Optimus Lime
(L3) + (R3) | Spartan rage activated
Watching manchildren tie themselves in pretzels while desperately trying to find quantifiable evidence of something being 'any good' is always depressing.
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The Problem With Xbox AKA Phil Spencer - Chart Heavy
- Thread starter FalconPunch
- Start date
semiconscious
Member
& done. how do you even hope to exist in the console market if your last successful exclusive ip was created in 2006? i mean, that's just genuinely nuts. it almost seems like the odds'd be that they'd've just accidentally come up with one over all that time...
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Must be a "Gaf thing."
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
There are 6 iterations of using user scores as an indicator of decline in franchises in your own charts....
Also Dead Rising isn't even an Xbox franchise ..
---
EDIT:adamsapple is attempting to derail the thread by arguing that metacritic user scores are invalid. The charts are composed of both the metacritic "critic" score listed as metacritic and the metacritic user score listed as "userscore". If you do not like the userscore. Feel free to ignore the user score and look at the aggregate critic scores.
hyperbertha
Member
I trust user reviews far more than mainstream. It quite obvious they are all heavily pressured into giving first party games a pass.
Punished Miku
Gold Member
Holy shit at that OP edit lol. Hopefully it's updated with a chart showing the thread intent in blue and adamsapple's "derail" in red so we can all follow what the OP means.
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ChorizoPicozo
Member
I gotta agree with adam.
Have you seen the engagement numbers too? They are through the roof.
and based on this chart.
Engagement is the only thing we need; the only thing that matters.
Have you seen the engagement numbers too? They are through the roof.
and based on this chart.
Engagement is the only thing we need; the only thing that matters.
ShadowkillXNA
Member
Grow up.
Metacritic user score is nigh useless for this purpose. There’s no real logic in using such a flawed metric filled with many 0/10 and 10/10 reviews to insist that ‘critics got it wrong’
Also strains credibility to blame ratings drops in old ass flight sim games and xbox/360 Fable games on Phil Spencer.
Pretty sure you already know there’s no way to verify if the user reviewers on Metacritic have paid for the game.
Want to see how user reviews are, when valid purchases are taken into consideration, and where review bombing is much less prevalent?
4.7/5
Or for an even on Steam, where pretty much every reviewer there paid for the game
But you’d rather go with Metacritic user reviews like:
Agenda’s gotta agend, I guess.
Also strains credibility to blame ratings drops in old ass flight sim games and xbox/360 Fable games on Phil Spencer.
Pretty sure you already know there’s no way to verify if the user reviewers on Metacritic have paid for the game.
Want to see how user reviews are, when valid purchases are taken into consideration, and where review bombing is much less prevalent?
4.7/5
Or for an even on Steam, where pretty much every reviewer there paid for the game
But you’d rather go with Metacritic user reviews like:
Agenda’s gotta agend, I guess.
Crayon
Member
Nice graphs to ponder. Who knows how reliable that kind of data is, but it does match up with the general decline so it correlates. It's not presented as the cause of anything. It's just some evidence that phil is not good at his job. I still think the leaked emails show the problem. He's got a monopolistic streak puts the quality of their stuff behind the desire to buy everything.
Funny enough, I think his status as a figurehead for an increasingly hardcore usership kinda puts them in a twist. If you replace him it's a big hit to the army's morale.
Funny enough, I think his status as a figurehead for an increasingly hardcore usership kinda puts them in a twist. If you replace him it's a big hit to the army's morale.
FalconPunch
Member
Speaking of Agendas, neither old Flight sim nor 360 fable games were under Spencer's tenure. Spencer took over in 2014 and shares no blame for those games. Nice derail attempt though.
Hudo
Member
I'd rather grow down, tbh.
Killer8
Member
Several of those franchises like the big three, Halo, Gears and Forza, had been declining for years before Phil took over (March 2014).
In fact there has actually been a recovery in terms of quality based on the user scores. The analysis only talks about a decline and says little about the rebound in quality of the most recent release. If you're going to say that "pHiL hAs RuInEd ThEsE sErIeS" (as if he controls every aspect of their release) then you'd also have to grant in an equally ludicrous way that he's saving them too.
