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Things you DON'T like about GTA IV
- Thread starter Zombie James
- Start date
crimsonheadGCN
Banned
So far this is my list of things that I don't like about GTA IV:
- 1-2 second pauses when someone joins an online game after it has begun.
- 2 minute load times when starting up the game.
- Having to load into the single player game in order to choose what multiplayer game want to play.
- Driving isn't as a fun as previous games.
- Niko controls like a tank when walking.
- Can't join any multiplayer games sometimes unless I restart the 360.
- 1-2 second pauses when someone joins an online game after it has begun.
- 2 minute load times when starting up the game.
- Having to load into the single player game in order to choose what multiplayer game want to play.
- Driving isn't as a fun as previous games.
- Niko controls like a tank when walking.
- Can't join any multiplayer games sometimes unless I restart the 360.
Were all of the missions in the GTA games this "scripted"? Cars despawning where you left them, traffic out to get you, etc etc? Maybe it's because this is really the first time I gave a shit about missions in a GTA, but for a sandbox game, they take a lot of control out of your hands with these missions. =/ (I'm up to the 2nd Island missions now).
GameGamer said:
I'm guessing the shootouts in Gun are more likely to go into the next Tony Hawk than GTA...
EDIT: BTW, I don't know that the game brings a ton to the table that wasn't in the earlier GTA games.
EDIT 2: Two minute loading is an overstatement. I'm going to have to sit and time it now.
?crimsonheadGCN said:
2 minute loading, is standard in all the games I have. This one skips the obvious START GAME and gets right to the point... There is no further loading after that.
In any MP, yes you have to load the game regardless. What difference does it make whether you enter the options in a pregame menu? It takes the same amount of time, it's just a different approach.
First off, I have never played a GTA game... never touched the game in demo form, at a store... ever...
I bought it on Day 1 for X-Box 360 and finally loaded it last night...
DO NOT LIKE... it feels so sluggish... he is worse than a tank...
The city is alive, that is what I kept reading... and when I interact with people, all they do is get mad... why can I not talk to people?
I was expecting something like KOTOR... and I never finshed that game... but I thought you were going to have conversations with all people in the game.
Maybe I was expecting too much or just did not know the game history.
The fighting is terrible... punch, punch, combo... repeat...
It is very boring to me... and I have not started one mission...
I will try a little more, but it made me feel nauseous. I am too old for this open-ended sandbox stuff. Give me a linear path to follow and I am happy ALA Ninja Gaiden, DMC...
I bought it on Day 1 for X-Box 360 and finally loaded it last night...
DO NOT LIKE... it feels so sluggish... he is worse than a tank...
The city is alive, that is what I kept reading... and when I interact with people, all they do is get mad... why can I not talk to people?
I was expecting something like KOTOR... and I never finshed that game... but I thought you were going to have conversations with all people in the game.
Maybe I was expecting too much or just did not know the game history.
The fighting is terrible... punch, punch, combo... repeat...
It is very boring to me... and I have not started one mission...
I will try a little more, but it made me feel nauseous. I am too old for this open-ended sandbox stuff. Give me a linear path to follow and I am happy ALA Ninja Gaiden, DMC...
PepsimanVsJoe
Member
That issue still sticks out in my mind the most.
Missions like the one in GTA3 where you have to take out that mob boss before he reaches his home and there were tons of ways to go about it were so simple yet so incredibly effective(personally I blocked off the entrance to his home with cars and lobbed grenades over the wall). Or the mission in Vice City where you have to kill that guy in the Golf Course(some people managed to get over the wall and keep their guns, I just ran him into a lake with a golf cart)
Then with the release of Crackdown you had absolute freedom for taking out bosses. I don't understand how a developer who pretty much created the sandbox genre as we know it has taken such a step back when it comes to mission design.
And damned if it isn't shitty because quite a bit of effort was put into those scripted missions and I think it was all a big waste. Sure some of them are pretty cool to see but none of them are particularly entertaining and they definitely don't show off some creative game design.
