Support NeoGAF

[ProgenitorCastle]

Which games actually use the gamepad as more than a glorified map screen? ZombiU comes to mind as being the game with the best implementation, and that wasn't even a Nintendo game. I mean there's Mario Maker, but it's really just a touch based map editor. 3DS games had done that before. Hardly pushing boundaries there.

It had the potential to open up possibilities, but it was never realized.

I can think of some off the top my head. The Wonderful 101. Rayman Legends. ZombiU (as you already mentioned). Splatoon. Starfox Zero. Child of Light. Super Mario Maker (as you already mentioned). Others that didn't come to mind immediately are Nintendoland, Super Mario 3D World and Captain Toad: Treasure Tracker (aka Capitan Todd ). I'm sure there are others out there, but these are the ones I own.

Nah, fuck that. It DID open up possibilities. You can STILL PLAY these games I listed above on the Wii U which PROVE MY POINT that the Wii U DID open up possibilities.

Do you have any idea how the Wii U fared for Nintendo, financially? We damn near lost them as a console maker because the Wii U was such a flop. I really enjoy the Wii U, but it's unfounded to call it the best console ever based on its library. It has some gems, but they're far apart. Cherry picking a handful of games isn't what makes a good console. I'd argue that "the best console ever" is about things like impact on gaming, design, comparative power of the console, lasting appeal, etc. A great console is one that defines the future and in other ways moved gaming forward. The gamepad turned out to be a cool addition to some games, but it's certainly not a killer "can't go back now"-feature.

I honestly don't know where I stand on this post as of now. If I do pick my side re: this post, I'll edit it later maybe.

Thanks for replying to my post though, I appreciate it.

 

[TheMoon]

Do you have any idea how the Wii U fared for Nintendo, financially? We damn near lost them as a console maker because the Wii U was such a flop.

lol no. only if you live in neogafland and never go outside

 

[dafortune]

I really liked the Wii U. It was significantly better than the Wii which I sold after a couple years. The controller was pretty cool once you got it in your hands, between Miiverse Wiitv and the remote feature I actually used it a lot even when there were few games to play. That being said it's the second worse Nintendo console as far as games. Dreamcast, PS2, 360 and PS4 are also significantly ahead of it too imo...

 

[Synth]

Comparisons between Wii U and Dreamcast are silly imo, and occur only to paint the Wii U in a more positive light than I think it deserves. The Dreamcast is so often cited for a reason... and the Wii U isn't going to be looked back on in nearly the same way a decade or more from now.

-Dreamcast's specs/graphics were amazing at time of release and a huge jump over PS1 and N64. The Wii U can't claim that against over the 360 and PS3.

-Dreamcast's first party line-up is remembered for a large amount of unique games and IP beyond what Sega had already released on previous consoles. Saturn didn't have a Shenmue, a Phantasy Star Online, a Space Channel 5, a Metropolis Street Racer, a Jet Set Radio, a Rez... and so on. The Wii U's most notable games pretty much all have equivalents back on the GameCube. The Dreamcast had both iterations in the form of stuff like Virtua Fighter, Sega Rally and House of the Dead, but also a ton of legitimately new experiences. Wii U only really has the former covered.

-Dreamcast didn't suffer from huge droughts. Coming straight off launch the Wii U ran immediately into it's first software release drought. The Dreamcast amassed it's library of both stellar first party games, alongside third party standouts like Soul Calibur, Power Stone and Marvel vs Capcom 2 within a short span of two years. It's not even a remotely close comparison.

- Dreamcast brought online to consoles in a prominent way, and sorted the crappy 50hz PAL situation. Everything about it's hardware design was relevant, as opposed to tacking on a crappy tablet that brought very little to the table, and simply served to inflate the price. Which leads onto...

- Dreamcast was priced aggressively from the very start. The Wii U's price was too high at launch, and became laughable over time, as it stubbornly stayed at the same price whilst XB1 and PS4 became cheaper.

