It's in the Pro, not sure about the Laptop?
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This is the new MS Surface Pro
- Thread starter Vanillalite
- Start date
It's in the Pro, not sure about the Laptop?
I was just talking about ram and storage. Apple is a notorious example of overcharging for that stuff.
I didn't want to get into "what computer is better" discussion.
a lot of Windows laptops also come with that standard. 8gb of ram at least.
Gotcha.
I think 4gb for entry level is fine. Esp if they have SSD. If you just use it for surfing, office, and what not. I don't see a problem with it.
edit: don't get me wrong I'd buy nothing but 8gb as a starting point.
The biggest problem I see for consumers is Chrome and tabs. People love to open tabs and chrome eats a ton of ram. Edge is better about that but not sure people will use it vs Chrome. Especially younger people. I really like Edge so it's a shame.
Future proofing and all of that too. But mostly I worry about tabs when it comes to basic stuff.
All good points.
Skel1ingt0n
I can't *believe* these lazy developers keep making file sizes so damn large. Btw, how does technology work?
I think it's less about the 4GB entry, but more about the ridiculous cost to upgrade to 8 or 16GB (or 256 or 512+ storage).
Zeyphersan
Banned
Those 100s of millions of Surface buyers
DongBeetle
Banned
Fuck I want LTE
Damon Bennet
Member
Edit: nm
iPads have iOS which is limited to apps in the appstore.
These surface have full windows 10.(except foe the surface laptop).
So its way better on windows than iOS for that kind of application.
I appreciate this write up. I agree that cost is a big consideration when it comes to a laptop for personal use or work.
But it isn't the only thing.
My daily driver is a Surface Book. This is after I tried about all of the options in the article... Which is possible due to some no hassle return policies each company and many stores have available.
To me it came down to build and feel. The XPS build was so crummy. The keyboard had keys that felt loose and had jiggle. The trackpad was atrocious.
The HP was slightly better than the XPS.
MacBooks I historically owned. But I don't like the computing direction Apple has been going. I do love love love their trackpads.
Tried an SP3 and it was the best of the bunch. Though I wanted a bigger screen, I thought the trackpad was nice on the cover.
I also have a personal belief that there are benefits to owning a hardware from software companies. Own a Nexus for this reason. Just have some likely weird thought process that in these cases the hardware will be better optimized for whatever software the company is putting out there.
Navidson REC
Member
Not sure about SP2 because the size changed from SP2 to SP3. It may work but it would look awkward.
Anything SP3 and above should work like a charm though. They are amazing, too. I have a SP4 type cover and it's a fantastic keyboard, MUCH better than SP2.
Shogmaster
Member
This is obviously one of the entry level ones. They also have a 4K option in the line up with great color gamut, but IIRC it's gonna be like $1300. The SSD in all Yoga 720s are NVMe. Don't remember RAM speeds.
Shogmaster
Member
You can't run Photoshop directly on iPads. "Photoshop" apps on iOS aren't real Photoshop. You can have iPad attached to a Mac and run it as reduced resolution second screen with Astropad app, but it's not ideal solution.
Shogmaster
Member
Out Appling Apple...
Sony
Nintendo
Surface Laptop limited to Windows Store for software installation.
Sufrace Tablet full Windows 10.
What a world.
In defense of Surface Pro pricing being rediculous: The Pro line was never meant to compete with OEM's. So the Surface line being out of reach abides to that condition. People saying there are cheaper Surface Pro competitors, that's exactly the point.
Sufrace Tablet full Windows 10.
What a world.
In defense of Surface Pro pricing being rediculous: The Pro line was never meant to compete with OEM's. So the Surface line being out of reach abides to that condition. People saying there are cheaper Surface Pro competitors, that's exactly the point.
polyh3dron
Banned
I'm pretty sure they are going to give you the option of Windows 10 S on the Pro's. At least that's what I've read. Perhaps that's coming down the pike.
As for pricing? Surface has always been priced high. Not sure why this is so shocking to some. It's a premium product.
I think Surface has gone Apple with complaints about pricing and the little details of the product. It's good that people care about the product.
The best thing about the surface brand is that it's made other manufacturers step up their game. Dell, HP and others are now making very comparable devices, better than they ever have before. Shop around and check reviews. Surface, especially mid to high range will more than likely be pricier. However I think they're also probably the best made. The Pro 4 and the Elite book and the new Laptop are incredible.
