Support NeoGAF

[schuelma]

I'm not sure which audience Nintendo was targeting with the Wii U, but I'm sure it wasn't anyone from the human race. Maybe penguins since I know they're amused by doing nothing. So with that in mind, I can definitely understand your opinion Bruce. It makes complete sense to me.

You should really have to put some sort of disclaimer at the end of your posts when discussing the console wars.

 

[Jigolo]

That's unfortunate op. The only reason I bought the Wii U is because I'm really interested in those games, haha.

Smash 4 is my GOTY

 

[digoutyoursoul]

I am waiting to see what they do with their next system, apart from Bayonetta and maybe Star Fox there is nothing I want to make me want to buy a Wii U. I am hoping they improve their online infrastructure for a start and perhaps create more i.p in different genres, the platforming stuff is not doing anything for me.

 

[ShogunDarius]

Well hopefully it'll get better next year for everyone(it's already looking that way) I mean that's how first years usually are. Wasn't wii u in this same position back when it launched before hitting it's stride?

there was a nasty gap between launch and well any new titles first or third, iirc there was Ninja Gaiden in Jan 2013 then another gap, but then it picked up in a rather amazing 4-5 month period of First Party stuff.

 

[VLiberty]

OP is right, for the wrong reasons. Wii U is the weakest console out there, but that's because its competitors are going to have an extremely large selection of games due to the third party support over, I guess, a long lifespan.

That said: Wii U is a great system on its own and I'm glad it's getting a bit more love on gaf lately.

 

[nomorenick]

Look up the definition of objectivity. If you have to argue it, it's not objective.

"Journalistic objectivity is a significant principle of journalistic professionalism. Journalistic objectivity can refer to fairness, disinterestedness, factuality, and nonpartisanship, but most often encompasses all of these qualities." - Wikipedia

That's not true. Objectivity is about recognizing merits and things that are factually sound. And doing that without bringing in your own background (ex: regardless of if you like or hate mario kart games, you still have to recognize the good and the bad that it brings from a purely technical level).

There is a place for person opinion and emotion based reviewing, but all of that should be kept separate from the actual merits of a game on a technical gameplay level.

 

[schuelma]

OP is right, for the wrong reasons. Wii U is the weakest console out there, but that's because its competitors have/are going to have an extremely large selection of games due to the third party support.
.

I think this is a pretty succinct and accurate summary. For a fan of Nintendo games, I would say that right now the system is worth it and there are some truly excellent entries in popular Nintendo series.

For people who need more variety and are into genres that Nintendo does not really provide, Wii U is undoubtedly a "weak" system.

 

[Camjo-Z]

So you bought a system for certain games... that hadn't been announced or even hinted at... and now you're complaining about it? I don't think you really have a leg to stand on here.

 

[Frodo]

Cod 1 - 91
Cod 2 - 89
Cod 4 - 94
Cod WaW - 85
Cod Mw2 - 94
Cod Mw3 - 88
Cod BO - 88
...

Everyone Buy a PC, Im sure the next CoD Will be awesome !

People believe what they want, and they see only what they want to. I wonder how many of you would cover for Xbox if 5/10 were Halo related games, and PS4 Uncharted games.
Wii U didnt save Bayonetta, actually the reverse.

1st: Exactly. Your post proves it.

2nd: BWAHAHAWHAWHWAHWAHHWA!

Let me go and play a Bayonetta 2 now.

 

[7threst]

I don't understand how somebody could not like Tropical Freeze. It's just so good, man. I can't think of a single bad thing to say about it.

It doesn't matter how often I read posts like this, I absolutely dislike it, except for the amazing soundtrack. And I love platformers.

I also understand what OP is saying, it's perfecty fine to be disappointed by Wii U's offerings. I love my Wii U though.

 

[orthodoxy1095]

What justifies charging for access to online multiplayer itself?

Upkeep of the service and development of new features and improvements to stability would be the primary rationale. And you can't really talk about "paying for it itself," because the services don't exist in an incentiveless vacuum.

