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[dity]

It's hardly a conspiracy, but okay. All you have to do is look to tumblr or any place where discussions actually take place about being able to own these words so that "privileged" people can't use them, and so that it can be an acceptable thing to shit on said people if they DO use those words. Funny enough, these same people are usually completely okay with inventing their own terms to try and marginalize the people who they call privileged "cissys, fedoras, etc."

Does the concept of a word being owned by a group of people not seem ridiculous to you?

Maybe its because I grew up in the generation where a word was perfectly acceptable to use, and nobody gave a crap who said it, and thus it has become sort of embedded in my vocabulary- and so I don't appreciate being chewed out or verbally insulted by others (who seem to make such a big deal about words being used to insult other people BTW) if said offensive word happens to slip out. Even if it was said in a manner that wasn't even intentionally directed at said marginalized group. Or to me has a different meaning completely because that's how it was when I learned it.

I don't see how telling people to just "use a different word" is a solution, because it's already been discussed to death how the meanings and definitions of words, and the context behind them keeps changing- how are we supposed to keep up with what's acceptable to say and what's not?
If we never draw the line, anyone can make any word into an offensive one and demand that nobody say it, and then someone gets punished because it's become perfectly acceptable to police anyone over anything they say that someone else finds offensive.

It's a ridiculous cycle that IMO needs to end, but I already know I'm in the minority with my opinion here, so I'll just leave it at that because I have better things to do right now than argue over whether or not I deserve to be roasted or have my intelligence insulted over saying something like "Man, my Computer is being retarded right now."

 

[NoblesseOblige]

2 for 2 with the non-rebuttals.

At least SaganisGOAT, despite that I disagree with his premise, knows better than to avoid ad hominem.

What was the ad hominem? Your initial injection had absolutely no content to rebut, as you merely tried to rely on playing 'gotcha!' but dropped the ball.

Edit:

Isn't the correct response "My apologies Count Dookkake, i'm going to stop making excuses for myself and drop the i-word"?

No, because 'ignorance' isn't a trait outside a person's control which is used by those not having said trait in order to demean or degrade another person. I know the difference, you know the difference, Count Dookkake knows the difference. Let's not play this asinine game.

 

[Count Dookkake]

Well, I have said here before, the word retarded has been used as an offense since the early 60's. Right about after it was considered a formal scientific classification for mentally disabled people. This is no sudden change of meaning, this was using a specific group of people as an offense right from the go. I am interested in how the use of the word ignorant compares to that, or potentially could.

I have never suggested that the word was not insulting. Nor do I ignore that words can change meaning. I'm not really sure I understand how any of this applies.

What was the ad hominem? You initial injection had absolutely no content to rebut, as you merely tried to rely on playing 'gotcha!' but dropped the ball.

Insisting that my post was an attempt to "be cute" addresses me, rather than the point made.

How i-word of you.

 

[NoblesseOblige]

Insisting that my post was an attempt to "be cute" addresses me, rather than the point made.

How i-word of you.

Apologies for giving you the benefit of the doubt. But by all means, please defend your position of:

Using "ignorance" as a pejorative is insensitive to people who don't have access to education.

Explain why 'ignorance' is a pejorative, how it's insensitive, and how it applies exclusively to those without access to education.

 

[Count Dookkake]

Explain why ignorance is a pejorative, how it's insensitive, and how it applies exclusively to those without access to education.

It connotes a lack of knowledge, establishing a two-caste system of haves and have-nots, in which the former are superior to the latter.

I made no claim regarding exclusivity.

 

[benicillin]

One of my best friends in high school had a brother with Down Syndrome and helped me understand that it wasn't okay to say it. I remember it slipping out the first couple times we would hang out and he would get upset because of how mean people were to his brother growing up, they were really close. I'd be lying if I said it didn't slip out every once in a while but I'm conscious of the fact that it's an objectively shitty thing to say.

 

[NoblesseOblige]

It connotes a lack of knowledge, establishing a two-caste system of haves and have-nots, in which the former are superior to the latter.

I made no claim regarding exclusivity.

How does 'ignorance' establish a two-caste system of haves and 'have-nots'? There are an equal number of ignorant representatives in an upper caste as a lower caste.

 

[God Dayumm]

No, because 'ignorance' isn't a trait outside a person's control which is used by those not having said trait in order to demean or degrade another person. I know the difference, you know the difference, Count Dookkake knows the difference. Let's not play this asinine game.

This makes fat shaming okay then.

 

[NoblesseOblige]

This makes fat shaming okay then.

That would depend entirely if you're speaking about literal shaming due to a person's weight, or if you're using the more broad definition that has been adopted by many.

 

[Doc Holliday]

You have to be real careful what you say these days in public or you will be in deep shit lol.

things have changed so much in a decade it's crazy. I remember a bunch of us calling the Prius a rape mobile because it was so quiet. No way I would say that now! Same with retarded, or even pedobear. Scratch that I'll still say pedobear. Shit, even writing this post I feel at risk.

In all seriousness, I used retarded to describe Tom Brady once, little did I realize this awesome kid who has down syndrome was behind me. I haven't used it that way since!

 

[Lesath]

Sure. I'll do my best to use it less from now on.

 

[Count Dookkake]

How does 'ignorance' establish a two-caste system of haves and 'have-nots'? There are an equal number of ignorant representatives in an upper caste as a lower caste.