Several of the franchises mentioned also haven't had a game in years (Fable 3 was released in 2010 and there is a new one on the way). Microsoft have nothing to do with Dead Rising. You've got to love how the miscellaneous section is also styled to look like a decline too, when you could just as easily have ordered those games in a different way to show an increase in quality.
Beyond3D should stick to counting pixels and having spergfits about console specs because this analysis is just dogshit.
In fact there has actually been a recovery in terms of quality based on the user scores. The analysis only talks about a decline and says little about the rebound in quality of the most recent release. If you're going to say that "pHiL hAs RuInEd ThEsE sErIeS" (as if he controls every aspect of their release) then you'd also have to grant in an equally ludicrous way that he's saving them too.
Several of the franchises mentioned also haven't had a game in years (Fable 3 was released in 2010 and there is a new one on the way). Microsoft have nothing to do with Dead Rising. You've got to love how the miscellaneous section is also styled to look like a decline too, when you could just as easily have ordered those games in a different way to show an increase in quality.
Beyond3D should stick to counting pixels and having spergfits about console specs because this analysis is just dogshit.
DrFigs
Member
Agree w/ the earlier comments that user reviews are just not informative by themselves. but clearly this is not an issue in this case, since they seem to correlate highly w/ the critic reviews.
I think this is an interesting idea: that it's not that MS lost the last generation, so therefore that's why they're doing poorly now. maybe they really are just releasing worse games. the data you've presented appears to show that this is the case.
I think this is an interesting idea: that it's not that MS lost the last generation, so therefore that's why they're doing poorly now. maybe they really are just releasing worse games. the data you've presented appears to show that this is the case.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Hudo
Member
The point is that he did some good things and some bad things. Shit is not black or white.
For me personally, he's the best Microsoft "Gaming CEO" since the inception of Xbox. For you he seems to be one of the worst. Who is right? We both are from what we want out of Microsoft/Xbox. I don't care for Forza or Gears. You don't care of Age of Empires or Flight Simulator.
I do care about Halo, though... But not even current Bungie would be able to make a good Halo game.
mayham2199
Member
I've never understood the hype surrounding Phil Spencer. I loved my 360 and I haven't seen Xbox on that level since that generation or even close.
SEGAvangelist
Member
Imagine going through the trouble of making all these charts to hate on Phil.
The "SpencerEra" label is especially hilarious.
The "SpencerEra" label is especially hilarious.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
He's a gamer just like us.
edit: Orziel is attempting to derail the thread.
Sushi_Combo
Member
The charts indicate a trend that I've been seeing since Philly boy took over. Massive First party quality titles tanking. It's shocking how much of a pass this gets from the Xbox fanbase. They should be demanding for better games lol.
graywolf323
Member
to be fair, Phil took over XGS back in 2008 so I feel like you should credit him with titles that came out while he was the head of first party studios as wellLet's Look at Phil Spencer's Performance as a whole.
It's clear to see that prior to Phil Spencer taking over Xbox as a whole in 2014, titles scored higher with both users and critics. Since he's taken over, we've seen a drop in both ratings.
newtypepilot
Member
Their declining games is a contributing factor but there are way bigger problems within xbox. It's a dying brand because their insistence on double downing on gamepass, which aligns with microsoft's direction of controlling its customers with subscriptions and cloud based services. They think cloud gaming is some golden nugget but in reality you can't just focus quanity over quality like netflix does because mobile games exists, where there's a even bigger pool of crap and it doesn't cost the user a subscription. Xbox's messaging is "we got gamepass and only gamepass!". To add insult to injury, they also release their games on PC day 1, which decentivizes people from even getting a xbox. They fail to appeal to both diehard gamers and the more casual crowd.
Killer8
Member
He's a gamer just like us.
edit: Orziel is attempting to derail the thread.
Discounting user scores is stupid because it's the only metric that shows there hasn't been a continued decline in their main series quality under Phil.