Maybe R* wanted to do GTA: The action game? Well that'd be nice except action games are usually a shit-ton more polished.
Missions like the one in GTA3 where you have to take out that mob boss before he reaches his home and there were tons of ways to go about it were so simple yet so incredibly effective(personally I blocked off the entrance to his home with cars and lobbed grenades over the wall). Or the mission in Vice City where you have to kill that guy in the Golf Course(some people managed to get over the wall and keep their guns, I just ran him into a lake with a golf cart)
Then with the release of Crackdown you had absolute freedom for taking out bosses. I don't understand how a developer who pretty much created the sandbox genre as we know it has taken such a step back when it comes to mission design.
And damned if it isn't shitty because quite a bit of effort was put into those scripted missions and I think it was all a big waste. Sure some of them are pretty cool to see but none of them are particularly entertaining and they definitely don't show off some creative game design.
Maybe R* wanted to do GTA: The action game? Well that'd be nice except action games are usually a shit-ton more polished.
Stoney Mason
Banned
BojTrek said:
The bolded sounds like the case. Not every game is for everybody.
evilromero
Member
Do people on the street still randomly shout stuff? I always thought that was something they needed to revise since it was cartoonish and silly.
Hearing all these complaints about the missions makes me feel like I should be going through the game with a guide/FAQ in hand, just so I know what missions are scripted and which ones aren't. It's really annoying to die/fail a mission because you were trying to take out an NPC that cannot be killed until some arbitrary switch goes off.
Stoney Mason said:
I agree that is why I was leary buying it... and probably why I never bought a previous GTA title...
I am just not into the whole walk around thing... it just seems boring to me...
Like I said, I will try a few of the mission based things and see if my feelings change...
Stoney Mason
Banned
border said:
You don't need a FAQ or a guide. It's fairly simple. Chase missions have two parts in GTA 4. A pre-scripted portion of the chase part and then a non-scripted portion of the chase part after that. It's different design. I can see why people would like it to be pure chases like the old ones as a preference choice but that wasn't their design call this time around.
Stoney Mason
Banned
BojTrek said:
There's nothing wrong with that. People often get caught up in the hype of a game event and buy things that are out of genres they generally like. FF 7 being the perfect textbook example. The reason to buy a GTA game is generally because you like the story, and you like the immersiveness of driving and fighting in a simulated semi realistic world.
ILOVEASIANS
Member
Lack of check points in missions is pretty much my only gripe.
I hate having to drive 5 minutes at the start of a mission repeatedly, just because I made some mistake on my prior attempt. Would be a lot more enjoyable if when you retried a mission, you started closer to where you left off/messed up.
I hate having to drive 5 minutes at the start of a mission repeatedly, just because I made some mistake on my prior attempt. Would be a lot more enjoyable if when you retried a mission, you started closer to where you left off/messed up.
PrivateWHudson
Member
I'm at about 30% or so right now, and I still feel like I'm doing tutorial missions. Each mission seems to add an element that I'll never really find useful. "you need a 4 door car for this mission"..."<-L-> to shimmy along the ledge". Just let me get to the killing already.
This probably goes hand in hand with the complaints about in mission check points, and scripted missions. They keep making me do crap over and over if I fail a mission, and because there is so little freedom on how to attack a mission, I know the stuff I'm doing won't open up my options.
This probably goes hand in hand with the complaints about in mission check points, and scripted missions. They keep making me do crap over and over if I fail a mission, and because there is so little freedom on how to attack a mission, I know the stuff I'm doing won't open up my options.
Hcoregamer00
The 'H' stands for hentai.
I love the game, my problem is the uneven difficulty with some missions.
The missions would be extremely easy then BAM, you have a hard mission. When you get a string of hard missions, the game gets easy again.
I would also bitch about how it doesn't include all the cool additions of San Andreas, but that is inappropriate in this thread.
