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The Official Sonic's Megadrive/Genesis Ultimate Collection thread

No Sonic 3 + Knuckles is UNFORGIVABLE.

Fuck this shit. Why can they do it on my GameCube Sonic Mega Collection but not on this one? Pathetic.
 
BobTheFork said:
Still hurts that this won't have ToeJam and Earl but I'm still picking it up tuesday. So I'm looking at the OP and I know it says some games are SUGC exclusive but I'm asking anyways, does the 360 versions seriiously not have Shing Force 1 and 2 and NO SoR games? WTF?
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The 360 and PS3 versions have the same games on them. And yes, that includes the Shining Force and SoR games.

Guybrush Threepwood said:
I just tested it out on Sonic 2 for the Genesis and you can enter two-player mode with only one controller hooked up. Once you complete a level, you just have to wait one minute for the other player to die. I'm not sure if that counts as "finishing" the level with two players, though.

Although it sounds like you have to complete Act 1 of the actual game while a second player controls Tails...
Click to expand...
The way I was able to get around the "unlock Phantasy Star" problem with just one 360 controller was to plug in my Rock Band guitar. When I started playing Sonic 2, I pressed the green fret button to "activate" the second player's control of Tails. I then just ran through the first two stages as normal, allowing the second player to fall behind (the CPU will take over to attempt to have him keep up with you).

When I got to the Robotnik fight, I made Tails just again just to be sure that he was under the second player's control and proceeded to defeat Robotnik. Phantasy Star unlocked for me then.

Of course, this doesn't really help anyone who doesn't have any music controllers, either. :\
 
untoldhero said:
Don't know if this has been posted yet anywhere but Australia gets a world exclusive pre order bonus!

cat_sega-mega-lp-offer.gif
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anyone know if they're doing this in the uk?
 
Zen said:
If they'd had the Sega CD version of Sonic CD, I'd have bought this.
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Really a bummer that it's not on there. It's really just about the only SCD game anyone even cares about. Still, with everything else on there it's undoubted a buy for me.
 
Hmm that's unfortunate about the lack of S3+K. Seems like such a minor thing considering all of the other games in this collection(and especially considering it was in the previous Sonic Collections.
 
Chinner said:
I feel nerdy for saying this, but how hard will it be to achieve all the achievements?
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It's incredibly easy. I was able to get the full 1000 points in an evening.

That goes for unlocking all the games as well. The only sticking point might be the need for a second controller (or guitar) to unlock Phantasy Star.
 
are you sure that the lock on feature on s&k is missing in this collection?

FUUUUUUUUCK è___è

this really makes the collection USELESS.
 
Sonic 3 is half a game.

Sonic & Knuckles is half a game.

Separate they're USELESS. :|

Its like they're all why do you need Sonic 3+ Knuckles if you have them both separately?!? Well fuck you, just give us Sonic, Sonic 2 and Sonic 3+Knuckles for the REAL MD Sonic trilogy.

I can't face plain this enough. So much for 'listening to the fans' and giving us an ultimate MD compilation, this ain't worth dick anymore.

They were too busy patting themselves on the back for getting the 4 Phantasy Star games together that they go and ignore such an important part (and best) of the bloody character on the box-art's series.

:|
 
Sucks about the S&K compatibility, but the number of quality games that I haven't played before that would cost more elsewhere makes it a definite buy for me eventually. Nice surprise since I wasn't paying attention to it.

I vomited a little when I saw the Sonic 3 description though. :lol
 
Sega1991 said:
Little known secret: VectorMan 2 isn't very good and I suspect most people haven't ever played it, but they assume it's good because VectorMan 1 was awesome. VectorMan 2 is like everything that made VectorMan 1 awesome, with half the polish and padded out to be twice as long as it needs to be.

Thus, reaching Scene 11 is probably kind of tedious.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't say that Vectorman 2 is bad, but it is a clear step back from the first game. There's also the fact that the insects aren't nearly as interesting enemies as the orbots and the change in Vectorman's voice acting was for the worse. Gameplay is still in tact so it's still fun to some degree.