There is a rebound at play here. Gamers thought that Halo Infinite was a lot better than 4 and 5, Gears 5 is just as good as Gears in its trilogy heyday, and the latest Forza is one of the better ones since that catastrophic drop in quality seen with FM5 (which was pre-Spencer).
... I feel like I need a seat in the Xbox fanboy war room when defending this company's output.
True:
I mean, you guys swear by these already so…
Steam scores CAN be heavily impacted by technical issues on PC, independent of perception on console. For example…
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
I mean, you guys swear by these already so…
Steam scores CAN be heavily impacted by technical issues on PC, independent of perception on console. For example…
Accurate. Very positive since they fixed the issues.
Accurate. Very positive since they fixed the issues.
overall reviews still 66%, for a game that’s certainly a masterpiece.
Like I said, sometimes affected by technical
Issues. And reviews certainly can change as issues get resolved.
Not exactly rocket science here
Jayjayhd34
Member
Wow I actually agree with adamsapple here using review scores is silly review bombing is massive for metacritic.
This thread is nothing but my console has better games kind of thread. My question to you why do care so much about a platform you clearly don't like.
You want know a secrect there's a reason console wars have never died is because arguing about some opinion that's all comes down too.
There's some people out who play the worst games ever made. Now point here why do want to ruin that guys fun. I remember as kid loving the fuck out herdy gerdy bet you hate that right.
Xbox might be doing bad right now but no need for site continue hosting dozens threads about it gaming is about having fun it's entertaimemt after all.
This thread is nothing but my console has better games kind of thread. My question to you why do care so much about a platform you clearly don't like.
You want know a secrect there's a reason console wars have never died is because arguing about some opinion that's all comes down too.
There's some people out who play the worst games ever made. Now point here why do want to ruin that guys fun. I remember as kid loving the fuck out herdy gerdy bet you hate that right.
Xbox might be doing bad right now but no need for site continue hosting dozens threads about it gaming is about having fun it's entertaimemt after all.
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digoutyoursoul
Member
*Undelivered more often than not
*Their most popular IP ended up a mockery
*Always talking about hearing feedback, learning and doing better yet the end result more than not doesn’t reflect that
* It took a all in approach to a subscription service for them to finally substantially invest in first party studios when it was required earlier
* And with that it looks like the plan all along is to devalue the console and eventually release their services on more successful hardware platforms
*They launched a console with the plan of only one major release which they didn’t see was clearly not ready to ship and instead became a meme which raises questions to their thought process and judgement of quality
*So instead they pushed how great backwards compatibility was and used their influencers to also push that narrative
*Consoles and games are planned years in advance yet they had no other major titles to ease the disappointment of Halo Infinite despite what many regard as their worst generation so far in Xbox One
* Certain individuals won’t sincerely and without influence, question the leadership of Xbox due to their relationship with the publisher, their subscription and Patreon numbers and their access to software and hardware
*They still haven’t substantially improved often requested feedback for at least five years such as the Achievement system which was promised late in 2021 by Jason Ronald but has now gone silent on the matter
* There is a obnoxious cult like mentality towards the execs particularly Spencer which hasn’t helped matters whatsoever. How do you expect anything to improve long term if you make people infallible?
*Their most popular IP ended up a mockery
*Always talking about hearing feedback, learning and doing better yet the end result more than not doesn’t reflect that
* It took a all in approach to a subscription service for them to finally substantially invest in first party studios when it was required earlier
* And with that it looks like the plan all along is to devalue the console and eventually release their services on more successful hardware platforms
*They launched a console with the plan of only one major release which they didn’t see was clearly not ready to ship and instead became a meme which raises questions to their thought process and judgement of quality
*So instead they pushed how great backwards compatibility was and used their influencers to also push that narrative
*Consoles and games are planned years in advance yet they had no other major titles to ease the disappointment of Halo Infinite despite what many regard as their worst generation so far in Xbox One
* Certain individuals won’t sincerely and without influence, question the leadership of Xbox due to their relationship with the publisher, their subscription and Patreon numbers and their access to software and hardware
*They still haven’t substantially improved often requested feedback for at least five years such as the Achievement system which was promised late in 2021 by Jason Ronald but has now gone silent on the matter
* There is a obnoxious cult like mentality towards the execs particularly Spencer which hasn’t helped matters whatsoever. How do you expect anything to improve long term if you make people infallible?
