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[Stumpokapow]

So, does anyone know anything else? Star Trek, BSG, Babylon 5, Farscape and Stargate (sort of) , after that what is the best, in space science fiction show?

Here's a bunch of sci-fi shows besides the ones you mentioned where the main protagonists are travellers in space-ish ships-ish. I'll bold the ones I liked enough from what I've seen of them that I'd recommend people give a chance:
Andromeda
Cowboy Bebop *
Defying Gravity *
Doctor Who
Earth 2
Firefly
Futurama
Hyperdrive
Lexx
Odyssey 5
Seaquest DSV *
The Secret Adventures of Jules Verne *
Space 1999
The Starlost
Tripping the Rift

* = You might consider this cheating to include it

For all you guys who are sci-fi nerds, none of you seem to have watched much sci-fi

 

[DrForester]

Here's a bunch of sci-fi shows besides the ones you mentioned where the main protagonists are travellers in space-ish ships-ish. I'll bold the ones I liked enough from what I've seen of them that I'd recommend people give a chance:
Andromeda
Cowboy Bebop *
Defying Gravity *
Doctor Who
Earth 2
Firefly
Hyperdrive
Lexx
Odyssey 5
Seaquest DSV *
The Secret Adventures of Jules Verne *
Space 1999
The Starlost
Threshold *
Tripping the Rift

* = You might consider this cheating to include it

For all you guys who are sci-fi nerds, none of you seem to have watched much sci-fi

seaQuest totally counts.

 

[sangreal]

I actually started rewatching Andromeda, and it is somehow worse than I remember. Its seriously just Hercules in space (also rewatched Hercules on Netflix. That finale, wtf). I guess the creator got fired for trying to make it less episodic, but it does seem to have an ongoing story arc even in the later seasons

 

[Stumpokapow]

Just rewatched "The Game" (Ashley Judd and Wesley Crusher save the Enterprise D from the game Riker brings back from Rysa 4).

The whole episode makes no sense. Riker brings back the game, everyone on the Enterprise gets addicted. Beverly Crusher tries to get Wesley to play, but he's going on a date with Ashley Judd's character. This is the first time Wesley has heard of the game. Ashley Judd and Wesley start talking about the game. Wesley, who can clearly just go play the game, asks "How does it work?" Ashley Judd says he should play it. He then responds "I'd like to know a bit more about the game before I play it." Why? Is he used to games being harmful? Is there some reason to believe a video game is going to hurt him? So there's like 1500 people on the Enterprise D from every culture in the galaxy, and none of them have any objection to playing the video game, except Wesley Crusher who is so skeptical he needs to hook it up to the computer before he uses it. Good thing, too.

Okay, so Ashley Judd and Wesley Crusher then leave their date to go to a computer lab and analyze the game. This is a ten second process that an (admittedly smart) cadet and an ensign are able to do. It's fair to say that if anyone else was concerned about the game, they could have easily did the check he did. But they didn't. And this is a society that forbids alcohol. But no one seems concerned about the game.

The computer reveals that the game stimulates the pleasure center of the brain... and Wesley's immediate reaction is "The whole ship must be addicted to the game and I need an immediate personal audience with the Captain to narc out everyone.

I know Wesley is Space Jesus or whatever, but this is one of the most shockingly dumb Wesley plots in the series.

 

[DrForester]

Just rewatched "The Game" (Ashley Judd and Wesley Crusher save the Enterprise D from the game Riker brings back from Rysa 4).

The whole episode makes sense. Riker brings back the game, everyone on the Enterprise gets addicted. Beverly Crusher tries to get Wesley to play, but he's going on a date with Ashley Judd's character. This is the first time Wesley has heard of the game. Ashley Judd and Wesley start talking about the game. Wesley, who can clearly just go play the game, asks "How does it work?" Ashley Judd says he should play it. He then responds "I'd like to know a bit more about the game before I play it." Why? Is he used to games being harmful? Is there some reason to believe a video game is going to hurt him? So there's like 1500 people on the Enterprise D from every culture in the galaxy, and none of them have any objection to playing the video game, except Wesley Crusher who is so skeptical he needs to hook it up to the computer before he uses it. Good thing, too.

