What group of people particularly in America don't go through this?
So there's no wrong-doing if others have been subjected to the same?
High-calibre argument, if I ever read one.
What group of people particularly in America don't go through this?
So there's no wrong-doing if others have been subjected to the same?
High-calibre argument, if I ever read one.
Downplaying racism and sexism, inflammatory generalization, history of similar behavior.Interesting you only selected that and ignored the rest of my post which actually talks about what you're saying right now.
FalseThe video also states that this voice actor was "the only one" to be handpicked by the company. Specifically a Vice President of a company who is also the Creative Director of their next high-profile title.
FalseIf ND hand selected a white straight male who was bigoted, the outrage internet culture would be calling for their heads. Funny how we do not hear a peep out of them for this. Oh, they hate the "white man", business as usual.
Can you give us examples of him bending reality?I have watched RobinGaming's video multiple times, and I am a little bit confused because at the end he says he's tired but I cannot really put my hands on what he's tired of. He is nitpicking anecdotal details and even bending reality as if he had an agenda.
Can you give us examples of him bending reality?
What I quoted regarding Lev's actor. He's subtly implying he was handpicked to play the role, and that this is the opposite of what happened for the other character. This is false.Can you give us examples of him bending reality?
What I quoted regarding Lev's actor. He's subtly implying he was handpicked to play the role, and that this is the opposite of what happened for the other character. This is false.
He's implying Chlodine is canon, which it is not.
At 9m23s he exactly says:
"they'll change around characters to fit their narrative." Actually no. Nothing changed in ND's games as far as we currently know.
Their's also an unsourced claim regarding Nathan's daughter that should have been a boy in the first draft. Does anyone have a serious link? Anyway If he has a problem with the gender of Nathan's children then I am worried.
Initially, in the epilogue, it was Nate’s son. Something similar happened with the mansion they go into. That was an old English guy’s house. She asked, “Well, what if it was a woman?”
Yes, he doesn't provide any evidence for that statement. Seems it's just him assuming.He said the only reason that lady was picked to do the interview was that she was a lesbian. That's bending reality.
He says he was handpicked to audition, and that this is different from any other role up till this point. Those are the facts. Any subtlety there I view as him speculating. I mean, he's putting all these examples out there to prove his argument that ND has an agenda. That's the point of the video.What I quoted regarding Lev's actor. He's subtly implying he was handpicked to play the role, and that this is the opposite of what happened for the other character. This is false.
I don't think he implied anything like that. He seems to think they (ND) wish they could have done something like that, but didn't. So they're doing the next best thing: promoting this shipping on Twitter.He's implying Chlodine is canon, which it is not.
At 9m23s he exactly says:
"they'll change around characters to fit their narrative." Actually no. Nothing changed in ND's games as far as we currently know.
He doesn't give the source, but it is based on a real interview given by Druckmann.Their's also an unsourced claim regarding Nathan's daughter that should have been a boy in the first draft. Does anyone have a serious link? Anyway If he has a problem with the gender of Nathan's children then I am worried.
You’ve said in the past that you’ve been influenced by Anita Sarkeesian’s Feminist Frequency videos and the larger conversation about diversity and representation in games. How did that affect Uncharted 4?
When I’m introducing and describing a new character to our lead character concept artist, constantly she will ask, “What if it was a girl?” And I’m like, “Oh, I didn’t think about that. Let me think, does that affect or change anything? No? Cool, that’s different. Yeah, let’s do it.”
Initially, in the epilogue, it was Nate’s son. Something similar happened with the mansion they go into. That was an old English guy’s house. She asked, “Well, what if it was a woman?”
I was wrong. Thank you for the correction."He was hand picked by Neil himself to audition"
He was not hand picked to play the role. He went into auditions like anyone else (at 28m):
(I should say English is not my first language so sorry for any misunderstanding, if any)I think 1 month and 1,000+ comments is a reasonable amount of time for participants to have tackled the concern of a company and its co-president favouring a bigot.
That hasn't happened.
Yeah and as I said each one of this details can be interpreted differently (I made a list with time-stamps but am not sure I would have the energy to go through all of them). For me nothing to be alarmed of.he's putting all these examples out there to prove his argument that ND has an agenda. That's the point of the video.
I take his words. "they'll change around characters to fit their narrative". If we look at the games and what is canon, this is not the case. Now re-tweeting is what people always do on tweeter. I'm pretty sure you can find other fan arts re-tweeted also that do not imply anything.I don't think he implied anything like that. He seems to think they (ND) wish they could have done something like that, but didn't. So they're doing the next best thing: promoting this shipping on Twitter.
