Support NeoGAF

[derFeef]

LOL! I need my 5 hour energy!

But like I said, Underworld's biggest letdown was the shooting. So I say just copy Uncharted and we got ourselves a excellent Tomb Raider game!

Yes the shooting was poor, but I do not agree with the other part of your post, not a single bit. Luckily it sounds like CD does their own thing.

 

[Stallion Free]

So I say just copy Uncharted and we got ourselves a excellent Tomb Raider game!

Or we could just drop combat all together because that's not what Tomb Raider is about.

 

[TheFLYINGManga_Ka]

Or we could just drop combat all together because that's not what Tomb Raider is about.

But IF they were to include shooting and combat (which I'm sure they will) I just hope CD makes it better this time.

 

[Salaadin]

Free aim was used in TR:Underworld to solve at least one puzzle. It doesnt necessarily mean a combat focus.

For the poster above me...

Funnily enough within the last month I've (re)played both Uncharted 2 and Underworld and although there are rather obvious differences, the biggest one being control...in underworld, I always felt like I was fighting the controls...I'd die for taking a minor step in the wrong direction and it felt a bit laggy as button presses would cancel out if you pressed them too quickly.

I hope they give the controls a lot of attention...it'll need it to compare to Uncharted.

I felt this way too. There were also a few occasions where Lara didnt animate a backwards jump or sideways shimmy jump. I would literally hold back on the analog stick and she didnt act as if she was ready jump backwards. Id try it anyways and she'd still make the jump but I dont like having that uncertainty. It lacked the polish in that sense.

One thing about Uncharted is that sometimes it feels like Drake is glued to the wall. Its practically impossible to fall down or miss a jump unless you physically push the "drop" button. This works fine for Uncharted but in Tomb Raider, I think id like the risk of having to be a bit more precise in my jumps.

 

[Stallion Free]

But IF they were to include shooting and combat (which I'm sure they will) I just hope CD makes it better this time.

Should they include clown cars of enemies too?

 

[Evolved1]

But IF they were to include shooting and combat (which I'm sure they will) I just hope CD makes it better this time.

The only comments they're really made is that it'll be more grounded in reality and have some weight to it.

Though that last part was more about the animation in general, but it seems to be a design theme if the GI article is anything to go by.

We'll see...

Should they include clown cars of enemies too?

No I think the stupid fucking spiders would be better... or the bats that appear out of thin air one at a time over and over. I don't want tomb raider to be about combat--it's not Uncharted--but nothing can be worse than Underworld shooting mechanics and enemies.

 

[szaromir]

I hope their won't be any cover system. I hate it, but it seems to be all the rage nowadays. I wonder when will game designers notice that the most popular shooters do not employ cover mechanics (Call of Duty, Halo, L4D) - there must be some reason behind that. And while TR is not a shooter, I'd think it would do better by not employing the tired cover mechanic.

 

[Stallion Free]

One thing about Uncharted is that sometimes it feels like Drake is glued to the wall. Its practically impossible to fall down or miss a jump unless you physically push the "drop" button. This works fine for Uncharted but in Tomb Raider, I think id like the risk of having to be a bit more precise in my jumps.

And why can't people understand this?

 

[tass0]

Sounds like all the typical junk devs like to put up like they're so amazing and innovative but fails miserably in the end.

- Lara is 21 in this game
Um, okay.

- It's not only a reboot of the franchise but a reboot of the entire brand. As a result there will be no "real" Lara model this time.
What does this even mean? The outfit?

- They're doing performance capturing with this game
I thought they did this with all of them.

- There are brutal deaths in the game this time. One is described as a deranged man stabbing Lara in the chest and then closing her eyes after she's dead. Another includes a boulder falling on her leg to trap her before another falls and crushes her head.
Lame, and reflecting poor focus/priorities on the part of the developer.

- CD won't talk specifics on weapons but concept art shows a bow, shotgun and pistol
- The lock on targeting system is gone and it now has a free aim system. CD says that it can compete with any of their competitors.
If it can really deliver, great. However, there was a reason for it in TR games. The mobility of movement and use of environment was the reason for lock on. To make a free aim system really work, it would seem like they have to change the way movement works in general. Basically towards a more realistic approach, which also implies cover tactics, which is really boring to me. I never wanted a Tomb Raider in a traditional action game style, so hopefully they can innovate for real.

- "I think that the major difference between this game and the old is the concept of smoke and mirrors," begins Darrell Gallagher, the studio head at Crystal Dynamics. "There was an illusion of freedom because of streaming and loading that would pop you out in a different location, but this is absolutely real. You can literally go any direction that you see and carve your own way to the finish line instead of being guided."
I can't remember how many times I've been told this. Same old Far Cry boring-ass flat open world type of bullshit is what it sounds like. If they can truly do this then that is great, but I reeeeaaaaaally doubt it.

- "It was important in the game to not only deliver the character arc of Lara Croft emotionally, but to deliver it in gameplay as well so the player gets to grow into a hardened survivor," says experienced director Noah Hughes. As the game unfolds, Lara will scavenge new tools and gear that augment her abilities. Lara's athletic prowess will also evolve. Some areas begin inaccessible due to physical limitations or scarce supplies. With the right skills and gear, however, the island is Lara's for the taking.
So basically they're admitting that they failed on the previous point about the level design. I hate it when games have some stupid arbitrary "learn new moves" and "make new tools" shit. Never in the history of videogames has it worked out for the best. Yes, not even in Metroid. I hate really this shit.

