toddhunter
Member
It is easy. I have had a novel planned every year since I was about 14.
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The Writing-GAF Mega Thread
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It is easy. I have had a novel planned every year since I was about 14.
H.Protagonist
[-_-]/
When you guys are ready to bottle and sell that shit, I will be first in line to buy it. \[-_-]/
toddhunter
Member
I don't think it'll sell that well. I haven't actually written any of them.
I lost my job, but I knew it was coming so I have enough saved up to get by without one for about a year. Used to work in IT, but now I'd like to shoot for a job that involves writing in some way, and not necessarily fiction. Only I don't know where to start. Any suggestion of things I ought to look into? I have no professional experience, except for a few video game reviews on websites that no longer exist, so it's a little hard to put them on a resume. I'm currently brushing up on my SQL scripting, and it's depressing me.
MidnightCowboy
Member
I got an email from Amazon about mystery suggestions and the first one was Freeze Kill. I don't know if the list is randomized for different emails, but I thought it was pretty cool.
cosmicblizzard
Banned
Neat!
Though it probably just happened because you clicked on the Amazon page once or twice. I highly doubt something as unknown as that would appear randomly. It's always getting sent to me as well since I check the ranking every so often.
AngmarsKing701
Member
Just did my first ever author interview. Basic form letter kind of stuff, but still pretty cool.
Figured I'd post it here and in the reading thread because I mention GAF.
http://awesomegang.com/brian-lang/
Thanks, all!
Figured I'd post it here and in the reading thread because I mention GAF.
http://awesomegang.com/brian-lang/
Thanks, all!
Sniper McBlaze
Member
I've dreamt and thought about writing an novel or a novella for the longest time, but never really gotten my ass off the wagon and do it. I got an idea in my head that I think would work really well, but it also feels like it's an idea I would like to realize when I actually have written something else so I'm more experienced. I don't wanna spend my best idea right away if you know what I mean.
Is an idea enough to write something or do I need to make more of a storyline?
Is an idea enough to write something or do I need to make more of a storyline?
An idea alone won't get you very far on its own merits.
Sniper McBlaze
Member
So you can't go with the flow? Like start writing and see where it takes you?
Me personally? Not really, not for anything more than a couple thousand words in length.
Some people think writers divide into two types: planners and pantsers. The theory goes that planners plan out exactly where their novel is going with outlines and then follow the outline. Pantsers go by the seat of their pants, starting with a character in a situation and then seeing where the hell it leads them.
In reality, there's probably more of a spectrum. Some people do extensive outlining down to the last detail. Some people do some outlining, but feel free to veer away from the plan if they feel so moved. Some people have a beginning and ending in mind, and then improvise the middle. Some people have no plan at all and just wing it all the way. etc
So yes, you can absolutely go with the flow and see how it goes. Maybe that's the type of writing that works for you. The only way to find out is to try it out.
As far as "wasting your best idea," I'd say just do it. New ideas will come more easily when you don't have this "best" one taking up a lot of space in your mind. You may find that it's not so great after all. You may find that it is great, but that your writing doesn't live up to what was in your head (I find this is typical even for ideas that aren't great
). But even if it's not perfect this go-round, you can always come back to it again later when you've improved.MidnightCowboy
Member
That's what I do. Granted I've only written short stories, it's probably harder to do with a novel.
Sniper McBlaze
Member
Some people think writers divide into two types: planners and pantsers. The theory goes that planners plan out exactly where their novel is going with outlines and then follow the outline. Pantsers go by the seat of their pants, starting with a character in a situation and then seeing where the hell it leads them.
In reality, there's probably more of a spectrum. Some people do extensive outlining down to the last detail. Some people do some outlining, but feel free to veer away from the plan if they feel so moved. Some people have a beginning and ending in mind, and then improvise the middle. Some people have no plan at all and just wing it all the way. etc
So yes, you can absolutely go with the flow and see how it goes. Maybe that's the type of writing that works for you. The only way to find out is to try it out.
As far as "wasting your best idea," I'd say just do it. New ideas will come more easily when you don't have this "best" one taking up a lot of space in your mind. You may find that it's not so great after all. You may find that it is great, but that your writing doesn't live up to what was in your head (I find this is typical even for ideas that aren't great
Great post. I always saw writing a novel as this impossible dream until I read King's book on it and it seems like he's a guy just going with the flow.
I'll start my novel soon I guess. I have an outline of what I want to do with a beginning and an end.