I wouldn't call that achievement tedious though. You can easily get to Scene 11 is about a 30-45 minute sitting. The Dr Robotnik Mean Bean Machine achievement looks like the worst imo.
 
SuperBanjo said:
Ugh. UGH.

I only have one PS3 controller right now. Like Duck said, is there a way to get 2 players with one controller? Because if I have to spend $50 on an extra controller just to unlock one damn game.... seriously, didn't Sega think that over?
Click to expand...

uh why don't you just set the controller to controller 2 on the PS controller settings right before you reach the goal?
 
I'll just play Sonic & Knuckles after Sonic 3.

Having them as two separate games is not that big of a problem since there is no cartridge swapping now that I think about it. I prefer the Sonic 3 levels anyway.
 
I was thinking about buying this, but Sonic 1, 2, and 3 were all I really wanted, so those 3 on XBLA is cheaper for me.
 
Whimsical Phil said:
It's incredibly easy. I was able to get the full 1000 points in an evening.

That goes for unlocking all the games as well. The only sticking point might be the need for a second controller (or guitar) to unlock Phantasy Star.
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Can you say anything about menu music? Is there any? Is it as terrible as it was in the PS2 Megadrive collection? Is it again at least twice as loud as any game sound effect or music? Can it be muted this time around?
 
a Master Ninja said:
It's called Sonic's Ultimate Genesis Collection, what the FUCK were they thinking?
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It stinks of pure laziness. Straight up emulation, no code to interact. This had to be simple as hell to implement.

Then again, I'm not a huge fan of the Sonic games (first two and Sonic CD aside). To me it's all about the RPG's in this collection.
GarthVaderUK said:
Meh, Sonic games. It's all about the RPGs baby! :D
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Edit: holy shit, same post, same time stamp. :lol
 
Guybrush Threepwood said:
Good news and (really) bad news

http://blogs.sega.com/usa/2009/01/2...ction-9-unlockable-games-and-new-screenshots/
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That can't be right. I mean it can technically, but it would be one of the most inane, vapid things ever. Every time Sonic & Knuckles and Sonic 3 (and 2 and 1) have been available, you could lock them together, even if it was just a separate ROM on the disc. If they actually didn't take that tiny extra step in a game called "Sonic's Ultimate Genesis Collection"... :lol

If it's honestly not in there, somebody needs to be fired. Hell, it's three free games to pad out their collection with. If they've already got Sonic 3 and Sonic & Knuckles functioning, I don't think Sonic 3 & Knuckles is any further stress on their emulation. Knuckles in Sonic 2 is just a patch file, and the Sonic & Knuckles cart already contains Blue Spheres, it's just there.


Edit: To make it clear, I understand the possibility that the collection developers may have known locked-on versions of the games should be included, but someone else blocked their way, maybe legal or an executive or what have you. I don't necessarily blame the direct collection developers, but somebody dropped the ball in a huge way if this is true.
 
Guybrush Threepwood said:
How?

Sonic 3 & Knuckles is Sonic the Hedgehog 3
Click to expand...

They should have gotten it right the first time then.
Sonic 3 already runs a bit long due to the repetitive stage design but Sonic & Knuckles just heaps on a big steamy glop.

Both games boast an impressive variety in terms of types of levels. Problem is inside of those levels I find myself doing the same thing over and over and at times seemingly going in circles.

Everytime there's an impressive set-piece the designers simply don't let it stand on it's own and move on to creating something else. Instead this particular set piece is repeated again and again throughout the level only cramming in something here or there to make it more challenging.

This isn't exactly bad game design to be honest as for one it's familiar and it works well when designed properly. Problem is so much of S3&K is spent running through these motions is that I tend to forget where or even why I'm doing this. After a certain point it's pretty well established that the pacing is absolutely butchered. Why a time bonus even exists at this point considering stages are more likely to take 5 to 7 minutes instead of 2 or less just bugs me to no end. Then I've got like something like three different bonus rounds you can play at random at every checkpoint. Oh and how could I forget the number of hidden giant rings that'll take me through sets of even more bonus rounds. And for what? Just to get those wacky chaos emeralds and see the one or two screens worth of better ending?