I don't mind them pricing the Surfaces above OEM products with similar specs to avoid eating their lunch, but sitting in the high price segment makes it glaringly bad for a machine to be crippled with weaknesses like an old processor, no TB3 or USB-C, no choice of keyboard layout. Even a very high price premium is sometimes easy to stomach for some people, but not when it comes with obvious tradeoffs or shortcomings in functionality that simply don't belong in a $2k laptop released in 2017.
LordOfChaos
Member
Which model are you talking about here? The Pro 4 was on Skylake, an update to Kaby Lake was already almost nothing in gain (yes, in the macbook pros too), and this brings it up to KL anyways.
Agreed on pricing and the rest, but I can't fathom why people were calling the processor old outside of numbers on a page, KL staying a hundred MHz higher in boost isn't much, the uArch and node are the same.
chekhonte
Member
Thanks! I'll just get a 4 then.
Surface Book still has an antique CPU.
Something I don't get about the new Surface Pro: Microsoft and Panos specificaly keep saying this is the "lightest surface pro ever", but according to the specs on the Microsoft Store it looks identcail to the Pro 4?
Not that the Pro 4 is heavy or anything, but I'm just confused here. They both appear to be 1.73lbs for the device, and 0.68lbs for the type cover?
Not that the Pro 4 is heavy or anything, but I'm just confused here. They both appear to be 1.73lbs for the device, and 0.68lbs for the type cover?
FinaruDensetsu
Member
Lighter because they don't include the pen anymore.
On a serious note, do we know how much better the GPU is with the i7 as compared to the i5 version?
I don't use photoshop on my SP4 but I can tell you I would choose my surface over my GF's ipad for any work related stuff any day. If I need to work at home, I plug my surface into my monitor and go on like its any old desktop PC, which you can use photoshop for.
Browsing the internet tho? Gimme that iPad lol
Also, don't see any reason for upgrading to this from the SP4. I bought mine back in December of 2015 with upgraded CPU and RAM, and it's still running great. This version doesn't give any incentive to upgrade for me, but maybe from the SP3 and below it would be.
Much faster. Twice the execution units and dedicated edram.
Here's the HD 620 compared to the Iris 540 (in Skylake), which is pretty much the same as the Iris Plus 640.
And the i7 won't be limited to passive cooling either, meaning it will be able to sustain higher speeds and temperatures without throttling.
FinaruDensetsu
Member
Much faster. Twice the execution units and dedicated edram.
Here's the HD 620 compared to the Iris 540 (in Skylake), which is pretty much the same as the Iris Plus 640.
And the i7 won't be limited to passive cooling either, meaning it will be able to sustain higher speeds and temperatures without throttling.
OH wow. Thanks for this. I'll definitely be picking up the i7 instead of the i5 then. While having a fanless one for quiet tablet operation would be nice, having better performance and hopefully less heat is better.
Hmmm... so does that mean the Surface Pro 4 graphic performance is roughly the same as what the Surface Pro 5 will give?
antyk
Member
Starting to see SP4 prices going down. Nice! 
For me the 'new' SP doesn't make much sense - it's pricier (obviously), looks worse (I like the literally industrial, edgy design of the SP4) and doesn't have the pen. The CPU bump is probably +/-5% for the same spec and while I could use the improved cooling and in particular the LTE, I can live without them. So, SP4 it is!
For me the 'new' SP doesn't make much sense - it's pricier (obviously), looks worse (I like the literally industrial, edgy design of the SP4) and doesn't have the pen. The CPU bump is probably +/-5% for the same spec and while I could use the improved cooling and in particular the LTE, I can live without them. So, SP4 it is!
antyk
Member
Starting to see SP4 prices going down. Nice!
For me the 'new' SP doesn't make much sense - it's pricier (obviously), looks worse (I like the literally industrial, edgy design of the SP4) and doesn't have the pen. The CPU bump is probably +/-5% for the same spec and while I could use the improved cooling and in particular the LTE, I can live without them. So, SP4 it is!