I'm so sorry to hear that. Hope things change for the better as soon as possible.
Writing jobs are harder to come by than IT jobs so I'd realistically put in a time scale of about six months before trying again for IT work. Once you are employed you can always look for a career change then.
I know if I was looking for a writer, some gaffers would be higher than people I know in real life. Including my self.
First novels are usually woeful. Unless you put in a lot of work. Or you are a genius. Or lucky. A lucky genius's first piece of work is gonna be good. So please do use your very best idea to improve your chances.
That's me right there.
H.Protagonist
[-_-]/
It doesn't have to be a very strict outline. Even the most basic of frameworks will help you stay on track in terms of the overall story. Then you can let the characters swim however they want, as long as you get from A to B.
Or, if you wanted to go further and outline some plot points and goals as well, you could fill out of these babies. It's simplistic, and there are many different ways to plot your story, but this one is the most basic (and tried and true).
My own super raw outline example from before (with bits whited out/changed):
MidnightCowboy
Member
Are you super strict about it or do you leave room for changes/improvisation? I couldn't imagine writing everything based on an outline. As a guide, sure, but sometimes I have ideas that I hadn't even thought of until I start writing.
I make tons and tons changes as I work on it for months, in fact, they often turn out different from what I originally put down to try to improve it to make the writing easier in the long run.
I'm even doing an outline for next year's novel for Nano and already redid it from scratch recently, lol.
You're always going to have ideas along the way to improve things, but I find that an outline makes it a lot easier to not lose track of where you're going. Knowing where you're going also helps you set things up in the first part of the story which can be paid off later.
A great example of this back-to-front writing style is the screenplay for the first Back to the Future. Every single scene early in the movie is used to add a piece to the series of pay-offs in the second half. It's also a great example of re-writes when better ideas come along. The original screenplay had a refrigerator as the time machine and the final scene was to be at a nuclear test range. I think most would agree that the car and lightning storm make for a more relatable story, so the re-writes were a big positive for the final product.
One of the problems of this writing style is that things can become very formulaic and predictable. You can read some stories written this way and know pretty much exactly what will happen later based on the early exposition.
Seat-of-the-pants writing, on the other hand can lead to a whole lot of unintentional red herrings and lack of overall cohesion. This style certainly suits some stories and writing styles, such as a road trip story about a series of encounters with eccentric characters, so it's not necessarily a bad thing. It's really up to the individual to decide what will work best for the narrative they have in mind.
toddhunter
Member
nvm.
Sniper McBlaze
Member
It doesn't have to be a very strict outline. Even the most basic of frameworks will help you stay on track in terms of the overall story. Then you can let the characters swim however they want, as long as you get from A to B.
Or, if you wanted to go further and outline some plot points and goals as well, you could fill out of these babies. It's simplistic, and there are many different ways to plot your story, but this one is the most basic (and tried and true).
My own super raw outline example from before (with bits whited out/changed):
Thanks! This is really helpful!
cosmicblizzard
Banned
Question for you guys. What's your opinion on novels that are very fight-scene heavy?
I ask because the only beta-reader that's actually started my second book isn't too crazy about it and says it would be better suited to a visual medium and doesn't flow very well because of all the fights. Now this guy is by no means my target audience (he's like 65 and reads mostly romance), but he also really liked my first novel and gave some super helpful feedback.
It got me wondering if I shouldn't have placed such a big focus on fights and that I fucked up massively by spending countless hours on it. But then I think of other stuff that's fight-scene heavy like Mistborn and a bunch of YA stuff and I think it's fine; it's just not the kind of thing this guy is into. I'd really like to believe the latter since I do want to turn it into a series, but the thought that I wasted my time is really getting to me.
What do you guys think?
I ask because the only beta-reader that's actually started my second book isn't too crazy about it and says it would be better suited to a visual medium and doesn't flow very well because of all the fights. Now this guy is by no means my target audience (he's like 65 and reads mostly romance), but he also really liked my first novel and gave some super helpful feedback.
It got me wondering if I shouldn't have placed such a big focus on fights and that I fucked up massively by spending countless hours on it. But then I think of other stuff that's fight-scene heavy like Mistborn and a bunch of YA stuff and I think it's fine; it's just not the kind of thing this guy is into. I'd really like to believe the latter since I do want to turn it into a series, but the thought that I wasted my time is really getting to me.
