ronaldthump
Member
Nah. It's fine.
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The start of Bloodborne and how it's freaking awful
- Thread starter Wamb0wneD
- Start date
I think he's referring to the person who replied to me. You used his post as an example despite it being more debatable than anything objective.
I didn't use any pebbles, I just triggered the enemies through their internal distance sensor (lol), which is very much accurate. Just lure the first dog (right next to the stairs). Then wait until the two people are right at the well doing their round (afair they have a dog with them too) and if you do it right you can lure just the dog with maybe one of them. The dog, of course, is much faster so you can deal with it before the other one gets the opportunity to interrupt you.
Then you wait...dude with the gun gets past near the stairs and you get behind him and kill him. After that there is only one dog.
Why do I know it so well? I played it at least 60-70 times (Milquetoast runs lol).
The game gets easier after Blood Starved Beast. Perhaps you should consider improving your skills.
Laughing Banana
Weeping Pickle
Ummmm..... not really, no? You can also just encounter a boss (Cleric or Gascoigne) and then you can level up from there...
I mean.......... be patient for a bit?
If I am not mistaken isn't BSB optional? He is a pain to deal with the first time I fought him can't wait to try it in new game plus to see if there's any difference
Muppet of a Man
Member
OP, stop trying to turtle. Evade. Also, parry with your firearm.
RetroGameAudio
Neo Member
There is a shortcut that gets you there with very little combat on the way. You go through the gate right by the lamp, go down the steps and into the dark building. Then go out the upstairs of that building, and you're right by the Cleric Beast.
There's just a couple lesser mobs on the way (none in groups), then 1 brick troll with some crows. And you can just run past them all if you wanted. It's easier than getting to the Taurus Demon from the bonfire in Dark Souls 1.
https://youtu.be/c_MWHoumGgg?t=33m40s (you can see the path starting at 33:40 in).
Omg I had a hard time with BSB on my first playthrough. On replays, I can kill him within 1-3 tries. I think I've engrained his attack patterns due to all my deaths lol.
I kicked its ass in the DLC.
Head.spawn
Junior Member
Keep going OP, I'm not very good at the game and you're making me feel great about myself rn.
Imperfected
Member
It's kind of hard to get comparative data for 1st Boss vs. 2nd Boss since a lot of the games don't have trophies for every boss. Using PSN trophies:
Dark Souls, for example, gives "Reach Lordran" as effectively the trophy for beating Asylum Demon (92.99%), but doesn't have an easy way to tell whether bosses have been beaten after that until you get to the Bells of Awakening.
DS2 (non-Scholar edition) offers the "Last Giant" trophy, which doesn't account for players who take other paths initially (though I do imagine that to be a very small percentage) at 82.13%. Again, there's no practical way to estimate the second boss number.
DS3 has the "Iudex Gundyr" Trophy (96.19%) and "Vordt of the Boreal Valley" (86.6%), giving a much clearer picture of the drop-off from 1st boss beaten to 2nd boss beaten (again, not accounting for whatever utterly inconsequential percentage of players kill the Dancer first and yet never return to beat Vordt, which I estimate to be "fucking no one").
Bloodborne technically has two "first boss" possibilities that I would honestly say are almost equally likely, "Cleric Beast" (80.65%) and "Father Gascoigne" (77.55%). Even being somewhat generous with the percentage of players who beat only one of the two--keeping in mind that the lower of the two, Gascoigne, is the non-optional one--it actually seems pretty unlikely it betters Last Giant's numbers, and probably doesn't even remotely approach the first boss numbers of the other games.
(And again, there's no easy to gauge the second boss fall-off for Bloodborne due to the number of optional bosses after Gascoigne. BSB's at 70.21% and Vicar Amelia is at 67.21%, though, so you're probably looking at a more or less Souls-standard ~10% drop-off.)
Methodology: using PSN trophies only since Bloodborne data obviously is not available for other platforms, and using Steam/XBox achievements for some games but not the others would skew the data by playerbase.
Well yeah, except i didn't find that wonderful shortcut yet that let's me circumvent the first 10 minutes of tedium that is the big ass corridor. "Just run through everything possible until the boss even though 90% of the game is about the fighting system (that's totally the obvious thing to do), then find some shortcuts without dying to the damn werewolves and then beat the boss. Now you can actually use the blood you did (not) collect so far (because you ran through everything) and level up!"
