Jex
Member
I think the only important thing missing from this discussion is, of course, the amazing DVD menu for End of Evangelion:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-S5ZeNK9dAo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-S5ZeNK9dAo
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Thoughts on The End of Evangelion?
- Thread starter Lights and Waves
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Shiet, I remember this. I normally breeze through menus so I didn't realize how nuts it got right away. Blew my mind when I actually left it running and saw the full cycle.
Damn good post. I do like how all the building up and crashing down, the ending makes you question whether it's a happy one or not.
Psycho_Mantis
Banned
masterpiece
Truly one of the greatest animated movies.
I'd like to point out that the movie had a fantastic OST as well. It is an excellent selection of original pieces written by Shirō Sagisu and some Bach pieces mixed in between.
In a way the compilation of tracks is just as much of a chaotic mess as the movie but it does an excellent job of underlining various key scenes.
The film goes out of its way to put the music in the spotlight on quite a few occasions and to great effect.
Sadly not the Myra Hess piano arrangement but I still enjoy playing it quite a bit! On that note, I should probably have a look where I can get that arrangement.
I'd like to point out that the movie had a fantastic OST as well. It is an excellent selection of original pieces written by Shirō Sagisu and some Bach pieces mixed in between.
In a way the compilation of tracks is just as much of a chaotic mess as the movie but it does an excellent job of underlining various key scenes.
The film goes out of its way to put the music in the spotlight on quite a few occasions and to great effect.
Sadly not the Myra Hess piano arrangement but I still enjoy playing it quite a bit! On that note, I should probably have a look where I can get that arrangement.
Pretty much exactly word for word how I feel about the how debacle, including the bit about the third movie.
"Want more huh? Ok, I'll kill everyone cause FUCK YOU THAT'S WHY." Meh.
30yearsofhurt
Member
A good artist shouldn't need to explain their work
or the flip-side
Because no-one can figure out what happened means it is bad art.
Personally I see it as a fundamentally flawed work. It retains a veneer of mystery and the stylistic graces of being something greater than a mere anime yet it just ends up being a jumbled mess. The fact that more than half the story literally is not told or explained in any shape or form really hurts it and robs it of 90% of its potential impact.
There is an understandable story to Evangelion, you just aren't going to see it by watching the shows and movies.
This is true.
It ends rather optimistically, though.
They discovered Adam in his crashed moon in the north pole, removed the lance, tried to reduce him to embryo, and he detonated, creating the angels in the process.
The crash landing of Lilith's spaceship (the dark moon), if I remember correctly.
They don't come from Lilith, but from Adam. Earth was supposed to be populated with angels, but instead humans took over. Lilith wasn't supposed to be here. The goal of the angels is to meet Adam and terraform earth.
He was. He just allowed Shinji to kill him to avoid destroying mankind. Kaworu = Adam.
Overall that's it and they wanted to force a new form of evolution on mankind.
He just wanted to be reunited with his wife and worked against Seele because as he said, nothing positive comes from destruction.
Where did you get that idea from? Nothing ever suggests she killed him, on the contrary.
Are you sure about this one? She wasn't supposed to be on Earth?
John Kowalski
Banned
Misato didn't shoot Kaji, what the hell.
Pretty much, Shinji realizes that pain is a part of life and that its better to feel pain than not feel anything at all, and that running away in fact hurts yourself and those closest to you more than anything. It's actually a really heartfelt and sincere film I felt, especially when you realize that Gendo himself closed himself off from Shinji because he felt that he didn't deserve to be loved, its pretty sad and drives home the idea that, in the end, everybody is kind of the same and that we all feel these emotions and close ourselves off from the world. At the end, so as long as you continue to exist, you have the chance to change and find your own happiness.
From what I remember she crash landed on Earth. Adam was already there, but not awoken yet. Her crash landing awoke her, she started leaking LCL and created earth's life as we know it.
Since she was activated, Adam stayed sealed with the longinus lance as a fail safe to avoid two seeds of life being in direct confrontation. Everything would have been okay if mankind hadn't awoken Adam to use him for the instrumentality project.
Originally, it was thought because of the high sync rate between children with traumatic childhood experience but as the film reveals, the pilots were chosen because they also personal connection to the Eva they pilot (Rei came from Lilith, which was also used to form unit oo, Shinji's mom in Unit 01, Asuka's mom in Unit 02).
