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The Milo Molyneux Thread of SHIT! SciFi Just Got Real

How can they expect anyone to buy into this? First things first, if you're using pre-recorded voice, even a real brain doesn't do you the least bit of good. When the AI sounds like Speak-N-Spell or an automated phone menu, then I'll believe it at least has the potential to make up its own answers.

"Let's play Global Thermonuclear War." "Wouldn't you prefer a nice game of chess?"
 
joey_z said:
Fair enough. Never played Pheonix Wright but I guess I understand what you're saying. Personally I've always been interested in the art of persuasion. I think it's a lot more than just words and it's fun to tinker with the different variables to get a person to do what you want them to do.

Mass Effect is a good example for text persuasion. The AI is practically non existent while you're building up your evil points and then you magically have the ability to negatively persuade someone in concerned conversations. That's not immersion and that didn't move gaming forward.

If you're happy with the gaming industry lagging behind tech innovations then I guess you wouldn't be bothered with this product. If on the other hand you would like to, say, manipulate your enemy in the next Fable game with machiavellian tact all while talking like you would to a real person, then I could see this tech being of interest to you.

Edit: Also, you could always have the choice to just work with text conversations. But after talking to an NPC that is trying to discern what you really mean, for it to have a reason to doubt your words, I think that kind of immersion would be too enticing to turn away from.
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I guess I'm being a little snarky but I think AI in games like Fable/Mass Effect still have a lot of room for improvement even before we get to intergrating this type of tech. I liked Fable 2 but the NPC AI was a complete joke and I find it a little hard to believe that Peter M. was able to make this kind of generational leap in AI in just a little over a year after that was released. If in the future they could find a way to make something like this more natural I guess it would be silly to still use text branches but I'm still not sure I could ever get used to having conversations with fake people. I'm so old fashioned that way...

And play PW as ASAP, you have no idea what you're missing.
 
I can not wait for this to come out and everyone to realize that, once again, Molyneux has pulled another one over on them. Oh, how I'll crow.

Or maybe you guys are right and Molyneux will apply magic and it will be everything the video promises. God help me, I hope you're right. But you're not. And the laughing you hear will be, well, everyone.
 
Pele just shot himself in the foot.

I don't know how much the rest of you know about Portuguese culture (I'm an expert), but honor and shame are huge parts of it. It's not like it is in America where you can become successful by being an *******. If you screw someone over in Portugal, you bring shame to yourself, and the only way to get rid of that shame is repentance.

What this means is gamers, after hearing about this, are not going to want to buy Pele based Metal Gear games, nor will they buy his sequels. This is HUGE. You can laugh all you want, but Pele has alienated an entire gaming base with this move.

Pele, publicly apologize and state that you will only make Metal Gear Rising for the PS3 exclusively or you can kiss your business goodbye.

*Toasts wine glass full of milk*
 
The idea that the first place we'd see AI this good would be in a video game, one developed by Peter Molyneux no less, is one that should inspire extreme skepticism in any rational observer. The number of unsolved problems in voice recognition alone, let alone fast natural language parsing, are the reason games like this, while interesting conceptually, are in practice firmly set a fair distance off in the future.
 
mr jones said:
Its sort of sad that perversion is what came to mind with most of you after seeing that video. That didn't pop into my head at all until reading some of your posts.
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Yeah well, that's what happens when you're dealing with a group of which many can't understand a virtual character not meant for harming.

Don't fool yourselves guys, this product may not live up to the hype, but it's a step towards the inevitable. Just like plenty of people are willing to buy into barbie dolls, talking action figures, furbies, pokemon, dating sims and pet simulators, there will be a market for intelligent interactive AIs. Don't like the boy? I'm sure Microsoft would have plenty of other characters to sell to you. The mind boggles at the bank that Disney and Mattel would stand to make.
 
joey_z said:
I think the development of NPC interaction is fundamental to the future of western rpgs and other genres. There's an extent to how far the AI can react to written sentences. Giving it two more options to react to would create for more realistic NPC interaction. What do you find wrong in that? Would you feel awkward talking to a screen? There could be an option for you to switch to text conversation. But I think most people would be intrigued and actually find it fun to be able to win over friends, barter with tradesmen and threaten other characters using spoken words and expression. It would be quirky but enjoyable.