 

[……forgetit]

I mean I feel for you OP, I've made the same mistake and I had to learn from it, rule of thumb, if what you want isn't announced don't buy the console.

 

[Exile20]

So you bought a system for certain games... that hadn't been announced or even hinted at... and now you're complaining about it? I don't think you really have a leg to stand on here.

This is such a ridiculous thread.

 

[Projectjustice]

You have a PS4 and an Xbox One?

I dont but my brother has a PS4. I play it over there.

 

[MrNyarlathotep]

Honestly I expect it will. I know X Chronicles will be amazing as will Zelda and SMG3 (See we all know its coming right?)

I really don't know why SMG3 would be assumed to be a thing that is definitely going to happen any more than an SMS2 or a Mario64 2 would be.

 

[MoogleWizard]

I'm not sure you quite understand what objectivity is.

Here's a hint: The fact that reviews exist for it where opinions are expressed regarding its quality eliminates it from being called "objectively" anything (other than "it exists").

The general consensus of how a work is received is an indicator of its quality, sorry. If you can't agree to that you might as well stop discussing any works altogether. I don't care for the Last of Us, but I can see that it is a well made game, so objectively I'd call it a well made game, just not my cup of tea.

 

[Phoenician_Viking]

we are talking first party here, of which none of the games you mentioned are, bar Infamous

It´s so funny that it always has to be about exclusives, and disregard third parties and indy games. The games that he mentioned are not coming to the WiiU, and a large amount of people enjoy them.

 

[cheesekao]

"Journalistic objectivity is a significant principle of journalistic professionalism. Journalistic objectivity can refer to fairness, disinterestedness, factuality, and nonpartisanship, but most often encompasses all of these qualities." - Wikipedia

That's not true. Objectivity is about recognizing merits and things that are factually sound. And doing that without bringing in your own background (ex: regardless of if you like or hate mario kart games, you still have to recognize the good and the bad that it brings from a purely technical level).

There is a place for person opinion and emotion based reviewing, but all of that should be kept separate from the actual merits of a game on a technical gameplay level.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/objective
1ob·jec·tive adjective \əb-ˈjek-tiv, äb-\
: based on facts rather than feelings or opinions : not influenced by feelings

Bayo2 is a game made by platinum. Objective fact.
Bayo2 is an well made game made by platinum. Subjective opinion.

There's no two ways around it.

 

[pablonerru]

I'm not sure what you're saying? My only point is Nintendo funded exclusives that do something new. I mean I have a PS4, and I enjoy the indie train as much as the next guy, but you can't just say Nintendo is just releasing the same things when they have new franchises on the system.

It doesn't seem like people care all that much for them though.


Doesn't seem like it made sense to fund some of those games.

 

[SSReborn]

there was a nasty gap between launch and well any new titles first or third, iirc there was Ninja Gaiden in Jan 2013 then another gap, but then it picked up in a rather amazing 4-5 month period of First Party stuff.

Cool well there is still hope seeing as Nintendo bounced back so strongly. Even hope for the OP to get the games he's looking for I think in 3 - 4 years time we'll all look back at threads like this and laugh because we'll have more than enough games to play; may be even earlier than that.

 

[danmaku]

^ cool name tag

I get the only gaming fix I need from Wii U + some minor PC gaming. I see potential in the PS4 but I wouldn't purchase one for at least another year, probably at least two years. It's a console that will no doubt have a good future with titles considering it's popularity. Nintendo however has the games I want to play now. And their library will only improve. Personal preference blah blah. Why does Wii U in particular always get these kinds of threads that are such polar opposites by different individuals?

Because it's a very polarizing system. If you like Nintendo games, you'll love it because so far all of their releases were high quality. They didn't release anything disappointing like a Mario Sunshine or Metroid Other M. But if you don't like them, the console is a black hole. There's nothing. So most people either love it to death or don't even consider it a console.