Thank you ! I remember reading this interview and the same thing about the old lady in the castle. So now we have a common discussion between game designers, like "should this be red?" "Oh no let's make it blue!", that is presented as pushing an agenda. Please.He doesn't give the source, but it is based on a real interview given by Druckmann.
They were favoured. They were hand-picked to audition by the company's co-president and creative director of the game the acting position was for.(I should say English is not my first language so sorry for any misunderstanding, if any)
Lev's actor was not favored. He auditioned like anyone else.
"He was hand picked by Neil himself to audition"
If you are Neil Druckmann then I am particularly interested in learning more.Like I said, I manage a team of several people. If a position opens, it is perfectly normal that I invite people I know for me to interview them. And to follow normal procedure. They will be compared to others and I'll choose the best candidate.
1. I didn't say the the bigot was favoured, they did.Would you say that Shannon Woodward was favored? She confessed having asked to have a role. How is that a problem for Lev's actor and not her?
I don't know why nobody noticed that in the 1000+ posts from this thread. Maybe Ian Alexander is a dumass, I don't know, he's like 16 years old, I was one at his age. Maybe he was great in The O.A., maybe he is a great actor, maybe he was cast because of that?? Why is it not your first thought given ND's track record?
To show that the creative director inviting people to audition is perfectly normal and does not show any particular "favor" ??If you are Neil Druckmann then I am particularly interested in learning more.
If that isn't the case then I'm not sure what this anecdote brings to the discussion.
How can I say that? A favor would be if from multiple candidates, he would have been chosen despite not being the best for the role.The fact remains: A bigot was favoured by a company co-president and the game's creative director.
Ah maybe I missed that, ND used the word "favored"? If so would you kindly point me to it?I didn't say the the bigot was favoured, they did.
Sorry about that, I quoted also another guy, I saw several persons in the thread referring to this part of the video, but did not quote them all. Nothing personal here.The only time that evidence has been referred to directly is to correct a mistake I made. In that instance, following the details provided in the video down to the exact word is critically important.
As a pedant, I'm 100% on board with that and appreciate it.
I'm going to give my personal opinion. I might offend someone, come off as complete bigot or even as a SJW. But again, this is just my personal opinion.
It's 100% obvious that Naughty Dog is trying to push an agenda. Do I think there's anything wrong with it? I used to think it there was something wrong with it, but I change my opinion over the past several years.
I used to think LBGT characters were being forced and that it was unnecessary because it served little to no purpose at all in some video games. One instance in particular is that of Kung Jin from Mortal Kombat X. I thought I was unnecessary to reveal that he was gay. I thought revealing he was gay served little to no purpose and that NetherRealm Studios just wanted to hop on the bandwagon and make gay character. I had similar reactions after playing The Last of Us: Left Behind when Ellie kissed Riley. I said to myself, "Ok? What's the point?"
After some time, I started to understand why this was happening, and I now I'm completely fine with it.
So, why did my opinion change?
I started to realize things similar things were happening years ago. Back then, the topic mainly focused on racial issues and not gender issues. America had a hard time accepting blacks and interracial relationships within the entertainment and sitcoms and music would push to have interracial couples and relations on screen.
Examples:
"Star Trek" the Interracial Kiss
"All in the Family" Sammy's Visit
"All in the Family" ft The Jeffersons
"Jungle Fever"
"SNL" Richard Pryor and Chevy Chase Job Interview"
Some people are going to say that these are in no way similar to that of what's happening now, but is it really that much different? I know people cringed at seeing Ellie and her girlfriend kiss during the Last of Us 2 gameplay trailer and I know for a fact that people also cringed when they saw Captain Kirk kiss Uhura in the 60's. It took decades for blacks and interracial relationships to be accepted on TV and it started when someone pushed for it be shown on TV. Some of these shows were called defining moments in entertainment because they broke barriers. Someone pushed for it to happen and it's why it's easier for America to accept today.
I started writing stories a few years ago and I finally understand why Neil Druckmann is doing this. He wants to break barriers just like people did before him and It's hard for me to complain about that. When I started writing, I slowly started to think about my audience and how I can reach out to people of all genders and racial backgrounds. I don't want to target just one specific group, I want to target as many as I can without trying to force anything.
I may sound l like some random Neil Druckmann fan, but I really do appreciate his work. Writing and reflecting on things that happened in the past helped me to understand why these things are happening. The ending of Uncharted 4 shows that they could have a female protagonist going forward, but will the series be that much different if another male character took the lead role? I think not.
These are just my opinions and how I feel about the entire situation. I don't really care if anyone disagrees - it's just my own personal opinion.
