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THQ PR figure talks about reaction to CPU claim, but developer concern remains

We haven't even got into the PS4/720 system wars yet, which is where it truly begins. It'll make the Wii U tech-related threads pale by comparison.

Yup, assuming an E3 reveal for both - E3 is going to be a GAFocalypse. Even more of GAF will become component 'experts', we'll have people falling under the hammer for getting teased into saying stupid things by trolls, announcements will come, tears will flow. Should be hilarious.
 

Pie and Beans

Look for me on the local news, I'll be the guy arrested for trying to burn down a Nintendo exec's house.
lol @ OP's only bolded sentence. Transparency.

I'm kind of at a loss as to how the specs of this thing as they get revealed piece by piece are getting even worse. A CPU that far behind even the 360 is astounding.

But low power consumption!! Who gives a shit, you can only play the thing for three hours right now, and its not a portable.
 
The issue I have is that this shouldn't even be up for discussion.

I'm sure Nintendo have their reasons (power consumption), but to include a CPU that will have to rely on other components (and the developers) just to reach parity is incredible.
 

efyu_lemonardo

May I have a cookie?
The thing that really gets to me is that Nintendo could seemingly have made a slight compromise on either price (~extra $10) or power (~extra 10 watts) and easily come up with a better solution for 3rd parties.
 

Log4Girlz

Member
lol @ OP's only bolded sentence. Transparency.

I'm kind of at a loss as to how the specs of this thing as they get revealed piece by piece are getting even worse. A CPU that far behind even the 360 is astounding.

But low power consumption!! Who gives a shit, you can only play the thing for three hours right now, and its not a portable.

But they make a profit after 1 game purchase.
 

Zzoram

Member
See, when hardware evolves, so do the manufacturing processes. It's why when you see smaller or newer revisions of consoles, you'll notice they provide the same experience as the older model, but still maintain the same efficiency.

For instance, the power consumption and size of the components of the PS3 from the Phat > Slim > Super Slim have GREATLY reduced the power consumption and size of the components needed to run the PS3 since the original modeal.

In the long run, as these companies figure out how to get more out of less in their systems, they end up saving money by figuring out ways to increase efficiency by producing cheaper parts without sacrificing the integrity of their system, to ensure parity across all their models.

Essentially, what that last comment about is that they're amazed at the design efficiency that Nintendo has pulled off to make something with that kind of fidelity that has such low power-consumption with a greatly reduced amount of parts (saving your bills a few bucks a month, and reducing the heat a system produces). It is probably extremely efficient for them to produce as well, and will help them on the road to quick profitability as they further reduce everything in size down the line.

The console revisions use smaller manufacturing process. They said the Wii U CPU uses the same 45nm process as the 360 CPU but is 1/3 the size, so it is 1/3 the transistors.

CPUs maintain transistor count but get smaller because of process shrinks, 90nm -> 65nm -> 45nm, etc.
 
Yup, assuming an E3 reveal for both - E3 is going to be a GAFocalypse. Even more of GAF will become component 'experts', we'll have people falling under the hammer for getting teased into saying stupid things by trolls, announcements will come, tears will flow. Should be hilarious.

If both decided to wait until E3 to announce, GAF doesn't have a chance of staying up during most of E3
 

nubbe

Member
Every generation there is a bitch feast about Nintendo Power...
Yet, I have always had a blast on Nintendo's machines.
 

Pie and Beans

Look for me on the local news, I'll be the guy arrested for trying to burn down a Nintendo exec's house.
If you're casting aspersions on the op for bolding that you should know that he didn't have the quote in there at all originally. He only put it in the OP because I suggested it. He probably bolded it so I'd notice too, so ease up! :p

I think what gets me is people being surprised that the Wii U launching with multiple specs worse than the 7 year old Xbox 360 is generating a lot of news and negative feedback. All the "get over it" posts as a counter-point to the Wii's endlessly amazing mainstream press and hype are just really too bias to not colour those posters a flattering shade of red. I am honestly astonished by it all. I knew it wasnt going to be a beast in any respect, but to be struggling to match the now ancient HD twins in key spec areas is absolutely bizarre. All for that smaller box.
 

Thoraxes

Member
The console revisions use smaller manufacturing process. They said the Wii U CPU uses the same 45nm process as the 360 CPU but is 1/3 the size, so it is 1/3 the transistors.

CPUs maintain transistor count but get smaller because of process shrinks, 90nm -> 65nm -> 45nm, etc.

That's why i'm curious as to where they're getting the efficiency gains from to get near parity. I was actually only talking about the last last last comment, but this is fine too.
 

Osiris

I permanently banned my 6 year old daughter from using the PS4 for mistakenly sending grief reports as it's too hard to watch or talk to her
The console revisions use smaller manufacturing process. They said the Wii U CPU uses the same 45nm process as the 360 CPU but is 1/3 the size, so it is 1/3 the transistors.

