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[DrForester]

The racist episode is really funny if you imagine the costume crew in ninja suits going over the the studio where Coming to America was being filmed and stealing all their costumes.

 

[sangreal]

well they do call that section the saucer

 

[Meus Renaissance]

well they do call that section the saucer

Because the design was based on the flying saucer? *shrugs*

 

[ThLunarian]

One moment I came up with the other day that seems to be missing is the first season finale of Enterprise, where Archer wakes up in a land ruled by aliens in Nazi uniforms. It might even be in Washington DC if I'm remembering it right.

I mean seriously, what the hell was that all about.

 

[TAJ]

One moment I came up with the other day that seems to be missing is the first season finale of Enterprise, where Archer wakes up in a land ruled by aliens in Nazi uniforms. It might even be in Washington DC if I'm remembering it right.

I mean seriously, what the hell was that all about.

I never even watched a full episode of Enterprise, but it reminds me of this...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patterns_of_Force_(Star_Trek:_The_Original_Series)

 

[DrForester]

One moment I came up with the other day that seems to be missing is the first season finale of Enterprise, where Archer wakes up in a land ruled by aliens in Nazi uniforms. It might even be in Washington DC if I'm remembering it right.

I mean seriously, what the hell was that all about.

Because after a solid third season, the writers decided the season really needed to stand up to the quality of the first two and totally blew the finale.

 

[brian577]

One moment I came up with the other day that seems to be missing is the first season finale of Enterprise, where Archer wakes up in a land ruled by aliens in Nazi uniforms. It might even be in Washington DC if I'm remembering it right.

I mean seriously, what the hell was that all about.

It was the 3rd season finale.

 

[devenger]

There's no on-screen evidence to support that, and even him and Ashley Judd start the conversation by saying "it's just a fad". In fact, Judd tells him he should just try the game, even though she hasn't. That's what makes his random assertion that the game might be dangerous so strange, it's not precipitated by anything.

I always got the impression that this was what Wesley did on a date. Hooking up the new thingamabob to see how it ticks was kind of his thing. And I remember him being leery of it because people were acting weird.

And yes, it's still a horrible episode. They should have had Wesley save the Enterprise once, on accident.

I've really enjoyed every damn post of this thread. A lot of it has to do with me watching two episodes of Voyager, deciding I wouldn't be following it, and hearing I made the right choice. It just sounds like a trainwreck.

Oh, if an eventual vote starts somewhere down the line, I want to pre vote: Picard.

 

[Loofy]

The consequence is that, as of Trek canon at present, there are apparently no gay people in the twenty-fourth century. Any apparent same-gender kisses, are always the act of aliens, or possession, or something completely out of the ordinary.

Its still a controversial issue so they really cant be blamed for avoiding controversy. When you focus on labels then you arent focusing on the story.
Though I hear Kirk kissing a black woman was supposed to be controversial, was it really? and did that actually turn into an ongoing relationship on the show?(Ive never seen ToS)

 

[DrForester]

Its still a controversial issue so they really cant be blamed for avoiding controversy to focus on the story.
Though I hear Kirk kissing a black woman was supposed to be controversial, was it really? and did that actually turn into an ongoing relationship on the show?(Ive never seen ToS)

Yeah, the Kirk and Uhura kiss was a pretty big deal in its day.

Though despite common belief, it was not the first interracial kiss.

 

[SpoonyBard]

I always got the impression that this was what Wesley did on a date. Hooking up the new thingamabob to see how it ticks was kind of his thing. And I remember him being leery of it because people were acting weird.

And yes, it's still a horrible episode. They should have had Wesley save the Enterprise once, on accident.

It's been a while since I saw that episode (TNG: The Game), but to me it seemed a bit like Wesley became suspicious partly because people weren't paying enough attention to him. He was like "I'm Wesley fucking Crusher, I should be the center of attention, not this stupid game!"

 

[Magnus]

Yeah, the Kirk and Uhura kiss was a pretty big deal in its day.

Though despite common belief, it was not the first interracial kiss.

Oh? What was?

edit- Google wins, nvm.

 

[Cheerilee]

I had a feeling this would come up. I tried to emphasise the complete absence of "human" homosexuality in Trek while writing the OP, and the show seemed almost cowardly in is use of "special circumstances" to barely concede even the existence of gay aliens or people.

