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[Lance Bone Path]

Oh God if this is true I don't even want to think about what will happen to video games as we know them.

Maybe they will stick in stock photo imagery of people to replace all the cartoon characters. Problem solved!

 

[onken]

Am I reading this right? They're not actually banning anything, just stopping selling it to children?

 

[Bebpo]

Am I reading this right? They're not actually banning anything, just stopping selling it to children?

Here is how it works:

1. This law does not target fucked up porn (aka the stuff most people in here dislike). Because those are already 18 and over and this won't affect them.

2. This law affects all games/anime/manga targeted at the mainstream. Aka, things they want to actually sell as NOT-PORN. Now if you deal with any adult subjects such as homosexuality, rape, and have things the government may consider as immoral in your game/anime/manga, it will be put in the PORN-ONLY over 18 section and thus can't be sold to a mainstream audience.

3. The result is that mainstream companies like Sega, Namco, N1, magazines like Shounen Sunday, various Shoujo magazines, lots of anime studios will purposely avoid any content that involves any of those things because they are going to be afraid to overstep the boundry and have it be labeled as over-18 only and lose all possible sales. Plus the whole "get publically shamed" thing.

Thus the result is the dirty stuff in Japan stays the same, but the public entertainment area of Japan becomes neutered in dealing with difficult subjects. Lots of stories use events like rape or homosexuality for a story purpose, and now that will get them the equivalant of the old X rating in the US.

It's a bad, bad law. Especially considering how vague it is. Which is why everyone in the entire industry of media is against it. The question now that it passed is if it can be repealed or if someone will challenge it before the courts. Though I don't really know how the Japanese court system works on challenging laws.

 

[onken]

Thanks, I also found a good Q&A on it here:

http://mainichi.jp/enta/book/news/20101216k0000m040091000c.html

 

[shintoki]

Here is how it works:

1. This law does not target fucked up porn (aka the stuff most people in here dislike). Because those are already 18 and over and this won't affect them.

2. This law affects all games/anime/manga targeted at the mainstream. Aka, things they want to actually sell as NOT-PORN. Now if you deal with any adult subjects such as homosexuality, rape, and have things the government may consider as immoral in your game/anime/manga, it will be put in the PORN-ONLY over 18 section and thus can't be sold to a mainstream audience.

3. The result is that mainstream companies like Sega, Namco, N1, magazines like Shounen Sunday, various Shoujo magazines, lots of anime studios will purposely avoid any content that involves any of those things because they are going to be afraid to overstep the boundry and have it be labeled as over-18 only and lose all possible sales. Plus the whole "get publically shamed" thing.

Shocking so many people want to leave it up to a group of 50-60 Year old Asian men to approve what material is okay and what isn't to kids. >_>

 

[Mockingbird]

if this will prevent the next gen of kids from grabbing adults' private parts and kanchoing I'm all for it.

 

[Upsidedown Fuji]

if this will prevent the next gen of kids from grabbing adults' private parts and kanchoing I'm all for it.

Unfortunately, that's a cultural thing. It's not going away.

 

[InfiniteNine]

Shocking so many people want to leave it up to a group of 50-60 Year old Asian men to approve what material is okay and what isn't to kids. >_>

Yeah, this is a pretty sad state of affairs everyone seems to be okay with because they are ignorant.

 

[Crash Station]

Oh God if this is true I don't even want to think about what will happen to video games as we know them.

I'm just interpreting this as the worst case scenario so I can breathe a sigh of relief when it's inevitably revealed to not be a big deal and/or gets fought by Shueisha or whoever. Still, we wouldn't have people going crazy over misinformation if it wasn't so damn vague.

 

[tiff]

Shocking so many people want to leave it up to a group of 50-60 Year old Asian men to approve what material is okay and what isn't to kids. >_>

I think if more people actually understood what the law is they'd be against it.

Instead they just see the word "anti-loli" or whatever and throw up their blind support.

 

[Busaiku]

Shocking so many people want to leave it up to a group of 50-60 Year old Asian men to approve what material is okay and what isn't to kids. >_>

Especially since a major proponent of this bill wrote several novels about high school girls getting drugged and raped.

 

[Dresden]

I think if more people actually understood what the law is they'd be against it.

Instead they just see the word "anti-loli" or whatever and throw up their blind support.

Yeah, it's sad.

And the real trash like Comic LO is going to be left alone, apparently, so... what's the point? This is such bullshit.

 

[Taiser]

Here is how it works:

1. This law does not target fucked up porn (aka the stuff most people in here dislike).

 

[Extollere]

Yeah, it's sad.

And the real trash like Comic LO is going to be left alone, apparently, so... what's the point? This is such bullshit.