TL;DR Wii U isn't close to being Nintendo's Dreamcast. The GameCube was infinitely closer to being so.

 

[TDonk]

Bad consoles sell badly, just like the Dreamcast, Saturn, etc.

 

[KiNolin]

Comparisons between Wii U and Dreamcast are silly imo, and occur only to paint the Wii U in a more positive light than I think it deserves. The Dreamcast is so often cited for a reason... and the Wii U isn't going to be looked back on in nearly the same way a decade or more from now.

-Dreamcast's specs/graphics were amazing at time of release and a huge jump over PS1 and N64. The Wii U can't claim that against over the 360 and PS3.

-Dreamcast's first party line-up is remembered for a large amount of unique games and IP beyond what Sega had already released on previous consoles. Saturn didn't have a Shenmue, a Phantasy Star Online, a Space Channel 5, a Metropolis Street Racer, a Jet Set Radio, a Rez... and so on. The Wii U's most notable games pretty much all have equivalents back on the GameCube. The Dreamcast had both iterations in the form of stuff like Virtua Fighter, Sega Rally and House of the Dead, but also a ton of legitimately new experiences. Wii U only really has the former covered.

-Dreamcast didn't suffer from huge droughts. Coming straight off launch the Wii U ran immediately into it's first software release drought. The Dreamcast amassed it's library of both stellar first party games, alongside third party standouts like Soul Calibur, Power Stone and Marvel vs Capcom 2 within a short span of two years. It's not even a remotely close comparison.

- Dreamcast brought online to consoles in a prominent way, and sorted the crappy 50hz PAL situation. Everything about it's hardware design was relevant, as opposed to tacking on a crappy tablet that brought very little to the table, and simply served to inflate the price. Which leads onto...

- Dreamcast was priced aggressively from the very start. The Wii U's price was too high at launch, and became laughable over time, as it stubbornly stayed at the same price whilst XB1 and PS4 became cheaper.

TL;DR Wii U isn't close to being Nintendo's Dreamcast. The GameCube was infinitely closer to being so.

Indeed. These comparisons make the Dreamcast roll in its grave.

 

[Cepheus]

Agreed. Switch is already much, much better than Wii U. Both in terms of hardware and software

Literally the only reason to hang on to the Wii U now that the Switch is out is it's the only way to play Mother 1 in English legally. If it wasn't for that I would have sold mine.

 

[zoukka]

A clunky, underutilized gimmick-controller that cannot be replaced if broken.
Slow OS.
Peripheral hell.

Yeah the 1st party games were mostly good but the hardware itself was so bad.

 

[Macka]

I can think of some off the top my head. The Wonderful 101. Rayman Legends. ZombiU (as you already mentioned). Splatoon. Starfox Zero. Child of Light. Super Mario Maker (as you already mentioned). Others that didn't come to mind immediately are Nintendoland, Super Mario 3D World and Captain Toad: Treasure Tracker (aka Capitan Todd ). I'm sure there are others out there, but these are the ones I own.

Most of those games didn't really do anything special with the gamepad. What did Super Mario 3D World do that could only be done with that controller? What did Wonderful 101 do with it? Off-screen play? Splatoon was a glorified map screen. I think praising Star Fox Zero for its use of the gamepad is a bit much, too.

I'll give you Nintendoland, but I mean...it was basically made to showcase the controller. I didn't play Rayman Legends on there, but reading up on what it did it seems another decent example. Either way, my point still stands. Very few games took advantage of the second screen.

Nah, fuck that. It DID open up possibilities. You can STILL PLAY these games I listed above on the Wii U which PROVE MY POINT that the Wii U DID open up possibilities.

What? How does being able to play those games on the Wii U support your point? You can play games on any old system. I really don't know what you're getting at there.

 

[Trumpets]

I had one and it was shit.

