed over years on GAF is that this "perceived value" defense is only brought up by people too emotionally attached to a game/system to admit it's overpriced. Do you people honestly believe Zelda WW is going to set new sales records for HD remasters? It won't. So stop with the whole "it's more valuable than other games!" shit. It isn't.
Uncle Rupee
Banned
Nintendo getting greedy, trying to meet Iwata's pie-in-the-sky forecasts for this year I guess.
$29.99 or no sale
It would be worth $49.99 if there were new dungeons or something like a Master Quest mode
$29.99 or no sale
It would be worth $49.99 if there were new dungeons or something like a Master Quest mode
The market does decide. Pointing out that a particular price tends to be the market standard itself concedes that point. Publishers don't value games arbitrarily, or on the basis of goodwill. Nintendo isn't somehow being particularly exploitative - not at all, really. They, like everyone else, are pricing based on people's expectations, preferences, and willingness to buy the product.
In the case of this specific game, we're talking about one of the most prestigious IPs in gaming. The same team behind it is going to make the Wii U Zelda. It's being fully adapted to the Wii U console, both in terms of graphics and GamePad use, and being tweaked around the edges in terms of gameplay. Nintendo apparently expects people to approach buying it with a similar feeling they would to picking up a brand new game, unlike your typical HD collection, so they're pricing it around $10 higher than what is most common.
It's perfectly fine to disagree with that price, but calling this an "obvious cash-grab" seems incoherent to me. Kept in context, nothing about the pricing seems abnormal, as every company's pricing strategy focuses on maximizing profit (with different degrees in short and long term emphasis).
jts
...hate me...
Not to sound snotty (which I have no reason to), but in my case it's difficult to not to throw this around on a price discussion because it comes from my education as I have a bachelor degree in business management. It's just how economics and price setting works.
This game will obviously not sell gangbusters, especially not on the Wii U, but that doesn't prove anything about the price, because you have to take into account the sensitivity of its potential costumers to price variations. Obviously with a lower price it would sell more, but would that difference make up for what Nintendo would lose in sheer price difference from a lower price to what its costumers were willing to pay? I don't know. Also, emotional attachment = brand/IP value = perceived value = price.
But even without selling like crazy, with proper marketing and maybe a bundle, this game can have some nice legs and help the Wii U get going.
Rodney McKay
Member
Not disagreeing with your points, but it seems like a strange business move in addition to being too expensive from a consumer POV. It seems like most people who are A. Zelda Fans and B. Own a Wii U will probably buy this due to there not being many other alternatives, so from that perspective I can understand the high price. But given the Wii U's low sales it seems like they would be better off selling this game cheap to attract new people. Given that it's not a brand new game they will probably still make profit even at a lower price.
There's the rumor that Nintendo will do a Wii U + WWHD bundle which would help get new customers interested (as long as the System+game is a discount), but if that bundle doesn't happen I can't imagine there will be a huge rush of new Wii U buyers for this game, especially if you consider there's a brand new Zelda (sequel to a much loved Zelda) coming to the 3DS (owned by quite a lot of people at this point).
Are you pretending that anything aside from perceived value is relevant? That's essentially the entire driving force behind pricing decisions. To the extent that objective value even exists, it only matters in terms of how perceived value is affected. Far from automatically implying your judgment is compromised by emotional attachment, bringing up perceived value is simply an acknowledgment of reality.
Zelda, along with Nintendo, are uniquely prestigious brands. Nintendo is making the judgment that the main audience they're selling this game to will likely be willing to buy WW HD at a higher price than the typical HD remaster. You can disagree with that, but I don't really see how it's relevant if WW HD makes sales records or not (it almost definitely won't).
Yeah, I actually don't disagree with anything you said here, either. I've no idea if Nintendo set the right price in terms of how their bottom line will be affected. It's mainly the "exploitative" angle that I don't see eye to eye with.
Nintendo is selling their first party games below 50 on Wii U, which is great. Pikmin 3 at that price is a steal.
Zelda is a legendary brand and this remake will be the best looking Zelda ever put on a shelf, on a demo kiosk or in a commercial. Its selling potential is far higher than Pikmin 3 or Wonderful 101, two new games that will share the same price. So maybe the money you planned to put on this known Zelda will go instead to one of these two new and affordable gems. And everyone will make a good deal.