The missions would be extremely easy then BAM, you have a hard mission. When you get a string of hard missions, the game gets easy again.
I would also bitch about how it doesn't include all the cool additions of San Andreas, but that is inappropriate in this thread.
Stoney Mason
Banned
PrivateWHudson said:
It's a complex game with a lot of controls. Without reminders on how to do certain things imo the average or more casual gamer would be lost. You still have tons of people asking both in this thread and the official thread how you do certain things like get in a cab or how you roll when in combat even though the game tries to hold your hand and teach you a lot of the basics at different points. The early portion of the game can be viewed as an extended tutorial that slowly introduces the elements of the game since it's a new generation of GTA and likely a new generation of players. That doesn't excuse the complaint about a better checkpoint system however which is a legit gripe.
I'm pretty sure the reason R* decided to do more scripted missions was to make the game feel more cinematic. There is still a variety of things that can happen. Last night while I was being chased by the cops with Playboy X in the passenger seat, I accidently went off the road, and ended up landing on the subway tracks. I drove through the subway tunnels dodging trains as I made my escape. Pretty crazy.
PepsimanVsJoe
Member
ILOVEASIANS said:
Unless I had to use my own car to reach a destination I always called a taxi. Get a taxi, smack the skip button, and there you are. Between that and the autosave after every mission I never spent a dime in the hospital.
rhino4evr said:
That's all well and good except things like this tend to happen after the objective has been completed(kill this guy, grab this stuff, etc). I wouldn't really call it part of the mission since by the time the cops show up the mission is pretty much "over".
PepsimanVsJoe said:
I had an issue on a certain mission, where I had to follow someone without being seen. Which resulted in 5 minutes of driving REALLY slow. I failed this mission 3 times, by the fourth time I was really tired of that drive.
Thankfully, I've only failed a few missions multiple times, the game isn't all that difficult once you get a handle on the complex control scheme.
PrivateWHudson
Member
Stoney Mason said:
True, but will shimming across a ledge ever help me get the drop on some guy that is scripted to not die until the logs fall off of the trailer during a high speed chase? The complexity without payoff IS what I consider the problem. It's one of the reasons I didn't like Army of Two. Making you do stuff just because.
Stoney Mason
Banned
rhino4evr said:
The better solution imo would have been to have a better mix of the pure random chase missions versus the 1/2 and half chase missions. I do like some of the pre-scriped elements and some of them are very cool and amazing although I understand the appeal of pure scripted missions that are soely dependent on quick reactions and where you have an ability if you are good enough to knock out the enemy fairly quickly. I'm sure they will revisit that in future iterations of the game.
Personally I miss some of the light gun missions that were pre-scripted where the driving was handled for you and all you had to do was shoot. I thinking of the T2 inspired chased in San Andreas. Every iteration can't have everything though and sometimes people make design calls in the name of focusing a game and when they hear the feedback they respond accordingly so I can live with the design call and hopefully the ratio gets re-adjusted in the next one.
funkmastergeneral
Banned
Jirotrom said:
I like to drive places personally, warping by taxi is unrealistic and boring
Except I just recently finished a mission ("Search and Delete" for Brucie) that didn't have any scripted section (at least it didn't seem like it). You chase the guy out of his apartment and then just run him down in a police car. There's no cutscene or anything to indicate when he becomes kill-able.Stoney Mason said:
I'd also like to point out that I had the pedal to the metal for the entire mission and couldn't catch up to the guy unless he got into traffic trouble -- the people claiming that "all you have to do is drive at 75% speed" seem a bit crazy. Even early in the game felons are capable of matching or exceeding your maximum speed, and conservative driving isn't going to cut it.
All the folks complaining about the driving, just keep at it. I think you guys are just too used to the previous GTAs more arcady model. You'll find there is so much fun to be had throwing a car around a corner and actually feeling like your controling something with some actual weight to it. Learn to brake before you corner and go easy on the gas coming out.