Ok, changing my mind again - for less than $100 I can get the new SP with i5 that apparently beats the old SP4 i7 by 3-4% in performance (I don't care about GPU; for music making it's the CPU that's important), while its passively cooled, battery supposedly lasts longer. The only downside is lack of the pen, which I probably wouldn't use anyway (and can buy it later).
Decisions, decisions...
As an owner of the SP4, I'd still tell you to go with the newer tech if it's only $100 more. You can always get a pen later. I only use the pen for writing notes in OneNote (which is the best student tool I've used).
Personally, I'm waiting for the true successor to the Surface Book. I only use my Surface Pro devices as a tablet when I take notes. I don't care if the next Surface Book's screen is detachable, but it at least needs to flip all the way around so I can write on it like a tablet. If it can do that, while still spreading its hardware across both halves of the clamshell, then it's the ultimate choice for my needs.
antyk
Member
Thanks, yes I get that but my concern is to at least have the same performance. Nominally, as I said the new i5 is 3-4% better than old i7, but there's the question of throttling the i5 with the new passive cooling. I need the best "bang for the buck" in terms of CPU performance for (hobbyist, but still...) music making
Thanks, yes I get that but my concern is to at least have the same performance. Nominally, as I said the new i5 is 3-4% better than old i7, but there's the question of throttling the i5 with the new passive cooling. I need the best "bang for the buck" in terms of CPU performance for (hobbyist, but still...) music making
Wait for reviews.
AfterTheFall
Member
Microsoft charging these prices for hardware is ludicrous, they are not Apple and don't have that reverence amongst the general public.
BlastProcessing
Member
The problem is, surfing actually uses a ton of ram. The most casual users I know have a dozen Chrome tabs open at once. 4GB is simply not enough and I think MS configured their price points this way so they wouldn't piss off their hardware partners. It's really frustrating to see the Surface line constantly artificially hamstrung by MS fear of actually competing on hardware.
Shogmaster
Member
Stupid reverence motivating Apple fans to overpay lolz
Cracks me up! Lol
BlastProcessing
Member
Reputations are earned.
TheLaughingStock
Member
I don't see what the big deal is. MS doesn't want to offer it for whatever reason in the base model. Plus, it's not like Surface owners or the public in general are turning over tables because manufacturers are pushing these 4GB machines out.
This 8GB is a must in 2017 hub bub is silly.
Dee Dah Dave
Member
The MS Pen is my biggest issue with the Surface, and I'm not convinced the new one is better than the Apple Pencil overall. Especially so if Apple also announce a new one next month.
iPad Pro has it's limitations (which I hope are addressed soon), but the Apple Pencil is fantastic. I was looking this year to get a SP5 or iPad Pro 2 and if Apple can fix a few major things I think they have a winner.
iPad Pro has it's limitations (which I hope are addressed soon), but the Apple Pencil is fantastic. I was looking this year to get a SP5 or iPad Pro 2 and if Apple can fix a few major things I think they have a winner.
That's what I have at work. The processor is OK, it's the 4 GB of RAM that makes it hard to use.
I asked for an i5 one, but they said that was too expensive, then bought me a super ugly case and 200 GB sd card to go with it, neither of which I have a use for.
how is the Iris 640 performance in games? I'd like to know if it can run Euro Truck Simulator and some indie games? (I am ok playing in smaller resolutions)
I was 99% sure about getting the Surface Laptop, was just deciding between the i5 8gb or i7 8gb (depending if I could play anything in this thing).... at first I didnt like the Surface Pro, but I think it would be great to have it for note taking, its lighter and smaller so easier to carry around, and I usually take notes all the time (right now I use my android phone with google keep lol, what a great way to have shitty productivity, right?). So now I am also interested in the Surface Book (and I like that you can use it as 'surface studio')....
when are we supposed to get reviews for them?
I was 99% sure about getting the Surface Laptop, was just deciding between the i5 8gb or i7 8gb (depending if I could play anything in this thing).... at first I didnt like the Surface Pro, but I think it would be great to have it for note taking, its lighter and smaller so easier to carry around, and I usually take notes all the time (right now I use my android phone with google keep lol, what a great way to have shitty productivity, right?). So now I am also interested in the Surface Book (and I like that you can use it as 'surface studio')....
when are we supposed to get reviews for them?
FinaruDensetsu
Member
Does anyone here have an i5 or i7 sp4 and can speak to pcsx2 performance on them?