As much hate as Sonic games post S3&K have gotten at least they got one thing right. They brought the series back into being very score-focused games, built on rewarding players who can play through the games quickly and with the greatest ability. Whatever focus S3&K had was buried under the countless bonus rounds, the repetitive stages, and the simple fact that the entire game is just too long and worse too dull to be played as anything other than a "wow check out all of the cool stuff I can do" kind of game.

And to think fixing all of these problems could be all so simple if they had put forth the effort to bring both Sonic 3 & S&K into one cohesive whole. This is not done by simply slapping one game on top of the other. No you pull out the redundant pieces and edit out the overly long sections and the other aspects that don't need to be revisited a dozen times. Metropolis Zone is still the worst thing about Sonic 2. Aside from following up one of the better stages (Oil Ocean) for some ungodly reason Metropolis Zone felt it deserved three acts. Three acts of running across giant screws, bouncing in-between hundreds of diagonally-set springs, and a bunch of other things you'll see a dozen of with little to no variation. Metropolis Zone is a piece of shit.

Why bring up Metropolis Zone? Simply because there's almost a dozen of them in Sonic 3 & Knuckles. Lighting torches to keep ghosts away is fun so let's do that for about 6 minutes straight. We've got these tubes of light that Sonic can roll through. It's like regular tubes but it looks like Sonic is flying through the air. Yeah let's do a bunch of those just to really hammer it home. Sure even if they've seen everything there is to see in the first act of a Zone let's throw them another one, cause more = better right?

Certainly it's a great value when you add it all up but a great game? Nope...not at all. Heck if it wasn't for the majority of the 3D games being mostly broken messes I'd have put a couple of them over S3&K. The 3D games had focus and dare I say a point whereas S3&K just sort of meanders around looking for something to attach to cause the current identity it has just doesn't seem to suit it.

Despite all that it's still a five star game. For what it is it's still good enough. Just wanted to say my piece that's all.
 
jepjepjep said:
The one game that I would love to see that isn't included in this is Revenge of Shinobi.
Click to expand...

This would probably require Sega paying more money to Marvel and DC over the Man-bat and Spider-dude bosses in the game than they'd ever make by putting it in a compilation or other form of re-release. Even the changes Sega made back on the Genesis version still weren't enough to keep them from sending checks to Marvel/DC.

Aside from that there is:
-Rambo(he got his head shaved in the re-release at least)
-Godzilla(in the re-release Sega got the bright idea to turn him inside-out...gross)
-In a single boss fight Joe Musashi battles an Arnold-looking dude who turns green like the Incredible Hulk and then when defeated turns out to be the Terminator.
-Nuns who are secretly deadly Kunoichis. There's probably somebody out there who thinks that's a bad idea.

It's just one of those games you have to own a Genesis to play I'm afraid.

Guybrush Threepwood said:
^ Speaking of that, how can I know if I'm getting the original version of the game?
Click to expand...

More likely: http://cgi.ebay.com/Sega-Genesis-Ga...yZ139971QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Less likely: http://cgi.ebay.com/REVENGE-OF-SHIN...yZ139973QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
100%: http://cgi.ebay.com/THE-REVENGE-OF-...ryZ11988QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem (Note the Altered Beast poster.)

I can also tell you that the Six-in-one cart(has Columns, Sonic 1, Super Hang-on, RoS, Golden Axe, and a mystery game) has the edited version of RoS. The box is a red-stripe which is as sure a sign as any.
 
PepsimanVsJoe said:
This would probably require Sega paying more money to Marvel and DC over the Man-bat and Spider-dude bosses in the game than they'd ever make by putting it in a compilation or other form of re-release. Even the changes Sega made back on the Genesis version still weren't enough to keep them from sending checks to Marvel/DC.