Yes it is, but responses like this bother me almost just as much. It seems that so many people think anime porn is fucked up if it deviates from anything considered "normal". If it's got rape, tentacles, incest, minors, or any other devious depictions it's "fucked up" and shouldn't be allowed to exist. Lots of people seem to think it's fucked up for others like certain things as sexual ideas only (IE, not as actions to be performed). But isn't it more backwards to be vehemently (and emotionally) opposed to what somebody else might find sexually pleasing - especially in fictional works that harm nobody? It sounds like a bunch of ignorance to me. So what somebody else likes this or that thing? Why do people find it their business to go about proclaiming this disdain for it. Do you really care what other people get off on in their own privacy when nobody is being hurt or abused by it? Not even indirectly either. Seriously.

 

[Crash Station]

Especially since a major proponent of this bill wrote several novels about high school girls getting drugged and raped.

Yeah, this is the most fucked up part. The guy doesn't care about the "mental well-being of Japan's youth". He's just lashing out against otaku culture. By extension, even casual anime/manga/video game fans could be affected depending on just what this law means.

 

[Dresden]

Yes it is, but responses like this bother me almost just as much. It seems that so many people think anime porn is fucked up if it deviates from anything considered "normal". If it's got rape, tentacles, incest, minors, or any other devious depictions it's "fucked up" and shouldn't be allowed to exist. Lots of people seem to think it's fucked up for others like certain things as sexual ideas only (IE, not as actions to be performed). But isn't it more backwards to be vehemently (and emotionally) opposed to what somebody else might find sexually pleasing - especially in fictional works that harm nobody? It sounds like a bunch of ignorance to me. So what somebody else likes this or that thing? Why do people find it their business to go about proclaiming this disdain for it. Do you really care what other people get off on in their own privacy when nobody is being hurt or abused by it? Not even indirectly either. Seriously.

Feel free to read it if you want. But it's trash. Like you said, it's fictional--it hurts no one. But it's also fine to state one's opinion about such a thing, is it not? I'm not saying that it should be banned, I'd be against such a thing were it to happen. It just seemed odd that a morality law would actually skirt around the issue and affect a bunch of unrelated shit.

And you really need to stop being so defensive about reading loli porn.

Especially since a major proponent of this bill wrote several novels about high school girls getting drugged and raped.

:lol

 

[ixix]

Just from browsing his Wikipedia article, this Shintaro Ishihara fellow is certainly quite a character.

From denial of Japanese war crimes:

In 1990, Ishihara said in a Playboy interview that the Rape of Nanking was a fiction, claiming, "People say that the Japanese made a holocaust but that is not true. It is a story made up by the Chinese. It has tarnished the image of Japan, but it is a lie."

To some unique views regarding the role of women in society:

Ishihara said in a 2001 interview with women's magazine Shukan Josei that he believed "old women who live after they have lost their reproductive function are useless and are committing a sin," adding that he "couldn't say this as a politician."

To the previously mentioned distaste for homosexuality:

In 2000, Ishihara, one of the eight judges for a literary prize, commented that homosexuality is abnormal.

To... I'm not even sure what to call this, actually. An assault on the Académie française?

During an inauguration of a university building in 2004, Ishihara stated that French is unqualified as an international language because it is "a language in which nobody can count," referring to the counting system in French, which he believed to be based on units of twenty rather than ten (as is the case in Japanese and English).

So the law's chief backer is a xenophobic crazy man. But if we give him broad authority to declare material to be obscene, it may negatively impact in some vague, non-specific way some things that I find icky. This is therefore a totally rational course of action.

Plus, there's totally a picture of him with Yukio Mishima! Swoon! Censor on, you crazy ultra-nationalist diamond!

 

[Crash Station]

To some unique views regarding the role of women in society:

The French thing makes less sense, but this is such an extreme view based on stupidity that it's hilarious :lol :lol :lol . The fact this guy has any kind of power is really fuckin ridiculous.

 

[BudokaiMR2]

Unfortunately I can't see anything happening to change this law unless the industry really puts it weight behind some kind of movement.

The political climate in Japan has to be one of the most apathetic ones in the world. The young people for the most part have gotten spoiled and lazy if they aren't over-worked to the point of collapse.

Me and my friend were talking about stuff like this last night and no matter how 'democratic' japan seems it is pretty far from any Western idea of democracy, especially among the populace.

I can't condone it but the biggest contract I can see is the recent riots in France. Shutting down the whole country because of raising the retirement age two years?

That shit would go through and be implemented before half the Japanese populace even realized it.

 

[Extollere]

Feel free to read it if you want. But it's trash. Like you said, it's fictional--it hurts no one. But it's also fine to state one's opinion about such a thing, is it not? I'm not saying that it should be banned, I'd be against such a thing were it to happen. It just seemed odd that a morality law would actually skirt around the issue and affect a bunch of unrelated shit.

And you really need to stop being so defensive about reading loli porn.