Adam arrived in Black moon (which would eventually turned into Geofront), crashed landed on Earth. Scientists thinks they can harness him and instead it created 2nd impact, wiping out most humans. They managed to stop user catastrophe by reducing him to embryonic size.
The extinction event of major species before us, the Dinosaurs. Impacts in this series is meant to refer to extinction events that wipe out or almost wipe out an entire species.
Gendo and Seele believe that mankind is incomplete. We try so hard to connect to each other but all we get is pain and sadness. No one wants to open up enough and be honest because doing that allows you to get hurt by others easily. That's when we put up our AT-Field: our individuality / defense mechanism to stop others from hurting us emotionally. It comes in many form: avoidance, pride, anger, etc and come out when we get too close to someone and feels the other person might hurt us.
Gendo and Seele believe that if our individuality, our AT-Field, the ego that holds our physical form is dissolved, human maybe able to understand each other better because we would no longer able to hide our emotions from others. Gendo was going to be in control of this process, until Rei and Kaworu decided through their interactions with humans that Shinji is a better person to decide mankind's fate.
After experiencing instrumentality for a while, where all humanity are joined in one form of Lilith/Adam, Shinji decided this is not right. Even if humanity hurts each other, they also capable of loving each other. And even though they've hurt him one way or another, he misses the physical form of his friends because at least what he felt back then even in sadness,was real.
Rei and Kaworu warned Shinji that aborting instrumentality means everyone can go back to their human forms, *IF* they chose to do so. So it means they can hurt Shinji again. Shinji accepts it and instrumentality was aborted. The first two people who turned out to have strong will to live and individuality are Shinji and Asuka. That's why we saw them first. Shinji still fucked up from his instrumentality state chokes Asuka in anger only to find out that while Asuka is disgusted by him, she also cares about him.
Well said. Yes, it's a really beautiful sentiment and avoids being overly sentimental or saccharine in the way that it really could have, in the way that many coming-of-age anime (or just fiction) have. Instead, it's just disarmingly earnest and feels cathartic. It's as happy an ending as we could've hoped for.
A lot of people do get hung up on the weirdness that envelopes that core idea though, but even then, EoE's air of "WTF" isn't as impenetrable a wall as some may like to believe, I bet. Maybe you just have to watch it as a lonely teenager to have it truly impact you in an intangible way -- that even if you don't quite truly understand what it's saying, you certainly feel it, like a dam breaking somewhere.
EoE is a masterpiece.
p.s. I'm totally jelly about your laserdisc set.
Thanks for answering my questions guys. Cleared up quite a bit. Found the series hard to follow sometimes, and missed some things, so this helped a lot.
With regards to question 10, I missed Kaji implying that'd he'd face death for his actions, so his death kinda came sudden for me. It also threw me off that he apparently seemed familiar with his killer (so I thought the killer was known to the viewer too) and after that scene it cut to Misato fast, leading to me making that connection. Hence I asked why here, because that didn't really make sense to me. Turns out, it doesn't make any sense and I just missed something, so good that that's cleared up.
With regards to question 10, I missed Kaji implying that'd he'd face death for his actions, so his death kinda came sudden for me. It also threw me off that he apparently seemed familiar with his killer (so I thought the killer was known to the viewer too) and after that scene it cut to Misato fast, leading to me making that connection. Hence I asked why here, because that didn't really make sense to me. Turns out, it doesn't make any sense and I just missed something, so good that that's cleared up.
The biggest mystery is still question 11 though 
The biggest mystery is still question 11 though
Science has been unable to give us hoverboards and self-lacing shoes, my brother, and you want those pesky scientists to give us mecha-organic creatures that would let us interface with them on a cerebral-spiritual level?
I just want my hoverboard, dammit!
Professor Renegade
Banned
I'm not a big Evangelion fan, the original series felt a little too heavy and depressing for me (at the same time though it's an ingenious take on the mecha genre). When I came around to watching The End of EVA though I initially liked it. There was a lot of action and a great mecha fight right from the get-go, but then I got to the end...Man, the end just fucked me up. There's something about human extinction that has always frightened me, but for everyone to simply liquify into a state of existence without a sense of individuality just freaked me right the fuck out on a psychological level.
I still have mixed feelings about it, but I think I lean more towards liking it instead of disliking it.
I still have mixed feelings about it, but I think I lean more towards liking it instead of disliking it.
sleverfunk
Member
Watched it 2 years ago.
I saw a lot of anime with people dying left and right but what happened during EoE is just different. I'm not sure how to explain it but seeing people turned into tang and that scene in which earth lights up because of the crosses of light just give me weird vibes. The idea of human instrumantality project just freaks me out.