Aside from that there is:
-Rambo(he got his head shaved in the re-release at least)
-Godzilla(in the re-release Sega got the bright idea to turn him inside-out...gross)
-In a single boss fight Joe Musashi battles an Arnold-looking dude who turns green like the Incredible Hulk and then when defeated turns out to be the Terminator.
-Nuns who are secretly deadly Kunoichis. There's probably somebody out there who thinks that's a bad idea.

It's just one of those games you have to own a Genesis to play I'm afraid.
Click to expand...

This is all of the things that make the game so awesome! Also, the soundtrack is one of the best ever!
 
Guybrush Threepwood said:
^ Speaking of that, how can I know if I'm getting the original version of the game?
Click to expand...

Taken from: http://www.phm.lu/Shinobi/SuperShinobi/Versions.aspx

Version 1
The first version arrived in 1989 (with copyright at the bottom of the title screen).
Also, the boss of Round 7 is a real brontosaurus.

Version 2
In 1990, SEGA add a copyright screen just after the opening SEGA logo, to acknowledge Marvel for Spider-Man (boss of Round 6).
The boss of Round 7 is still Godzilla.

Version 3
They replaced Godzilla by a skeleton brontosaurus in Round 7.
 
This fiasco is just another example of how out-of-touch with their fans Sega have become.

I felt with this compilation, they could have fixed the issues that were present in the previous Genesis collection. And to some extent, they have. Adding the Streets of Rage and Shining Force games might make this collection worth it for some people. Although the SOR games should have been included on the previous compilation, and they were included on Sonic Gems Collection for those of you who got the import version.

But how difficult would it be to do a little bit of research before taking a bunch of roms, slapping them on the disk, adding an ugly filter to the emulator and packaging it for sale? Sonic 3 & Knuckles isn't an extra. It's a necessity. The games are simply incomplete without it. And we never got an explanation over Gunstar Heroes not being on the disk. And something... something could have been worked out to include Revenge of Shinobi. Even if they had to pay a small royalty, or if they had to bring in a small team of coders to edit/change the coding to erase the licensed characters. Anything. But not including some of the best Sega Genesis games on the "Ultimate" Genesis compilation...it just doesn't cut the mustard. Or even Toejam and Earl, for crying out loud. Pay the damn royalty.

Look, I know I'm coming off as harsh, because to a lot of people this collection is going to be a great deal. But to loyal Sega supporters and purists like myself, I can't help but feel like Sega doesn't care about their customers.

It's because we're spoiled, I know. But it's what we've come to expect because of Sega's previous efforts(Sonic Jam being the prime example). As well as that of other compilations by other companies, like Namco and Capcom in their retro compilations, which were all done with care and effort.

But with this disk, I just don't see the care. It's a product aimed at the "WalMart Customer" to bring in a little extra money.


Yeah, not aimed at folks like me. Sega doesn't need or want my money.

My hopes were never high for this compilation, and I was skeptical since the announcement. So I'm not heartbroken over it. And it's really no wonder with the way Sega has treated their once-loyal fans in the last couple of years.


Again, I apologize for the negativity of this post. I don't like saying it, but it's gotta be said.
 
PepsimanVsJoe said:
After a certain point it's pretty well established that the pacing is absolutely butchered.
Click to expand...
This more or less sums up my problem with S3&K. On that note, there was also no reasonable way to scale the difficulty in a game that is also supposed to be able to stand alone as 2 separate games.

Sonic 1 does a good job at alternating between easy zone -> hard zone -> easy -> hard throughout the entire course of the game. Sonic 2 also does a decent job at just gradually ramping up to harder stages by the time you reach the end. Sonic 3 and S&K don't, however. Mushroom Hill has to be easy enough to stand as a first level in S&K, and to be honest, much of the entire combined game is easy and repetitive up until you get to the Lava Reef boss sequence. (Admittedly, much of the remainder of the game was pretty bad-ass, sans the pointless and thankfully-skippable roller-coaster-ish set pieces in Death Egg that you mentioned.)