Zelda is a legendary brand and this remake will be the best looking Zelda ever put on a shelf, on a demo kiosk or in a commercial. Its selling potential is far higher than Pikmin 3 or Wonderful 101, two new games that will share the same price. So maybe the money you planned to put on this known Zelda will go instead to one of these two new and affordable gems. And everyone will make a good deal.
they can't do a GC VC without reworking some game's controls since the current controllers don't support the analog shoulder buttons the GC pad had and some games are unplayable without those.
if they're going to have to modify the games, better go all the way and sell them as HD remasters i guess. also, a part of the GC library was already reworked for Wii.
Lordwindowlicker
Member
Yours is an incorrect statement.
Pikmin 3 is an RTS. Market conditions have been making RTS games go F2P over the past few years. Only Nintendo is arrogant enough to charge full priced one when most of their competition has gone free. Most of those RTS games bundle quite a few modes at that price, too.
jts
...hate me...
Rogue_Ledr
Banned
I don't understand why they didn't upgrade the soundtrack.
How much would it have cost them to make the soundtrack fully orchestral.
Look at what those Zelda ReOrchestrated guys did with the Twilight Symphony CD!!?!?! They made a fully symphonic Twilight Princess soundtrack for a VERY puny amount of money.
They could've hired those guys and did a fully orchestral soundtrack for a pittance!
How much would it have cost them to make the soundtrack fully orchestral.
Look at what those Zelda ReOrchestrated guys did with the Twilight Symphony CD!!?!?! They made a fully symphonic Twilight Princess soundtrack for a VERY puny amount of money.
They could've hired those guys and did a fully orchestral soundtrack for a pittance!
I am Michael Bolton
Banned
The last quality Zelda game was WW. It's been pretty crappy eversince.
Gillian Seed
Banned
Pretty much. Twilight Princess was good, but something was off. It feels like it tried to be so much like Ocarina Of Time, that it ended up losing its Soul. And I know some loved Skyward Sword, but I just couldn't get used to the controls. I loved that art style though.
Gamecube and PS2 games are good enough looking to me.
Yes, yes, because you know exactly what goes into creating such. Opinion is not fact or reality.
I am Michael Bolton
Banned
The art style was massacred by the shitty resolution of the Wii. After seeing the art style of LttP 2 I dont have much faith in Nintendo getting back to their once quality Zelda games.
Gillian Seed
Banned
Yeah I am not a fan of the art style of Between Worlds either. It looks like some cheap indie game. But I am still excited to play it, since I have faith that the game play will be awesome.
I am Michael Bolton
Banned
I'll still buy it simply because I've been asking for a LttP sequel/remake since I finished LttP back in 1992. Unfortunately this wasnt what I had in mind :/
Gillian Seed
Banned
I hear you.
Zelda TP was a god tier game, and SS almost too despite some structure/pace issues. The notion they didn't have that Zelda quality is highly debatable.
DashReindeer
Lead Community Manager, Outpost Games
It's funny, I saw this thread and was excited to be able to get the game at a reduced price. Then I came inside and realized what was really going on. I can't totally understand why some people would view this as too expensive, but I was fully expecting this, as Nintendo needs to position this as another premier title on the Wii U, not as a second string remake. Nintendo can't do that at a budget price point. Not really.
YoYo Switch
Banned
wait, why is everyone complaining about the price? I thought this was a full HD remake with new character models, textures etc. The other hd collections are just up ports with no work done to the original games.
it's not
People were saying the same thing before OoT3D came out. I don't think the price will drop that much, but I don't think it will go out of print either. Nintendo knows that this is an evergreen title that will sell well over the course of the Wii U's life.
YoYo Switch
Banned
Seriously?? That's what it sounded like during the nintendo direct. Forgive my ignorance, but what is telling us otherwise?
ICO & SoTC collection, GoW collection, ZoE collection, MGS collection
But yes this seems to have a lot of work put into it.
Almost no point in arguing the price about anything, since it is your own perception of value
Having that said, i own the GC version and there are a ton of games coming out this year, so this will wait. Its not something i need to apply, mere interest in seeing the game in a higher resolution
I picked up Skyward Sword brand new for 12 euros, uncharacteristic for a Nintendo game to crash that much in price, so hoping the same here in a few months.
Having that said, i own the GC version and there are a ton of games coming out this year, so this will wait. Its not something i need to apply, mere interest in seeing the game in a higher resolution
I picked up Skyward Sword brand new for 12 euros, uncharacteristic for a Nintendo game to crash that much in price, so hoping the same here in a few months.
Marc^o^ is right with his image. They only touched up some effects and textures. But if you look at some comparison videos on YouTube, you will see that a lot stayed the same. It's not a full remake like Resident Evil or MGS Twin Snakes. It's an enhanced port - adding features here and cutting features there. That's why they were able to produce it this quickly.