 

[Refreshment.01]

Which games actually use the gamepad as more than a glorified map screen? ZombiU comes to mind as being the game with the best implementation, and that wasn't even a Nintendo game. I mean there's Mario Maker, but it's really just a touch based map editor. 3DS games had done that before. Hardly pushing boundaries there.

It had the potential to open up possibilities, but it was never realized.

Uses:

• Local Assymetrical Multiplayer. In this sense it opens possibilities that can't be achieved with other controllers. See Nintendo Land.
• Content Creation. The touch interface is an intuitive way to drag and drop objects and drawing. See Mario Maker and Miiverse.
• Trackpad. Pin point accuracy to select or move a cursor around. See Pikmin 3 or Trine games.
• Miscelaneous conviniences. Off TV play for most games and web streaming, Virtual Keyboard, TV remote, buold in Mic for voice chat.

Games. From memory, im sure there are some more.

• Zombi U
• Rayman Legends
• Splinter Cell Black List
• Call of Duty Black Ops 2
• Mass Effect 3
• Batman Arkham City
• Sonic All Stars Racing Transformed
• Deus Ex: Human Revolution Director's Cut
• Fatal Frame: Crimsom Butterfly
• New Super Mario Bros U
• Wii Party U
• Wii Fit U
• Made in Wario
• Nintendo Land
• Pikmin 3
• Wind Waker HD
• Twilight Princess HD
• Bayonetta 1 and 2
• Splatoon
• Mario Maker
• Star Foz Zero
• Star Fox Guard
• Affordable Space Adventures
• Trine 1 and 2
• Runbow
• Sword & Soldiers 2
• Stealth 2
• SPIN THE BOTTLE

Think besides the odd hardware priorities (re purposed Wii CPU cores and expensive multicomponet chip instead of an APU). It was the Gamepad design itself, people judged the device from apperance even without giving it a fair shake.

Imagine if Nintendo actually came up with a compeiling design for the Gamepad like the Switch. They chose instead to make a less atractive product so it could sale a refined version down the line. But i was such a failure they didn't have the chance to.

i was critical for the concept since E3 2011 in relation to the Wii. However, even today i think theres a place for the Wii U paradigm if it's executed properly.

 

[hodgy100]

The hardware was trash. It was underpowered expensive and the gimmick wasn't ready it was obviously proto switch.

But the software makes it my favourite games console from this gen.

 

[D.Lo]

-Dreamcast didn't suffer from huge droughts. Coming straight off launch the Wii U ran immediately into it's first software release drought.

Yes it did lol... from its original launch in Japan.

It was a different era where you could delay a launch an entire year in other territories, but that has to be ignored for an apples to apples comparison.

That said, I agree the Dreamcast was nothing like the Wii U. It was a crazily well done console, the best ever released by Sega in terms of hardware for time of release, maybe the best ever by anyone at the time of its Japanese launch. Really the only possible complaint I have is the name, it's dumb, sounds like a fishing rod. But it was released too late by a poorly managed company on its last legs.

Wii U was a complete mess of a console, incredibly stupid name, bad hardware, bad timing, crap gimmick, mind bogglingly insane in so many ways, despite it still getting some good games. But it was released by a (generally) well managed company, far from any risk of going out of business, who still had another quite successful platform rolling along.

 

[BocoDragon]

Ehh, no. It's not comparable to the Gamecube. Gamecube had a much better games lineup. Metroid Prime and F-Zero GX alone destroy everything the Wii U has to offer. It has two Zelda game, one is a exclusive. It has a Luigis Mansion game, and decent third party support. It had good hardware back in the day and good marketing. Comparing Wii U to GC is simply not possible.

You say this, but in its day people were downplaying the fuck out of the Gamecube as some kind of objectively lesser Nintendo library too. Some probably still would.

I have no doubt Wii U will enjoy a nostalgically favourable good reputation in years to come, in contrast to its failure in its day. Just like Gamecube. All these rules you've made about why it's an objectively worse lineup won't matter when future nostalgic gamers are fawning over memories of Splatoon, Bayonetta 2 or Mario Maker.