That's not what i call good design, sorry. I walked down the same corridor with 15 enemies in it for 2 hours, my patience for today is running thin. Will try again tomorrow. I like the atmosphere of the game and there's a lot of room for me to get better at the fighting system for sure, but the start of this game has problems.
Lmao @ "fucking no one". For real.
Great info though. I was wrong in assuming that the souls games just gave trophies for all bosses in general when in fact, DS1 didn't.
I see what you mean with DS3 in comparison to BB with those numbers. Seems like a bigger number of folks who have BB game data had more issue with reaching the first bosses compared to DS1 and 3.
I died at least 20 times to BSB (which is the most tries I needed for any Boss). It just didn't work...
NG+ first try. His attacks and patterns were just so much easier to grasp, because you dealt with so many enemies through the whole game, who were basically the same. Combat is actually pretty straightforward, which is the reason why I find it so amazing how you seemingly evolve from one area to another.
Oh, yeah, I hate it and the general souls elitism too, just that some rare times, that is the real answer to people's problems.
Your post in light of how this thread turned out is a bad look on you and speaks of your incompetence when it comes to reading.
True I just found that he put it into words much better than I did and there's some merit there. There isn't much objectiveness to be found in these discussions in general. I used it as an example of how I see the starting area, nothing more nothing less.
YUNG_Tru7hy
Neo Member
Are you even up to Gascoinge? Git gud! I took out Cleric beast first run. Suggest you kill some enemies unlock the doors in the level and find some 'intellect'.
Karsticles
Member
My brother in law and best friend beat the first boss within an hour of playing. They had never played a Souls game before. I didn't help them aside from teaching them controls and answering questions.
Dark Souls tricks a lot of people into thinking they are good at these games because you can hide behind a shield.
Dark Souls tricks a lot of people into thinking they are good at these games because you can hide behind a shield.
RetroGameAudio
Neo Member
Bear in mind that the lesson isn't that you have to (are or even expected to) avoid enemies. It's just that it's a viable option, which people are recommending since it makes sense in this context. If someone's patience is running thin, when they're so close to a shortcut, it makes sense to say "run for it you're almost there". That's why people are suggesting running past enemies, it's not because the game necessarily forces it or demands it.
That's what I think makes it good design, multiple approaches are made viable to a given problem. Someone going slow, carefully studying enemy movesets and locations, and pulling enemies in as small groups as possible, etc, can also be rewarded for their approach.
Edit: And to clarify, I'm not one of those "git gud" types. I don't really care for these games when they're at their hardest, and this is my favorite series. The opening area to Bloodborne IS one of the harder starting locations, but it heavily rewards exploration as well. And the challenge is reigned in enough to not be totally unfair, like the Dark Souls 2 DLC challenge areas. And then, it's not bad at all once you've gotten the shortcuts found and nabbed your first point of insight.
So keep at it you're almost over the first significant hurdle.
You're never going to learn how to play or beat the boss if you don't bother to kill the regular enemies and level up, which in turn makes the game easier...
I mean what exactly do you expect to achieve by not learning the basics of the game?
Er... the game has a very strong focus on exploration. If you explore patiently and methodically you will find all the answers you seek. Honestly, if you need Gamepro magazine to find the shortcuts in the game then maybe it's not for you because it's pretty key.
Running through them is not the "right answer". I think people are just suggesting it because OP seems to be struggling to negotiate it otherwise.
BruceLeeRoy
Banned
Hahahaha I hate to be a dick but... Yeah this
It's the better option since you can't even use the xp you gain at that point, the problem is this game is mostly about fighting enemies, not running past them, I hope people would agree there. As someone new to the game it didn't occur to me to do that. Maybe because I didn't know where to run. When someone knows where a shortcut, lantern, item or whatever is it makes sense to go there fast if you want to. I did the same in DS.
That's the approach I take but due to me not being able to make use of the xp/blood I go and the fact I had no clue where the next safe spot might be (until i made this thread) in combination with being slow because of my carefulness and animation studying a death throws me back way harder.
Thanks!
Do you really though? It's funny how people who beat the game, one even poured 600 hours into it agree with me to some extent, some completly and then you have people who just driveby to feel good about their skillz.
breadtruck
Member
No shit.
I did it as a laugh. Frankly, it was the only fun I had with that game.
Some of you guys are reading into my post too much. I wasn't surprised I couldn't beat the boss. I will say I WAS surprised I could skirt the enemies so easily to reach him though.