[snip]

The quotes I provided in the OP would seem to suggest that Rick Berman was behind it. Considering the dipshit was behind most of the decisions that killed Trek (and was distant from DS9 incidentally), I don't find it difficult to believe he was a short-sighted figure repressing any attempt to bring up the role of gay humans in Trek.

The consequence is that, as of Trek canon at present, there are apparently no gay people in the twenty-fourth century. Any apparent same-gender kisses, are always the act of aliens, or possession, or something completely out of the ordinary.

One more special circumstance for the pile.

In the TNG season 4 episode "The Host", Dr Crusher falls in love with a Trill symbiote named Odan. His host body gets killed and he gets temporarily implanted into Riker. She's creeped out by it, but eventually she gets into it with Riker/Odan.

Then Odan's replacement host arrives, and it's female. Odan is all "All right, party time, let's scissor!" and Crusher says "Ew no."

Odan asks why not. Crusher loved him when he was a male Trill, she loved him when he was Riker, why doesn't she love him when he's a she?

Crusher says it's a case of too many face changes. She "can't keep track." It has nothing to do with the gayness. What gayness? I don't see any gayness. "Perhaps some day, Humankind's ability to love won't be so limited."

 

[Stumpokapow]

It's been a while since I saw that episode (TNG: The Game), but to me it seemed a bit like Wesley became suspicious partly because people weren't paying enough attention to him. He was like "I'm Wesley fucking Crusher, I should be the center of attention, not this stupid game!"

Not ten minutes prior they threw him a surprise welcome in the obs lounge and Worf even cooked for him.

 

[Randy Lanzarote]

Are there any TNG episodes that don't portray Picard as the greatest living gentleman of all time? I mean, don't get me wrong I love Picard, but I'm wondering if there is an episode out there which is Picard's 'In the pale moonlight'?


As for bad Star Trek moments: Temporary enhancements to technology which can never be repeated. Just watching The Nth Degree, 30,000 light years in a blink.... But we forgot to turn the black box on so we don't how to do it again. Derp.

Voyager did it all the time as well, 'Quantum Slipstream? LOL, never again. Our structural integrity would fall apart or something.'

 

[Escape Goat]

Are there any TNG episodes that don't portray Picard as the greatest living gentleman of all time? I mean, don't get me wrong I love Picard, but I'm wondering if there is an episode out there which is Picard's 'In the pale moonlight'?


As for bad Star Trek moments: Temporary enhancements to technology which can never be repeated. Just watching The Nth Degree, 30,000 light years in a blink.... But we forgot to turn the black box on so we don't how to do it again. Derp.

Voyager did it all the time as well, 'Quantum Slipstream? LOL, never again. Our structural integrity would fall apart or something.'

I Borg i guess at least up until a point. He sees Hugh as another Borg drone that is bereft of humanity and beyond redemption. But Picard ultimately has a change of heart and gets over his prejudice. But Rodenberry would be spinning in his grave if Picard ever had a "In the Pale Moonlight" episode

 

[brian577]

Are there any TNG episodes that don't portray Picard as the greatest living gentleman of all time? I mean, don't get me wrong I love Picard, but I'm wondering if there is an episode out there which is Picard's 'In the pale moonlight'?

In the TV series, I Borg is probably the closest thing. The movies this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cGF1NP-FrCU

Voyager did it all the time as well, 'Quantum Slipstream? LOL, never again. Our structural integrity would fall apart or something.'

The worst one was Vis à Vis, they reverse engineer coaxial warp drive, install it on a shuttle craft and it works perfectly only for it to never be seen again. Of course, it would of ended the show, so it makes you wonder why they wrote the episode in the first place.

 

[Randy Lanzarote]

I Borg i guess at least up until a point. He sees Hugh as another Borg drone that is bereft of humanity and beyond redemption. But Picard ultimately has a change of heart and gets over his prejudice. But Rodenberry would be spinning in his grave if Picard ever had a "In the Pale Moonlight" episode

In the TV series, I Borg is probably the closest thing. The movies this:



The worst one was Vis à Vis, they reverse engineer coaxial warp drive, install it on a shuttle craft and it works perfectly only for it to never be seen again. Of course, it would of ended the show, so it makes you wonder why they wrote the episode in the first place.