What do you guys think?
Well, I vaguely remember you saying your book was inspired by shonen manga, right? Seems like a lot of fight scenes would kind of be a requirement.
It's certainly possible it doesn't flow well, but that's not necessarily a matter of having too many fight scenes. It might mean there's not enough of a break between some scenes, it might mean the scenes don't feel motivated or feel samey. Hard to tell with a beta reader. You could ask them to be more specific on where exactly they are when things are feeling like they don't flow well.
It's certainly possible it doesn't flow well, but that's not necessarily a matter of having too many fight scenes. It might mean there's not enough of a break between some scenes, it might mean the scenes don't feel motivated or feel samey. Hard to tell with a beta reader. You could ask them to be more specific on where exactly they are when things are feeling like they don't flow well.
cosmicblizzard
Banned
Good idea. I'll get more information and also hear what the other beta readers have to say when they finally start it. I'll also need to learn how to not get depressed over criticism like this and take it to heart.
Thanks Cyan.
Thanks Cyan.
phillipgessert
Member
Sometimes people that try to help get very prescriptive by accident, and start trying to give you what they feel is the solution (cut back on fight scenes) rather than giving you the problem (I'm having a hard time keeping up).
Nailed it. You want your beta readers to let you know how they feel in certain parts of the book, not what they think you ought to do to fix it.
H.Protagonist
[-_-]/
Sure thing. Good luck!
Cyan and Adol already covered it, but if you're still worried, have you tried doing a pinpoint graph of how many fights you really do have and how many pages go between each one (cool down/lead up to next fight)? Sometimes seeing it visually can help you get a better idea if it is overloaded, or give you peace of mind that it's not.
cosmicblizzard
Banned
No graph, but I made note of it all on the first proofread. In my opinion, the character development, world building and lead up to the next fight between each one is perfectly fine. I cut a few fights down that I could tell were dragging and added some more cool down after one, but outside that, I didn't see much to change.
Once I get more opinions, I'll know where to go with all of this. Was planning on starting the sequel within a few days, but it seems like I'll need to wait a bit longer.
Without having read the work in question, I can say that it doesn't sound like something that would appeal to me personally, but it's not necessarily invalid. It's possible that the previous work you showed this person was more in his wheelhouse, but this one isn't. Just because two things are from the same author doesn't mean there is a 100% overlap in audience. You missed that guy this time, and that may be fine. Show it to some more people and continue to get opinions.
As I go deeper with visual mediums, I can't but help to think that they have many advantage at presenting subtlety. You can hint characters traits or their values by showing subtle, different behaviors, either on the scene or in the background. So, how do you does the same with written medium such as novel? When you put a detail that have to be important later on (Chekhov;s Gun), surely reader will notice and that is for is not very subtle. Or is it? What do you think guys? Do you have your own opinion on subtlety in written fiction?
H.Protagonist
[-_-]/
Just wanted to drop this here for anyone who wants to try their hand at submitting work to a publisher/mag.
http://sparklermonthly.com/about/submissions/
This is my pub (Chromatic) and their online magazine Sparkler. They've just opened submissions again for prose shorts (1-3 chapters). Their general audience might not be quite what most people here are writing for (from what I've seen), but this could also be a chance to try your hand at something you've never attempted before. Their general policy is just to put out entertaining and diverse stories (especially female gaze focused ones), so I think it's an open opportunity for anyone, really. At any rate, this is what they're about and they're pretty great to work with, so I'd say give it a go if anyone's interested.
Sounds like you have it in hand then. Have you heard any more feedback from others on it?
Good luck, D~ I've found it helpful in the past, so I hope it serves you well.
I've only had one coffee, so I'll have to approach this later when my brain wakes up, but my feeling is that writing can have as many subtle notes as visual arts. You just have to approach it from different angle.
http://sparklermonthly.com/about/submissions/
This is my pub (Chromatic) and their online magazine Sparkler. They've just opened submissions again for prose shorts (1-3 chapters). Their general audience might not be quite what most people here are writing for (from what I've seen), but this could also be a chance to try your hand at something you've never attempted before. Their general policy is just to put out entertaining and diverse stories (especially female gaze focused ones), so I think it's an open opportunity for anyone, really. At any rate, this is what they're about and they're pretty great to work with, so I'd say give it a go if anyone's interested.
Sounds like you have it in hand then. Have you heard any more feedback from others on it?
