And the prequels as a whole are plot-hole filled, lazily shot messes with no love for subtlety, internal logic, or proper story arcs.
The prequels weren't original. They had an end point already and several ideas of where to go. Lucas just scribbled in and on the outlines, and he still did a bad job of it.At least they tried to do an original story,
not like the soft reboot TFA was.
I have high hopes for Ep8 though.
Rian will do an awesome job, just hope Disney doesn't meddle too much.
Ep9 by Trevarrow though... Ugh...
This is spot on. Laughed out loud at my midnight screening during the Vader scene. The brother scene has pathos for some reason and pulls together the rest of the drek into a decent moment of tragedy, that's more because McGregor can act his ass off than the script being worth the 10 cents it cost to print that line.
The died of a broken heart line is a terrible line in any sci-fi movie.
At least they tried to do an original story,
not like the soft reboot TFA was.
I have high hopes for Ep8 though.
Rian will do an awesome job, just hope Disney doesn't meddle too much.
Ep9 by Trevarrow though... Ugh...
Believe it or not I read somewhere that the intercom chat was actually in the script even though it sounded like Harrison was just improvising.All of Han's improv with the intercom is hilarious
It's impossible to see their prequel videos and not start parroting their thoughts even subconsciously.I wish RLM didn't make their videos because then conversations about the prequels wouldn't just devolve into parroting their thoughts. Look at the conversation about Boyhood and what the default reaction to that movie has become. Its sad.
Really? I'd love a link. Still an incredible scene.Believe it or not I read somewhere that the intercom chat was actually in the script even though it sounded like Harrison was just improvising.
Why does it matter if it's different if the script acting pacing and direction are fucking awful.Everyone here seems to be pretty unanimous in their hate of the PT, so I'll just say this: Lucas at least deserves some respect for trying something different. VII was good, but it was also very derivative and kind of felt like it was written by a boardroom of executives.
Also, the PT gave me one of my favorite scenes of all the Star Wars saga: http://youtu.be/25GKkfXJUVU
Everyone here seems to be pretty unanimous in their hate of the PT, so I'll just say this: Lucas at least deserves some respect for trying something different. VII was good, but it was also very derivative and kind of felt like it was written by a boardroom of executives.
Also, the PT gave me one of my favorite scenes of all the Star Wars saga: http://youtu.be/25GKkfXJUVU
The only reason VII is much of a retread is to get Star Wars back to a point of common ground after having three movies of unnecessary CG, completely unlikable characters, and a complete failure of making compelling space politics. It's a 'greatest hits' so that people can go "oh this is what good Star Wars is..." without necessarily being told "Go watch these three-decade old movies, but not the other ones because... just, just don't watch those other ones."
Everyone here seems to be pretty unanimous in their hate of the PT, so I'll just say this: Lucas at least deserves some respect for trying something different. VII was good, but it was also very derivative and kind of felt like it was written by a boardroom of executives.
Also, the PT gave me one of my favorite scenes of all the Star Wars saga: http://youtu.be/25GKkfXJUVU
The only reason VII is much of a retread is to get Star Wars back to a point of common ground after having three movies of unnecessary CG, completely unlikable characters, and a complete failure of making compelling space politics. It's a 'greatest hits' so that people can go "oh this is what good Star Wars is..." without necessarily being told "Go watch these three-decade old movies, but not the other ones because... just, just don't watch those other ones."
Everyone here seems to be pretty unanimous in their hate of the PT, so I'll just say this: Lucas at least deserves some respect for trying something different. VII was good, but it was also very derivative and kind of felt like it was written by a boardroom of executives.
Also, the PT gave me one of my favorite scenes of all the Star Wars saga: http://youtu.be/25GKkfXJUVU
Ah yes, they were so bad, the only way to bring people back is by having 0 creativity and making the first movie again.
That argument is complete bullshit and you know it. The greatest hits collection for the most popular movies of all time? Give me a break...
You can make a great creative new entry in a franchise even if the past entries weren't so hot.
So stupid. You're purposefully forgetting all the great, innovative things about Episode VII so you can have a snowflake opinion.
Give me a movie with a script, good characters, and dialogue. Purposefully derivative or no, TFA has those. TPM doesn't.