Insane Metal
Member
Sounds about right.
FalconPunch
Member
Your mistake is thinking that this is a console war thread. It's not. It's an xbox focused thread. People are just getting in their feelings. As someone who is currently subscribed to gamepass ultimate and previously owned several series x which i sold, this is about xbox and xbox alone. I did not reference any other console in this discussion and the key focus is on seeing a drastic improvement with xbox. They have declined and they need to improve.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Phase
Member
Seems the reception slowly declines with each sequel. This is probably the case industry-wide generally. There needs to be some new IP's to excite people, and I think we need to take a look at their existing IP's they're doing nothing with (omitted some). Why are they sitting on so many of these? Maybe a few are being revived but I've heard nothing so I expect nothing.
Crash Bandicoot
Guitar Hero
Gun
Hexen/Heretic
King's Quest
Prototype
Soldier of Fortune
Spyro
Starcraft
SWAT
Tony Hawk's Pro Skater
True Crime
Warcraft
*Yes I realize these are activision titles, my mistake.
Crash Bandicoot
Guitar Hero
Gun
Hexen/Heretic
King's Quest
Prototype
Soldier of Fortune
Spyro
Starcraft
SWAT
Tony Hawk's Pro Skater
True Crime
Warcraft
*Yes I realize these are activision titles, my mistake.
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Bernardougf
Gold Member
Giallo Corsa
Gold Member
ZoukGalaxy
Member
Phil is actually THE problem, so much talk for nothing, literally.
At his beginning, he was "fresh" because he got the benefit of the doubt, now the truth has been revealed with the ABK courts, he's just a (bad) joke, a clown full of blablabla at this point.
Xbox had so MUCH potential after the Xbox 360 storm, today, everything has been wasted.
At his beginning, he was "fresh" because he got the benefit of the doubt, now the truth has been revealed with the ABK courts, he's just a (bad) joke, a clown full of blablabla at this point.
Xbox had so MUCH potential after the Xbox 360 storm, today, everything has been wasted.
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Jayjayhd34
Member
You really think phil is sat on his phone reading your threads on neogaf.
It still doesn't change the fact your whole augment is on basis of very biased platform.
The thing that would matter is sales and gamerpass subscription look tlou2 how much shit that got on launch and look how much they raked in (enough to make renake for ps5 )
reviews mean shit these days most normal gamers will probably watch the first hour youtube if there unsure about a game mot base there decision on some user they don't know.
Last Hearth
Member
The problem with the XBox is the XBox, it's a completely unnecessary console that basically plays all the same games as the Playstation. It's an imitator that brings nothing new trying to beat the party it is copying from. That rarely goes well.
The XBox only exist because Microsoft decided they wanted in on the gaming revenue, and instead of fight other people's weakness with their strength. They foolish chose to fight Sony's strength (hardware) with their weakness.
If Microsoft were smart, they would have focused on where they were strong, which is software, and build a software platform for gaming. Had they done that in 2000, they would be the Steam of today and there would be no Steam. Steam had 10 Billion in revenue in 2022, XBox had 4.7 Billion.
The XBox only exist because Microsoft decided they wanted in on the gaming revenue, and instead of fight other people's weakness with their strength. They foolish chose to fight Sony's strength (hardware) with their weakness.
If Microsoft were smart, they would have focused on where they were strong, which is software, and build a software platform for gaming. Had they done that in 2000, they would be the Steam of today and there would be no Steam. Steam had 10 Billion in revenue in 2022, XBox had 4.7 Billion.
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SEGAvangelist
Member
Who capitalizes the B in Xbox?