Video games allow you to do things you wouldn't be able to normally. Making the interaction more realistic in a world far removed from reality makes the experience all the greater.
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Voice recognition, for one. Sure it can get better, but it's never going to be perfect. Hell, I've got a sore throat and now the game I want to play is a hassle! Or hell, I haven't played a game in English in years. Is it going to like my Japanese pronunciation?
How about outside interference for another. My girlfriend asks me a question and now the guy misunderstands it and my conversation is ruined! I'm sure more could be thought of but it just instantly screams "hassle" and not "interesting" to me.

I just can't picture it actually being entertaining when it's no doubt going to be inefficient. Probably be fun to fuck around with but nothing really that gripping.

Anyway, those who are saying "You don't know what this means!" are ignoring the real research being done. This isn't being done for research. This is for Molyneux's ego and you're a fool to think otherwise.
 
Interesting concept, but it's Molyneux: promises a delicious chocolate cake and delivers a pile of dog turd with a fancy icing. Looks quite similar, but tastes totally different :)

But maybe i will be proven wrong this time.

.pettersson
 
Sharp said:
The idea that the first place we'd see AI this good would be in a video game, one developed by Peter Molyneux no less, is one that should inspire extreme skepticism in any rational observer. The number of unsolved problems in voice recognition alone, let alone fast natural language parsing, are the reason games like this, while interesting conceptually, are in practice firmly set a fair distance off in the future.
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Your first sentence could also include "running on a machine with the 360's computational power".
 
K.Jack said:
Your first sentence could also include "running on a machine with the 360's computational power".
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Ehhh, I guess, but while power is also a problem ATM the more important one is simply that we don't have good enough algorithms yet, which is something that would be true whether it was running on a 360 or a supercomputer.
 
RevenantKioku said:
Voice recognition, for one. Sure it can get better, but it's never going to be perfect. Hell, I've got a sore throat and now the game I want to play is a hassle! Or hell, I haven't played a game in English in years. Is it going to like my Japanese pronunciation?
How about outside interference for another. My girlfriend asks me a question and now the guy misunderstands it and my conversation is ruined! I'm sure more could be thought of but it just instantly screams "hassle" and not "interesting" to me.

I just can't picture it actually being entertaining when it's no doubt going to be inefficient. Probably be fun to fuck around with but nothing really that gripping.

Anyway, those who are saying "You don't know what this means!" are ignoring the real research being done. This isn't being done for research. This is for Molyneux's ego and you're a fool to think otherwise.
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Have a sore throat? You could probably play that game in text option. I'm sure written dialogues aren't hard to programme. And the whole point behind voice recognition technology is that it can recognize your voice and tell you apart from your annoying girlfriend :P

I don't think realism is the aim of every game developer, nor should it be. Some games make a concentrated effort to carry realistic identifiable traits of our every day lives and implement it in a completely alien world just so we can believe in that world more.

With your argument, game series like Metal Gear Solid or Final Fantasy wouldn't have to bother themselves with something like the development of character facial expression just because it's being done for the sake of being realistic. Yet, I'd wager most people like it because it makes the story all the more enjoyable, the world more lively and the characters more interesting. You can be pulled out of a sci fi movie because of shit actors. Likewise, people care more for a story if the game is more immersive.

Not every game wants to be realistic. Some games just care about gameplay while others try to create a cinematic experience. This technology could really help the latter.
 
joey_z said:
Have a sore throat? You could probably play that game in text option. I'm sure written dialogues aren't hard to programme. And the whole point behind voice recognition technology is that it can recognize your voice and tell you apart from your annoying girlfriend :P

I don't think realism is the aim of every game developer, nor should it be. Some games make a concentrated effort to carry realistic identifiable traits of our every day lives and implement it in a completely alien world just so we can believe in that world more.

With your argument, game series like Metal Gear Solid or Final Fantasy wouldn't have to bother themselves with something like the development of character facial expression just because it's being done for the sake of being realistic. Yet, I'd wager most people like it because it makes the story all the more enjoyable, the world more lively and the characters more interesting. You can be pulled out of a sci fi movie because of shit actors. Likewise, people care more for a story if the game is more immersive.