Okay, so Ashley Judd and Wesley Crusher then leave their date to go to a computer lab and analyze the game. This is a ten second process that an (admittedly smart) cadet and an ensign are able to do. It's fair to say that if anyone else was concerned about the game, they could have easily did the check he did. But they didn't. And this is a society that forbids alcohol. But no one seems concerned about the game.

The computer reveals that the game stimulates the pleasure center of the brain... and Wesley's immediate reaction is "The whole ship must be addicted to the game and I need an immediate personal audience with the Captain to narc out everyone.

I know Wesley is Space Jesus or whatever, but this is one of the most shockingly dumb Wesley plots in the series.

Wesley or not, it was just a terrible episode. I stand by calling it one of the worst three TNG episodes.

 

[ThoseDeafMutes]

Kevin Sorbo should be put on trial for what he did to that show in later seasons

HERCULES IIIINNN SPAAAAAAACEEEEEE

 

[Stumpokapow]

Wesley or not, it was just a terrible episode. I stand by calling it one of the worst three TNG episodes.

You mentioning it a page ago is why I gave it a re-watch, hahaha. Glutton for punishment.

 

[hwalker84]

Great stuff in here and alot of things I agree with.

 

[SteveWinwood]

seaQuest was awesome.

 

[Lucky Forward]

And this is a society that forbids alcohol.

Incidental to your point, I thought alcohol was just off-limits on Federation starships. There was something about "synthohol" being an acceptable substitute because its effects could be instantly negated (somehow) in an emergency situation. Of course, someone always seemed to have a bottle of old-fashioned alcohol tucked away somewhere.

 

[DrForester]

Incidental to your point, I thought alcohol was just off-limits on Federation starships. There was something about "synthohol" being an acceptable substitute because its effects could be instantly negated (somehow) in an emergency situation. Of course, someone always seemed to have a bottle of old-fashioned alcohol tucked away somewhere.

Alcohol wasn't illegal (except for Romulan ale), it was just most thought synthohol tasted just fine. It was more the connoisseurs, the Scottish, and for special occasions that the real stuff was used. Guinan had a stock of, and served the real stuff in ten forward.

 

[Stumpokapow]

Incidental to your point, I thought alcohol was just off-limits on Federation starships. There was something about "synthohol" being an acceptable substitute because its effects could be instantly negated (somehow) in an emergency situation. Of course, someone always seemed to have a bottle of old-fashioned alcohol tucked away somewhere.

I don't remember the exact details. Memory Alpha says:

It appears to have the same taste and smell as "real" alcohol to most individuals, but none of the deleterious effects associated with alcohol for most humanoids, such as debilitating intoxication, addiction, and alcohol poisoning.

 

[linkboy]

seaQuest was awesome.

Yes, yes it was (and then NBC fucked it up, bastards).

The first season is one of my favorite seasons of a TV show ever. What I loved about it was how there was a realistic aspect to the show. How it dealt with stuff that could actually happen (minus the Halloween episode) I loved the facts that they had during the end credits of the first season. It really showed what the show was supposed to be about, before NBC TOTALLY FUCKED THE SHOW UP by trying to turn it into Star Trek with a sub.

The minute Roy Schneider left the show, it was done.

Fuck You NBC.

 

[DrForester]

Yes, yes it was (and then NBC fucked it up, bastards).

The first season is one of my favorite seasons of a TV show ever. What I loved about it was how there was a realistic aspect to the show. How it dealt with stuff that could actually happen (minus the Halloween episode) I loved the facts that they had during the end credits of the first season. It really showed what the show was supposed to be about, before NBC TOTALLY FUCKED THE SHOW UP by trying to turn it into Star Trek with a sub.

The minute Roy Schneider left the show, it was done.

Fuck You NBC.

To be fair, season 1 WAS Star Trek with a sub, then they tried to turn it into action shlock, which Star Trek never really was.

 

[Rentahamster]

Farscape is a pretty good science fiction, in space tv show I would also recommend to people.

So, does anyone know anything else? Star Trek, BSG, Babylon 5, Farscape and Stargate (sort of) , after that what is the best, in space science fiction show?

