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There is no Technical Reason for No PS1/2 BC on PS4
- Thread starter Occam
- Start date
Thats probably why Avatars you bought on ps3 are not accessable on the ps4 and you have to buy the same avatar again on ps4 to use them, unless you have a ps3.
Jawbreaker
Member
This is always a good rule of thumb.
potatohead
Member
+1
Though it would've been nice to allow B/C discs on PS4 oh well.
Very true.
There is a possible technical limitation, the actual competency of their PS4 software emulator, and the success rate and performance of software emulation in general.
Even with the source code available, it does take a decent CPU to get PS2 games running on PC, and PS4 has a CPU that is a step below even an i3.
This is probably why their PS2 classics library was so weak after they took out hardware emulation on PS3, just running the games was an issue.
And now we're talking about games with much higher base res and FPS than the base games.
But that has nothing to do with honoring digital licenses for games you already bought from the ecosystem, so i hope that they do have something in mind for legacy owners.
Even with the source code available, it does take a decent CPU to get PS2 games running on PC, and PS4 has a CPU that is a step below even an i3.
This is probably why their PS2 classics library was so weak after they took out hardware emulation on PS3, just running the games was an issue.
And now we're talking about games with much higher base res and FPS than the base games.
But that has nothing to do with honoring digital licenses for games you already bought from the ecosystem, so i hope that they do have something in mind for legacy owners.
Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
Do you honestly think its going to be that profitable? Really?
BC is a niche thing, and BC from 2 generations prior is a niche of a niche.
itsbenoclock
Member
No PS2 classics, no PS1 classics... awful.
PCSX2 has not had much active development for a while from what I understand, and doesn't even have a native emulated BIOS like PPSSPP or Dolphin. Last I checked it was only split into three threads, where the PS3 emulator on PS4 managed to split emulation tasks into nine(!) threads. Pretty much every significant chip on the system had a thread. It was using the SPUs for emulation, which is just plain nuts. With that kind of engineering, Sony should have no trouble making an emulator that, well, performs like the one on the PS4 apparently does. The PS4 emulator is already supporting games the PS3 couldn't, I think it's safe to say the compatibility is better.
Even if many games don't work, Microsoft is putting in way more effort per game and supporting them for free. I guess the old slogan "We're number two, so we try harder" still applies.
Sumio Mondo
Member
Screw paying 14.99 for every game. We know that Sony guys read NeoGAF, so here's a message to them: I am not paying your silly prices. Thank you.
Zephyrettes
Member
This is what I'm thinking because honestly, it's easy to jump to conclusions when we have yet to see the initial reveal, which should have been during PSX. There is always much to be said when a leak drops and everyone is quick to make assumptions.
It's been announced, and the official trailer that is out now says "PS2 Classics and PS2-formatted discs are incompatible with the PS4 system".
https://youtu.be/63dmlHOz6jQ?t=81
But knee-jerk outrage is, like, the one thing the internet excels at more than anything else
SuperEpicMan
Banned
I never understand this kinda reaction. 1) you bought the console without any indication or suggestion BC would become available, so Sony owe you jack shit. 2) you can still play the games on their original consoles. 3) it would be better for them to offer a digital version that would transfer over to future generations. 4) it would be like being salty over not being able to play a vhs in your blu ray player.
Of course it will be. Lol. They are not philanthropies. Disc based means no straight money for them.
Every "why x just can't do what I want" thread.Software codes itself and for free too.
Well they don't seem interested in making #3 happen.
I would have hoped digital PS1 and PS2 games would be that. But there are PS1 games the Vita is perfectly fine playing, but they won't transfer over due to licensing, same with some Vita games on the VitaTV.
If the PS3 ran digital PS2 classics just fine, there is no reason the PS4 couldn't run them.
I guess the PC is still the way to go if you want to play something out of your library in ten years on modern hardware.
Disaster Nebraska
Banned
BC is a courtesy -- a selling-point at best -- but not a requirement.
There's no technical reason for no GCN compatibility on Wii U. There's no technical reason for no DOS emulation on Xbox One.
There's no technical reason for no GCN compatibility on Wii U. There's no technical reason for no DOS emulation on Xbox One.