I saw a lot of anime with people dying left and right but what happened during EoE is just different. I'm not sure how to explain it but seeing people turned into tang and that scene in which earth lights up because of the crosses of light just give me weird vibes. The idea of human instrumantality project just freaks me out.
Pai Pai Master
Banned
Lol @ the last two posts. It's totally true. Misato and Asuka's shocking and violent deaths were hard to get past initially, but it's the people bursting into LCL that really haunts you.
This damn thread made me want to watch the movie tonight until I remembered some dickbag in college stole my copy of Death/Rebirth and EoE...
This damn thread made me want to watch the movie tonight until I remembered some dickbag in college stole my copy of Death/Rebirth and EoE...
Lilith produces offspring called Lilim when she broke down in white moon. Lilim turns out to be us, humans. The sum of us = the body parts of Lilith. Angels come from Adam, they are technically his 'offsprings' just like humans are Lilith's offspring.
Kaworu is a being that is created out of Adam's soul with human DNA/body (it's theorized that it's Keel Lorenz', the head of SEELE). His experience as a human allows him to understand human, especially Shinji, a lot more than other Angels. Rei is created out of Lilith's soul and placed into a body made out of Yui's DNA, btw, in case that's not clear already. Thus her similarity to Yui and her desire to return to Lilith and the white moon.
They have similar intent: merging all humanity into one superior being mixed with Lilith/Adam so humanity can survive even if the earth/sun cease to exist. The difference is who's in control. Sucks to be them because Rei and Kaworu decide that Shinji is a much better person to be in control.
She didn't? We never really know who shot Kaji.
Inside my Detolf. It's hard to find a good EVA figurine to be quite honest. Also, Unit 01's color is so tacky.
Well, imagine all the people that were taking a dump across the globe when instrumentality happened, and then suddenly PLOP! They turn into liquid and fall into the toilet. No pain. No nothing. You were slimed.
Yeah, this about sums it up.
I wonder who they see? Mr.Hankey? Imagine feeling sad all of a sudden while taking a dump and remember your most important person. It'd be pretty hard, I say.
And not only that. You are sitting on the throne, then suddenly this pale japanese girl appears from damn nowhere, morphs into your most important person and tries to kiss you, all while you are pushing out a rock.
And then, down you drain to the toilet bowl, and a giant cross appears just above the toilet.
What a way to go.
End of Eva is the best apocalypse movie ever. Such incredible, vivid imagery. And one of the best mech fights ever animated, too.
Is that storyboard book part of the Laserdisc set? Is it available to buy separately anywhere? I'd fucking love to have that.
Is that storyboard book part of the Laserdisc set? Is it available to buy separately anywhere? I'd fucking love to have that.
sleverfunk
Member
I thought turning into tang is horrible enough. But damn lol.
TheVampire
Banned
So all this shit is going down because humans and angels are not supposed to co-exist on the same planet.
Earth was meant for Adam and Angels but since Lilith crashed on Earth as well Adam deactivated and Lilith and humans became the rulers of Earth.
But then what happens if none of that ever happened and humans technology evolved and we developed space travel and went to another planet that was populated by Angels?
Earth was meant for Adam and Angels but since Lilith crashed on Earth as well Adam deactivated and Lilith and humans became the rulers of Earth.
But then what happens if none of that ever happened and humans technology evolved and we developed space travel and went to another planet that was populated by Angels?
We would fuck their shit up.
Because EVA is not fucked up enough, this *really* underscores how messed up instrumentality really is.
Well said. Yes, it's a really beautiful sentiment and avoids being overly sentimental or saccharine in the way that it really could have, in the way that many coming-of-age anime (or just fiction) have. Instead, it's just disarmingly earnest and feels cathartic. It's as happy an ending as we could've hoped for.
A lot of people do get hung up on the weirdness that envelopes that core idea though, but even then, EoE's air of "WTF" isn't as impenetrable a wall as some may like to believe, I bet. Maybe you just have to watch it as a lonely teenager to have it truly impact you in an intangible way -- that even if you don't quite truly understand what it's saying, you certainly feel it, like a dam breaking somewhere.
EoE is a masterpiece.
p.s. I'm totally jelly about your laserdisc set.