SPACE: Above and Beyond was pretty nifty.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000BCCAEQ/?tag=neogaf0e-20

Babylon5 also had a shortlived spinoff, Crusade, which I thought was cool.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00061QJSK/?tag=neogaf0e-20

 

[Henchmen21]

You guys want a show that was fucked up by meddling.

Earth: Final Conflict (ironically also a Gene Roddenberry show).

First season was great. That quickly turned to hell.

 

[linkboy]

To be fair, season 1 WAS Star Trek with a sub, then they tried to turn it into action shlock, which Star Trek never really was.

Now that I think about that, its true. My point still stands, though.

The first season was really a realistic view of what the future under the sea would be like, which is what I loved about it. From the mining terroists in the pilot episode, to all of the scientific aspects and how the science and military were at odds with each other.

Then we got crap like that prehistoric crocodile, or the episode where they traveled to the future (time travel fucking things up again) and had to get the boy and girl (who were the last humans left) together who were to busy playing Mechwarrior to have sex in the second season, to Michael Ironside taking over in the 3rd season and the science aspect being totally gone.

At least with Star Trek, the producers had enough control over the show to keep things under control. That didn't happen with Seaquest and its why the show died like it did.

I know why NBC messed with the show like they did. It went into its second season (94) right when TNG was wrapping up. They figured Seaquest could be the show to replace Star Trek.

I think if NBC left it alone, the show would have done a lot better. That decision caused Scheider to leave and once he was gone, it was over.

I was 11 when Seaquest was first shown and I totally loved the show.

 

[DrForester]

seaQuest is the reason I hate Michael Ironside. I know he has a lot of fans, but I hate the guy. It was my first exposure to him and to me, he further ruined one of my childhood favorite shows.

 

[googleplex]

Defying Gravity *

Criminally underrated show! There are just not enough realistic Sci-fi shows out there. Pissed me the fuck off when it was canceled

 

[linkboy]

seaQuest is the reason I hate Michael Ironside. I know he has a lot of fans, but I hate the guy. It was my first exposure to him and to me, he further ruined one of my childhood favorite shows.

I don't blame him for it. He was just doing his job (playing the exact same character in everything he's in). I blame NBC for the show even reaching that point in the first place, they don't tinker with it after season 1, Scheider doesn't get pissed and everything is good.

The fact that one of my all time favorite actors in Roy Scheider (yes, even with I was 11) was on Seaquest was one of the biggest reasons why I loved the show. Honestly, the only reason why I would pick up Season 2 is because of Schneider (even though I royally fucking hate the direction the show went).

 

[ThoseDeafMutes]

I hate Michael Ironside.

 

[Loofy]

75% of all Voyager episodes have this exchange at some point in the last 20 minutes of the show:

Tuvok: "Their ship is no match for our defenses."

Janeway: "Open a hailing frequency."

Tuvok: "No response. They are firing... Shields are steady at 89%... Shields are down to 21 percent... Shields are down!"

[Bridge explodes...]

I never quite got why they responded the way they did.

Tuvok: "Shields are holding at 89%"
Janeway: "Ok lets take our sweet ass time to figure out some fancy way to defeat these guys."
vs.
Tuvok: "Shields are down to 89% captain!!"
Janeway: "OMG evasive maneuvers theta 1 fire fazers!!"

 

[Escape Goat]

I never quite got why they responded the way they did.

Tuvok: "Shields are holding at 89%"
Janeway: "Ok lets take our sweet ass time to figure out some fancy way to defeat these guys."
vs.
Tuvok: "Shields are down to 89% captain!!"
Janeway: "OMG evasive maneuvers theta 1 fire fazers!!"

like how Riker let this happen. He had a ship with 1000 people up against a ship with maybe 20 people onboard. No shields but Riker was like "Lets not fire everything. Lets slow down and think this through while we get blown to hell."

 

[SpoonyBard]

like how Riker let this happen. He had a ship with 1000 people up against a ship with maybe 20 people onboard. No shields but Riker was like "Lets not fire everything. Lets slow down and think this through while we get blown to hell."