CPUs maintain transistor count but get smaller because of process shrinks, 90nm -> 65nm -> 45nm, etc.

Although to be fair whilst the architectures of both CPU's are PowerPC based, they are not exactly the same, so translating the above into "1/3rd the power of the 360 chip" is a faulty conclusion hopefully only being made for humor reasons, not something to be taken seriously.

I'd personally expect that despite the size differences that it's probably somewhere in the region of 75%-80% the power of the 360 CPU.
 
A thought came to me recently. The Wii U vs PS3/360 reminds me a bit of the Super Nintendo, in that the SNES had a much weaker CPU than systems that came out years prior (Genesis and Turbografx) but better graphics. IIRC the SNES had a weaker CPU for backwards compatibility reasons which didn't end up in the system. I wonder if people complained about that in the early '90s...

It made for a very interesting generation, with Genesis getting faster multiplatform games and SNES getting better looking ones, but the original games on SNES (and Genesis) were pretty amazing.

I'm very interested in what'll happen with the Wii U vs PS3/360, and subsequently vs PS4/next Xbox.
 

Log4Girlz

Member
A thought came to me recently. The Wii U vs PS3/360 reminds me a bit of the Super Nintendo, in that the SNES had a much weaker CPU than systems that came out years prior (Genesis and Turbografx) but better graphics. IIRC the SNES had a weaker CPU for backwards compatibility reasons which didn't end up in the system. I wonder if people complained about that in the early '90s...

It made for a very interesting generation, with Genesis getting faster multiplatform games and SNES getting better looking ones, but the original games on SNES (and Genesis) were pretty amazing.

I'm very interested in what'll happen with the Wii U vs PS3/360, and subsequently vs PS4/next Xbox.

It was an overclocked NES CPU.
 

LeleSocho

Banned
That's why i'm curious as to where they're getting the efficiency gains from to get near parity.

You know the old messiah term of the wiiu "GPGPU"? Well this is its function, it uses a part of the GPU power for CPU stuff. So even if the GPU is above ps360 level thanks to the shitty CPU the game will look just as good as the ones of the HDtwins.
 

nickcv

Member
lol @ OP's only bolded sentence. Transparency.

I'm kind of at a loss as to how the specs of this thing as they get revealed piece by piece are getting even worse. A CPU that far behind even the 360 is astounding.

But low power consumption!! Who gives a shit, you can only play the thing for three hours right now, and its not a portable.

If you're casting aspersions on the op for bolding that you should know that he didn't have the quote in there at all originally. He only put it in the OP because I suggested it. He probably bolded it so I'd notice too, so ease up! :p

yep, but seems like people didn't react well =P
not bolded anymore.

anyhow i decided not to bold any other part of the test because i think it's all worth reading.



Was never that great a magazine.

i loled
 

efyu_lemonardo

May I have a cookie?
All joking aside, here's a serious question.

Obviously it costs more time and resources to port over games or create different engines that can optimize different hardware architectures, but as a consumer it seems to me that there are still plenty of games that see release on both iphone and Android, the latter being a very heterogeneous platform.

Am I missing something?
 

Log4Girlz

Member
All joking aside, here's a serious question.

Obviously it costs more time and resources to port over games or create different engines that can optimize different hardware architectures, but as a consumer it seems to me that there are still plenty of games that see release on both iphone and Android, the latter being a very heterogeneous platform.

Am I missing something?

Despite the performance of third party ports, the Wii U is not actually a tablet.
 

zoukka

Member
All joking aside, here's a serious question.

Obviously it costs more time and resources to port over games or create different engines that can optimize different hardware architectures, but as a consumer it seems to me that there are still plenty of games that see release on both iphone and Android, the latter being a very heterogeneous platform.

Am I missing something?

Thing with Android and Apple, Android users don't like to pay for their software, so that's why you see so few titles ported in there.

And yes, the porting from android to apple is very easy.
 

Thoraxes

Member
Maybe they didn't get much for the CPU. The near-parity is in graphics, handled by the GPU.

Out of the six Pikmin, three are purple.

You know the old messiah term of the wiiu "GPGPU"? Well this is its function, it uses a part of the GPU power for CPU stuff. So even if the GPU is above ps360 level thanks to the shitty CPU the game will look just as good as the ones of the HDtwins.

Well any efficiency would stem from the more modern feature support, like Direct X 10.1.

Perfect.

All joking aside, here's a serious question.

Obviously it costs more time and resources to port over games or create different engines that can optimize different hardware architectures, but as a consumer it seems to me that there are still plenty of games that see release on both iphone and Android, the latter being a very heterogeneous platform.

Am I missing something?

Looking at the market now, there are a ton of engines that are being optimized for scalability and portability. As far as why you see more on one another though, zoukka is moreso right.
 

Hypron

Member
Surprise surprise.

THQ claims it's a money issue and tech has little to do with it.

Did you read the thing? They still clearly say the CPU is weak. Everything in software development is a money issue. In this case the source of this issue is the CPU, hence the tech.
 