PS: I know my post has some errors (grammar and spelling) but I'm too lazy to go back and correct them.
That is anecdotal.To show that the creative director inviting people to audition is perfectly normal and does not show any particular "favor" ??
This is unknown.How can I say that? A favor would be if from multiple candidates, he would have been chosen despite not being the best for the role.
To hand-pick someone is to show them favouritism.Ah maybe I missed that, ND used the word "favored"? If so would you kindly point me to it?
Now you tell me!I am sorry I don't really understand what you mean by "bigot".
A person who is obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices; especially : one who regards or treats the members of a group (such as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance
I agree. Going by their previous track record, I'm sure all of Naughty Dog's cast will perform their duties to an extremely high standard.If he's a great actor then this is the only thing that should matter.
I'm tiring too.I'm beginning to be tired also. I am not sure I want to have to go through all the details of the video with so much energy, to show that each one of them can be interpreted in a very normal way, and that the fact that RobinGaming chose to interpret each one of them in one particular direction is what is problematic at this point...
Same here.Nothing personal here.
I mean, that's fair enough. I think he does make a pretty strong case when you put all of that information together, even if some of the examples he brings are a bit weak.Yeah and as I said each one of this details can be interpreted differently (I made a list with time-stamps but am not sure I would have the energy to go through all of them). For me nothing to be alarmed of.
In that section he talks about joking among friends that the two characters will end up in a relationship in the game, and though ultimately that never happened, it is clear ND seems to endorse the shipping of these two characters. They share fan art and retweet posts of fans, but also share art made by ND employees for their 'official' holiday greetings as well, which at the very least hints at a lesbian relationship between the two.I take his words. "they'll change around characters to fit their narrative". If we look at the games and what is canon, this is not the case. Now re-tweeting is what people always do on tweeter. I'm pretty sure you can find other fan arts re-tweeted also that do not imply anything.
We know Druckmann is interested in presenting female characters in a certain way so they can become role models for girls. His goal is to change perception of women and girls (in video games). This particular choice, to change Drake's son into a girl, fits that mould quite snug.Thank you ! I remember reading this interview and the same thing about the old lady in the castle. So now we have a common discussion between game designers, like "should this be red?" "Oh no let's make it blue!", that is presented as pushing an agenda. Please.
I dont see how. Neil Druckmann reached the director of "The O.A." to audition Ian Alexander. How is that not normal?!It also contradicts what the actor said themselves
This holiday greetings card to me does not hint at any lesbian relationship. I see two embarassed women under the mistletoe. It's RobinGaming who wants to see more. And if you look at Druckmann's or NaughtyDog's twitters, you'll see dozen and dozen of re-twitts of fan-arts that are extremely diverse. Why pick those three?They share fan art and retweet posts of fans, but also share art made by ND employees for their 'official' holiday greetings as well, which at the very least hints at a lesbian relationship between the two.
Yeah so now every female character from their games is them pushing an agenda. It's never ending.This particular choice, to change Drake's son into a girl, fits that mould quite snug.
Giving so many aspects it seems that way yes however we do not know but people also get suspicious because of the rest. One thing would have never raised an eye. But the amount of it, the language, the connections to Sarkesian, to the racist bigot new actor who was handpicked. And es also the shipping (I think that is what people call this) it certainly makes a case.Yeah so now every female character from their games is them pushing an agenda. It's never ending.
Whether this is normal isn't the argument.I dont see how. Neil Druckmann reached the director of "The O.A." to audition Ian Alexander. How is that not normal?!
Thank you for your directness.I don't see any problem here in favoring a "bigot". All of that seems normal to me and not even worth noticing.
This actually does not hold up to scrutiny. Sully saves the day countless times. As noted by others above, Nadine is blinded by her self arrogance and at the end loses everything.Also this really opend my eyes how stupid male characters are in Uncharted 4 while women are all smart and always do the right choices or saving the day.
I don't think this happens in Uncharted 4, but they do lean a bit towards that in The Lost Legacy. The bad guy is a dude, working with dudes, and the only "good" male character that comes along is so weak and stupid that he needs the two protagonists to make it through. Where it definitely happens though is in Horizon, where 99% of male characters are either bad guys, stupid, weak or twisted in their intentions. Contrary to 99% of the women having good intentions, being smart and capable.Also this really opend my eyes how stupid male characters are in Uncharted 4 while women are all smart and always do the right choices or saving the day.
Sure, if you want to remove all context from the image and setting.This holiday greetings card to me does not hint at any lesbian relationship. I see two embarassed women under the mistletoe.