2 castes:

-the knowing
-the ignorant

By using "ignorant" you assert the existence of the other group.

I don't think I can make this any simpler.

 

[NoblesseOblige]

2 castes:

-the knowing
-the ignorant

By using "ignorant" you assert the existence of the other group.

I don't think I can make this any simpler.

There is no such thing as a knowing caste. That's literally something you just made up.

 

[Evolved1]

Ugh. I'm guilty of this sometimes. Idk, one of the last vestiges of wrongheadedness still ingrained from adolescence. It's wrong, and I'm working on it. That sounds lame, but it's true. I do try not to say that anymore, when I'm thinking about it. Unfortunately it's subconscious almost... anyway, someone actually called me on it the other day. Appreciated that, and obviously felt like an asshole.

 

[Count Dookkake]

There is no such thing as a knowing caste. That's literally something you just made up.

Did you think I was talking about India or something?

lol.

 

[Harmen]

I have never suggested that the word was not insulting. Nor do I ignore that words can change meaning. I'm not really sure I understand how any of this applies.

Then what was your intention with the following sentence?

Using "ignorance" as a pejorative is insensitive to people who can't afford access to learning.

To me that seemed like you (jokingly?) were drawing a parrelel between a potential development in the use of the word ignorance, and the actual use of the word retard. I gave context why I think the comparison does not apply at all, as the word retard has a rather specific and clear cut history rendering it unacceptible for many. It wasn't always offensive, offcourse, and even had a different meaning initially. But people started to use it as an offense right around the time it became a word formally representing disabled people in science/healthcare. That, to me, makes matters rather clear, unlike some hypothetical, poorly definable development in applying the word ignorant. Furthermore, drawing this parallel also seemed to me you were drawing a parallel between the mentally ill or disabled and people lacking education (on a certain subject)?

 

[Gutek]

The R word is not allowed in my family. We are liberal democrats.

What the fuck does that mean?

 

[Count Dookkake]

Then what was your intention with the following sentence?



To me that seemed like you (jokingly?) were drawing a parrelel between a potential development in the use of the word ignorance, and the actual use of the word retard. I gave context why I think the comparison does not apply at all, as the word retard has a rather specific and clear cut history rendering it unacceptible for many. It wasn't always offensive, offcourse, and even had a different meaning initially. But people started to use it as an offense right around the time it became a word formally representing disabled people in science/healthcare. That, to me, makes matters rather clear, unlike some hypothetical, poorly definable development in applying the word ignorant. Furthermore, drawing this parallel also seemed to me you were drawing a parallel between the mentally ill or disabled and people lacking education (on a certain subject)?

Ignorant has been used as a pejorative for decades.

But no, I am not drawing a parallel between mentally-challenged people and the ignorant. The analogy is between how we look at the words, not the people traditionally described by the words.

 

[NoblesseOblige]

Did you think I was talking about India or something?

lol.

No. You asserted the existence of a two caste-system that doesn't exist outside your head. In fact it's literally impossible for an 'ignorant' and 'knowing' caste system to exist as they both lack current knowledge of existence in the other caste, making them both ignorant.

Why don't you drop the game. We all know your initial comment wasn't made in earnest.

 

[Christine]

Well, I don't feel bad.

But you should. This is an opportunity for personal growth.

 

[Spring-Loaded]

Intent absolutely matters. That's why we have manslaughter and different degree of murder charges. Maybe I'm misunderstanding what point you're making?

When it comes to "should I do ______?" intent doesn't have any effect on whether that thing is good or bad in that scenario.

You're right about the existence of degrees of murder in court, but no one can really deem, say, a given killing to be something positive on its own. Actively ending someone's life is, at best, a concession (e.g. person is too far gone to help medically, didn't have means to safely stop a dangerous person in the heat of the moment, etc.).

An accidental killing can be have as widespread damage as a purposeful killing. A purposeful killing can be deemed justified in a court of law, or by the strict letter of the law, yet it can still be wrong in other subtle ways. Whether someone intended to run someone over with the car my affect their punishment, but it doesn't affect the direct result of their action, and it definitely doesn't determine whether the itself was bad.

To get closer to the topic, even if I genuinely mean to use "retarded" in a non-hurtful way, that doesn't change how the history and connotation the word carries with it. If I genuinely don't want to hurt or marginalize someone in some way affected by mental illness/disorders, then I would be better off not using it.

 

[Count Dookkake]

No. You asserted the existence of a two caste-system that doesn't exist outside your head. In fact it's literally impossible for an 'ignorant' and 'knowing' caste system to exist as they both lack current knowledge of existence in the other caste, making them both ignorant.

Your zeal to be right has seemingly blocked your ability to read and parse meaning, unless this is just a posture in lieu of any actual response.

I am confident that there are people here who disagree with my position who are not so challenged.

Also, that last sentence is absurd. Given the context of the conversation, one can surmise that the castes are defined by the knowledge (or lack thereof) of a particular subject, not of each other.

That said, good day.

 

[Inspector Jones]

I don't use it often, but I don't feel bad when I do nor do I plan on not using it. I just called myself retarded last night after making a mistake at work.

 

[ModBot]

To reiterate what was mentioned earlier in the thread, "retarded" as a pejorative is against the rules and mods will ban for it every time we see it. If something slips through the cracks it should be reported.