Not every game wants to be realistic. Some games just care about gameplay while others try to create a cinematic experience. This technology could really help the latter.
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Incorrect. Just a different (well, overlapping) set of problems. In fact, it would make things even more difficult for Molyneux's program, I suspect, since it appears to rely on tone of voice for contextual clues that do not exist in written communication.
 
Sharp said:
Incorrect. Just a different (well, overlapping) set of problems. In fact, it would make things even more difficult for Molyneux's program, I suspect, since it appears to rely on tone of voice for contextual clues that do not exist in written communication.
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This is the sort of research being done for aspergers syndrome. There is no way that Lionhead proprietary software will be able to recognize emotion in any meaningful or consistent way. Or if it does, lionhead will be working on things other than games very soon.
 
bistromathics said:
This is the sort of research being done for aspergers syndrome. There is no way that Lionhead proprietary software will be able to recognize emotion in any meaningful or consistent way. Or if it does, lionhead will be working on things other than games very soon.
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Eh, none of the "emotional recognition" stuff from the video I saw was out of reach of Molyneux or his team. Seemed to be mostly raising and lowering of pitch, very overly exaggerated at that. But you're right, at this stage all of the supposed "emotional response" was most likely scripted and there's no real way to tell how much of an impact it will have on the final engine.
 
The technology behind this looks cool and interesting, but I'm sure that it requires the player to "play along" to a large degree in order to keep things running smoothly. Given where AI advances are at this point, I'm sure it will be very easy to go outside the bounds of what this tech is capable of and break it if the player is interested in doing so.

I think we'll see an even greater tendency for people's preconveived notions to color their experiences with games based on this tech than we already see with current games.
 
joey_z said:
Have a sore throat? You could probably play that game in text option. I'm sure written dialogues aren't hard to programme. And the whole point behind voice recognition technology is that it can recognize your voice and tell you apart from your annoying girlfriend :P

I don't think realism is the aim of every game developer, nor should it be. Some games make a concentrated effort to carry realistic identifiable traits of our every day lives and implement it in a completely alien world just so we can believe in that world more.

With your argument, game series like Metal Gear Solid or Final Fantasy wouldn't have to bother themselves with something like the development of character facial expression just because it's being done for the sake of being realistic. Yet, I'd wager most people like it because it makes the story all the more enjoyable, the world more lively and the characters more interesting. You can be pulled out of a sci fi movie because of shit actors. Likewise, people care more for a story if the game is more immersive.

Not every game wants to be realistic. Some games just care about gameplay while others try to create a cinematic experience. This technology could really help the latter.
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The difference is we are talking about player action versus player inaction. Facial expressions hardly require anything on my part and don't make the gameplay more cumbersome or give it potential for being cumbersome.

Voice recognition between people doesn't just "happen" it has to be set up. That's even a bigger boat to get out of the harbor.

I guess I'm just thinking of games we'll see in my lifetime. Anything using this technology will probably be cumbersome and annoying for a full game. I'd rather see it as tech demos, where honestly a lot of things belong.
 
Danielsan said:
Creepy and super scripted.
A.I isn't that advanced yet. I'd like to be proven wrong though

Peter Molyneux sure loves his hyperbole and he never ever manages to deliver.
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I see this all the time, and frankly I think it's bullshit. Molyneux loves to do very, *very* simple social experiments. That bit where he got excited over how people would bend down to catch the imaginary goggles? That's the kind of stuff he's been doing for years, in almost all his games. They aren't deep, they aren't involving. They are just little momentary glimpses into your character, the way you interact with things.

Edit: It depends on how good the tech is of course, but the concept of emotion recognition is pretty simple, it just requires establishing a unique database to prevent relying on exaggerations. I hate to jump the gun, but I truly boggle at the possibilities if something like this gets included by default in the next generation of consoles.
 
I don't think she actually drew the fish on the piece of paper, is seemed like marker never touched the surface. She pointed the drawing at the camera and it recognized a piece of paper and probably a predrawn fish if even that, but we never saw the actual drawing.
 
This stuff is so advanced that it looks like it can predict the player's actions :O :O

In the gamersyde video, at 2:41, it really looks like the on-screen chick moves and touches the water before the RL one does. So, huh, yeah...
 