Because he's trying to prove a point? Why would he cover irrelevant tweets in his video?And if you look at Druckmann's or NaughtyDog's twitters, you'll see dozen and dozen of re-twitts of fan-arts that are extremely diverse. Why pick those three?
Are you saying Druckmann's not consistent in his beliefs on how to represent women in media? I can't think of any that go against his stated ideals. Can you?Yeah so now every female character from their games is them pushing an agenda. It's never ending.
I am not sure how fantasizing about a lesbian relationship that is not in the game is somehow adding context.Sure, if you want to remove all context from the image and setting.
I agree with you that he is trying to prove a point. But nitpicking 3 re-twitts among hundreds of others does not make a fair point. He's trying to prove a point with anecdotal evidences at best.Because he's trying to prove a point? Why would he cover irrelevant tweets in his video?
No I think Druckmann is consistent in his beliefs. I would not expect less from a creative director from a big studio.Are you saying Druckmann's not consistent in his beliefs on how to represent women in media? I can't think of any that go against his stated ideals. Can you?
It's just one of the many ways ND expresses its social justice values. For example by making their holiday greetings card thingy depict two established hetero women, embarrassed and blushing under a mistletoe. Either because they think it would be fun if these two were romantically involved, or because they think their audience would enjoy it.What I don't understand is why is RobinGaming seeing in this particular un-harmful instance any red flag for an hypothetical future bad quality of ND's games?
I am not sure how fantasizing about a lesbian relationship that is not in the game is somehow adding context.
Of course, there are some who still think that his video is homophobic or any kind of "-ist" they can name.
This video also aged like fine wine:
Of course, there are some who still think that his video is homophobic or any kind of "-ist" they can name.
This video also aged like fine wine:
Funny how there's 2 buttons. Why aren't the white knighters and astro turfers clicking on the likes? Oh that's right, cause they don't give a shit.B...b...but all those dislikes are coming from Xbot trolls, homophobes, and sexists!!
I'm not an Xbot anyway...B...b...but all those dislikes are coming from Xbot trolls, homophobes, and sexists!!
I know. Neither am I. Even then, it still doesn't stop certain people from accusing us as Xbox fanboys.I'm not an Xbot anyway...
That's the usual defense without much thought, about why certain video has so many dislikes. But it never worked, since was majority of exlusive games or game developer's videos have pretty much few dislikes.I'm not an Xbot anyway...
Look at the dislikes... it's pretty crazy!
Smart move, you wouldn't want the product you're selling to people in this very video being spoiled on your official channel now would you.Of course this pussy has comments off.
There is a new studio for UC under Bruce Straley, I think it is protected from Druckmanns clutches. I think you're right though, I think Uncharted is far more important in the long run.Missed this video when it came out, but yeah, seems he hit the nail on the head and had a lot of accuracy in his foresight.
Honestly I'm more worried about the future of Uncharted than anything now.
The Last of Us isn't for me. I thougt the first one was very well made but lacked likeable characters, had a very morose plot and way too many dumb but not fun plot points for my tatses.
The clear TLoU influences in Uncharted 4, the terrible far left 'strong female character' that was nadine, slow pace, dreary lack of anything supernatural and anticlimactic end with Nate and Elena's daughter marred what was otherwise a fantastic experience, and while Lost Legacy managed to avoid most of that with a far smaller game and thus much tighter experience, the weird homerotic fetishisation of Chloe and Nadine since from them, that this video reminded me about, was creepy as hell.
I'm fine with them making a far left propaganda filled, bigoted, hateful, misery fest of a zombie series if they want, just don't change my silly, fun, over the top Tomb Raider rip off into the same thing basically.
It would be awesome if they bring Amy back, and she and Bruce collab on a game that is 100% focused on making a good game and not be concerned about "social justice" or personal politics.There is a new studio for UC under Bruce Straley, I think it is protected from Druckmanns clutches. I think you're right though, I think Uncharted is far more important in the long run.
She is still friendly with everyone that does the voice-acting, they had a video reunion a few days to a week ago. So, it could be possible, even though shes working on some game-streaming thing atm.It would be awesome if they bring Amy back, and she and Bruce collab on a game that is 100% focused on making a good game and not be concerned about "social justice" or personal politics.
So in other words she'll be free in a couple of years at most!She is still friendly with everyone that does the voice-acting, they had a video reunion a few days to a week ago. So, it could be possible, even though shes working on some game-streaming thing atm.
Yeah but she might just leave if the offer is good enough..she probably feels that Uncharted is her baby. Depends how passionate she is...So in other words she'll be free in a couple of years at most!
Snip.
omg i laughed so hard at this. was exactly my thought when i watched the video.Of course this pussy has comments off.