Hell, Im the first to admit I didnt know how to play the game, because I didnt think it was good enough for me to bother learning it. Its not fun, and I'm glad I dropped it as hard as I did.
It's not the better option, though, because running past them doesn't help you get better at the game. I'm with you on the frustration to the drive by posts, but this IS a difficult game. If you're dying over and over before the Cleric Beast that means that you don't have some of the basics down, and running past enemies certainly won't help you get those basics down.
Eventually you will get to the point to where you can breeze past those starting enemies (by killing them, not running) and that will be a sign that you are ready to take on the bosses. You're probably not going to kill the Cleric Beast if you can't clear the way to him, and certainly not Gascogine.
And once again - seeing the Cleric Beast is *not* the only way to begin leveling. I started leveling in my first playthrough before I found that shortcut or saw the Cleric Beast. Explore a bit, keep killing things until they can't touch you. It will make the rest of the game much more pleasant if you get the basics down now.
I gave you a strategy on how to kill those dogs/guys by the fountain. If those guys are killing you over and over, keep in mind this is the easiest part of the game. I'm not saying that in an elitist sense - I'm saying you need to figure out what you're doing wrong so that those guys are a breeze, that way you'll have the skills you need when things get harder and harder.
edit: I'll give you a personal anecdote. Father G was my wall in this game. It took me two days to beat him, some fights I barely got 10% of his health. I tried and tried and tried. Finally, I killed him. Since then I've beaten all the souls game, but that remains my favorite fight and one of my favorite gaming memories. It was so satisfying to struggle and then prevail.
Recently, I started a new character. When I got to Father G, I killed him without getting hit. This isn't to brag, as I probably couldn't do it twice in a row, but it showed me just how much I had gotten better by playing through the game. The beginning that seemed hard wasn't hard at all - you can easily get there too, but running past shit and not learning from mistakes will not get you there.
But you can't do that before you beat the boss.
bargeparty
Member
Not really gonna read through all this, but I just wanted to drop in and say that going through the first zone, Central Yharnam, is one of my favorite things in gaming ever.
I hadn't really played a Souls game before (attempted Demon's Souls but didn't get very far) but there was something drawing me to this game. I remember the night I bought it via some gift card shenanigans. I had to play it that night.
I knew the sort of game it was going to be, and I didn't watch much if anything in the way of playthroughs. I was in awe of the whole thing. Learning the mechanics, finding the shortcuts, finding the hidden items. I spent hours roaming around before I fought even the Cleric Beast. I wanted to find everything in that area.
Did I die a lot? Of course. Were there things and bosses/encounters that frustrated me to no end? Absolutely. But every death was a learning experience. Sometimes you just fumbled and mess up, but other times you see where you went wrong and rarely make that mistake again. I learned to be cautious. I knew early on that the game was going to throw surprises at me, so I couldn't just rush through a level, I would die easily.
The more time went on the easier it got, so to speak. There were still new challenges of course, but you had a new way of looking at them and how to overcome them. I looked forward to the next crazy boss or encounter. It's fine if people summon help for bosses and all that, but I was proud to never have, not with Bloodborne and not with DS3. Kinda lame to be proud of that, but I see it as an accomplishment. I wouldn't hesitate to look up any basic hints though, any newcomer tips and that sort. When I went through DS3 I had a guide that I followed. Reason was simple, I was there for the gameplay and I didn't want to miss anything, optional bosses, etc. For me it didn't really detract from the experience because I just wanted to enjoy the combat, fight the bosses, conquer those challenges.
These types of games aren't for everyone though. Surprising to see the OP say that they played through Dark Souls (just the first?) a few times and yet they can't grasp the concepts of Bloodborne leaves me scratching my head a little.
I've seen some bits and pieces of being told to rush through areas? I don't see much benefit in that. Yeah if you die, try to hustle back to your blood stain so you can recover the blood echoes or whatever they're called. Especially if you're not super confident that you can re-kill all those enemies again. It's a situational call. Maybe try to rush though a bit and unlock some of the shortcuts to make it easier. But you'll need the blood vials and bullets for bosses for sure. Don't try to fight Gascoigne with nothing, you'll just get pissed off. And unlocking the shortcuts is crucial for quick runs back to the bosses. Apologies if any of that was already said.
There's nothing wrong with Bloodborne's opening. The only problem is the player's approach.