 

[Fancy Clown]

Does every "I got a wiiu" thread needs to be sugar-coated with blind praise for them to be acceptable? Its still a very much flawed system with games that only appeal to one type of public. If anything my opinion falls more in line with what the op said than to all the hypocritical "get a wii hype threads - it has the best games of the year period - every third party sucks good riddance" we've seen popping since last year, sorry...

I don't have a wiiU and I have no stakes in whether a thread about it is positive or negative. My qualms are with threads that are "I got this system and don't like it because it doesn't have games that I don't like" or "I got this system and I love it because it has games that I like". That doesn't foster discussion. Why even take the time to type it out? So you can hear various internet strangers rattle off if they too like or dislike something that you do?

What more is there to say?

 

[……forgetit]

It doesn't seem like people care all that much for them though.


Doesn't seem like it made sense to fund some of those games.

My God is that a painful video, why would you even do that?

 

[Phoenician_Viking]

well my original post, my argument was first party wise Nintendo has done better than Sony and MS this gen and the person who quoted said I should base that on first year output, which is what the post you quoted did.

No, Nintendo is missing third parties, therefor Nintendo has not done better than MS and Sony.

 

[Verendus]

A little worried for you now Bruce. Only four pages into this thread, and using my genius mathematical ability, I already count 19 posters who seem to be simmering with rage underneath the surface. I hope you're prepared to use those martial arts skills that I hope you decided to begin practicing and honing since you were seven years old in the mean streets of your hometown where you fought your way to the top, and only retired, but can still bring back the rusty but never forgotten skills of legend.

Godzilla be with you.

 

[Michael F. Assbender]

"Journalistic objectivity is a significant principle of journalistic professionalism. Journalistic objectivity can refer to fairness, disinterestedness, factuality, and nonpartisanship, but most often encompasses all of these qualities." - Wikipedia

That's not true. Objectivity is about recognizing merits and things that are factually sound. And doing that without bringing in your own background (ex: regardless of if you like or hate mario kart games, you still have to recognize the good and the bad that it brings from a purely technical level).

There is a place for person opinion and emotion based reviewing, but all of that should be kept separate from the actual merits of a game on a technical gameplay level.

You seem well-meaning enough, so I'm going to assume you had no ill intent by posting a Wikipedia entry on journalistic objectivity when I asked for a definition of objectivity. What you did is akin to giving me a picture of a cow's udder when I asked for a plate of macaroni and cheese. They're loosely related, but they ain't the same.

Let's go with the Webster's dictionary definition:

"based on facts rather than feelings or opinions : not influenced by feelings."

The quality of a game and its gameplay can never be objective. There is no wiggle room on this. It is literally impossible.

 

[cheesekao]

I don't have a wiiU and I have no stakes in whether a thread about it is positive or negative. My qualms are with threads that are "I got this system and don't like it because it doesn't have games that I don't like" or "I got this system and I love it because it has games that I like". That doesn't foster discussion. Why even take the time to type it out? So you can hear various internet strangers rattle off if they too like or dislike something that you do?

What more is there to say?

Seems kinda like those facebook posts where people call themselves ugly just so that other people will tell them that they're beautiful. I guess some people just want some assurance or something. I may be wrong though.

 

[nomorenick]

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/objective
1ob·jec·tive adjective \əb-ˈjek-tiv, äb-\
: based on facts rather than feelings or opinions : not influenced by feelings

Bayo2 is a game made by platinum. Objective fact.
Bayo2 is an good game made by platinum. Subjective opinion.

There's no two ways around it.

Bayo2 has a great combat system and plays extremely well. Objective fact
Bayo2 is not my kind of game and I don't like the controls all that much. Subjective opinion.

Let's do this with another game while we're at it!

Super Mario World: a fantastic platformer that is built on solid mechanics and great game design. Objective fact
Super Mario World: I never liked platformers and Mario is a stereotype. Subjective opinion

 

[MrNyarlathotep]

It´s so funny that it always has to be about exclusives, and disregard third parties and indy games. The games that he mentioned are not coming to the WiiU, and a large amount of people enjoy them.