S3&K is still greater than the sum of its parts, however, and it's more than a little stupid that this collection essentially contains an incomplete game.
 
Either way I think after this Sega is done with the Genesis. Looking over the potentials for a SUGC #2 it really doesn't look all that promising. This old post was the best I could come up with: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=14104875&postcount=78 . No way anyone would be willing to put together a compilation like that.

So I imagine if any of these future compilations based on other Sega consoles ever materialize S3&K will be shoved in there randomly. If not then the only other possibility is XBLA/PSN(which would also explain the lack of Gunstar Heroes).

Hell S&K still isn't available on the VC let alone S3&K. It really makes me wonder what they were using to get S3&K working on Sonic Jam and the Mega Collections.
 
I'm still getting this...
Is like $1.50 per game, which is less than half of the usual $5 that is charged, per game on either Xbox Live or Virtual Console..and it doesn't use space on the Hard Drive.

Maybe there's going to be a patch or DLC related to some of the missing games and stuff..maybe they'll charge for it too..who knows; still a great price and a great package.
 
PepsimanVsJoe said:
It really makes me wonder what they were using to get S3&K working on Sonic Jam and the Mega Collections.
Click to expand...
IIRC, there is no extra programming or trickery required to get the combined S3&K functioning properly. It is supposedly as simple as tacking on a Sonic 3 ROM to the end of a Sonic & Knuckles ROM. Sonic & Knuckles checks the appropriate memory address when the system is booting up, and if Sonic 3 is there, it'll load the combined game. I remember reading as much back when that huge dump of 1000+ beta copies of Sega games (which included S3&K) was released a while ago.
 
Sixfortyfive said:
IIRC, there is no extra programming or trickery required to get the combined S3&K functioning properly. It is supposedly as simple as tacking on a Sonic 3 ROM to the end of a Sonic & Knuckles ROM. Sonic & Knuckles checks the appropriate memory address when the system is booting up, and if Sonic 3 is there, it'll load the combined game.
Click to expand...
Yep. It's literally as simple as converting them into binary format and running this DOS command:

Code: 
COPY /B S&K.BIN + SONIC3.BIN SONIC3&K.BIN

Plus a little hex editing to make saving work. Knuckles in Sonic 2 works the same way, with the addition of the 256k patch ROM. Likewise for Blue Spheres. And they already did all this for Mega Collection, which was also simple emulation.
 
wow... why is everyone whining?

It's a GENESIS/Mega Drive collection that happens to have a few Sonic games in it. SEGA America just slapped Sonic on the cover so sales would triple. Get over yourselves. If you don't want it don't buy it. It's a great deal for 30 dollars.
 
Man I remember that 256k patch ROM thing stumping people in the ROM community for YEARS. There were articles written about it, almost thesis like in their desire to figure out how the fuck this is meant to work. Only until some person out of the blue plugged in some blank space between the two ROMS and it worked :lol

Oh the SSRG, how I miss you.
 
a Master Ninja said:
So what you're saying is they could easily patch in Sonic 3 & Knuckles?
Click to expand...
Yes. As stated above, the procedure is literally as easy as "S&K + STH3 = S3&K."

People are just going to have to get used to an "eh, good enough" attitude out of any emulation package coming from Backbone.
 
Yeah, there was no extra work needed to include Sonic 3 & Knuckles.

It was just a matter of...knowing it existed. The people behind this package clearly didn't...uh, 'get' it. I doubt they even knew about the lock-on feature in Sonic & Knuckles.

It wasn't a matter of patching the roms together. It was just a matter of having the knowledge to include it. A simple 'copy and paste'. It's kind of like how they didn't know there was any fan support for including 'Wonder Boy in Monster Land'.

Like I said, it's great if you're happy about this collection. But there are just too many glaring omissions for me to overlook to be satisfied. Most will like it, a few people like myself will not.

I'm not really upset that this collection isn't that great. I'm more upset that Sega has forgotten how to handle their older content. These are the kind of things other companies would(and have) handle with greater care.
 
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