Good call on I Borg, though he does come good in the end.
Though it was a situation he fell into, 'Pale Moonlight' was all Sisko's doing.

We should've had a Mirror Picard. I'd love to see Evil Picard!

 

[Stumpokapow]

Are there any TNG episodes that don't portray Picard as the greatest living gentleman of all time? I mean, don't get me wrong I love Picard, but I'm wondering if there is an episode out there which is Picard's 'In the pale moonlight'?

In "Conundrum", the entire enterprise crew loses its memory when an alien posing as a human tries to trick them into fighting a war for his people. Picard, having lost his memory, is convinced that his mission is to continue that war, and ends up firing on and destroying multiple ships with people on them for no reason. He eventually gives in rather than massacre the enemy command center, but memory loss or not that's quite a bit of blood on his hands.

 

[SolsticeZero]

I understand all the hate for "rainbow shirt Wesley", but how did people feel about him in the episodes AFTER he actually started going to the academy? I mean

This:

is not equal to this:

 

[Randy Lanzarote]

In "Conundrum", the entire enterprise crew loses its memory when an alien posing as a human tries to trick them into fighting a war for his people. Picard, having lost his memory, is convinced that his mission is to continue that war, and ends up firing on and destroying multiple ships with people on them for no reason. He eventually gives in rather than massacre the enemy command center, but memory loss or not that's quite a bit of blood on his hands.

Ohhh yeah. The thing that always confused me about that episode is why didn't the alien undercover just make himself captain? Why settle for First Officer? Seemed a bit of a stupid decision.


Thinking about it, he was bit of a badass in Starship Mine, he really made some of those hi-jackers suffer (Tuvok seemed to recover though.... )

 

[ThLunarian]

Good call on I Borg, though he does come good in the end.
Though it was a situation he fell into, 'Pale Moonlight' was all Sisko's doing.

We should've had a Mirror Picard. I'd love to see Evil Picard!

I would've loved to see Mirror TNG too. Unfortunately, by the time of TNG in the mirror universe, Earth had been destroyed and humanity had been enslaved so it might have been contrived for them to try and pull off

 

[Shadow Hog]

I would've loved to see Mirror TNG too. Unfortunately, by the time of TNG in the mirror universe, Earth had been destroyed and humanity had been enslaved so it might have been contrived for them to try and pull off

Going by a cursory read-up on the subject on Wikipedia and Memory Alpha, Earth wasn't destroyed... bombarded the hell out of, granted, but it was still inhabitable. I'd think an event as big as that would probably be mentioned.

They did mention the Klingons taking over and enslaving humanity, though. Reminds me of "Yesterday's Enterprise"...

 

[ckohler]

This:

is not equal to this:

I'm glad you posted this because it's true. Most people are quick to give a knee-jerk reaction to Wesley as being terrible based soley in the earlier "rainbow shirt" episodes. His later ones were much better. "Last mission" I think it was called, the one where he and Picard are stranded in that cave, was really good and portrayed him as a strong, competent officer.

I'm not sure why they decided to give him near godlike powers at the end of the series but whatever. Good for him I suppose.

 

[SolsticeZero]

I'm glad you posted this because it's true. Most people are quick to give a knee-jerk reaction to Wesley as being terrible based soley in the earlier "rainbow shirt" episodes. His later ones were much better. "Last mission" I think it was called, the one where he and Picard are stranded in that cave, was really good and portrayed him as a strong, competent officer.

I'm not sure why they decided to give him near godlike powers at the end of the series but whatever. Good for him I suppose.

The uniform changes people, man.

 

[ascii42]

The uniform changes people, man.

Well, if a beard can change an entire TV show.

 

[AbortedWalrusFetus]

You know, at first I wondered why Wesley wouldn't play the game in that episode, but then I realized it was probably because he was a fanboy and wouldn't play games that weren't on his console of choice. Either that or he was a hipster and since it was popular he wouldn't play it. In other words, he did what GAF would do.

 

[Htown]

He was too busy trying to get with Ashley Judd to worry bout vidya gaems.

 

[BattleMonkey]

One more special circumstance for the pile.

In the TNG season 4 episode "The Host", Dr Crusher falls in love with a Trill symbiote named Odan. His host body gets killed and he gets temporarily implanted into Riker. She's creeped out by it, but eventually she gets into it with Riker/Odan.

