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[thetrin]

I really, really hate how 3D Land limited his moveset to such a ridiculous degree. Just tragic. It feels like a 3D Mario made for people who don't like 3D Mario. It wouldn't have been too bad to see it sit in portable land as an aside to the proper 3D Marios on consoles, but no, our first 3D Mario on the Wii U is following 3D Land's depressing vision. Disappointing beyond belief.

Fucking hell.

Which is pretty much why I mysteriously enjoyed 3D Land. It all makes sense now.

 

[Anticitizen One]

...You haven't actually properly played either of the Galaxies, have you?

Beat SMG and played the first chunk of SMG 2

Just for the record I rarely give opinions on games I haven't played

 

[Panajev2001a]

3D World will be very well made and fun, but this .gif is a perfect reminder of why that Mario is such a landmark game and makes the 3D Land series feel "safe" in comparison. SM64 allowed an unprecedented freedom in controls and rewarded accurate platforming too. So awesome .

 

[greycolumbus]

Mario 64 was a test bed and so kind of ended up with the kitchen sink of featuresets. I don't think you need all of those moves to even finish the game.

I'd go a step further and say that all those moves remained in the finish game to mitigate character-control issues. Punching and kicking helped when one couldn't properly stomp on an enemy due to the 3D, and long jump techniques helped to traverse the large, flashy levels as well as for clearing pits. You also have a shitload of health.

 

[NewGame]

Mmm damn.

 

[AutumnAve]

Mario also had tons of moves in Donkey Kong '94 for Game Boy

That game was so goddamn great, those moves were kinda a proto Mario 64 moveset.

 

[Grinchy]

The crazy thing about that gif is that you can make 100 more of them from almost any segment in Sig's 120 Star run and they'd all look just as impressive in slow-mo. That girl is just insanely good at the game.

 

[Neff]

Super Mario 64 was the last good Mario game IMO

It was the last one that felt like a brisk, challenging action game. The Galaxies, 3D Land and the New series, while still good games, have a casual-friendly sluggishness and weightlessness that rob him of momentum and spontaneity.

64 is and always will be the apex of Mario imo.

Beautiful.

 

[Yagharek]

Isn't it just cool to have different games? All the big console Mario games are pretty different from each other except for SMB2J and SMG2. I like it that way. Bringing some of that minimalist NES Mario feel to the 3D setting for SM3DL was cool. As long as that's not what they're still doing in five years with 3D Mario I think we'll all be OK.

SM64 had awesome moves and physics but outside of doing crazy speedruns its not like you actually needed those moves. The game designed around it is not particularly... timeless, let's say. What SMG lacks in complexity it more than makes up in level design.

I agree with your premise. It's nice to have different games. Some people however seem to have a strong desire for more of the same, others want a continual building on top of the previous foundation.

For what its worth, I have enjoyed all the 3D Mario games to date, albeit for different reasons. My favourites are the Galaxy games, but after two of them I don't think a third is necessary. Something all new is welcome, and 3D World fills that role nicely on first appearances.

Although 3D World does look similar to 3D Land, so by the time this one is out and finished by people who buy it, it would be nice to have another entirely new 3D Mario game of sorts.

The 3D Mario games are enhanced by variety, and it doesn't half help that they are all playable 17, 11 and 6 years after their respective releases.

 

[MYE]

Mario 64 was challenging when compared to the Galaxy games?

What?!...

 

[Cloudy]

Super Mario 64 was the last good Mario game IMO

.

 

[PowderedToast]

does anybody have knowledge of mario's moveset in 3D world after the best buy demo?

i'm fearing the worst considering the game has to cater for 4 different characters.

 

[Dion Blaster]

Mario 64 was challenging when compared to the Galaxy games?

What?!...

I think moment to moment, yes. The Galaxies certainly had challenging levels but I thought your average level was much easier than 64's.

 

[Papercuts]

Sunshine fludd-less levels are the only times I have found a 3d mario to actually be really difficult.

This thread has reminded me how much I miss the pivot jump. Doing that into a walljump...mmm.

 

[MYE]

I think moment to moment, yes. The Galaxies certainly had challenging levels but I thought your average level was much easier than 64's.

I really think this is nostalgia talking. Things appeared harder when we were kids.
The hardest levels in the Galaxy games are WAY harder than the most challenging ones in M64, by far. And the easiest ones, well, you dont get much easier then the Bob-Omb field and other M64 entry levels.