Maybe just shooting at stuff is too boring for him. Even in Insurrection he had to come up with silly space gas trap instead of firing Enterprises weapons at the bad guys ships.

 

[Cheerilee]

Maybe just shooting at stuff is too boring for him. Even in Insurrection he had to come up with silly space gas trap instead of firing Enterprises weapons at the bad guys ships.

In season 2, Data estimated that Riker only uses traditional tactics 21% of the time. The bulk of the time he just makes things up and is completely unpredictable. And since he so rarely uses traditional tactics, even those tactics have shock value against any opponent who knows him. Unless you're the Borg. Then you fully expect Riker to change nothing and stick like glue to the plan Picard was briefed on.

 

[LakeEarth]

Just rewatched "The Game" (Ashley Judd and Wesley Crusher save the Enterprise D from the game Riker brings back from Rysa 4).

The whole episode makes no sense. Riker brings back the game, everyone on the Enterprise gets addicted. Beverly Crusher tries to get Wesley to play, but he's going on a date with Ashley Judd's character. This is the first time Wesley has heard of the game. Ashley Judd and Wesley start talking about the game. Wesley, who can clearly just go play the game, asks "How does it work?" Ashley Judd says he should play it. He then responds "I'd like to know a bit more about the game before I play it." Why? Is he used to games being harmful? Is there some reason to believe a video game is going to hurt him?

It's been a wihle, but wasn't it that by that point in the episode, he's seen so many people "too into it" that he's suspicious.

Still not a good episode though.

 

[neojubei]

Criminally underrated show! There are just not enough realistic Sci-fi shows out there. Pissed me the fuck off when it was canceled

Same here. Had to buy the remaining episodes on itunes. I hope the show ends up on netflix.

like how Riker let this happen. He had a ship with 1000 people up against a ship with maybe 20 people onboard. No shields but Riker was like "Lets not fire everything. Lets slow down and think this through while we get blown to hell."

Captain Sisko would never let that happen.

 

[DiscoJer]

To be fair, season 1 WAS Star Trek with a sub, then they tried to turn it into action shlock, which Star Trek never really was.

What's funny is that Star Trek was basically a sub in space.

Watch the TV series Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea, especially the later seasons. It really is Star Trek under the sea.

The third season began with Dick Tufeld of Lost in Space playing an evil disembodied brain from outer space. The season continued with a werewolf story that is one of the few episodes to inspire a sequel. In one episode, the Seaview’s officers and crew encountered Nazis who believed World War II was still ongoing. The third season only had two espionage stories and one ocean peril story that were reminiscent of the first season. One of those three stories was about a hostile foreign government trying to steal a strange new mineral with the aid of a brainwashed Admiral Nelson. This espionage story was the end of the third season.

The final two seasons continued the shift towards paranormal storylines that were popular in the late 1960s.[1] Mummies, werewolves, talking puppets, and an evil leprechaun all walked the corridors of the Seaview. There were also fossil men, flame men, frost men, and lobster men.

You also had guys in red shirts (well, jumpsuits) get killed all the time. One guy, Kowalski, I swear gets killed at least once and comes back (like Kyle did in TOS)

And it foreshadowed a lot of the Next Generation thing. The submarine could separate, and you had the dynamic of an old guy on the ship (Richard Basehart) and a young guy that did stuff

 

[Puxador]

I only watched enterprise. That last episode was an abomination. The dog one though (a night in sickbay) I had no problem with.

 

[Coppertracks]

Another terrible fact about 'Threshold': The episode gives them a near instant way home. The tranwarp drive works! Sure it turns them all into lizards, but the Doctor can cure that (he's a hologram so it won't affect him) before the process even started. I'm sure the crew would have risked a bit of quick lizardification to get home in half an hour.

And we can't forget Shades of Gray from TNG S2, a clip show. A piss poor clip show at that. And the season finale. What were they thinking?!

 

[industrian]

Another terrible fact about 'Threshold': The episode gives them a near instant way home. The tranwarp drive works! Sure it turns them all into lizards, but the Doctor can cure that (he's a hologram so it won't affect him) before the process even started. I'm sure the crew would have risked a bit of quick lizardification to get home in half an hour.