Agreed, I too get pretty upset when an End of Eva discussion amounts to nothing more than "mind fuck!" because like you said, it's genuinely a profound production that hit me on an emotional level, just like the series itself. The ending isn't manufactured, it truly feels fostered out of love, care and raw emotion and although that's not tangible or quantifiable, the feelings that you get from watching the film sure is. The whole experience feels cohesive and whole, with a set narrative to tell, never skewing or going on a tangent. The imagery is surreal, and overpowering, and this can definitely overpower your sense, but jumping into calling it "2deep4u" and boiling it down to a bunch of image macros and memes really takes away from it all. Like you said, its a profound series and a masterpiece in every sense of the word. When I watched Eva and EoE for the first time as a teenager, it never changed my life, because life itself is too large to be deviated by a film, but it most definitely had a huge impact on me. Going through feelings of loneliness and self conflict back then, I don't think you should turn to an anime for mental health, but I definitely connected to the series on a personal level. Also, thanks
Yup its a part of the Laser Disc set unfortunately. I guess somebody might be selling it separately, but it was never available as such by itself at retail.
patrickthehedgehog
Member
Just buy the Groundwork of End of Evangelion books. I think they're the same and in a much larger format.
drunkendonuts
Member
i'm a TV ending fan, but i will say that EoE remains one of my favorite animated features to this day.
like, even though everything went batshit, i still enjoyed the ride. the asuka Vs. eva MP fight still remains one of my favorite animated fight scenes, it captures motion and especially weight very well. they took some liberties in the dub audio that I could have done without, but overall, it's some good stuff. if you have the original manga entertainment DVD, listening to the commentary by amanda winn lee and company is pretty good. in addition, rocco and garett from mega64 did a free downloadable commentary for the movie as well about a year or two ago, and that had some good insights in it as well.
that said, i'd love a blu ray of the film.
like, even though everything went batshit, i still enjoyed the ride. the asuka Vs. eva MP fight still remains one of my favorite animated fight scenes, it captures motion and especially weight very well. they took some liberties in the dub audio that I could have done without, but overall, it's some good stuff. if you have the original manga entertainment DVD, listening to the commentary by amanda winn lee and company is pretty good. in addition, rocco and garett from mega64 did a free downloadable commentary for the movie as well about a year or two ago, and that had some good insights in it as well.
that said, i'd love a blu ray of the film.
Blu-ray is coming out this August in Japan bundled with the series, no subtitles however, also around $300
Agreed, I too get pretty upset when an End of Eva discussion amounts to nothing more than "mind fuck!" because like you said, it's genuinely a profound production that hit me on an emotional level, just like the series itself. The ending isn't manufactured, it truly feels fostered out of love, care and raw emotion and although that's not tangible or quantifiable, the feelings that you get from watching the film sure is. The whole experience feels cohesive and whole, with a set narrative to tell, never skewing or going on a tangent. The imagery is surreal, and overpowering, and this can definitely overpower your sense, but jumping into calling it "2deep4u" and boiling it down to a bunch of image macros and memes really takes away from it all. Like you said, its a profound series and a masterpiece in every sense of the word. When I watched Eva and EoE for the first time as a teenager, it never changed my life, because life itself is too large to be deviated by a film, but it most definitely had a huge impact on me. Going through feelings of loneliness and self conflict back then, I don't think you should turn to an anime for mental health, but I definitely connected to the series on a personal level. Also, thanks
I think people's troll side just get tickled when they hear words like "masterpiece" so I rarely use it and just say that the series and film connect to me on a personal level.
I understand what it feels like to feel lonely. To try so hard to make friends and get hurt again and again and eventually feels like not trying anymore.
That's why in EoE starting with Misato's final speech about how she keeps making mistake over and over again but she feels she becomes a better person each time to the end where Shinji rejects instrumentality, I completely lost it. The film was a roller-coaster of sad/anger/loneliness montage that I felt reflects many things I sometimes feel about my life. Even the songs like Thanatos, Air, etc resonate with me.
drunkendonuts
Member
Misato's speech really resonated with me, like, I watched the movie at a very strange time in my life, and it really hit close to home when she was saying things like that. It's actually one of the reasons she's one of my favorite fictional characters to this day.
I never really understood why Misato was so sad when Kaji and then Shinji left her behind. But now I've had similar experience, I understand why. Getting left behind with no explanation whatsoever feels awful. It's like there's this empty gap which makes you wonder "is it me that made you ran away?"