When the prequels retread stuff from old movies it's The Ring Theory. When TFA does it, it's a "rehash"
I know, lol. Just pointing out the hypocrisy of this prequel defense when the same people try to defend the prequels for doing the exact same thing TFA did.It's similar in some ways but only on the surface really.
First star wars to use handheld. What an awful fucking ending shotI genuinely can't tell if sarcasm.
When the prequels retread stuff from old movies it's The Ring Theory. When TFA does it, it's a "rehash"
I know, lol. Just pointing out the hypocrisy of this prequel defense when the same people try to defend the prequels for doing the exact same thing TFA did.
In TFA every beat is exactly the same as it happened in the original
Ah yes, they were so bad, the only way to bring people back is by having 0 creativity and making the first movie again.
That argument is complete bullshit and you know it. The greatest hits collection to remind people about the most popular movies of all time? Movies rereleased every other year? Give me a break...
You can make a great creative new entry in a franchise even if the past entries weren't so hot.
I genuinely can't tell if sarcasm.
It may not have retconned the prequels but they sure are easier to ignore and stand apart even further.You say this like it retconned the prequels. They still exist and they're still canon. There was no good reason 7 had to be as much of a retread as it was
and the third one is actually fun, but messes up when trying to connect the events of it's story to Episode IV.
How so? There's nothing contradictory.
Well maybe not contradict but I'd argue it's pretty damn rushed. Considering we had THREE ENTIRE MOVIES to get to ANH, it's a little disappointing to see lots of things stuffed in at the end.
A subjective point of view that I won't argue with, that's fine. The prequels had more story to tell other than just connecting to ANH, and I liked the pacing of the last one. To each his own!
Nailed it. If Lucas hadn't crapped the bed in spectacular fashion, it wouldn't have been necessary to give audiences a "Hey, remember when Star Wars movies used to be good?" film. Not that TFA doesn't have plenty of original material in its current form.The only reason VII is much of a retread is to get Star Wars back to a point of common ground after having three movies of unnecessary CG, completely unlikable characters, and a complete failure of making compelling space politics. It's a 'greatest hits' so that people can go "oh this is what good Star Wars is..." without necessarily being told "Go watch these three-decade old movies, but not the other ones because... just, just don't watch those other ones."
How exactly did Lucas try something "different" according to you?
Right, and that was the whole point of the prequels.. to give us what we didn't have in ANH (background events leading up to the OT), not just to give us missing info, but to explain what happened to Anakin and how he fell (so much incredible potential there). The pacing was much better (even if rushed) than the other two films, definitely. I find it hard to believe that anyone could argue that TPM or AotC is a better film. At the same time, especially carrying a PG-13 rating, EP3 could have been SOOOO much more. It had glimmers of excellence often subdued by botched execution. IMO, of course.
Not having another masked villain and not having another Death Star were some of my main gripes with VII that the prequels avoided. I don't care that Kylo Ren was a Vader stan. There were tons of other directions they could've gone with
Not having another masked villain and not having another Death Star were some of my main gripes with VII that the prequels avoided. I don't care that Kylo Ren was a Vader stan. There were tons of other directions they could've gone with. And yes, they did introduce some new concepts and ideas, but I felt like compared to the new stuff introduced in just Episode 1, it was underwhelming
Not having another masked villain and not having another Death Star were some of my main gripes with VII that the prequels avoided. I don't care that Kylo Ren was a Vader stan. There were tons of other directions they could've gone with. And yes, they did introduce some new concepts and ideas, but I felt like compared to the new stuff introduced in just Episode 1, it was underwhelming
There's not much about Revenge of the Sith that I don't like.
Force Awakens did a fantastic job at having a similar structure to a new hope that'll resonate with people that saw it 30 years ago while also providing the necessary elements for new comers to enjoy the ride 100%
For me it's lots of hammy acting. When I saw it in theaters, LOTS of people laughed at Palpatine's antics and delivery (dude's amazing but I'm not sure how so many scenes turned out comical). Lots of poor direction choices, still problems with overacting/poor dialogue/over-reliance on CGI.. EP3 is not even close to being a great movie IMO, but has the framework there for something incredible.