Then Odan's replacement host arrives, and it's female. Odan is all "All right, party time, let's scissor!" and Crusher says "Ew no."

Odan asks why not. Crusher loved him when he was a male Trill, she loved him when he was Riker, why doesn't she love him when he's a she?

Crusher says it's a case of too many face changes. She "can't keep track." It has nothing to do with the gayness. What gayness? I don't see any gayness. "Perhaps some day, Humankind's ability to love won't be so limited."

I think it was simply.... she wanted dick

 

[evilwart]

Well, if a beard can change an entire TV show.

Beard Rule - When a Starfleet Commander grows a beard, the shows' quality increases. If Chakotay had grown a beard in season 2, Voyager would have been better.

 

[Stumpokapow]

You know, at first I wondered why Wesley wouldn't play the game in that episode, but then I realized it was probably because he was a fanboy and wouldn't play games that weren't on his console of choice. Either that or he was a hipster and since it was popular he wouldn't play it. In other words, he did what GAF would do.

This makes me see the episode in a whole new light

"waiting for superior holodeck port"

 

[GungHo]

I'm glad you posted this because it's true. Most people are quick to give a knee-jerk reaction to Wesley as being terrible based soley in the earlier "rainbow shirt" episodes. His later ones were much better.

To be fair, almost everyone got much better characterizations as the series got past the first two seasons.

Except Tasha.

 

[Davey Cakes]

That's one of the reasons why watching a show like TNG from the beginning, even though it's mostly bad in the first season (with exceptions), is beneficial. You really get to see how the characters developed and how the plots got better/more interesting.

Some people have said things like "start TNG in Season 3" and "start DS9 in Season 4" and while I understand these suggestions, I can't support them. Yeah, you have to put up with some lesser material at first, but the impacts of certain story lines later on are greater when you're not only familiar with the characters, but you're familiar with how they (and the series in general) have changed and/or grown over time.

I couldn't imagine going into an episode like "The Visitor" without having watched the previous three seasons. The impact of that episode would be so much less.

 

[dave_m123]

Some of the best episodes of DS9 are before season 4. Awesome show

 

[Escape Goat]

Beard Rule - When a Starfleet Commander grows a beard, the shows' quality increases. If Chakotay had grown a beard in season 2, Voyager would have been better.

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

I don't think I realized until now that the strips of the rainbow are the three uniform colors used by different types of officers.

 

[Lucky Forward]

That's one of the reasons why watching a show like TNG from the beginning, even though it's mostly bad in the first season (with exceptions), is beneficial. You really get to see how the characters developed and how the plots got better/more interesting.

Some people have said things like "start TNG in Season 3" and "start DS9 in Season 4" and while I understand these suggestions, I can't support them. Yeah, you have to put up with some lesser material at first, but the impacts of certain story lines later on are greater when you're not only familiar with the characters, but you're familiar with how they (and the series in general) have changed and/or grown over time.

I couldn't imagine going into an episode like "The Visitor" without having watched the previous three seasons. The impact of that episode would be so much less.

I agree, I always hear people tell newcomers to check out "The Inner Light", but it really can't have much impact unless you are already familiar with Picard's character and what a change TIL's events represent for him.

I don't think I realized until now that the strips of the rainbow are the three uniform colors used by different types of officers.

 

[DrForester]

I'm glad you posted this because it's true. Most people are quick to give a knee-jerk reaction to Wesley as being terrible based soley in the earlier "rainbow shirt" episodes. His later ones were much better. "Last mission" I think it was called, the one where he and Picard are stranded in that cave, was really good and portrayed him as a strong, competent officer.

I'm not sure why they decided to give him near godlike powers at the end of the series but whatever. Good for him I suppose.

Wesley was still an insufferable know it all, and the poster child for the Mary Sue character, even after the red shit. While I agree that his last regular episode was good (and even "The First Duty was an amazing episode), he was just a really poorly don't character. DS9 handled the kid characters way better. Heck, even the TNG knockoff seaQuest had Lucas, who was a really good character.

 

[firehawk12]

I don't know if this has been mentioned before, but Ezri Dax.

I don't mind Ezri, but I wish when Dax died, she actually died or at least have the "Dax" part go back to Trill or wherever.