A thought came to me recently. The Wii U vs PS3/360 reminds me a bit of the Super Nintendo, in that the SNES had a much weaker CPU than systems that came out years prior (Genesis and Turbografx) but better graphics. IIRC the SNES had a weaker CPU for backwards compatibility reasons which didn't end up in the system. I wonder if people complained about that in the early '90s...

It made for a very interesting generation, with Genesis getting faster multiplatform games and SNES getting better looking ones, but the original games on SNES (and Genesis) were pretty amazing.

I'm very interested in what'll happen with the Wii U vs PS3/360, and subsequently vs PS4/next Xbox.

It's like the SNES, if the SNES had a 1994 Western launch date.
 

BowieZ

Banned
Third parties need to stop the graphics circle jerk for at least one generation for their own sake, or more and more will strain themselves to death like so many before.
 

farnham

Banned
sounds like someone got a call from Nintendo

Somehow i doubt it

tHQ will go bankrupt soon anyways.. Why would they care what THQs management cares or thinks.. THQ will reach some GAFers but to be honest WiiU was finished before it launch according to GAF just like Wii
 
Did you read the thing? They still clearly say the CPU is weak. Everything in software development is a money issue. In this case the source of this issue is the CPU, hence the tech.

Okay. The CPU is weak. Case closed. They also said two other things:

The game is possible to make on Wii U

They haven't taken a proper look at its efficiency relative to the 360.

Most of the Wii U games to date from third parties have been wholesale ports from the HD twins. Who among the third parties has taken a real look at the system? They haven't even gotten there yet - most devs are still in the "will it be profitable to even develop for Wii U?" stage.
 

farnham

Banned
Did you read the thing? They still clearly say the CPU is weak. Everything in software development is a money issue. In this case the source of this issue is the CPU, hence the tech.

Yeah so THQ and EA will not support wiiu. I fail to see how thats different with the situation the wii was in
 

efyu_lemonardo

May I have a cookie?
Despite the performance of third party ports, the Wii U is not actually a tablet.

Thing with Android and Apple, Android users don't like to pay for their software, so that's why you see so few titles ported in there.

And yes, the porting from android to apple is very easy.

maybe I wasn't clear.

I own an Android, and obviously it doesn't get as much support as iPhone, but there is still reasonable support, far better than anything Wii got.
I'm not claiming Wii U is a tablet, and not talking about ports to iphone, I'm questioning the difficulty in optimizing an engine or a game on unusual hardware with a small install base.

When a game is released on Android, the developers have to optimize it for at least ten different architectures, each with their own quirks. Yet still this is fairly common.
 

Log4Girlz

Member
maybe I wasn't clear.

I own an Android, and obviously it doesn't get as much support as iPhone, but there is still reasonable support, far better than anything Wii got.
I'm not claiming Wii U is a tablet, and not talking about ports to iphone, I'm questioning the difficulty in optimizing an engine or a game on unusual hardware with a small install base.

When a game is released on Android, the developers have to optimize it for at least ten different architectures, each with their own quirks. Yet still this is fairly common.

Those games are also very graphically intensive, complicating matters.
 

Oblivion

Fetishing muscular manly men in skintight hosery
The Wii U cpu is a triple core, tweaked version of what was originally designed for the Gamecube back in '99, though the system was finally released in '01. A lot has happened since that CPU was designed.

It's based on GC architecture which I got, but comparing the ENTIRE chip to ONE CORE on the 360 is ridiculous, even for Nintendo (okay, not really, but stilll).
 

Log4Girlz

Member
It's based on GC architecture which I got, but comparing the ENTIRE chip to ONE CORE on the 360 is ridiculous, even for Nintendo (okay, not really, but stilll).

From my understanding the GC's CPU was tweaked for the Wii. The Wii U's CPU is described in developer documentation as an enhancee Wii CPU. It would not surprise me that 3 broadway chips on a 45 nm process will be smaller than a single core of the Xenon.
 

MrHicks

Banned
Every generation there is a bitch feast about Nintendo Power...
Yet, I have always had a blast on Nintendo's machines.

PROTIP

"console power" and "having a blast" arent mutually exclusive

i can have a blast in something that looks like 1995 graphics that doesn't mean it wouldn't benefit from looking better
 

LeleSocho

Banned
maybe I wasn't clear.

I own an Android, and obviously it doesn't get as much support as iPhone, but there is still reasonable support, far better than anything Wii got.
I'm not claiming Wii U is a tablet, and not talking about ports to iphone, I'm questioning the difficulty in optimizing an engine or a game on unusual hardware with a small install base.

When a game is released on Android, the developers have to optimize it for at least ten different architectures, each with their own quirks. Yet still this is fairly common.

iOS and Android games hardly push the hardware they are on so it's far more easy to port games there, the games on ps360 push the hardware to their limits so they are optimized a lot for that hardware so when a new console come out unless it's noticeably more powerful it's hard to port.
 
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