 

[Dion Blaster]

Sunshine fludd-less levels are the only times I have found a 3d mario to actually be really difficult.

This thread has reminded me how much I miss the pivot jump. Doing that into a walljump...mmm.

Can't you still do that in every 3D Mario game? It was certainly most satisfying for me in 64 though.

I really think this is nostalgia talking. Things appeared harder when we were kids.
The hardest levels in the Galaxy games are WAY harder than the most challenging ones in M64, by far. And the easiest ones, well, you dont get much easier then the Bob-Omb field and other M64 entry levels.

You may be right. It's hard for me to judge now since I've gone through 64 like a dozen times. I guess it was harder to die in 64 because you had so much more health and water was blessed with healing powers (which I always actually liked). Playing it originally as a kid is probably influencing my judgement.

 

[Papercuts]

Can't you still do that in every 3D Mario game? It was certainly most satisfying for me in 64 though.



You may be right. It's hard for me to judge now since I've gone through 64 like a dozen times. I guess it was harder to die in 64 because you had so much more health and water was blessed with healing powers (which I always actually liked). Playing it originally as a kid is probably influencing my judgement.

Pretty sure you can actually, I guess I just more meant the actual jump into the walljump. I remember doing it a lot in 64/sunshine while Galaxy didn't have many chances to ever use it.

 

[Dion Blaster]

Pretty sure you can actually, I guess I just more meant the actual jump into the walljump. I remember doing it a lot in 64/sunshine while Galaxy didn't have many chances to ever use it.

Yeah totally. It was also fun trying long-jumps into wall-jumps, and sometimes into ground-pounds, you had to time it even more perfectly. The game allowed you to experiment so much.

 

[IAmMonodi]

damn son

 

[Mista Koo]

Sunshine fludd-less levels are the only times I have found a 3d mario to actually be really difficult.

I gave up on Sunshine when I reached the rollercoaster battle thing.

 

[zoukka]

Just the usual dumbing down of video games on all fronts

Kinda yeah.

 

[GrotesqueBeauty]

Super Mario 64 still has the best controls of any 3D platformer. I grimace when people claiming they're too "slippery" or "loose", which is code for not knowing how they work. Just like people who think Super Metroid is too "floaty".

 

[giapel]

Controls wise (purely Mario controls), Sunshine was the pinnacle. There shouldnt be any debate on this.

 

[Deputy Moonman]

Super Mario 64 still has the best controls of any 3D platformer. I grimace when people claiming they're too "slippery" or "loose", which is code for not knowing how they work. Just like people who think Super Metroid is too "floaty".

Until Nintendo releases a true sequel or successor to Mario 64, my body will never be Reggie.

 

[GrotesqueBeauty]

Controls wise (purely Mario controls), Sunshine was the pinnacle. There shouldnt be any debate on this.

They're better than the controls in the Galaxy games imo, but still fall short of SM64 imo. The FLUDD, which was a prominent feature, had a crummy turn radius, and in spite of being a largely water based game it had considerably worse underwater controls than SM64. That said, I still consider it high in the pantheon of 3D platforming controls, just not as immaculate as its amazingly flexible predecessor.

Until Nintendo releases a true sequel or successor to Mario 64, my body will never be Reggie.

They will, but in 5 generations. By then people will think controller driven gaming is blase, and criticize Nintendo for not making mood enhancing compounds you can inject directly into you neural mass.

 

[TalesOfWin]

Well zelda has gotten the dumbing down treatment as well.

 

[GamerJM]

I will agree that Super Mario 64's mechanics suit themselves a lot better to speedrunning, which is why Siglemic's playing looks so stylish and refined. SM64 is an amazing game to watch. But in actual practice it's just not as fun to me. It would take a ridiculous amount of time for any player to perform as well as Siglemic does in SM64. I feel like using those gifs to justify SM64 if you're not an expert at the game is misleading, most people really don't play the game at all like that.

 

[GrotesqueBeauty]

I will agree that Super Mario 64's mechanics suit themselves a lot better to speedrunning, which is why Siglemic's playing looks so stylish and refined. SM64 is an amazing game to watch. But in actual practice it's just not as fun to me. It would take a ridiculous amount of time for any player to perform as well as Siglemic does in SM64. I feel like using those gifs to justify SM64 if you're not an expert at the game is misleading, most people really don't play the game at all like that.

What matters is that the depth and freedom is there. You don't have to play like an expert to appreciate that the controls are so adaptive to individual play style.