 

[13ruce]

Wii U brought us Splatoon so that singlehandly justifies it's existance.

But yeah it was a great console imo hated the toy look design but the libary is so good.

 

[digdug2k]

What a shame that a console that was out 1.5 years before the GC and the first xbox was weaker than both, arrogant Sony shame on you /s

You realize the wii-u shipped 1 year before the ps4 x1, right?

 

[Synth]

Yes it did lol... from its original launch in Japan.

Yea, that's fair. It's easy to forget that period as most of us simply didn't experience it, but it was there.

By US/EU launch though it was a constantly stream of notable titles right up to being discontinued. Even accounting for the first year the Wii U isn't comparable.

 

[Sanctuary]

Weird. It's one of the best consoles ever made, and yet it's the one console I've purchased the least games for.

I had a 3DO.

 

[MatrixMan.EXE]

Wii U had some of my favourite games of the past few years, but not enough of them and as far as hardware goes, it was very badly designed. Not underrated at all and actually I'd say NintendoGAF gives it more credit than it actually deserves. It was bad console with some great exclusive games.

 

[Poimandres]

Bad consoles sell badly, just like the Dreamcast, Saturn, etc.

Lol get out of here with this bait!

Sales and quality are tenuously related at best.

 

[Eirwat]

How is pikmin 3 å 2/3 party game? It's made by miyamoto.

 

[Drewfonse]

The only game that justified its purchase for me was DK Tropical Freeze.

But boy did that justify it. My favorite 2D platfformer ever.

 

[terrier]

If you like Nintendo games, it is. But if you don't... Not really.
Just like any Nintendo console after snes

 

[JThird]

Which games actually use the gamepad as more than a glorified map screen?

SMT #FE
Paper Mario: Color Splash
StarFox Zero
Fatal Frame V
Splatoon
Wonderful 101
Xenoblade X
Pikmin 3

 

[forms]

Horrible hardware, from the god-awful "controller" to the barebone insides.

But sure, great if you wanted to experience the regular Nintendo crew.

 

[Hermii]

I think most of the best Wii U games will be ported to the Switch sooner or later, and with almost all of Nintendos internal developers working on one platform for the first time ever I'm sure the Switch first party library is going to make Wii U pale in comparison,

 

[ajim]

It was OK at best. My least favorite Nintendo console for sure.

 

[ProgenitorCastle]

Most of those games didn't really do anything special with the gamepad. What did Super Mario 3D World do that could only be done with that controller? What did Wonderful 101 do with it? Off-screen play? Splatoon was a glorified map screen. I think praising Star Fox Zero for its use of the gamepad is a bit much, too.

I'll give you Nintendoland, but I mean...it was basically made to showcase the controller. I didn't play Rayman Legends on there, but reading up on what it did it seems another decent example. Either way, my point still stands. Very few games took advantage of the second screen.


What? How does being able to play those games on the Wii U support your point? You can play games on any old system. I really don't know what you're getting at there.

Super Mario 3D World had you blow into it's microphone that could elevate certain platforms. The Wonderful 101 had PLENTY OF inventive imo uses for the 2nd screen, one of my favorites in which you climb on platforms as Wonder White on the Gamepad screen and on the main display, an enemy is attacking w/ energy beams so you gotta switch back and forth between the screens as the enemy attacks on one screen (the main display) and on the other (the Gamepad), you gotta look out as Wonder White to make sure the enemy's energy beams don't hit and electrocute the platform you're on. As a result, sometimes you gotta stop in order for the energy beam zapping the platform in front of you to go away, then proceed. That's one of MANY imo brilliant examples of creative 2nd screen usage I'm still upset never took off. TRULY FELT NEXT-GEN ON A GAMEPLAY LEVEL TO ME.