Indies and third parties on the Eshop are routinely ignored in the same discussion so...

 

[freethoughtbubble]

Damn, the bitterness from some of the Nintendo fans in here is just crazy. I mean, each camp has its diehard and nuts, but you folks are coming down hard and fast on what seems to be an innocent topic from the OP.

What amazes me most is that the same people thread-whining over the existence of this thread because it basically boils down to "I don't like a thing" are the very same people who drone on and on with orgasmic joy in the countless "I love a thing" threads about the WiiU. The hypocrisy is astounding.

I can't even go into those WiiU threads without my keyboard getting mysteriously sticky, yet the mere mention of dislike for a Nintendo product might as well be an endorsement of genocide.

If you don't like that he doesn't like your favoritest thing, ignore it. Complaining isn't going to change his mind.

I'm not sure I agree with this sentiment. Sony, MS, and PC fans can get just as knee-jerk when it comes to "dissenting" opinions. It really hasn't struck me as a phenomenon relegated to just Nintendo fans.

I don't like when it happens, as it's childish, often mean-spirited, and just generally indicative of insecurity in one's own interests. All opinions should be respected and even if you think someone's opinion is stupid, the best policy might be to cordially disagree or simply not reply in the first place. Apathy is the death knell of bad threads.

Having said all that, I will never understand being bothered by other people gushing about something they enjoy. Even if there's an undercurrent of advocacy in that gushing. (People push things they like. It's human nature.) I don't have much interest in halo games anymore but the fact that some people are all about it and celebrate their appreciation in self contained threads doesn't offend me. That would be...weird of me.

For lack of a better word, isn't that the very definition of a hater?

 

[Einbroch]

Bayo2 has a great combat system and plays extremely well. Objective fact
Bayo2 is not my kind of game and I don't like the controls all that much. Subjective opinion.

Let's do this with another game while we're at it!

Super Mario World: a fantastic platformer that is built on solid mechanics and great game design. Objective fact
Super Mario World: I never liked platformers and Mario is a stereotype. Subjective opinion

Are you trolling? I can't tell anymore.

 

[Rush2thestart]

Well, I've seen you in many Wii U threads bashing the console, not really surprised you dont like it. What I'm wondering is why you thought this thread was necessary considering the former, and moreover... why you bought a Wii U.

 

[TheMoon]

I am waiting to see what they do with their next system, apart from Bayonetta and maybe Star Fox there is nothing I want to make me want to buy a Wii U. I am hoping they improve their online infrastructure for a start and perhaps create more i.p in different genres, the platforming stuff is not doing anything for me.

Strategy games, multiplayer shooters, spectacle brawlers, action/shooter hybrids, puzzle adventures, open world RPGs, various action games not doing it for you either?

Also, what's wrong with their "online infrastructure?" Everything works.

 

[nomorenick]

You seem well-meaning enough, so I'm going to assume you had no ill intent by posting a Wikipedia entry on journalistic objectivity when I asked for a definition of objectivity. What you did is akin to giving me a picture of a cow's udder when I asked for a plate of macaroni and cheese. They're loosely related, but they ain't the same.

Let's go with the Webster's dictionary definition:

"based on facts rather than feelings or opinions : not influenced by feelings."

The quality of a game and its gameplay can never be objective. There is no wiggle room on this. It is literally impossible.

Maybe I'm having trouble getting the point across then. All I'm saying is that there are certain games that hold value beyond your personal feelings on the game. I hate the mario galaxy games, for example, but that doesn't mean that I don't understand that they are the gold standard for 3D platforming. I get that because my opinion on the game does not influence my appreciation of it.

English is not my native language so sorry if it's coming off weird.

 

[cheesekao]

Bayo2 has a great combat system and plays extremely well.Objective fact
Bayo2 is not my kind of game and I don't like the controls all that much. Subjective opinion.

Let's do this with another game while we're at it!