Stoney Mason
Banned
PrivateWHudson said:
I think the bolded part is an inaccurate comparison unless I mis-understand you. There are missions where you have to shimmy across a ledge as part of a mission to get somewhere. So it is a legit part of the game that does have a payoff in certain missions. Not chase missions though because it really wouldn't have anything to do with that portion
Yeah I avoided it at first because I assumed it was going to end up being expensive to do this. But as of 11% through the game its all I've done. I always buy every weapon and ammo I can after every mission, and restock all my nades at $1,000 a pop and I still have over $300,000. Money is pointless.Jirotrom said:
Stoney Mason
Banned
Topher said:
There is some quirkness with the driving model imo that remains but after learning how it operates the driving complaints are way over-stated by a lot of people imo. Not to mention just get a good car and those pretty much handle perfectly.
Stoney Mason
Banned
border said:
I didn't do that many Brucie missions so it's tough for me to remember that one specifically. But as a general rule if a guy is on foot and doesn't get in a car it will not have a pre-scripted portion to it. By chase missions I mean car chase missions versus human chase missions. I haven't done every mission in the game so clearly there may be some that break my rules or extend them but I never had a problem that I can remember using my guide.
In the pre-scripted portion of the chase missions there isn't even really a need to drive like a mad man. The only real benefit is that you are closer to him when the pre-scripted portion ends. It is easier imo to just drive relatively quicky and dodge the obstacles so you don't get sidetracked and lose him and then close on him in the non-scripted second portion of the chase.
funkmastergeneral
Banned
border said:
that mission is certainly scripted. Near the airport a truck swerves from lane to lane and a bunch of barrels fall out of it every time. Then on the bridge a truck has a bunch of logs fall out onto the highway. Once your past that bridge though you can take him out easily. (If I'm thinking of the right mission...)
PrivateWHudson
Member
Stoney Mason said:
I may not be stating it as clearly as I want, but it's because I don't want to spoiler tag in a complaints thread, and don't want to be spoiled myself. So far, any time I've had to shimmy, it's because R* saw fit to put in a barrier that I had to overcome to get the story to progress. I haven't seen a part where learning yet another control would make finishing a mission easier for me (isn't that the point of learning something new) and would hinder someone who didn't learn this new skill.
I'm just using this as an example, but so far, I could say the same about melee combat. The only time I used it was at the
Basketball Court
...when ready, use LB to stand up and shoot the guy crap...
If I could shimmy around the top of a building, to get the jump on someone before they got into their car, THAT would be worth learning yet another control.
Jugendstil
Member
So after spending a ton of time with the game this weekend clearing out half of the main story missions, the one sore point for me is with the controls.
The controls are functional, and I've only had trouble with a couple of missions, but functional ain't good enough IMO. I actually don't have any issues with the driving per se, but the on foot controls are archaic and needlessly complicated. Every button has like 2 or 3 functions, it's ridiculous. There is no excuse for running not being mapped to the analog. Having to press a button to climb a ladder is stupid too. It feels like I'm playing a game from 1998. It's annoying that the same problems that have existed since the first 3D GTA are still popping up with this one. Graphical issues don't bother me at all, but the lack of refinement to the controls is a big disappointment. The cover system seems like a sort of stop gap solution in lieu of actually updating or refining the game play.
I feel like if I went back and looked at a list of the issues I had with San Andreas, a big portion of them would carry over to GTA4.
Still loving the game, but it'd be nice to see an overhaul to the series instead of what amounts to an upgrade.
The controls are functional, and I've only had trouble with a couple of missions, but functional ain't good enough IMO. I actually don't have any issues with the driving per se, but the on foot controls are archaic and needlessly complicated. Every button has like 2 or 3 functions, it's ridiculous. There is no excuse for running not being mapped to the analog. Having to press a button to climb a ladder is stupid too. It feels like I'm playing a game from 1998. It's annoying that the same problems that have existed since the first 3D GTA are still popping up with this one. Graphical issues don't bother me at all, but the lack of refinement to the controls is a big disappointment. The cover system seems like a sort of stop gap solution in lieu of actually updating or refining the game play.