Bloodborne is one of the more "perfect" games I've ever played.
I hadn't really played a Souls game before (attempted Demon's Souls but didn't get very far) but there was something drawing me to this game. I remember the night I bought it via some gift card shenanigans. I had to play it that night.
I knew the sort of game it was going to be, and I didn't watch much if anything in the way of playthroughs. I was in awe of the whole thing. Learning the mechanics, finding the shortcuts, finding the hidden items. I spent hours roaming around before I fought even the Cleric Beast. I wanted to find everything in that area.
Did I die a lot? Of course. Were there things and bosses/encounters that frustrated me to no end? Absolutely. But every death was a learning experience. Sometimes you just fumbled and mess up, but other times you see where you went wrong and rarely make that mistake again. I learned to be cautious. I knew early on that the game was going to throw surprises at me, so I couldn't just rush through a level, I would die easily.
The more time went on the easier it got, so to speak. There were still new challenges of course, but you had a new way of looking at them and how to overcome them. I looked forward to the next crazy boss or encounter. It's fine if people summon help for bosses and all that, but I was proud to never have, not with Bloodborne and not with DS3. Kinda lame to be proud of that, but I see it as an accomplishment. I wouldn't hesitate to look up any basic hints though, any newcomer tips and that sort. When I went through DS3 I had a guide that I followed. Reason was simple, I was there for the gameplay and I didn't want to miss anything, optional bosses, etc. For me it didn't really detract from the experience because I just wanted to enjoy the combat, fight the bosses, conquer those challenges.
These types of games aren't for everyone though. Surprising to see the OP say that they played through Dark Souls (just the first?) a few times and yet they can't grasp the concepts of Bloodborne leaves me scratching my head a little.
I've seen some bits and pieces of being told to rush through areas? I don't see much benefit in that. Yeah if you die, try to hustle back to your blood stain so you can recover the blood echoes or whatever they're called. Especially if you're not super confident that you can re-kill all those enemies again. It's a situational call. Maybe try to rush though a bit and unlock some of the shortcuts to make it easier. But you'll need the blood vials and bullets for bosses for sure. Don't try to fight Gascoigne with nothing, you'll just get pissed off. And unlocking the shortcuts is crucial for quick runs back to the bosses. Apologies if any of that was already said.
There's nothing wrong with Bloodborne's opening. The only problem is the player's approach.
Bloodborne is one of the more "perfect" games I've ever played.
LordOfChaos
Member
-You have to see the first boss to get one insight, then you can level up in the dream. There's also a madmans knowledge somewhere near the bridge in front of him, that also gives you an insight
- The lantern is also there
- enemies can be alerted to you by sound, player detection is absolutely not janky, you probably made too much noise going up to them. And if you hit one of their buddies in the face with a rock while they can see him, yeah they'll notice you, that's not a flaw, it's thoughtful programming.
The intro is deliberately a bit tough, but it's a learning experience, once you get the hang of it you can breeze through the intro unlevelled. I didn't need to level to take the first boss either. Was my first SoulsBorne game and I loved it and didn't find it too hard.
- The lantern is also there
- enemies can be alerted to you by sound, player detection is absolutely not janky, you probably made too much noise going up to them. And if you hit one of their buddies in the face with a rock while they can see him, yeah they'll notice you, that's not a flaw, it's thoughtful programming.
The intro is deliberately a bit tough, but it's a learning experience, once you get the hang of it you can breeze through the intro unlevelled. I didn't need to level to take the first boss either. Was my first SoulsBorne game and I loved it and didn't find it too hard.
Yeah as I already said I have lot of room to improve on the combat side, as always with Souls games, but the way leveling up works for the start of the game and where the second lantern is combined with the amount of enemies thrown at you from the start is just offputting.
First thing I will do tomorrow is search for the shortcut and then work my way towards the boss. But I won't waste my time with all of these enemies as long i can't make good use of the xp i get from them.
Says the person who instead of trying out every option available to hand in the game when one option isnt working for them they instead decide to blame the game and post about how they are on the verge of quiting only 7 deaths in.
The mother-fucking-truth.
Learn to dodge, parry, riposte and be aggressive.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=V2XGp5ix8HE
Be the Beast. Let the night of the hunt take you and don't fear the old blood
BTW, there are plenty of single enemies of varying sizes near the start that you can prescribe parrying and riposting
You're hearing what you want to hear. It's not a waste of time because you need to learn the combat systems better. Leveling up will not fix the true problem. You shouldn't be dying this much on the way to either the Cleric Beast, the shortcut, or the madman's knowledge. If you level up and brute force your way through, you're going to eventually hit something you can't level past.