Super Mario World: a fantastic platformer that is built on solid mechanics and great game design. Objective fact
Super Mario World: I never liked platformers and Mario is a stereotype. Subjective opinion

Bayonetta has input stacking that is similar to stored rolls in dark souls but to a lesser degree. It therefore does not have a great combat system to me. If I can argue about the game mechanics then it is not an objective fact anymore.

English is not my native language so sorry if it's coming off weird.

I see what the problem is now.

 

[wildfire]

Bayo2 has a great combat system and plays extremely well. Objective fact
Bayo2 is not my kind of game and I don't like the controls all that much. Subjective opinion.

Let's do this with another game while we're at it!

Super Mario World: a fantastic platformer that is built on solid mechanics and great game design. Objective fact
Super Mario World: I never liked platformers and Mario is a stereotype. Subjective opinion

The first statement is subjective. I don't disagree with the statement itself but it isn't objective.


Your mistake is putting the subjective qualifiers "great" and "extremely well" in your statement.

 

[Phoenician_Viking]

How? It's the best.

First Party Nintendo games > generic FPS. The vast majority of the rest can be had better on PC. And Bayo 2 > Any Xbox One or PS4 game.

The PS4 and One are underpowered and overpriced. $60/year paywall for online multi is indefensible. And inferior multiplats to PC - objectively. Mods + framerates + free online + better graphics/framerate + cheaper games themselves + better controls (fps)/more control options etc...

Lol.

 

[skLaFarebear]

So you only like 4 Nintendo IPs and nothing else, so you bought a Wii U, even though half of those games you like aren't even out (yet) and now you're complaining about it?

Did you think they were gonna make nothing but Zelda, 3D Mario, Metroid and Star Fox games in the next year or something?

 

[Michael F. Assbender]

Bayo2 has a great combat system and plays extremely well. Objective fact
Bayo2 is not my kind of game and I don't like the controls all that much. Subjective opinion.

Let's do this with another game while we're at it!

Super Mario World: a fantastic platformer that is built on solid mechanics and great game design. Objective fact
Super Mario World: I never liked platformers and Mario is a stereotype. Subjective opinion

Wow, okay. No.

Your statement that "Super Mario World: a fantastic platformer that is built on solid mechanics and great game design" is objective is absolutely incorrect. As soon as you use words like "fantastic" or "solid," you're making a subjective statement.

"Super Mario World exists." That's objective fact. You can't argue against it (unless you're of the philosophical bent that there is no such thing as objective reality, but the rest of us just laugh at those folks).

"Super Mario World is good/bad/well made/etc" is subjective, because you're giving an opinion of it.

 

[OmegaDL50]

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/objective
1ob·jec·tive adjective \əb-ˈjek-tiv, äb-\
: based on facts rather than feelings or opinions : not influenced by feelings

Bayo2 is a game made by platinum. Objective fact.
Bayo2 is an well made game made by platinum. Subjective opinion.

There's no two ways around it.

It's not simply that cut and dry.

One can acknowledge the quality of something and dislike it just the same.

For example I don't like War based FPS titles like CoD or Battlefield (My opinion) but I recognize their appeal to other people.

The general consensus of how a work is received is an indicator of its quality, sorry. If you can't agree to that you might as well stop discussing any works altogether. I don't care for the Last of Us, but I can see that it is a well made game, so objectively I'd call it a well made game, just not my cup of tea.

This is on point with what I mean.

 

[Coffee Dog]

The SNES is the weakest console.

I don't care about Mario.
I don't care about Donkey Kong.
I don't care about Zelda.
I don't care about Mario Kart.

Where is my Kid Icarus, StarTropics and Mach Rider? And don't even get me started on how they ruined Punch-Out.

 

[Hunter S.]

Yeah, I have no desire for a Wii U. Zelda has not been good since the N64. I hate Smash Bros. I can live without Mario Kart, 2D Mario and 3D Mario.

PS4 and X1 offer me so much more.