Good luck, D~ I've found it helpful in the past, so I hope it serves you well.
I've only had one coffee, so I'll have to approach this later when my brain wakes up, but my feeling is that writing can have as many subtle notes as visual arts. You just have to approach it from different angle.
cosmicblizzard
Banned
After getting a rush of inspiration from a certain visual novel coupled with (albeit to a MUCH lesser extent) the poor reception from the guy mentioned in my recent posts, I've decided to take a break from the series I had planned and start on something closer to my first novel.
Already have most of the plot and character names planned out. Oddly enough, trying to come up with a title that isn't already taken is what's bugging me right now. Might actually decide on one after I start writing it. If all goes according to plan, it should only take 5-6 months instead of 14 like the recent novel. After that, I'll come back to the series I was doing.
I just know that other people have started it and that the beginning is good. At the very least that's nice to hear.
Already have most of the plot and character names planned out. Oddly enough, trying to come up with a title that isn't already taken is what's bugging me right now. Might actually decide on one after I start writing it. If all goes according to plan, it should only take 5-6 months instead of 14 like the recent novel. After that, I'll come back to the series I was doing.
I just know that other people have started it and that the beginning is good. At the very least that's nice to hear.
RoyaleDuke
Banned
So, I'm making progress slowly but surely on my novel which I've posted a chapter or two in this thread waaaay back.
Fighting through all of my life stress and issues and trying to get this done is becoming a herculean task, at least it's roughly half done.
I just wish I could find it in myself to get over my fears and finish this.
Fighting through all of my life stress and issues and trying to get this done is becoming a herculean task, at least it's roughly half done.
I just wish I could find it in myself to get over my fears and finish this.
OsirisBlack
Banned
I find it is generally easier for me to write the ending of a story first. That way I always know where the characters are supposed to end up.
AngmarsKing701
Member
Fight through, brother!
Lord Thrappleper The 49th
Member
Christ. I really want to write. I love it. I really do. Started writing like 4-5 years ago, when I was in college I think. Only problem is I get stuck with it, which is my problem to adress I know. Like some months I go on a writing spree, and then don't do anything for the same time.
Actually finished a 240,000 word novel last year, and have spent 12 months editing it. Still think it's not ready. Probably never will be. But its good to know others have the same dilemma.
Actually finished a 240,000 word novel last year, and have spent 12 months editing it. Still think it's not ready. Probably never will be. But its good to know others have the same dilemma.
fredrancour
Member
You may learn more at this point by putting that manuscript on the back-burner and starting something new.one thing that's helped me write more isacknowledging that nearly all early novels an author produces are crap, and that ideas are cheap.
Lord Thrappleper The 49th
Member
Oh trust me, this is my most recent idea, one that came after about a dozen ideas. It took me 6 months to write it all, which makes it like a year and a half old. I'm very proud of it. Beta readers fucking loved it, wanted more, encouraged me to publish/make a sequal. But I don't want to release anything unless I know it's as good as it can possibly be. No if ever I were to make an actual novel to be published. This would be it.
I do get what your saying though, realised it several years ago. Had this one story that I loved to bits, but I realised that it could never work. So I curtailed it. Sad day. =(
fredrancour
Member
Hmmm well maybe an early draft of a secondary manuscript could still be a nice break if revisions stall out completely and you still don't feel ready to self-publish this one or start shoppng it around.
AngmarsKing701
Member
Welcome!
Welcome to the fold!
Reading this thread has made me afraid of ever showing my writing to another living soul.
To put it another way, I generally know bad writing when I see it, but I don't have any such sense regarding my own work. I write how I write, as best as I know how, but I think if I were to put it out there, only to discover it's so-bad-it's-awful... well, I don't want to do that. Not until I know it's worth something.
How do you know when your writing isn't shit?
To put it another way, I generally know bad writing when I see it, but I don't have any such sense regarding my own work. I write how I write, as best as I know how, but I think if I were to put it out there, only to discover it's so-bad-it's-awful... well, I don't want to do that. Not until I know it's worth something.
How do you know when your writing isn't shit?
Post in Creative Writing Challenge threads, and we will tell you.
Seriously though, I'm kind of in the same boat, I have grave difficulties evaluating anything I write since it's impossible to be objective, and I usually just default to hating everything I write because it's never as good as I aspire to be.
But "practice makes perfect" is a thing. I've only been writing "for real" for less than two years, and I can see notable improvement even today from where I started out.
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