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The Panama Papers - Massive leak of secret documents about offshore companies

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R

RompinRaider

Neo Member
Just heard Obama making a speech about stopping these wealthy investors hiding their money in offshore banks...give me a break. He knows it's going to spread!
 
D

Deleted member 13876

Unconfirmed Member
So odds are people are hacking them right now?
 
W

Wyndstryker

Member
SmoothCB said:
Is there any estimation of how much money overall has been hidden over the years?
Click to expand...

Its entirely possible that vast majority of people's wealth can be offshore since it allows them to avoid paying taxes.

So the vast majority of the wealth of these rich people. Aka a lot of money. And thats probably an understatement.
 
C

chadskin

Member
SmoothCB said:
Is there any estimation of how much money overall has been hidden over the years?
Click to expand...

Rich individuals and their families have as much as $32 trillion (20 trillion pounds) of hidden financial assets in offshore tax havens, representing up to $280 billion in lost income tax revenues, according to research published on Sunday.

The study estimating the extent of global private financial wealth held in offshore accounts - excluding non-financial assets such as real estate, gold, yachts and racehorses - puts the sum at between $21 and $32 trillion.
Click to expand...
http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-offshore-wealth-idUKBRE86L03W20120722?feedType=RSS&feedName=topNews

That's about a third to a half of the world's (!) GDP.
 
U

Unknown Soldier

Member
RompinRaider said:
Just heard Obama making a speech about stopping these wealthy investors hiding their money in offshore banks...give me a break. He knows it's going to spread!
Click to expand...

Both Obama and Hillary are buddies with the investment bankers. I expect absolutely nothing to happen there.

However Pfizer and Allergan are not happy campers today. Corporate inversions are easy scapegoats and can take the fall to protect Obama's and Hillary's banker pals.
 
Square2015

Square2015

Member
Bernie's official statement today:
Sanders Statement on Panama Papers
April 5, 2016

MILWAUKEE – U.S. Sen. Bernie Sanders on Tuesday issued the following statement after 11.5 million documents were made public from a Panama law firm that helped some of the world’s wealthiest people establish offshore bank accounts:

“We now know, as a result of the ‘Panama Papers’ released by an international consortium of investigative journalists, that more than 214,000 entities throughout the world have been using a law firm in Panama to avoid paying taxes.

“At a time of massive income and wealth inequality in the United States and around the world, the wealthiest people and largest corporations must start paying their fair share of taxes. Children should not go hungry while billionaires use offshore tax havens to avoid paying their fair share of taxes.

“The Panama Free Trade Agreement put a stamp of approval on Panama, a world leader when it comes to allowing the wealthy and the powerful to avoid taxes.

“I was opposed to the Panama Free Trade Agreement from day one. I predicted that the passage of this disastrous trade deal would make it easier, not harder, for the wealthy and large corporations to evade taxes by sheltering billions of dollars offshore. I wish I had been proven wrong about this, but it has now come to light that the extent of Panama’s tax avoidance scams is even worse than I had feared.

“My opponent, on the other hand, opposed this trade agreement when she was running against Barack Obama for president in 2008. But when it really mattered she quickly reversed course and helped push the Panama Free Trade Agreement through Congress as Secretary of State. The results have been a disaster.

“The American people are sick and tired of establishment politicians who say one thing during a campaign and do the exact opposite the day after the election.

“It is time for real change. As president, I will use my authority to terminate the Panama Free Trade Agreement within six months. My administration will conduct an immediate investigation into U.S. banks, corporations and wealthy individuals who have been stashing their cash in Panama to avoid taxes. If any of them have violated U.S. law, my administration will prosecute them to the fullest extent of the law.”
Click to expand...
https://berniesanders.com/press-release/sanders-statement-panama-papers/

...and the next debate is two days away. I expect the media to keep all this under the radar until after the debate (if ever).
 
E

Ether_Snake

安安安安安安安安安安安安安安安
Kind of weird to me that Bernie speaks specifically and solely of Panama, knowing full well the issue is much bigger and involves the US itself too.

HariKari said:
He opposed the trade deal with Panama years ago while Clinton backed it. Obviously the problem is more widespread, but highlighting the difference between the two is pretty much what a campaign is about.
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Ok thanks, didn't know that.
 
H

HariKari

Member
Ether_Snake said:
Kind of weird to me that Bernie speaks specifically and solely of Panama, knowing full well the issue is much bigger and involves the US itself too.
Click to expand...

He opposed the trade deal with Panama years ago while Clinton backed it. Obviously the problem is more widespread, but highlighting the difference between the two is pretty much what a campaign is about.
 