 

[icy_eagle]

And Smash Bros had fuck all to do with the development of any Mario game. These are facts.

I didn't say that at all? How about lowered hostility and increased reading comprehension?

 

[Terrible Majesty]

10/10. Ninja Mario. Wish he could do these moves in Smash Bros.

 

[Haunted]

Mario forgot how to shoot fireballs in 64

dumbed down

limited power ups, limited items

NIntendo probably thought many different movesets and powers were too complicated for players to handle. Mario 64 is Mario for babbies.


edit: actually I can't even let a sarcastic comment like this just stand, hurts me too much inside even if it was intended to make fun of others. >_> It's too legendary.

 

[Elixist]

i die a little inside when people claim that Galaxy is superior.

 

[iMerc]

Super Mario 64 was the last good Mario game IMO

lol
i'll do one better.

There were never ANY good mario games. they've all been poor quality, poorly designed, uninspired, uncreative, and low budget.

all of them.
from n.e.s to current consoles. and not a single one of them ever influenced or set the standard for the genre that they belonged to.

i mean, c'mon, if you're going to make ridiculous, incorrect 'opinions', you might as well go all out. lol.

 

[Mr.Squirrel]

Why won't Nintendo make Mario fly anymore? Not that fucking bee suit, really flying. I'm talking 3 jumps, bitch I'm off the ground, fuck the police, fly!

 

[SpoonyBard]

It's very difficult to agree with the dumbing down argument.... in most cases the moves that were lost were replaced with something else. In Sunshine the whole FLUDD thing added an extra layer of complexity to the gameplay and controls, and in Galaxy you had the Wiimote pointer controls added. If anything those extra controls in Sunshine made the game more difficult for beginners.

 

[JustRiffled]

Is this beta footage? I can't rcall this place, and I know 64 well.

The problem with 64 is that the level design is more dull than Galaxy. 64's and Sunshine controls gave it more replay value

 

[Alienous]

lol
i'll do one better.

There were never ANY good mario games. they've all been poor quality, poorly designed, uninspired, uncreative, and low budget.

all of them.
from n.e.s to current consoles. and not a single one of them ever influenced or set the standard for the genre that they belonged to.

i mean, c'mon, if you're going to make ridiculous, incorrect 'opinions', you might as well go all out. lol.

Almost had a panic attack.

 

[nkarafo]

Super Mario 64 still has the best controls of any 3D platformer. I grimace when people claiming they're too "slippery" or "loose", which is code for not knowing how they work. Just like people who think Super Metroid is too "floaty".

I agree. Nintendo/Miyamoto nailed those controls with their first try, they were so good that there wasn't really much room for improvement.

In Mario64 i felt like i have total control of Mario and the freedom to do crazy moves after some practice. A skilled player can make Mario do amazing acrobatics and the game gives you the freedom to use these in order to grab a Star faster or even grab one that was supposedly out of reach. Not by exploiting bugs but by taking full advantage of the moveset and physics. Just like in Super Metroid where you could reach areas than needed the high jump boots without the high jump boots, you could use the more difficult morphball bomb jumping and access these areas.

Lots of moves, great controls, lots of freedom of movement and good level design to put these elements together nicely. That's Super Mario 64. Mario Land 3D feels archaic and restrictive in comparison. I don't even have the will to waste my time with it.

 

[LeleSocho]

Is this beta footage? I can't rcall this place, and I know 64 well.

The problem with 64 is that the level design is more dull than Galaxy. 64's and Sunshine controls gave it more replay value

You don't know it well as you think then, it's Rainbow Ride.

 

[Dictator93]

The abundance of moves in Mario 64 felt more like they were just doing it because they could.

This is bad because?

The choice and variety of moves is actually quite wonderful in SM64

 

[mclem]

I've never really been that comfortable with the idea of Mario having melee attacks, to be honest. I suppose it's a necessary crutch for people who have difficulty establishing the accuracy needed to land on enemy's heads in a 3D environment, but it's still not quite true to the spirit of the game.

I'm broadly okay with paring down the moveset into the moves that are necessary for the platforming that's presented. Galaxy brought back the Long Jump (missing from Sunshine) because it was necessary for the platforming challenges present. You establish a moveset then build challenges to that moveset.

 

[Lee Chaolan]

They're better than the controls in the Galaxy games imo, but still fall short of SM64 imo. The FLUDD, which was a prominent feature, had a crummy turn radius, and in spite of being a largely water based game it had considerably worse underwater controls than SM64. That said, I still consider it high in the pantheon of 3D platforming controls, just not as immaculate as its amazingly flexible predecessor.