I thought the performances, at least relative to the first two, were a big step up. Not everything was great obviously and there's a few critically-written lines during otherwise powerful moments that are questionable and poorly delivered... but mostly poorly delivered from being poorly written. I can't imagine some of those lines ever being delivered well by anyone. Harrison even said this about some of the lines in the script for A New Hope.
There's only a few instances of the writing/acting that bums me out in that one, as opposed to many large chunks of the first two being insufferable. Hayden is good, to me, when he isn't being forced into saying dumb things. Ewan is always great. Natalie is better than she was in the first two, until the landing platform scene before the lightsaber duel where she simply stopped giving a fuck altogether, but I'll blame that too on Lucas for not being able to see that she was doing a shitty job during such a crucial moment.
As far as Palpatine hamminess, yeah, I ate it up. I felt like he was letting loose with his personality after having to play that fake role for so long. He was thrilled to finally shed that guise and fuck up the fam.
I mean don't get me wrong I love his performance but in all the wrong ways. I'd honestly love a movie of just Palp being Palp.
Ian was terrific while doing his senator thing. It was great watching him be a secretive prick around characters whom he was using their egos against them; the Jedi thought they were the shit to the point where Palpatine could use some dark space magic to allow them to not be able to see right through him. Is it a clumsy excuse? Sort of, but IMO not really anything greatly detached from "I can see the future and do awesome shit because the Force!"
Back to the point, for me it was just fun to watch him let go. I really enjoyed his stuff on Grievous' ship at the beginning too. Good, Anakin, good! Hahaha. *sigh* kill him. But the thing I liked the most was how, while Palpatine had most things figured out, he didn't have Anakin 100% figured out. While the probability was there, I liked how Palpatine was relying on the hope that Anakin would turn against Windu/the Jedi at that moment.
Even the main villain was sort of making a gamble there, and I liked Lucas' shots of his face when Anakin was trying to make the decision and was arguing with Windu before lopping his arm off.
I could talk about Star Wars all day, and surely to the chagrin of many of you!
Right it's always been there but I think it's taken to a level higher than what we'd seen before. I agree, Palpatine was done very well (if you can stomach his goofy antics), and I actually really like his ability to cloud their vision through his expert knowledge of the dark side.
Padme is a rational and compassionate young woman with a fierce belief in the importance of democracy and fair governance. She stringently debates and opposes anyone who argues for potentially dangerous compromises in those principles, or who would use well-intentioned systems to gain personal power. Unfortunately, she's also naive and somewhat easily led, making her vulnerable to both the manipulations of Senator Palpatine and unable to see the darkness growing inside Anakin until it's too late. She believes that there is a diplomatic solution to every problem, that the best way of obtaining justice is to work within existing legal channels. Unfortunately, since her enemies do not respect the same rules she does, she is often overtaken by them. She is nevertheless brave and willing to fight for her cause when need be, sometimes recklessly if it means putting herself in harm's way.
Anakin is a young man who shares Padme's almost obsessive questing for an ideal, but finds himself fiercely conflicted when he or those around him fail to live up to those standards. Like Padme, he's also compassionate, but where that compassion inspires determination in her, it inspires anger in him, leading him down dangerous paths and into the hands of Palpatine. Having been told he is the chosen one since he was a boy and gifted with extremely potent force powers, he has a strong ego which he struggles to control, a weakness he is well aware of and angry at his inability to overcome. Where Padme sees diplomacy as the best way to achieve peace, Anakin - having grown up in a desolate and poverty-ridden corner of the galaxy which the Republic showed little interest in helping - believes sometimes bad things need to be in order to achieve a greater good, that the corrupt and evil cannot be defeated by talking. His relationships mean a lot to him and he puts a great deal of trust in a small number of confidantes (Padme, Palpatine, Obi Wan), magnifying his anger when he feels betrayed by them, or when he believes he has let them down, as in his inability to save his mother.
Even taking into account that Padme and Anakin had three films across which to develop and Rey's only had one, I maintain that, regardless of the performances (and indeed, for the prequels, the dialogue), the new characters in Force Awakens are considerably blander, less flawed and complex, than the key players (Anakin, Obi Wan, Palpatine, Padme) in the prequels.
How so? There's nothing contradictory.