U

Unknown Soldier

Member
HariKari said:
He opposed the trade deal with Panama years ago while Clinton backed it. Obviously the problem is more widespread, but highlighting the difference between the two is pretty much what a campaign is about.
Click to expand...

I wonder if Bernie will bring it up at the debate. He must surely understand that his once-in-a-lifetime chance just fell in his lap.
 
F

Foffy

Banned
SmoothCB said:
After doing a little research on my previous question...

This is from a few years ago on Forbes: Super Rich Hide $21 Trillion Offshore, Study Says

Which lead me to think at a high level this might be a way to start funding Basic Income by heavily taxing this hidden wealth.

This concept is also briefly mention in this article: Why the Panama Papers Could Catapult Bernie Sanders to the White House

At least some food for thought!
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Absolutely. I've thought about this myself, and the sheer money that has slimed itself here can fund basic income programs in a significant portion of the world today.

It puts the weird naysayers who whine and cry "we can't do it because lolmoney" failing to realize it can be done, and based on potential trends, must be done. Even Obama has talked about the disruption at risk for many people, so he's finally on board with this as a social problem. Why do you think he talked about wage insurance? That's the baby step here, for it focuses on people who will be displaced as the race to the bottom continues.
 
H

hydragonwarrior

Member
Foffy said:
Absolutely. I've thought about this myself, and the sheer money that has slimed itself here can fund basic income programs in a significant portion of the world today.

It puts the weird naysayers who whine and cry "we can't do it because lolmoney" failing to realize it can be done, and based on potential trends, must be done. Even Obama has talked about the disruption at risk for many people, so he's finally on board with this as a social problem. Why do you think he talked about wage insurance? That's the baby step here, for it focuses on people who will be displaced as the race to the bottom continues.
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He can initiate it but I am kind of thinking Congress won't even let him get close to getting this to happen.
 
F

Foffy

Banned
hydragonwarrior said:
He can initiate it but I am kind of thinking Congress won't even let him get close to getting this to happen.
Click to expand...

True, and this is because of many reasons, one of which is that the Republican party is a faction that is, for lack of a better term, an enemy of reason.

For the party that denies climate change and argues for creationism, will they dare even question the Protestant work ethic totally at risk to technological change? No, they'll assume one's socioeconomic standing is a character choice because you have free will and unlimited autonomy.

They risk being yet another roadblock and group of dangerous harm to others fucked through no fault of their own as our ideas, our trains of thought prove to be the problem, not the change coming. But I guess for them, it will just be another day...
 
M

midramble

Pizza, Bourbon, and Thanos
Ok, on the Bernie prediction bit, I'm a bit confused probably because of my amateur understanding of trade agreements and foreign branch vs local tax rates; however, I was skimming through the US Panama trade agreement and there is a large section on tariffs for goods transfered. Are these tariffs so low that operating here is considered a tax haven or more as a tax break? Is the difference so large that this is considered fraud or was the agreement enacted to incentivize trade to Panama?

Also are they holding back info on American companies using this as a haven for dramatic effect, are they still searching for them, or are there any to begin with?

Also from what I've been reading, a majority of these havens have existed and been known to most likely exist since the 70s.

I may be wrong, so please correct me if I am, but I don't think Bernie predicted havens. Havens were already a known. He claimed the trade act would create this for American companies, which, so far, doesn't seem to be the case.

That being my assumption, I will also assume that Bernie, been a man of great experience, does know more about this than I do just from my google searching so I'll hold any real accusations.

Just thought I'd bring in some thoughts to see if I've painted myself an incorrect picture. (I'm afraid I might be because I've developed probably a bias as a Clinton supporter)

Also wanted to bring it up because this is now blowing up my Facebook and I'm weary of anything big on Facebook anymore as I've found more disinformation than information from every direction. Fact checking is getting tiring and hard.
 
C

curls

Wake up Sheeple, your boring insistence that Obama is not a lizardman from Atlantis is wearing on my patience 💤
FliXFantatier said:
While probably part of the truth it is worth remembering the first person to fall over this is the premier of Iceland.
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What a fool he was for doing that! He should have made himself and his government watertight after Iceland jailed quite a few bankers.

Guess he made a few enemies.

A new mood of proud nationalism is emerging in economically resurgent Iceland after an out-of-control banking system sank the country into financial meltdown exactly five years ago. Riding this wave of confidence is 38-year-old prime minister, Sigmundur Davíd Gunnlaugsson, elected in April on populist promises of mortgage relief for every homeowner.