I'm more concerned with the fact they left their offspring unattended on an alien planet. I'm pretty sure that's some Prime Directive breaking shit there. God knows what shit those lizards did to the native food chain.

And we can't forget Shades of Gray from TNG S2, a clip show. A piss poor clip show at that. And the season finale. What were they thinking?!

"We're getting cancelled for sure. Another episode to make? I can't really be bothered at all..."

Spoiler

Writer strike + demand for a tight budget IIRC

 

[jaxword]

Could all 4 TNG movies be cut and edited to make one coherent, awesome flick? Incorporate the Nexus' fantasy-fulfillment angle, undo Kirk's idiotic death, actually have Picard solve issues OUTSIDE of punching and shooting...

 

[Lucky Forward]

Spoiler

Writer strike + demand for a tight budget IIRC

Mostly the writer's strike.

 

[MC Safety]

Well part of it has to do with Spock being the previous Captain. Spock could've removed Kirk as first officer at any time, but he didn't. And then Kirk provoked Spock, got the crap kicked out of himself, and then he went all trollface and said "I thought you didn't get angry?" Spock removed himself, because realized that he was freaking out (by his Vulcan standards) and he needed to go lie down.

I'm not sure exactly what you're trying to say here, and I really have no desire to get bogged down in details over first officer appointments and such.

The simple fact is Kirk started a fight on the bridge. That behavior gets you thrown in the brig and put up on charges.

 

[ascii42]

I'm not sure exactly what you're trying to say here, and I really have no desire to get bogged down in details over first officer appointments and such.

The simple fact is Kirk started a fight on the bridge. That behavior gets you thrown in the brig and put up on charges.

Kirk antagonized Spock, but it was Spock who escalated it to physical violence.

You're right, it's still weird how that all worked out though.

 

[JonnyBrad]

While i realise that it was really done for budget reasons, did they ever try an in story explanation of why 98% of Star Trek aliens are humanoid with small changes?

 

[Escape Goat]

While i realise that it was really done for budget reasons, did they ever try an in story explanation of why 98% of Star Trek aliens are humanoid with small changes?

ancient alien race seeded their dna in worlds across the galaxy. I think it was an episode of TNG called "The Chase" or something.

 

[BattleMonkey]

While i realise that it was really done for budget reasons, did they ever try an in story explanation of why 98% of Star Trek aliens are humanoid with small changes?

Yea they had a TNG episode that explained the humanoid races and basically also gave some reasoning why so many of these races could apparently create crossbreed offspring. Course it was just a way to explain away their budgeting

 

[Coppertracks]

While i realise that it was really done for budget reasons, did they ever try an in story explanation of why 98% of Star Trek aliens are humanoid with small changes?

There's a pretty fun TNG episode where the crew, along with competing Klingons, Cardassians and Romulans discover that a much older species seeded their genes into tons of other planets (or something like that) which explains why they look so similar.

IIRC I once read the episode was also going to include Ferengi and Vulcans.

Edit: Damn beaten!

 

[Cheerilee]

I'm not sure exactly what you're trying to say here, and I really have no desire to get bogged down in details over first officer appointments and such.

The simple fact is Kirk started a fight on the bridge. That behavior gets you thrown in the brig and put up on charges.

Insubordinate behavior got Kirk physically thrown off the ship. Spock didn't bother with pressing charges.

Then Kirk found a way back on board. Spock wanted to know how. Kirk insulted his dead mommy. Spock tried to kill him.

Then Spock got a grip and realized that he was acting insane by Vulcan standards, so he removed himself from duty and let Kirk take control.

One doesn't normally become Captain by pissing off the current Captain, but this is an emotionally-compromised Spock we're talking about.

 

[Stumpokapow]

It's been a wihle, but wasn't it that by that point in the episode, he's seen so many people "too into it" that he's suspicious.

There's no on-screen evidence to support that, and even him and Ashley Judd start the conversation by saying "it's just a fad". In fact, Judd tells him he should just try the game, even though she hasn't. That's what makes his random assertion that the game might be dangerous so strange, it's not precipitated by anything.