Yes you can, as I and others have said in this thread. In fact, you don't even have to beat the boss to unlock leveling.. just see him or die to him.
But there are other ways to trigger leveling. There are items called "Madman's knowledge" that you can find (before the Cleric Beast even) that will give you the insight you need to start leveling.
Bought the game on launch day, unaware of what type of game it was going to be. Played it for two days, and gave up. Game is terrible at explaining anything, probably the worst offender of any game Ive played.
Anyways, I let it sit for a year. Came back to it, and it is now top 10 of my favorite games. When it clicks, holy shit.
Don't give up on it, believe me.
Anyways, I let it sit for a year. Came back to it, and it is now top 10 of my favorite games. When it clicks, holy shit.
Don't give up on it, believe me.
RetroGameAudio
Neo Member
Yes you can do that before defeating the boss. Defeating the boss is not required in order to level up.
You need to gain a point of Insight before you can level up. There are two ways you can do this right now-
-Enter a boss area
-Find and use a Madman's Knowledge
Unlike humanity in Dark Souls 1, it's not something you lose with your bloodstain. So entering a boss area and then dying lets you keep that point of Insight.
Yeah, just ignore everyone in this thread who beat the game and agrees with me and call me incompetent instead. Nice way to discuss things. Read the thread or gtfo with this bs please.
Laughing Banana
Weeping Pickle
No, it's enough if you only see the boss. You don't even have to win, just see it.
See? You're just being impatient and unwilling to learn the mechanics of the game before dismissing it. At the very least give it more time, and learn its mechanics more intimately. If, after doing so, you still don't like it, then hey, c'est la vie, there is no game that fits everyone's taste, after all.
Uno Venova
Banned
I gotta say this is ironic when you just called out someone for incompetence relating to reading the thread.
BakedTanooki
Member
I remember how I played this part with fists only. Took me ages. It was my first "Souls" game and I thought "well, seems like this is just the souls like difficulty"
Was mind blown when I discovered the first weapon later, lol.
Was mind blown when I discovered the first weapon later, lol.
WilyRook
Member
I took that mob to be an invitation to being overly offensive, too. I remember thinking to myself "Fuck it," and waded in with the whip chain. Afterwards it was like looking down at a revolver in your hands after firing it for the first time. Like holy shit that's powerful. Fairly different playstyle than the other souls games. For me anyway. Even if you could level up right at the beginning, you're only talking like being able to take one more hit before death, or killing something with one less hit, more or less. In Demon's Souls you have to beat the entire first level before you can level, for instance. Leveling isn't that important, unless you want to use a specific weapon or spell or something. Upgrading weapons certainly becomes necessary, though.
Nice confirmation bias , a few people agree with you yet theres far more people who are telling you to either become a better player through experience/trial and error or are giving you tips to help you become better. But you decide to ignore them. Theres a reason people are telling you to get good. But keep on being a selective reader , im sure it'll do you good.
texhnolyze
Banned
So, you're actually a terrible player if using shield in Souls games?
What's next? You're not a true Souls player if you're wielding a weapon?
What's next? You're not a true Souls player if you're wielding a weapon?
I did barely anything else in DS than parry and I don't have much problems with the normal enemies when it comes to that. I think I need to work on the dodgin part for sure. I played DS way too much to not immediately play like i can roll 3 times and that's it.
I think I just should either do one or the other. Learning to get better at the combat or keep looking for shortcuts/items and stuff and not do both at the same time like i did with DS and the Undead Burg.
Yeah, I'll try again tomorrow.
Ahahaha where the hell do i decide to ignore them? That's fucking rich. I engaged everyone in here, even your shitpost. Stop making shit up. Talk about selective reading lmao.
I bring those "few" people up because they beat the game and share my opinion, making people that try to invalidate my opinion by solely telling me to get good look kinda shallow.
There's a guy in here who put 600 hours into Bloodborne and agrees on the premise that the start of the game is flawed in some aspects.
The people that only say get good and nothing else are here to stroke their Souls ego.
I had lot's of nice discussions in this thread with people who disagree with me. Yours wasn't one of them.
MasterMenace
Member
Dark Souls 1 so much harder lol