Raist said:
This stuff is so advanced that it looks like it can predict the player's actions :O :O

In the gamersyde video, at 2:41, it really looks like the on-screen chick moves and touches the water before the RL one does. So, huh, yeah...
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Another impressive technological display by Molyneux, soon to be followed by the first psychohistorical game. Or, y'know, it's scripted.
 
I'd love nothing better than for this to be legit. Unfortunately, I don't think we're capable of coding the kind of AI and natural language processing software something like this would actually require. And even if such a thing was somehow possible, I think it would require a lot more processing power than an X360 has under the hood. I also think when something like this actually does come to pass, it'll be the product of a university or military IT project, not some game developer with a history of overpromising and underdelivering.
 
Too bad you can't make a game out of it. It's perfect for pedophiles and counseling sessions for women who've lost a son.
 
If this worked, it'd be just about the greatest thing ever. Obviously it won't though. The first time you try anything that the kid can't respond to the whole thing spoiled.

Molyneux needs to be a little more grounded, I'd hoped over the years of constantly failing to deliver his ridiculous promises that he might have calmed down, seems not.
 
Am I the only one who wants to torture this child and see if he develops terror and nervous ticks? I want him to run away when he sees me, and if cornered I want him to crawl into a ball and rock back and forth.

Can I put him in a pool, pull out the ladder and watch him drown?

No wonder I like Bioshock.

WTF is wrong with me?
 
stuburns said:
Molyneux needs to be a little more grounded, I'd hoped over the years of constantly failing to deliver his ridiculous promises that he might have calmed down, seems not.
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what was it that he promised here?
 
Tylahedras said:
Am I the only one who wants to torture this child and see if he develops terror and nervous ticks? I want him to run away when he sees me, and if cornered I want him to crawl into a ball and rock back and forth.

Can I put him in a pool, pull out the ladder and watch him drown?

No wonder I like Bioshock.

WTF is wrong with me?
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:lol That would have made for a far more interesting tech demo.
 
stuburns said:
Molyneux needs to be a little more grounded, I'd hoped over the years of constantly failing to deliver his ridiculous promises that he might have calmed down, seems not.
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No he really doesn't. There needs to be more people like Molyneux always pushing the boundaries of what's possible and dreaming up shit that isn't even currently possible. Grounded gets us Tony Hawk Pro Skater 36, I'll take over promise any day.
 
soco said:
exactly.

all aboard the popular train! we can't think for ourselves!
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What? Okay he didn't say 'I promise', but he did present a technology demo as if it were truly interactive and working like that, and it's not, because it's impossible.
ElectricBlue187 said:
No he really doesn't. There needs to be more people like Molyneux always pushing the boundaries of what's possible and dreaming up shit that isn't even currently possible. Grounded gets us Tony Hawk Pro Skater 36, I'll take over promise any day.
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I'd agree if he'd ever delivered anything that is an advancement on everyone else, but he hasn't.
 
ElectricBlue187 said:
No he really doesn't. There needs to be more people like Molyneux always pushing the boundaries of what's possible and dreaming up shit that isn't even currently possible. Grounded gets us Tony Hawk Pro Skater 36, I'll take over promise any day.
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In research, yes. Not in "making shit and expecting me to pay $60 for it".
 
Tylahedras said:
WTF is wrong with me?
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Kind of scary to think that some peoples' first reaction when encountering a real AI would be to try to find ways to hurt it. Especially when it's representing as an avatar of something harmless, like a child.

The idea of Skynet wanting to wipe out humanity suddenly doesn't seem so farfetched. :p
 
Jirotrom said:
there is no way this is real
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Depends on what Peter Molyneux is trying to build.

The scene played out on the video HAS to be mostly scripted. I DO NOT believe that he has produced an AI that is capable of (1) synthesizing language to produce grammatically correct sentence (2) synthesizing sounds to produce natural speech so fluently. These have been worked on for DECADES in AI with a ton of money behind it (don't forget the US military are trying to build their own, and they have a fuckton of money) and they've made progress but nowhere near what Peter Molyneux's Milo APPEARED to demonstrate.

It's not real if that's what he's trying to build and give an impression of. It's good marketing though. If anything Peter has always been good at selling.
 
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