My comment wasn't entirely directed towards you. It was more about the A) misunderstandings people have about certain types of pornography - and their cause, or lack thereof on society, and B) the emotional response that people bring to the table as arguments. It isn't so much that I care what somebody says about anything; rather it's the pretext under which most debate happens concerning anything of sexual interest.

If this is a morality law, it isn't skirting around the issue of pornography. Pornography (we are talking explicit content) is intended for adults - it is sold to adults. This bill concerns the sale of controversial subjects (that while may include topics of sex, are not explicit) being sold to minors. Nobody is regulating porn any further than it is because it is intended to be sold to individuals who can prove their age.

Lastly, I won't be defensive about reading anything. I have a huge interest in Japanese illustration and art styles, and by now I have seen my fair share of everything in the book. Nothing that is fictional bothers me. In fact, I'm not even sure how somebody could be bothered by drawings on paper.

 

[Bebpo]

Look, I agree with you 100%. I have no problem with people who read their comic LO or whatever. Either for the art from an artistic perspective or simply because it's their fetish. Everyone has fetishes, whatever gets someone off has no effect on me. I like red heads /shrug.

But I was trying to make the point right off the bat that this law has nothing to do with that stuff and therefore the thread and arguments shouldn't be derailed about adult erotic entertainment and what people's views are concerning it.

 

[Extollere]

But I was trying to make the point right off the bat that this law has nothing to do with that stuff and therefore the thread and arguments shouldn't be derailed about adult erotic entertainment and what people's views are concerning it.

I'm totally on page with you, and I'm gonna step back now and leave at what I've already said. I think it's easy to go off topic with issues like this because of the hyperbole surrounding them "They're gonna ban this", "they're going to ban that!" etc... It's easy to take one or two comments somebody makes and extrapolate them into new arguments, so my bad if I contributed to some derailment there.

 

[Crash Station]

I think a mod should put in big bold letters this isn't about loli porn or anything like that in the OP so we can stop talking about what this law isn't about. Either that or link/quote post #203.

 

[shintoki]

I think a mod should put in big bold letters this isn't about loli porn or anything like that in the OP so we can stop talking about what this law isn't about. Either that or link/quote post #203.

Makes for one hell of a great social experiment. About being researched over political topics, to just bloody reading the articles and noting several words which don't seem to refer to "LoL Loli Ban" at all.

 

[Trent Strong]

Looks like no season 2 for Oreimo.

 

[Bebpo]

Looks like no season 2 for Oreimo.

haha, yeah. It makes a good joke, but this is the stuff that's really at risk here. Which is interesting because it creates a huge tension since Oreimo is a really popular show right now that's making tons of money and on the cover of all the magazines. But it deals with A) minors in B) sexual situations and C) features various themes that are "immoral" like

Spoiler

incest

. It seems a prime candidate to be hit by the law and taken off the air, which would make the entertainment producers really mad since it's such a success. The question is if the government will really enforce it and if the producers will take the dare and make something they know is in likely violation of the law to test if the government will enforce it.

Just off the top of my head of how this law could affect things I actually enjoy, I could easily see manga like Berserk and Gantz being in violation of this law.

 

[Enron]

icecream are you ok

POST IF YOURE OK

 

[Crash Station]

Just off the top of my head of how this law could affect things I actually enjoy, I could easily see manga like Berserk and Gantz being in violation of this law.

Can seinen magazines be sold to minors? Is it a similar situation to M rated games in the US where they're in plain view but can't be sold to anyone not of age?

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

icecream are you ok

POST IF YOURE OK

Can someone explain all the icecream references?

 

[Trent Strong]

haha, yeah. It makes a good joke, but this is the stuff that's really at risk here. Which is interesting because it creates a huge tension since Oreimo is a really popular show right now that's making tons of money and on the cover of all the magazines. But it deals with A) minors in B) sexual situations and C) features various themes that are "immoral" like

Spoiler

incest

. It seems a prime candidate to be hit by the law and taken off the air, which would make the entertainment producers really mad since it's such a success. The question is if the government will really enforce it and if the producers will take the dare and make something they know is in likely violation of the law to test if the government will enforce it.

Just off the top of my head of how this law could affect things I actually enjoy, I could easily see manga like Berserk and Gantz being in violation of this law.

Yep. There really could be some good stuff at risk.

 

[IrrelevantNotch]

Assuming that they have appropriate laws against it's production as well, I don't see anything wrong with that. Simple possession of material shouldn't be something you can be charged for.

I hear the reason possession isn't illegal is because it allows the Yakuza to still make a buck off of distributing it illegaly. If I recall correctly, Japan only banned distribution due to global pressure, and that was in the 90s.

 

[Crash Station]

Can someone explain all the icecream references?

She's a poster that makes threads about loli adventure/visual novel games (really, just anime ADV games in general). But again, this thread isn't about that...