I feel like if I went back and looked at a list of the issues I had with San Andreas, a big portion of them would carry over to GTA4.
Still loving the game, but it'd be nice to see an overhaul to the series instead of what amounts to an upgrade.
What? He doesn't say anything of the sort, and if you think he does, I'm pretty sure you missed the whole moral of the story. The tagline is "this time things will be different," and that's also why Niko leaves Europe. As the story progresses, though, he starts to realize that everywhere has the same bullshit and people are bastards no matter where they were born.Stoney Mason said:
He most certainly does not say or imply that America is "much better" than former Yugoslavia, in fact, he says the exact opposite. That America is "just like the old country." (If you don't have subs on you might have missed that, I think that line may have been in serbian.)
Yeah, there are several missions that break your rules. It's just completely random if and when you get to shoot someone before they reach a destination, and I think the worst part about it is that the confusion could so easily have been cleared up in a matter of seconds.Stoney Mason said:
Simply just don't word the mission the description like this: "chase and kill person X." Just remove the "and kill" part in pre-scripted missions until you can actually kill the person you're chasing. Then tell us to kill them when we actually can. Problem solved.
Stoney Mason
Banned
PrivateWHudson said:
I see what you are saying now. That's a fair criticism of design then in the sense that if giving multiples ways of approaching a system you would want the flexibility to use the controls in more diverse manners. Fair enough. Reminds me of the Hitman games in a sense. GTA has always been less free in the sense of mission based play than that sort of design but I get where you are coming from.
Frame rate, blurry graphics, cars that move like a tank on ice, stiff player controls, awkward combat system, and uneven difficulty on the missions. Then again I'm not exactly a big GTA fan to begin with! It's a shame, this game does have some things I do like - great writing, the Electro Choc radio station, and a cool take on my home city, less of the contrivances that made San Andreas so annoying - but it's mainly the controls and blurry graphics that make it difficult for me to play.
Stoney Mason
Banned
aku:jiki said:
I remember a conversation (can't remember the character) where somebody is complaining about being poor and he basically says something to the effect of you Americans don't know what it's like to be poor. There are a few lines like that where he is trying to get across the concept I think that Americans have it better than they realize. I think that's the point of telling of some of the terrible atrocities he has been through in his country. Like the story about the children in his village or Roman's mother. I don't disagree that he thinks American is a dark place though. Which is why I said this.
Stoney Mason said:
Wow, that's all scripted? The barrels and the logs fallling off the semi-trucks were the first things about the game that really floored and impressed me as awesome, emergent events. To know that it's just scripted kind of kills that for me.funkmastergeneral said:
At any rate, you've helped illustrate my point -- how was I supposed to know that I can't kill my target until after the bridge? And when I finally get to the bridge, how is the game communicating to me that "Okay, now you can kill him"? There's no cutscene to break things up or let you know that something has changed. That's why I feel like I need a guide to tell me when it's time to do what (chase versus kill) -- because the game never really tells you what you're supposed to be doing.
Yeah, maybe there's some technical excuse as to why they couldn't put in a mid-mission checkpoint system -- but for all this scripted nonsense, it's ridiculous that they left the player to try and guess what to do and when they can do it.aku:jiki said:
border said:
I think a lot of the magic in the game is from events that happen in either a scripted or fairly common fashion that feel emergent or unique. The logs and barrels felt blatantly scripted to me, almost like an old arcade rail shooter, but I've had other events happen that felt unique and novel and then I'll look in the thread and find that they're actually quite common--and just like me everyone assumes they're not (these are common events, rather than scripted ones). That being said, there's still more than enough emergent gameplay or effectively emergent gameplay for me and I don't really mind some of the tightness imposed by the scripted parts.