Jayjayhd34
Member
They owned them for like 2 months Jesus
SEGAvangelist
Member
This is the best post ever.
Bumblebeetuna
Member
Some of you guys are missing the forest for the trees. Sure, when it comes to critic scores, franchises like Halo and Gears and Forza have declined. But the bigger problem used to be that Xbox had nothing else. Now they have good Forza and Halo and Gears games AND a ton of other stuff. That's the "Spencer effect" I tend to think of as a gamer. Also, can't you say this about most franchises that go on like this? The exception seems to be Nintendo, per usual. But their long running franchises are different in that the games are typically their own different experiences and not a continuation of one story.
Uncharted - 88, 96, 92, 80, 93, 86, 84, 87
Ratchet - 88, 90, 91, 81, 85, 62, 89, 72, 61, 76, 87, 70, 64, 76, 85, 88
GT - 96, 93, 95, 89, 84, 81, 74, 75, 87
Killzone - 70, 91, 84, 78, 77, 73
MLB The Show: too many iterations to list but it went from scores in the 90's to 77
Infamous - 85, 83, 80, 73
Resistance - 86, 87, 83, 81, 60
I can't really think of any other Sony franchises that have more than a couple entries. And before anyone says "but but Sony!!":
Mass Effect - from high 90's to low 70's
Need for Speed - from high 80's to low 60's
Resident Evil - from high 90's to low 80's, dips into the 60's
I could go on and on but the point is proven. Franchises have ebbs and flows. It would be one thing if the "Xbox trifecta" had dipped into the 60's or something but you're talking about games in the mid or high 80's meta. Good games.
And this is assuming anyone should even give a rats ass about critic scores anyway, and they shouldn't. Taking Halo for example, my favorite of all of them is 4. My least favorite is 5. I'd rate them very far apart from one another but on MC they are separated by three points. Same with Gears. I greatly enjoyed 4, its ten points lower than the first. And Gears 3 is like a 92 or 93, no way.
The fact of the matter is software wise, Xbox is in a much better place than they were before Spencer.
Uncharted - 88, 96, 92, 80, 93, 86, 84, 87
Ratchet - 88, 90, 91, 81, 85, 62, 89, 72, 61, 76, 87, 70, 64, 76, 85, 88
GT - 96, 93, 95, 89, 84, 81, 74, 75, 87
Killzone - 70, 91, 84, 78, 77, 73
MLB The Show: too many iterations to list but it went from scores in the 90's to 77
Infamous - 85, 83, 80, 73
Resistance - 86, 87, 83, 81, 60
I can't really think of any other Sony franchises that have more than a couple entries. And before anyone says "but but Sony!!":
Mass Effect - from high 90's to low 70's
Need for Speed - from high 80's to low 60's
Resident Evil - from high 90's to low 80's, dips into the 60's
I could go on and on but the point is proven. Franchises have ebbs and flows. It would be one thing if the "Xbox trifecta" had dipped into the 60's or something but you're talking about games in the mid or high 80's meta. Good games.
And this is assuming anyone should even give a rats ass about critic scores anyway, and they shouldn't. Taking Halo for example, my favorite of all of them is 4. My least favorite is 5. I'd rate them very far apart from one another but on MC they are separated by three points. Same with Gears. I greatly enjoyed 4, its ten points lower than the first. And Gears 3 is like a 92 or 93, no way.
The fact of the matter is software wise, Xbox is in a much better place than they were before Spencer.
GHG
Member
I care about Flight Sim, but I also care about Forza (deteriorating), PGR (now dead), Rallisport Challenge, etc and I also once cared to actually own an Xbox console (which he doesn't seem to care about anymore).
The best thing he's done of late in terms of games is allow Remedy to have the Alan Wake IP back so that we could end up with the fantastic Alan Wake 2 and that speaks volumes.
He's not one of the worst, he is the worst leader they've had. Just saying "I only want these 2 games so fuck the bigger picture" is massively shortsighted. Some people once said "I only care about gears and halo, fuck the bigger picture", what are they saying now?
Shakka43
Member
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