 

[Busaiku]

You know, if this means no Hourou Musuko, I will kill someone.

 

[flawfuls]

She's a poster that makes threads about loli adventure/visual novel games (really, just anime ADV games in general). But again, this thread isn't about that...

She?

 

[Crash Station]

You know, if this means no Hourou Musuko, I will kill someone.

The anime should be done by the time the law goes into effect. Manga most likely won't be though unless the author speeds things up.

 

[Regulus Tera]

During an inauguration of a university building in 2004, Ishihara stated that French is unqualified as an international language because it is "a language in which nobody can count," referring to the counting system in French, which he believed to be based on units of twenty rather than ten (as is the case in Japanese and English).

There's stupid and there's stupid...

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

There's stupid and there's stupid...

People are only learning he's a racist moron now, this stuff's been common knowledge for a long time.

I prefer Aso and his Pro-Jewish policies.

 

[K.Sabot]

She?

It begins anew.

 

[Dreamgazer]

The icecream is mine!

You know, if this means no Hourou Musuko, I will kill someone.

Hourou musuko doesn't really have anything sexual...although I guess it would fall under the "inhibit the proper growth of youth" part.

(then again one could argue that it's a good thing for kids to explore and accept their sexual identities..)

Looks like no season 2 for Oreimo.

Look on the bright side...once oreimo becomes adult material, then they can really explore "new frontiers" *cough* >.>

 

[Salsa]

Hope this leads to more interesting japanese games instead of the usual boob jiggle game.

That is if im understanding this correctly.

 

[Cartman86]

Law is stupid.

 

[Desi]

Hope this leads to more interesting japanese games instead of the usual boob jiggle game.

That is if im understanding this correctly.

?? Like that wasn't interesting enough. Don't really feel as if that is hampering their creativity.

 

[big_z]

This law might not be that bad since it could reduce tasteless tripe but it'll depend on how it's regulated. If it starts to affect legitament media then there will be problems.

They really need to regulate all the Loli and fucked up shit they still allow though.

 

[smurfx]

omg they better not start censoring one piece. especially now that there is actual people being killed.

 

[Extollere]

...once oreimo becomes adult material, then they can really explore "new frontiers" *cough* >.>

It already is

Spoiler

if you know where to look...

 

[Dreamgazer]

It already is

Spoiler

if you know where to look...

I mean an official one..like what they did with the Princess Lover OVA:lol

 

[Mik2121]

This is pretty fucked up actually. There's a Tokyo Anime Festa where A LOT of the attending anime and manga series have decided to boycott the event by not showing up there because of this. That includes stuff like Dragon Ball, Bleach, Naruto, One Piece, Doraemon (wtf!? oh well), and tons of other big ones.

And now with the Japanese companies not being able to make stuff like this, even more Korean and Chinese anime will be sent to foreign countries and Japanese anime will sell even less. It's like Japan wants to completely kill their own anime.


Edit - This is the poster for the TAF 2011 and all the series boycotting it because of this law:

> > >

Edit 2 - Tried to make it easier to understand.

 

[Crash Station]

This is pretty fucked up actually. There's a Tokyo Anime Festa where A LOT of the attending anime and manga series have been cancelled because of this. That includes stuff like Dragon Ball, Bleach, Naruto, One Piece, Doraemon (wtf!? oh well), and tons of other big ones.

And now with the Japanese companies not being able to make stuff like this, even more Korean and Chinese anime will be sent to foreign countries and Japanese anime will sell even less. It's like Japan wants to completely kill their own anime.

Are you fuckin kidding me? This isn't just some boycott by Toei?

Even for those unaffected in terms of interests, this could fuck up the whole economy.

 

[Mik2121]

Are you fuckin kidding me? This isn't just some boycott by Toei?

Even for those unaffected in terms of interests, this could fuck up the whole economy.

Check my edit.

 

[Dreamgazer]

This is pretty fucked up actually. There's a Tokyo Anime Festa where A LOT of the attending anime and manga series have been cancelled because of this. That includes stuff like Dragon Ball, Bleach, Naruto, One Piece, Doraemon (wtf!? oh well), and tons of other big ones.

And now with the Japanese companies not being able to make stuff like this, even more Korean and Chinese anime will be sent to foreign countries and Japanese anime will sell even less. It's like Japan wants to completely kill their own anime.

....
[Edit: adjusted due to your edit]
1)Tokyo Anime Festa is already over. You're talking about next year's...nm You're talking about Jump Festa which is taking place right now. Even then nothing is will/be canceled....because

2)This new law won't actually be enforced till next year and....

3)How can you cancel something is already over (Dragon Ball). The law also has nothing to do with canceling anything. March is still a long way to go.

4)Korean maybe, Chinese animators still have a long way to go in terms of stuff other than art.

5)This just Tokyo, not anything national.

so...WTH ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT