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Thinking outside the XBox: $800 for empty container
- Thread starter sonicfan
- Start date
That's why I don't use eBay. Well, not really because of scams like this, these are obvious to anyone with a bit of internet savvy and eBay experience, it's just the whole place is like a fucking third world flea market these days. You've got sellers who think they're the King of England and have two pages worth of detailed rules you must follow to pay for a fucking DVD, it seems like 1/4th of the buyers never pay, so many auctions are misleading, it just seems like everyone is looking to get something over on you. Then behind it all you have the notoriously fucked up PayPal as the official bank! Fuck eBay. (Amazon Marketplace for the win, IMO.)
Particle Physicist
between a quark and a baryon
Tsubaki said:
nope. it is illegal. its called deceptive advertising. several cell phone companies are going to court in new york for doing something similar. they would advertise something and in the fine print you would see the real deal.. they purposefully tried to deceive people .. and that is illegal.
It's a deceptive practice. The purpose is to mislead by being vague. I highly doubt the ad said,"Selling only the X-box 360 box. System not included." And why would anyone sell an x-box 360 BOX WITH a game? Including the game only increases the evidence of the original party being dishonest and intending to give an impression of the system being included. Also, pricing the damned thing near what an xbox 360 would go for on ebay is another piece of evidence. Although the title said, "Selling the Xbox 360 box," all other actions engaged in by the seller basically gave the impression of including the system. People who engage in such antics disgust me.
PhatSaqs said:
Don't kid yourself.
I could start an auction right now with the title of:
"Xbox 360 Premium Box."
And a subject of this line only:
"You are biddong on the box only, there is no Xbox 360 inside,"
Yet the illiterati will still bid that shit up into the sky.
I know it, because it's happened.
"cheers to the mod who gave me this nonsensical tag"
chaostrophy
Member
Tsubaki said:
What about the probably thousands of people who did read the description and realized not to bid, but still had their time wasted by that greedy idiot?
Eel O'Brian
Member
Threads like these certainly help to expose the douchebag GAFers, that's for sure.
Guy LeDouche
Banned
360s have been sold that way too. One had a huge paragraph that said over and over "There is no system. There is only an empty box. If you think you are getting the actual system, you are stupid and cannot read..."kevm3 said:
Somebody bought it for alot of money and complained. People are just stupid.
sp0rsk said:
Because it's not explicit. Have all of you seen what these auctions look like?
Here's one from kotaku
ebay scam
When you intentionally try to mislead people from what they are actually getting that's fraud. It's called bait and switch.
And yes you can call the people that do bid stupid for not reading through the deception but as the article pointed out this was a desperate parent who probably doesn't know jack shit about video games but just wanted to get their kid a present. Mr. scamming jackass though ruined that and stole 800 bucks from them though and they didn't deserve it. Next time you see someone in public counting money in the open punch them in the face and take their money and say they deserved it for not being more perceptive.
Check out the next wave of "Xbox 360 box" scams...
Microsoft Xbox 360 Box WITH Xbox inside!! Not Empty Box
Can't be sure, but I'd say the only reason for that type of wording would be that the seller is including an old Xbox console inside the 360 box--NOT the Xbox 360 console.
Microsoft Xbox 360 Box WITH Xbox inside!! Not Empty Box
Can't be sure, but I'd say the only reason for that type of wording would be that the seller is including an old Xbox console inside the 360 box--NOT the Xbox 360 console.
There's a fine line between "Read the product description before bidding" and "Intentionally vague wording intended to fool people."
The listing is down, obviously. Given the seller's reponse to the refund request, it's clear that his use of "premium box" was likely used in such a way that no reasonable person would think of taking it literally, especially since it came with a game. After all, boxes that aren't empty are still called boxes, right? Why include a game with a "premium box" if there weren't something inside?
These kinds of auctions, while funny to the casual observer, are designed to defraud people. There's no other motivation for 1) putting an empty XBox carton on eBay, and 2) Letting the bidding for it get that high.
Don't defend this, you only add to the problem.
The listing is down, obviously. Given the seller's reponse to the refund request, it's clear that his use of "premium box" was likely used in such a way that no reasonable person would think of taking it literally, especially since it came with a game. After all, boxes that aren't empty are still called boxes, right? Why include a game with a "premium box" if there weren't something inside?
These kinds of auctions, while funny to the casual observer, are designed to defraud people. There's no other motivation for 1) putting an empty XBox carton on eBay, and 2) Letting the bidding for it get that high.
Don't defend this, you only add to the problem.
Ponn01 said:
Well this is definitely a scam, but ive seen alot of ebay auctions that explicitly say THIS IS JUST A BOX NO SYSTEM HARHARIMSOFUNNY!!!
its lame sure, and if i were the person selling the box i wouldnt take the money but i wouldn't say its "fraud" if its explicitly written.
sp0rsk said:
Because it is designed to be fraud. Do you think the box is worth anything? $800.00? The seller knows this and intentionally sets out to fool someone into buying what they think is an Xbox 360.
Does he take shots of the inside of the box, empty and brown? Nope. You get a nice, promotional shot, straight from Microsoft. Not to mention, the fucker is called the xbox. Somebody's fifty year old mother or seventy-five year old grandmother is not going to be savvy enough to know that some dickhead is selling a damn empty box worth a few cents (if anything) to unsuspecting people.
Now, if the warning is something like:
XBOX 360 BOX: SYSTEM NOT INCLUDED
You are bidding for an empty retail box. No system included.
Then, hey, I guess it's okay. But the one's that I have seen post the system specs, include the retail promo shots, and make little mention that the system isn't packed inside.
Matlock said:Honestly, I'm not defending it, but there's a bit of responsibility on the buyer as well.
In summary: fuck both the sellers and the buyers that perpetuate it--but mostly those who DON'T READ.
She likely did read, and I highly doubt the box was described as "empty."
Matlock said:Honestly, I'm not defending it, but there's a bit of responsibility on the buyer as well.
In summary: fuck both the sellers and the buyers that perpetuate it--but mostly those who DON'T READ.
Look, I walk into a retail store and I buy a Xbox 360 is it my responsibility to make sure the damn thing is in there? Hell no. If it's not do I take it back and get a refund or get a new one or is the EB guy gonna laugh at me and say
"HAHA we fooled you!" and points to a small print sign on the counter that says all Xbox 360's are boxes only "No refund for you!"
This isn't childish games people are playing, they are intentionally doing this and knowing parents in a rush are going to bid and they are going to scam them out of money.
Call me a douchebag. I care not. I've never bought a single item in my life for the purpose of reselling. I am merely defending capitalism.
Wait, what? So the seller knows that his auction will net $800? Last time I checked, it was a free market. If someone wants to bid $800 for an empty box, that is their perogative. Goods are only worth how much one is willing to spend on it. If no one was willing to spend on the auction, it would have only been worth the $1 starting bid. It's the BUYER who created that $800 value.
There is a legitimate market for empty boxes/cases if you ask me. Sometimes people lack packaging due to misplacing, breaking or buying 2nd hand items that don't come with it. And collectors want the packaging only. For instance, I personally would purchase a mint Mischief Makers box for the N64, since mine is all smashed up. If someone were offering that, is that fraud?
urk said:
Wait, what? So the seller knows that his auction will net $800? Last time I checked, it was a free market. If someone wants to bid $800 for an empty box, that is their perogative. Goods are only worth how much one is willing to spend on it. If no one was willing to spend on the auction, it would have only been worth the $1 starting bid. It's the BUYER who created that $800 value.
There is a legitimate market for empty boxes/cases if you ask me. Sometimes people lack packaging due to misplacing, breaking or buying 2nd hand items that don't come with it. And collectors want the packaging only. For instance, I personally would purchase a mint Mischief Makers box for the N64, since mine is all smashed up. If someone were offering that, is that fraud?
Ghengis Cohen
Banned
Also the description says "new" which if the box was opened it is not new. Sop no it was not stated explicitly.GashPrex said:
Particle Physicist
between a quark and a baryon
Tsubaki said:
only you arent defending legal capitalism.
quadriplegicjon said:
furthermore this also holds true::
GashPrex said:
Tsubaki said:
I was waiting for someone to trot out the ol' "I'm defending capitalism!" chestnut. Way to ignore the details of the situation; way to try to have us believe you think anyone would spend $800 on an XBox box knowing full well that it was empty.
That must be some special box! Like, enchanted or some shit.
chaostrophy
Member
Tsubaki said:
eBay is NOT a free market. It is not a capitalist society of its own. It is a private business, with the right to allow or deny transactions made through it as it sees fit. Allowing this particular auction and ones like it would make eBay less attractive to the vast majority of its customers and potential customers, and therefore it declares the auction invalid.
That's capitalism at work.
HomerSimpson-Man
Member
I don't care for all the semantics of fraud or what not, but say overall screw this crap and the people who do it.
GashPrex said:
I don't see how this works when the buyer set the price they wanted to pay. What if the auction started at $1, like many do?
There was no meeting of the minds because the seller didn't read the description of what she was buying. That's the only meeting of the mind on ebay, unless she sent him an email prior to bidding(unlikely).
I didn't see the description so I don't know if it was or was not clear. I didn't see the auction at all, so i'm making some assumptions, but I don't see how this would be illegal IF DONE A CERTAIN WAY. Some of the examples provided in this thread or obviously illegal.
AltogetherAndrews
Member
I'd find a way to track him down and kick the **** out of him. It may not be illegal, but that doesn't make it right. This is precisely why this society is as paranoid as it is. Don't defend crap like this.
AltogetherAndrews said:
I'm not defending it personally. It's good that ebay is kicking these people off. I'm definitely not going to defend ebay kicking him off for being an ass. I just think it might not actually be illegal. I also think that Americans are lazy.
sp0rsk said:
Indeed, there may be deceptive ones with stats and vague wording but there are also those that are not deceptive. Say a paragraph describing it's an empty box with pictures of the empty box's inside saying "you're only getting this empty cardboard box" in big bold letters repeated over and over again, "no system", "it's worth pennies". I expect to get a few bucks at best, whoopsie daisy a bunch of monetary hassles to return the cash(wish honestly I shouldn't. I should draw a wiggle on it and sell it as art too, let's see them value my art! selling divus' art on an empty box no system inside.) due to some retard bringing it sky high.
Or suppose I go and place a "My precious golden box" and underneath "This is a cardboard box, with no gold in it, it's just cheap gold foil", and I'm sure some may raise that up to the thousands. Is it my fault? Nope.
There are countless retards in this world, and while there are deceptive auctions that may dupe one if one's a bit careless, there are some that explicitly state what they're selling, if someone's retarded enough to confuse paragraphs of plain english in bold letters with clear explicit pictures and all, it's their fault and their fault alone. For example you could probably sell an old xbox right now for an outrageous price, even if you included clear pics and warnings in bold red letters that it's the old not the new xbox, YOUR FAIR AND SQUARE AUCTION which may've been getting a decent reasonable bid MIGHT SUDDENLY BE INFESTED BY A GROUP OF RETARDS, that take your auction sky-high and then claim they didn't know better and probably get you banned as a seller. Let's see them do that when they ignore the "STOP! NO BRIDGE AHEAD!" warning...
PS
I can tell you if I explicitly state what I'm selling with clear pictures, bold red letter warnings and what not, and I'm getting a decent reasonable bid on a fair and square auction, and some low-iq idiot comes in and screws it up, and ebay decides to side with them and ban me.... say hello to DOS attck and good bye 100s of millions :lol
Glad you clarified your position. I wouldn't put the responsibility on the buyer to be able to read through the seller's deception though. The buyer's responsibility should really be in not perpetuating the inflated demand for these products that fuels the insane markups.Matlock said:Honestly, I'm not defending it, but there's a bit of responsibility on the buyer as well.
In summary: fuck both the sellers and the buyers that perpetuate it--but mostly those who DON'T READ.
Am I a bad person for hoping these things continue to happen because its funny? Seriously I always get a kick out of the BS auctions that people link to. Honestly, I feel bad for the mom for getting cheated while trying to buy her kid a christmas gift, but come on. I thought half the time the winning bid is just someone who has no intention of paying it but wants to increase the comedy value of the auction itself.
Holy crap! I wish my mom could afford to spend $800 on me for Christmas o.o!
Ya can look at a situation like this either way so hmm I'll go with the sellers side. Who says ya aren't allowed to sell a box? Who would want one? Collectors. Who jacked up the price? Bidders not the seller. So nyah. Its hard ta feel sorry for pigeons~
Ya can look at a situation like this either way so hmm I'll go with the sellers side. Who says ya aren't allowed to sell a box? Who would want one? Collectors. Who jacked up the price? Bidders not the seller. So nyah. Its hard ta feel sorry for pigeons~
Nameless
Member
All ethics aside this is not illegal. If he was taken to court, even a fairly compitent attorney could get him off quite easily. You could argue that "know one in their right mind would pay such for an empty box knowling". But then you get into the realm of pure subjectivness. I've personally seeen people blow more money on less.
Anyway, this isn't much UNLIKE various Title Loan, Car, Cell Phone commercials etc...Where they advertise a deal that is too good to be true, and in uber small print at the bottom of the screen or ad reveal the "catch" that makes the entire thing BS or only feesible to a very small group of people.
Anyway, people like this get what they deserve IMO. I don't care if i'm buying a $5 DVD off ebay, I'll read EVERYTHING backwords and forwards, to make sure i'm going to get what I desire. I make sure its domestically coded, it has the box, its domestically coded, if its the actual DVD or a burn etc...Thats on a $5 purchase. So if are willing to shell out almost a grand, and don't read every friggin sentence and or get someone to clarifiy what you don't understand...You fuckin deseve it.
Anyway, this isn't much UNLIKE various Title Loan, Car, Cell Phone commercials etc...Where they advertise a deal that is too good to be true, and in uber small print at the bottom of the screen or ad reveal the "catch" that makes the entire thing BS or only feesible to a very small group of people.
Anyway, people like this get what they deserve IMO. I don't care if i'm buying a $5 DVD off ebay, I'll read EVERYTHING backwords and forwards, to make sure i'm going to get what I desire. I make sure its domestically coded, it has the box, its domestically coded, if its the actual DVD or a burn etc...Thats on a $5 purchase. So if are willing to shell out almost a grand, and don't read every friggin sentence and or get someone to clarifiy what you don't understand...You fuckin deseve it.
I don't care how legitimate these types of auctions are, I regard the people who create them as the lowest kind of scum. Not only does it mean that you now have to go through every auction you're interested in with a fine toothed legalese comb, but it increases the "noise" ratio in searches and listings for people who are looking for real items. The same is true of those scumbags who sell "information on how to get an (insert item here)" or "an ebook that tells you how to get an (insert item here) for free" or whatever.