Gunnlaugsson earned his spurs in years of outspoken campaigning against the foreign creditors who still haunt Iceland, particularly the British and the Dutch governments, which intervened after the collapse of Landsbanki – the bank behind Icesave – on 7 October 2008.

While many other politicians in Iceland had urged a policy of appeasing the enraged British and Dutch governments, Gunnlaugsson had insisted they should go hang.

"Where everyone else bailed out the bankers and made the public pay the price, Iceland let the banks go bust and actually expanded its social safety net," noted Paul Krugman, admiringly. Iceland, he found, had demonstrated the "case for letting creditors of private banks gone wild eat the losses".

Nobel prize winner Joeseph Stilitz agreed. "What Iceland did was right. It would have been wrong to burden future generations with the mistakes of the financial system." For Financial Times economist Martin Wolf too, it was a triumph. "Iceland let the creditors of its banks hang. Ireland did not. Good for Iceland!"
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Revenge does appear to be a dish best served cold.
 
A

alfredofroylan

Member
Nobel prize, Mario Vargas Llosa is named in this.
A Spanish news website says a document in the massive leak of material from a Panamanian law firm shows that Nobel literature laureate Mario Vargas Llosa and his ex-wife were listed as shareholders in an offshore British Virgin Islands company for about a month in 2010.

However, a statement from Vargas Llosa's literary agent said he was surprised to hear that the two were listed as shareholders with Talome Services Corp.
News site El Confidencial said Wednesday it obtained the document from the cache of leaked material from law firm Mossack Fonseca. Its report says emails show a Vargas Llosa representative asked lawyers to remove Vargas Llosa and his ex-wife as shareholders on Oct. 6, 2010.

Vargas Llosa was awarded the Nobel prize on Oct. 7. El Confidencial says the company's shareholders were changed from Vargas Llosa and his ex-wife to two Russians on Oct. 12.

The statement from Vargas Llosa's agent says he and his ex-wife never interacted with Mossack Fonseca. It also says Vargas Llosa has complied with all tax regulations in Spain and elsewhere.
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http://www.ctvnews.ca/world/panama-papers-nobel-winner-vargas-llosa-named-in-leak-1.2847309
 
A

AndyD

aka andydumi
mackattk said:
Wouldn't be surprised if some of them are completely oblivious to it and don't even know they were involved. Probably their accounting firm or whoever handles their accounting does this shit without them knowing.
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That's probably true of some. But others might have been directly involved. The most appropriate path is to investigate everyone.

Also, any chance the firm will be sanctioned/banned as being linked to international sponsors of terror?
 
N

nib95

Banned
Barajas_201 said:
Hillary Clinton should drop out right now before this is used against her the general election unless you want to get Trump or Cruz in the White House.
/s

I'm half serious.
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You think Trump won't be implicated? If Clinton is and Trump isn't, then yea, big trouble ahead.
 
D

D4Danger

Unconfirmed Member
The FIFA/UEFA thing is amazing because they were specifically asked if they'd ever had any dealings with Cross Trading before these leaks and said no and now it turns out the new boss was. absolute joke of an organization. just rotten to the core.
 
P

Plinko

Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
nib95 said:
You think Trump won't be implicated? If Clinton is and Trump isn't, then yea, big trouble ahead.
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Except Trump won't be the candidate. Cruz will.
 
B

balladofwindfishes

Member
magnifico said:
Clinton campaign chief linked to Russian bank listed in Panama Papers. Apperently this is the tip of the iceberg. Just wait til US info is released.

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/c...anama-papers/article/2587741?custom_click=rss
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I saw this earlier today, but many of the comments on the article were questioning the source, and it didn't seem reliable.

Edit: I'm following the path laid out on Reddit for this news

- Guy on Hillary's team
- Guy's brother is a lobbyist (for a firm Hillary's guy had a falling out with 20 years ago)
- Guy's brother fills out a form identifying his affiliates
- One of these is a conglomerate
- One of the branches of this conglomerate is affiliated with Putin
- The guy's brother hasn't actually even did any lobbying for them yet since he just started the relationship last month

Ehh... this sounds like a stretch

Edit 2: Yea, found out the paper is a right wing junk source
 
D

Deleted member 13876

Unconfirmed Member
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...ax-evaders-even-if-it-wanted-to-a6971411.html

Lawyers for the HMRC had themselves “blamed austerity for not being able to do their job” in previous tax evasion cases that then fell apart, Mr Maugham said.

“It’s the Treasury’s fault, because of its curious policy for starving its only revenue raising department of the resource it needs to raise tax.

“It is the consequence of an ill-thought-through manifesto to prioritise the closing of the deficit at the expense of all.”
Click to expand...
 
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