Hades Hotgun
Banned
Actually there is. The special mechanism involved in reading the mini GCN disc is not in Wii U's or I believe later model Wii's.
BC is an industry standard and whether or not this specific offering is particularly well received by the market will be what determines whether or not BC is a courtesy or something the market demands.
GCN disk support would require and change to the disk drive to support the smaller disks. Nintendo dropped that change from newer Wiis to cut costs. It would be possible to sell them digitally though.
DOS emulation on the Xbox One would be just fine, Rare Replay has a ZX Spectrum emulator in it. You'd just need to have someone want to release a DOS game on the Xbox One. It happened on the original Xbox. DOS versions of Doom 1 & 2 came with Doom 3, and Panzer Dragoon Orta, included a port of the PC version of Panzer Dragoon.
Supporting digital PS1 and PS2 games doesn't require any changes to hardware. And it would add value to a Playstation digital library. Right now I see no reason to get anything digital anymore if it's going to be stuck on a single generation without the ability to move forward. Cross-buy games are great, that they require a generous developer to give the new version to existing players.
Disaster Nebraska
Banned
Then why not digital? In either case, we can argue about whether something "technically" can run it all day long, but ultimately it's a courtesy feature. And it's a feature that not all game companies decide to include. It can raise the price of the console (as we saw with the PS3). It requires extra programming and dev time. And as far as anyone can tell, it doesn't really do much to get people from the old console converted over. Anecdotally, it did from PS1 to PS2, but it didn't help PS2 to PS3, Wii to Wii U, Xbox 360 to Xbox One, or DS to 3DS.
BC is absolutely not an industry standard, not by a longshot. Ratio of platforms with BC compared to those without it is 1:10 if not worse.
Commanche Raisin Toast
Member
i'm still waiting for the OP to give us all the technical documentation on how he/she knows with 100% certainty that there aren't any technical reasons it has to be done this way.
if you want to break it down to the nitty gritty and all...
i mean a "PS2 Classic" is defined as a PS2 game that is running as-is like it was originally but on PS3 via a download. on PS4 these aren't "PS2 Classics", they're enhanced and come with nearly all the benefits of a PS4 game. DS4 support, trophies, game sharing, remote play, streaming, screens/videos, etc. etc. and it was all done on an individual basis with the original creators.
if you want to break it down to the nitty gritty and all...
i mean a "PS2 Classic" is defined as a PS2 game that is running as-is like it was originally but on PS3 via a download. on PS4 these aren't "PS2 Classics", they're enhanced and come with nearly all the benefits of a PS4 game. DS4 support, trophies, game sharing, remote play, streaming, screens/videos, etc. etc. and it was all done on an individual basis with the original creators.
Disaster Nebraska
Banned
Until someone literally says "purchasing this copy of a legacy title will give it to you on future consoles" then I don't see why anyone would expect it. What we've gotten so far has been courtesy and the biggest irony is that -- despite people's complaints against Sony in this thread -- Sony has been leading the charge when it comes to cross-buy, backwards compatibility, and having 1 copy on multiple platforms. If I had a 2nd Vita linked to my account, I could move over every one of my digital Vita games from Free (pretty sure it's a 2-Vita limit on those) while still playing on the old system. I have numerous PS1 classics on PSP, PS3, and PS Vita and I only paid once.
I mean, cmon folks. I understand that it'd be nice but be grateful for what you've gotten.
31GhostsIV
Banned
They fixed this in a very recent update (and kept it pretty quiet). All of my PS3 avatars are now available directly from the PS4. Only took them two years, of course.
Trophies are the only item in that list which requires any per game work. Everything else would still work just fine with a generic emulator.
The PS1 emulator on the PS3 support remote play to the PSP/Vita of both digital and disk games. There isn't a reason why any of the built-in features of the PS4 that work on all games wouldn't work with a standard emulator. In fact developers have to put in extra code to disable share play, and streaming of music or specific scenes in a game.
Hades Hotgun
Banned
You said BC, nothing about offering digital versions of GCN games on Wii U. The facts did not match your point of view, that is no fault of the facts.
As far as industry standard goes...
The PC, XB1, Wii U, 3DS, and Vita all have some form of backward compatibility.