 

[DrForester]

I don't know if this has been mentioned before, but Ezri Dax.

I don't mind Ezri, but I wish when Dax died, she actually died or at least have the "Dax" part go back to Trill or wherever.

I think Ezri was pretty well done for only having a single season for development, but I do agree that Dax's new host should have just been a recurring role or just a one off episode.

 

[Mgoblue201]

In "Conundrum", the entire enterprise crew loses its memory when an alien posing as a human tries to trick them into fighting a war for his people. Picard, having lost his memory, is convinced that his mission is to continue that war, and ends up firing on and destroying multiple ships with people on them for no reason. He eventually gives in rather than massacre the enemy command center, but memory loss or not that's quite a bit of blood on his hands.

Unfortunately, Conundrum was a bad episode; one of the low points of season five. There is no Pale Moonlight equivalent for Picard, but at least the episode Family showed that he could be a flawed man who likes to think of his intentions as completely noble but is much more complex than that. It's also a fantastic episode. I'm surprised that it isn't mentioned more often.

 

[Jacobi]

So I watched Body&Soul yesterday. I didn't notice this before, but it finally confirms that
people

Spoiler

use the holodeck for awesome virtual prostitution regularly. At least Tom Paris does...

 

[Cheerilee]

I'm glad you posted this because it's true. Most people are quick to give a knee-jerk reaction to Wesley as being terrible based soley in the earlier "rainbow shirt" episodes. His later ones were much better. "Last mission" I think it was called, the one where he and Picard are stranded in that cave, was really good and portrayed him as a strong, competent officer.

I'm not sure why they decided to give him near godlike powers at the end of the series but whatever. Good for him I suppose.

That was because of the season 1 episode with The Traveller. He said it was Wesley's destiny to become a Mozart of Time and Space who can bend reality to his will.

Just like they used Q to finish Picard's story, they used The Traveller to finish Wesley's. Fortunately/unfortunately, Q became awesome and The Traveller didn't.

 

[Pagusas]

So I watched Body&Soul yesterday. I didn't notice this before, but it finally confirms that
people

Spoiler

use the holodeck for awesome virtual prostitution regularly. At least Tom Paris does...

you could just watch a single episode of DS9 to confirm that, Quark is always talking about those programs.

 

[firehawk12]

I think Ezri was pretty well done for only having a single season for development, but I do agree that Dax's new host should have just been a recurring role or just a one off episode.

Yeah, I don't mind the character, just the fact that they literally made her a Dax replacement.

Of course, this was just producer dickery, because the Jadzia Dax actress asked them not to kill her off so that she could potentially come back later on for guest spots or whatever. Instead, they pissed her off so much that she didn't allow them to use her image for the final montage at the end of the series - which is why she was totally absent when they were going through all the characters in the series.

 

[DrForester]

Yeah, I don't mind the character, just the fact that they literally made her a Dax replacement.

Of course, this was just producer dickery, because the Jadzia Dax actress asked them not to kill her off so that she could potentially come back later on for guest spots or whatever. Instead, they pissed her off so much that she didn't allow them to use her image for the final montage at the end of the series - which is why she was totally absent when they were going through all the characters in the series.

Well come on, at the same time, she ditched them in their last season.

And that montage was awful anyways. Great as DS9 was, that last episode was really weak. Had two very different stories concluding together in a very clumsy way (they should have wrapped up the Sisko stuff prior to the last episode),it jsut didn't work.

 

[Henchmen21]

Yeah, I don't mind the character, just the fact that they literally made her a Dax replacement.

Of course, this was just producer dickery, because the Jadzia Dax actress asked them not to kill her off so that she could potentially come back later on for guest spots or whatever. Instead, they pissed her off so much that she didn't allow them to use her image for the final montage at the end of the series - which is why she was totally absent when they were going through all the characters in the series.

She's also a notorious queen bitch too. She left that sitcom with Ted Danson half way in.

 

[Escape Goat]

They even gave Denise Crosby and Colm Meany new scenes in the finale. Poor poor Terry Farrell.

 

[Qwomo]

Terry Farrell was almost as bad at acting as Avery Brooks.

 

[TAJ]

She's also a notorious queen bitch too. She left that sitcom with Ted Danson half way in.

I didn't know that. But I do know that she fucked Ralph Cirella. :/