Yeah it can often come across as pretentious to use such heavy and weighty words on a whim, and that could provoke reactions no doubt, but I do truly believe that EoE earns such praise. It seems to get dragged through the mud a lot, a victim of being "too popular" perhaps, and to a degree that people try to actively deny any affection towards it, but I believe that its resonated with so many people over these years for a reason. EoE told people what they needed to hear and not necessarily what they wanted to hear, as it held up a mirror to everybody.
It's a beautiful series with a much needed and heartfelt message which is why it saddens me when people feel that its just disturbing and depressing, when its in fact uplifting. Its saddens me that you too went through such feelings, but it pleases me that Evangelion means something dear to you. Its a great series and EoE is a phenomenal film that I feel people focus on the wrong parts of. People however can extract what they want from what they watch, because at the end of the day, Eva is all about perceived truth, and what you take out of it is yours, nobody can take that away from you or tell you that your feelings aren't true.
Oh c'mon she's riding him cowgirl....
Plus there are clear Oedipal/Freudian themes in the whole story. He's constantly fighting with his father, he wants to have sex with all the female characters but is too afraid to say or do anything. I thought it was pretty plain that it's about coming into coming to grips with one's sexuality and the ending of childhood.
Probably answered already, but here are my take on the questions:
1. The Second Impact somehow altered something about the children being born right after it occurred, thus making them the best possible candidates for Eva pilots.
2. Unit-01 only accepts Shinji. Unit-02 only accepts Asuka. So even if they're mentally screwed kids, you can't do anything about that.
3. Second Impact occurred when humans tried to make a contact with Adam. Its awakening caused a massive explosion on Earth, and we know what happened afterwards. As for the Lance, it was accompanied together with the angels' arrival on the planet, so it was with Adam from the start (Lilith's was destroyed before it arrived).
4. First Impact was literally a collision between Earth and the Black Moon, which contains Lilith.
5. Yes, though technically it is just merging of humanity's souls into one rather than a literal impact of something that will kill humanity. Shinji and Asuka were the first to appear because of their strong will to live. Shinji was screwed up so yeah choking Asuka the first time she saw her wasn't really that surprising
6. You can say that Angels were aliens, or ancient life forms long before humans existed. Humans were Lilith's children after all.
7. Kaworu is basically the same with Rei in that he was created containing the seed of life, in this case he was fused with Adam's DNA. His sole purpose is to make contact with Lilith to start Third Impact, which SEELE wanted from the very beginning.
8. Yes. They believed that Adam should be the one who populated the Earth instead of Lilith, thus they believed humanity carries the original sin and needs to be purified by merging the souls into one with god.
9. He just wants to be merged with Yui. That's why he went along with everything.
10. Kanji was a double agent, so she became Nerv's, and Misato's, enemy. Though it is uncertain that Misato was the one who killed him.
11. There are already robots you know. They just aren't the cool badass ride-able form
2. Unit-01 only accepts Shinji. Unit-02 only accepts Asuka. So even if they're mentally screwed kids, you can't do anything about that.
3. Second Impact occurred when humans tried to make a contact with Adam. Its awakening caused a massive explosion on Earth, and we know what happened afterwards. As for the Lance, it was accompanied together with the angels' arrival on the planet, so it was with Adam from the start (Lilith's was destroyed before it arrived).
4. First Impact was literally a collision between Earth and the Black Moon, which contains Lilith.
5. Yes, though technically it is just merging of humanity's souls into one rather than a literal impact of something that will kill humanity. Shinji and Asuka were the first to appear because of their strong will to live. Shinji was screwed up so yeah choking Asuka the first time she saw her wasn't really that surprising
6. You can say that Angels were aliens, or ancient life forms long before humans existed. Humans were Lilith's children after all.
7. Kaworu is basically the same with Rei in that he was created containing the seed of life, in this case he was fused with Adam's DNA. His sole purpose is to make contact with Lilith to start Third Impact, which SEELE wanted from the very beginning.
8. Yes. They believed that Adam should be the one who populated the Earth instead of Lilith, thus they believed humanity carries the original sin and needs to be purified by merging the souls into one with god.
9. He just wants to be merged with Yui. That's why he went along with everything.
10. Kanji was a double agent, so she became Nerv's, and Misato's, enemy. Though it is uncertain that Misato was the one who killed him.
11. There are already robots you know. They just aren't the cool badass ride-able form
Zeouterlimits
Member
That was not the UK menu, holy shit.
SomedayTheFire
Member
I liked the original ending. It seemed cathartic. I've never watched this, I should. I might do it tonight.
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