 

[DrForester]

There's no on-screen evidence to support that, and even him and Ashley Judd start the conversation by saying "it's just a fad". In fact, Judd tells him he should just try the game, even though she hasn't. That's what makes his random assertion that the game might be dangerous so strange, it's not precipitated by anything.

Are you sure? Weren't there people pretty much getting off on the game right there in Ten-Forward during the scene?

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

Vulcans were adapted to their hot, dry planet, so I don't see multi-colored racial types evolving there. It would make as much sense as a black Andorian.

We have seen the blue Andorians and the white Aenar.

 

[Escape Goat]

Maybe just shooting at stuff is too boring for him. Even in Insurrection he had to come up with silly space gas trap instead of firing Enterprises weapons at the bad guys ships.

Riker was supposed to have a keen tactical mind as evidenced by his war games episode. Then whenever hes in the movies he just goes brain dead.

 

[Mama Robotnik]

Clearly humanity has found a cure for homosexuality in the future!

But wait... wasn't there some hot female trill on trill action in ds9?

Ohhhh yeah

(and many other quotes along these lines)

I had a feeling this would come up. I tried to emphasise the complete absence of "human" homosexuality in Trek while writing the OP, and the show seemed almost cowardly in is use of "special circumstances" to barely concede even the existence of gay aliens or people.

Consider "The Outcast", which seems to be often cited as an indirect attempt to tackle the subject of homosexuality. Its actually an episode about gender identity, but even then still extremely shallow in that Riker's love interest is definitively female with none of the supposed gender ambiguity the script seems to be referring to. Rather than simply depict homosexual(s) as equal functioning members of Starfleet (in the same way that TOS had unfairly-demonised people of different racial backgrounds on the bridge with no comment), the series attempted to make a point on a subject that it was too afraid to be overt with. At no point is homosexuality addressed in the episode, at all. Riker discovers an alien who identifies as a woman and has a hetrosexual relationship with her.

"Rejoined" wasn't about Jadzia's love for a woman, it was about the asexual Dax symbiote's love for another asexual symbiote. Its another example of a series of "special circumstances" leading to the gif'd woman on woman kiss. Its a cowardly way to directly avoid addressing the subject of gay people.

There were admittedly bisexual and lesbian aliens in the mirror universe, but its played entirely for comedy and/or shock value and titillation, and is again another example of "special circumstances" - in this case the homosexual behaviour is attributed to the cartoonish mirror universe.

The quotes I provided in the OP would seem to suggest that Rick Berman was behind it. Considering the dipshit was behind most of the decisions that killed Trek (and was distant from DS9 incidentally), I don't find it difficult to believe he was a short-sighted figure repressing any attempt to bring up the role of gay humans in Trek.

The consequence is that, as of Trek canon at present, there are apparently no gay people in the twenty-fourth century. Any apparent same-gender kisses, are always the act of aliens, or possession, or something completely out of the ordinary.

 

[Mama Robotnik]

Just wanted to thank everyone for their awesome contributions too, I've really enjoyed reading the discussion in this thread, and appreciate the nice comments on the OP.

Let's see a Robotnik 10 best moments in Star Trek thread! Unless there was one I missed.

I'll be glad to! I might do a "20 awesomest Trek things" in a few weeks, not ranked but as a chance to expose some of Trek's excellence to non-Trek GAF. I'll try to make some interesting and unexpected choices.

 

[The Librarian]

Give it to me by tomorrow.

 

[TAJ]

Yep, Generations was a mess. Just like how Trek started to go downhill once Braga's Time Travel obsession invaded all the plotlines.

Voyager made a kamikaze run on Bablyon 5? I'm almost sorry I dropped the show so early, lol.

 

[HolyCheck]

dont get why its racist?

if they made an episode about tea sipping english people, would that be?

 

[Meus Renaissance]

like how Riker let this happen. He had a ship with 1000 people up against a ship with maybe 20 people onboard. No shields but Riker was like "Lets not fire everything. Lets slow down and think this through while we get blown to hell."

Not sure how true this is, but I heard that Enterprise design (in the original series) was based on the concept of the flying saucer. Haven't bothered to research it but it doesn't seem to be a coincidence.