SMT #FE
Paper Mario: Color Splash
StarFox Zero
Fatal Frame V
Splatoon
Wonderful 101
Xenoblade X
Pikmin 3

THANK YOU for doing like, god's work

 

[lewisgone]

Perhaps the only Nintendo console I own that I don't actually enjoy using. Hate holding the gamepad, hate the design of the console, hate the UI and there are barely any Wii U exclusive games I enjoy to make owning one worth it. If it weren't for Zelda remasters and the fact that I have all my OG Wii save data on it, I would probably get rid of it.

 

[JThird]

I think most of the best Wii U games will be ported to the Switch

Will be downgraded to the Switch without second screen. Original experience still superior.

 

[electroshockwave]

SMT #FE
Paper Mario: Color Splash
StarFox Zero
Fatal Frame V
Splatoon
Wonderful 101
Xenoblade X
Pikmin 3

Is it not just a map screen in Splatoon? I'm not counting the gyro aiming because that's something that would have been available with DS3 or 4 and there's no reason they couldn't have put gyros in the pro controller.

 

[Donniewahlberg]

Really loved the Wii U, hardware and software. It reminded me of the consoles I had as a kid, nice and simple and straightforward, focused on the game experience as a console, but with relatively modern features as well. It was enough for me anyway. Also really happy it was my boy's *first console* and that he'll have fond memories regarding it.

 

[Vigilant Walrus]

The Wii and Wii U are not good at all. I think Switch is a return to form, if they can go beyond rereleasing their own games and get proper third party support!

 

[JThird]

Is it not just a map screen in Splatoon?

Realtime coloring map.
Special weapons using.
8bit mini games during matchmaking.
Miiverse arts.
Gyro aiming.

 

[FunkyDealer]

Literally the only reason to hang on to the Wii U now that the Switch is out is it's the only way to play Mother 1 in English legally. If it wasn't for that I would have sold mine.

Nah man. I'm holding on to mine cause it's tremendous as a BC system! It can play Wii U, Wii and Gamecube games natively. And then there's the sprinkling of Virtual Console in top of that.

No other modern console (or any?) can claim being a perfect 3-in-1. Xbone will be dope when they get OG Xbox support in, but that's still curated emulation.

 

[TDonk]

Lol get out of here with this bait!

Sales and quality are tenuously related at best.

Only to an initial extent.

The console didn't have legs and fell apart for being a bad overall product.

 

[ProgenitorCastle]

The Wii and Wii U are not good at all. I think Switch is a return to form, if they can go beyond rereleasing their own games and get proper third party support!

Blah blah BLAH to this post.

 

[VDenter]

The Wii U was a complete disaster. I do not think a Nintendo console could of been much worse honestly. The switch seems to be a return to form for the most part.

 

[hzsn724]

I like the Wii U a whole bunch and I have a ton of respect for what they tried to do, but it doesn't take away from the fact that I'd be sitting with my Wii U wishing I had something else at times. Big name releases like Fatal Frame 5 and Bayonetta 2 were great, but they were pretty much one and done for me. No reason to go back. I also hate how slow it is, how you can't go into the settings within a game, how terrible miiverse is/was, and the game pad has a laundry list of problems from it's battery to it being irreplaceable if broken.

But I do love the off TV play, the amazing first party of games, the VC which has an insane amount of games, the Wii BC, and it was really the only party system of that gen. When ppl came over we played MK8 and Mario 3D World.

 

[Weltall Zero]

1 good jrpg. 3 good action games. 1 good hunting game. 1 good fighting game. 1 good racing game. 1 good 2d platformer. 1 good 3d platformer.

A 350 dollar console that came out in 2013.

Holy shit, I didn't remember that launch price. I was going to agree that it's an amazing console with some utterly amazing games in it, but I got a Deluxe for less than 200€ in early 2014. I can see how someone paying full price would have a completely different view.