 

[QaaQer]

Same situation as BLRoy, although I'm only a 3d mario guy and 3d mario world was kinda crap. So it sits unplugged waiting. . . .

 

[BruceLeeRoy]

I really don't know why SMG3 would be assumed to be a thing that is definitely going to happen any more than an SMS2 or a Mario64 2 would be.

Wasn't SMG2 one of the best selling games on the system?

So you only like 4 Nintendo IPs and nothing else, so you bought a Wii U, even though half of those games you like aren't even out (yet) and now you're complaining about it?

Did you think they were gonna make nothing but Zelda, 3D Mario, Metroid and Star Fox games in the next year or something?

I actually like a lot of Nintendo IP's but those are the 4 most likely to see continued sequels and I only wanted at least 1.

 

[nomorenick]

Bayonetta has input stacking that is similar to stored rolls in dark souls but to a lesser degree. It therefore does not have a great combat system to me. If I can argue about the game mechanics then it is not an objective fact anymore.


I see what the problem is now.

I might have phrased it wrong. I'm just trying to say that some games accomplish things that are greater than one's personal feelings. Maybe objective is not the right word.

A game can be a bad and poorly made game, but I can still like it. Just like there could be a phenomenal game that I dislike. I really believe that there is such a thing as good and bad games before your personal opinion comes on.

I think using the word objective alienated people and deterred from what I was trying to say. Hope this is a little clearer

 

[Always-honest]

To who? Sony and Microsoft? Who is he going to offend here by saying that?

Well, some people, even people older than teenagers, are buying consoles. And some of the exclusive games are completely fantastic and not available on the other consoles or pc. Also, a lot of those games make better use of the capabilities of the console than multiplats. For multiplats, sure, the PC is the way to go. And a WiiU beside it is great if you like the games. I love the games, so i have one. But everyone has to make choices based on their budget. And most will make that choice based on the games they know and love. The "low-level" pc thing is also a bit hyperbolic for my taste.

Ofcourse i realise some people are also a bit scared of building their own pc or don't have the money to just buy a really good one.

 

[cheesekao]

It's not simply that cut and dry.

One can acknowledge the quality of something and dislike it just the same.

For example I don't like War based FPS titles like CoD or Battlefield (My opinion) but I recognize their appeal to other people.



This is on point with what I mean.

At the end of the day, it is you who don't like the game. Recognizing that other people may like a game that you don't like doesn't make a game objectively good.

 

[BruceLeeRoy]

A little worried for you now Bruce. Only four pages into this thread, and using my genius mathematical ability, I already count 19 posters who seem to be simmering with rage underneath the surface. I hope you're prepared to use those martial arts skills that I hope you decided to begin practicing and honing since you were seven years old in the mean streets of your hometown where you fought your way to the top, and only retired, but can still bring back the rusty but never forgotten skills of legend.

Godzilla be with you.

Haha may Godzilla be with me indeed.

I mean I feel for you OP, I've made the same mistake and I had to learn from it, rule of thumb, if what you want isn't announced don't buy the console.

Hard lesson

 

[Michael F. Assbender]

The general consensus of how a work is received is an indicator of its quality, sorry. If you can't agree to that you might as well stop discussing any works altogether. I don't care for the Last of Us, but I can see that it is a well made game, so objectively I'd call it a well made game, just not my cup of tea.

But quality is subjective and can never be objective. Herd mentality toward its quality doesn't make its quality any less of a subjective thing.

You can't say something is "well made" and call that statement objective. Objectivity is limited to observable, verifiable, inarguable reality.

 

[skLaFarebear]

I actually like a lot of Nintendo IP's but those are the 4 most likely to see continued sequels and I only wanted at least 1.

Star Fox is in development and is gonna happen, and I'd be completely shocked if we don't see a new Metroid game in the next few years. Honestly, it would have been better just to wait if you wanted the IPs you liked though. But I understand how easy it is to buy into the hype and gun jump on a purchase.

Hopefully your experience with the console gets better over the years if you decide not to sell it.