Could not agree with you more. Sunshine is good, but it doesn't touch the masterpiece that is Mario 64.

Oh, and uh, party on, dude.

 

[Forkball]

Uh, Galaxy still has triple jump, backflip, and wall jump. I think slide too if it's also what I think you're referring to. They replaced his lame punch combo with a really useful spin attack. Not to mention, you get more opportunities to use these moves in interesting ways in Galaxy and Galaxy 2, especially with the green stars.

So in short, YOU WRONG.

 

[Cave Johnson]

I love this. The flow, the player agency.... puts to shame 99.99% of the games to date. How is it that this induction to the 3D world on N64 has more emphasis on character influence than almost every other game to date?

It is the only reason why I still hold SM64 in a very high regard. Jesus, those moves got me out of a pickle what would be

A) a QTE based sequence on modern AAA games

B) Where the control made me FELT like I was Mario... pure, no bullshit, no autopilot nonsense. Game developers you better step your game up I swear.

 

[nkarafo]

The abundance of moves in Mario 64 felt more like they were just doing it because they could.

Freedom of movement.

Basic, simple controls for the beginners and casual players so they can finish the game + expert controls for those who want to finish it faster or with more style, discover more secrets, etc.. That's good game design.

 

[ArynCrinn]

Galaxy has my favorite of all his movesets. Couple things from SM64 are gone(for the better I think, the spinning is more accurate and feels better than the melee combo), but they added some fun stuff like the homing stomp and the awesome double kick

I loved being able to save a bad jump with a spin, or getting or top of objects I couldn't normally with a spin. I loved the "setting up" a star launcher with a shake, then releasing it with a satisfying rumble. I liked collecting all the star bits with the Wiimote, they're were visually and aurally pleasing to me, and collecting them actually unlock new areas and stages. I loved sideflipping over that motobug thing, then slammed with a homing stomp. I loved longjumping around a sphere and going allllllll the way around a full rotation, or having my jump gravitate towards another sphere without touching the ground. I loved that tactile addicting feel of chaining Yoshi tongue jumps across those flower-lever things. Moving and jumping and traversing through Galaxy 1/2 is an absolute joy.

I hate the streamlining of 3D Land. Mario is slower, less athletic, it's just...very basic, and very easy, and kinda boring at moment-to-moment basis. 3D World seems to be continuing with this seem basic moveset, and I'm not liking it.

If Mario were given better air control he wouldn't have needed to use the spin for mid-air corrections. But yeah, he needs his full arsenal back from 64, plus a lot more and a lot more polish.

A slide could combo into a sweep kick or tapping jump would allow for a ninja roll. I have no doubts the triple jump will return for 3D World though. But wall jumping needs to be less pathetic and more athletic and precise (I'm talking pin point precision) and have real distance to it. A build up sprint that allows Mario a super long jump, maybe even running up walls or through enemies. Punches and kicks needs to also return.

And along with all that, the mystery of the level design needs to come back. Those unknowns and WTF do I go need to return. And of course all the different characters should have slightly altered move sets.

And they BETTER bring back Yoshi from SMG2.

 

[Brera]

It's the second world from Mario 64 where those guys walk around and try to slam you. I think it's called whomp's fortress

That level is awesome!

Also, people using big words to describe Mario play mechanics...it's Mario. Stop taking it so serious. Super serious.

 

[Tackhead #9]

The sheer unbridled joy I felt watching a Goomba run frantically towards me... and responding by hitting him right in the face...

This justifies the punch attack to me.

 

[nkarafo]

I love this. The flow, the player agency.... puts to shame 99.99% of the games to date. How is it that this induction to the 3D world on N64 has more emphasis on character influence than almost every other game to date?

It is the only reason why I still hold SM64 in a very high regard. Jesus, those moves got me out of a pickle what would be

A) a QTE based sequence on modern AAA games

B) Where the control made me FELT like I was Mario... pure, no bullshit, no autopilot nonsense. Game developers you better step your game up I swear.

Good post. Especially the QTE part. I never thought of it that way but yes. It seems like in order to do such elaborate and impressive moves in modern games you need QTEs and scripted events... fuck that!

 

[JustRiffled]

For some reason I found it harder to do a sideways jump in Galaxy than in 64 in Sunhine, dunno if it's the control stick or what