 

[Airola]

I can think of some off the top my head. The Wonderful 101. Rayman Legends. ZombiU (as you already mentioned). Splatoon. Starfox Zero. Child of Light. Super Mario Maker (as you already mentioned). Others that didn't come to mind immediately are Nintendoland, Super Mario 3D World and Captain Toad: Treasure Tracker (aka Capitan Todd ). I'm sure there are others out there, but these are the ones I own.

Also Game & Wario.

The "Pictionary" game there was absolutely hilarious. You couldn't do the same with any other console. Well, maybe with some tablet or smartphone app that could be done, but fuck that.

 

[LordKasual]

I really can't think of a shittier console honestly

The WiiU was terrible, especially in contrast with the generation it released in

First party support was great, as usual, but lol if you wanted to play anything else

 

[Wireframe]

I can't hate a console that gave me as much time as XCX did.

 

[Macka]

Realtime coloring map.
Special weapons using.
8bit mini games during matchmaking.
Miiverse arts.
Gyro aiming.

Most of those aren't things that could only be accomplished by the gamepad though. Or necessary to the gameplay, as seen in Splatoon 2. They're just conveniences. The original argument was that the gamepad was somehow opening up possibilities for gaming, which...I agree was possible with that controller, as shown by games like NintendoLand and ZombiU which offered experiences you couldn't get on any other system. Largely though, I don't think it was a success. The vast majority of games did not control in ways that made use of the gamepad, they just offered handy conveniences.

Super Mario 3D World had you blow into it's microphone that could elevate certain platforms.

Seriously? Blowing on the controller is considered an achievement in game design? Not only were things like that already done years prior on the DS, but...it's not good.

Uses:

• Local Assymetrical Multiplayer. In this sense it opens possibilities that can't be achieved with other controllers. See Nintendo Land.
• Content Creation. The touch interface is an intuitive way to drag and drop objects and drawing. See Mario Maker and Miiverse.
• Trackpad. Pin point accuracy to select or move a cursor around. See Pikmin 3 or Trine games.
• Miscelaneous conviniences. Off TV play for most games and web streaming, Virtual Keyboard, TV remote, buold in Mic for voice chat.

I've already conceded that Nintendo Land is a good example. It was a launch game designed to showcase how the controller could be used to offer unique gameplay experiences though. I don't think any other games had local asymmetric multiplayer.

Not going to give it points for touch controls when the DS had been doing that years before.
Not going to give it points for an accurate trackpad. We're talking about how the system 'pushed boundaries' here.
Doesn't get points for conveniences. Again, we're talking about how the controls 'opening up possibilities for gaming'. Off TV play is a neat feature, but it wasn't doing that.

 

[RadarScope1]

Seriously? Blowing on the controller is considered an achievement in game design? Not only were things like that already done years prior on the DS, but...it's not good.

It's actually a gimmick that goes back to 1983 with the Famicom controller 2 mic.

 

[butman]

You can play all the exclusives in less than 2 months.

 

[Cepheus]

Nah man. I'm holding on to mine cause it's tremendous as a BC system! It can play Wii U, Wii and Gamecube games natively. And then there's the sprinkling of Virtual Console in top of that.

No other modern console (or any?) can claim being a perfect 3-in-1. Xbone will be dope when they get OG Xbox support in, but that's still curated emulation.

The Wii U can play GameCube games?

 

[Hermii]

The Wii U can play GameCube games?

Yep.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=927094

 

[kami_sama]

To be honest, I think that the Wii U by itself (only hardware) is not very good.
Fairly bad performance, with the extra cost of the screen controller, etc.

But it has the usual Nintendo games, and it saves it somewhat.
In the end not even the games made me purchase one though. I am not a home console gamer, so I use the pc for stationary gaming and the portable Nintendo console of the time for gaming "on the move".
That's why I purchased the Switch, even if I didn't get the Switch. Because I can play it anywhere.

 

[Gotdatmoney]

It's one of the worst systems from a major manufacturer. The hardware was awful. The UI was shit. The only saving grace js that the Nintendo titles were good and MH3U was really good.