From the previous generation, the PC, Wii, PS3, 360, and DS all had it.
So yes, it is absolutely an industry standard and has been since last gen. Your 1:10 claim is not only fabricated but utterly absurd. In fact, it is almost the exact inverse.
Digital PS1 games running on both the PSP and PS3, and then also working on the Vita made people hopeful that when Sony announced PS1 and PS2 backwards compatiblity on the PS4, when the content they already spent money on would still work.
There is a limit of three PSP/Vita/VitaTVs on a single account. You could have all your games on three separate Vitas and play an ADHOC multiplayer games together on all of them.
The PS4 and Xbox One one both allow a single home console, but you can sign into another console and play the same game on both, so this isn't something unique.
If you think that generous on the PC Steam, Origin, Uplay. You can install the games to as many machines as you want. And there is support for automatic save syncing in newer games. Steam even has the ability to share your game library with "family".
somecrazymember
Banned
So the PS4 released 2 years ago toplay cool PS4 games with no intention or promess of doing anything pS2 related. Now they are remastering some PS2 games and people are complaining no PS2 BC. 'F U arrogant Sony is back' ...
soul creator
Member
There's no technical reason for discs to have to be inserted on PS4/XB1 after they've been fully installed
Hades Hotgun
Banned
Actually, before the release of the system Shu said that PS1 and PS2 games could be available through emulation but they had nothing to announce at that time. Also, they have referred to PS1/PS2 classics support in online surveys. So they clearly showed an intention, but gave no hint as to this kind of implementation.
Commanche Raisin Toast
Member
receipts.gif
the better way to go about this would be to simply just say "i don't know why Sony is doing it this way but i don't like it" but people have to blow the hyperbole load and chest beat about something they're upset with. it just seems really silly for people to act completely definitive about something they have very little understanding of.
for all we know the games just run better when they do it this way as opposed to running a dedicated emulator app and loading the disc data directly through it. they could have had it all working like that but just couldn't get the performance and features all working smoothly and opted to do it a different way that required each individual title to be touched.
we don't know. come on guys.
GreyOcelot
Member
my god....stahp
They aren't widescreen, just upresed which is plenty easy to do
charlequin
Banned
And now they've switched (at least on this topic) to being far and away the most regressive of the three platform holders for what would have to be short-sighted reasons. Literally every system on the market -- all of the last generation and other current generation systems -- has a more generous and friendly implementation of backwards-compatibility than the PS4, which has none.
Emulation isn't magical, it's pretty easy for people to have enough technical knowledge to make reasonable judgments about this topic.
Kagoshima_Luke
Gold Member
Sony can't even implement paid name changes. This is not a company you trust to handle crazy backwards compatibility hi-jinks like MS pulled off. I mean, I love my PS4, but let's be honest with ourselves...
Not a playable or currently supported one. It's sort of sad really, seems like almost every other past console has a working emulator. Even 360, PS3, 3DS and Wii U are ahead of OG Xbox for emulation.
The point here is that Sony isn't recompiling those games to run at a higher resolution. They are using an emulator. Allowing this already existing emulator to play PS2 Classics from PS3 and original PS2 discs (possibly after having the emulator create an ISO first, storing it on PS4 and using the disc only for verification) would require little additional effort, and it would be the right thing to do.
Ingueferroque
Banned
If it is little effort to you, perhaps you should apply for a position at Sony?
Oh, oh. Can I have a job at Sony too? I'll do QA for the Crash Bandicoot games.
He's making fun of someone Lmfao
So it's a topic of morality now?
A lot of people seem to be forgetting publishing and licesning issues especially with sound tracks. That stuff can be too much of a hassle and not worth the cost in the long term for them.
Then, there is the risk of running pirated discs that they might just not want to deal with.
Although I do want PS1 classics to be up eventually, so hopefully we get a clear answer on this.
Edit: Err oops. Didn't realize that I just had this tab open for so long.
Then, there is the risk of running pirated discs that they might just not want to deal with.
Although I do want PS1 classics to be up eventually, so hopefully we get a clear answer on this.
Edit: Err oops. Didn't realize that I just had this tab open for so long.