- There are base camps in the game. Here you can combine items to create something new and access a skill system to upgrade Lara's abilities. You'll also be able to use base camps to fast travel to different locations to minimize backtracking.
UGH. As I was saying before, this crap only reveals failure of good level design and game structure. I can pretty much guarantee this game is going to be terribly boring and feel like a series of chores to work through a gauntlet of arbitrary shit.

- You'll need to gather food and water in order to survive
UUUUUGH

- There are humans in the game, including some of the crew members from the shipwreck off the coast of the island.
Whatever.

:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol

Typical GAFer.

This reminds me, GAF doesn't play games. :lol

I hope their won't be any cover system. I hate it, but it seems to be all the rage nowadays. I wonder when will game designers notice that the most popular shooters do not employ cover mechanics (Call of Duty, Halo, L4D) - there must be some reason behind that. And while TR is not a shooter, I'd think it would do better by not employing the tired cover mechanic.

Because all those games are FPS'.

 

[Discotheque]

that the most popular shooters do not employ cover mechanics (Call of Duty, Halo, L4D) - there must be some reason behind that.

Yeah....they're FPS games. Cover systems aren't really necessary.

 

[Evolved1]

I hope their won't be any cover system. I hate it, but it seems to be all the rage nowadays. I wonder when will game designers notice that the most popular shooters do not employ cover mechanics (Call of Duty, Halo, L4D) - there must be some reason behind that. And while TR is not a shooter, I'd think it would do better by not employing the tired cover mechanic.

What game with a cover system forces you to use it? In almost every case you can ignore the feature completely, if you were so inclined.

 

[szaromir]

Yeah....they're FPS games. Cover systems aren't really necessary.

I edited my message. Sadly, even some FPS games add cover systems - R6 Vegas, Deus Ex, Brother in Arms, Killzone 2 (although this one did it somewhat better). Either way, I don't want any cover mechanic in TR, it's just tired and boring.

What game with a cover system forces you to use it? In almost every case you can ignore the feature completely, if you were so inclined.

Not really as enemies are usually bullet sponges.

 

[erpg]

But IF they were to include shooting and combat (which I'm sure they will) I just hope CD makes it better this time.

Go away. Please. Please don't talk about Uncharted. You're bringing up fresh emotional trauma.

What game with a cover system forces you to use it? In almost every case you can ignore the feature completely, if you were so inclined.

Show me how to play through Uncharted 1 without cover on normal.

 

[TheFLYINGManga_Ka]

I don't want tomb raider to be about combat--it's not Uncharted--but nothing can be worse than Underworld shooting mechanics and enemies.

Which is all I'm saying.

It doesn't have to be Uncharted.

I just want good shooting in the next Tomb Raider game.

 

[Stallion Free]

What game with a cover system forces you to use it? In almost every case you can ignore the feature completely, if you were so inclined.

Are you fucking serious? Cover-system means that the environments are coated with arbitrary bullshit for you to hide behind. It also extends the combat sequences.

Tomb Raider needs neither of those things.

 

[szaromir]

Yeah, but shooting was like 5% of TRU, annoying but insignificant. In Uncharted you shoot much much more than that.

 

[TheFLYINGManga_Ka]

Yeah, but shooting was like 5% of TRU, annoying but insignificant. In Uncharted you shoot much much more than that.

Yeah, I don't want a combat-heavy TR game either.

The platforming and environmental puzzles is great in TR Underworld and especially Anniversary.

Good shooting will be sweet icing on the cake.

 

[Evolved1]

Are you fucking serious? Cover-system means that the environments are coated with arbitrary bullshit for you to hide behind. It also extends the combat sequences.

With a few egregious exceptions, this is a load of horseshit...

 

[Confusion Illusion]

It's a survival/adventure, you're on some mysterious island. The combat system should be whatever the hell you have(bow, machete, fire) are your weapons. No running around guns a blazing.

 

[.la1n]

Yeah....they're FPS games. Cover systems aren't really necessary.

but but Killzone....wahhhhhhhh

 

[Stallion Free]

With a few egregious exceptions, this is a load of horseshit...

Really?

 

[I <3 Memes]

What game with a cover system forces you to use it? In almost every case you can ignore the feature completely, if you were so inclined.

Mass Effect 2. They took away the crouch button so you dont really have any choice anymore.

 

[TripOpt55]

I don't think anyone really wants combat to be more of a focus in TR. Just that what little combat we get, we'd like to be better than what was in Underworld. How they should do that I'm not quite sure. I think ditching the lock-on has to be a step in the right direction.

 

[StuBurns]

Please God, let the PS3 version of this game be awesome...

Yeah, I hope so too, the PS3 version of Underworld was okay, but I played the 360 version for a bit and the performance was a lot smoother generally, and it has motion blur smoothing it further, very creamy movement. The PS3 version I believe it a little better in terms of IQ, but I think most people would agree performance is a lot more important, I hope this time around any compromises are made at the cost of the IQ as appose to framerate or additional features such as motion blur.

 

[Totobeni]

Yeah, I hope so too, the PS3 version of Underworld was okay, but I played the 360 version for a bit and the performance was a lot smoother generally, and it has motion blur smoothing it further, very creamy movement. The PS3 version I believe it a little better in terms of IQ, but I think most people would agree performance is a lot more important, I hope this time around any compromises are made at the cost of the IQ as appose to framerate or additional features such as motion blur.

yup , PS3 version's native resolution was 720p , 360 version ( lead sku) was 576p

 

[dark10x]

Yes, Uncharted was the first game to develop free-aim, so it will basically be like that.

You know, when someone is drawing a comparison between one game and another, the game used in the comparison need not be the first in which a certain feature appeared for the comparison to be valid.

Saying "Oh, so like Uncharted?" does not imply that Uncharted was somehow the first game to deliver the feature in question.

 

[marathonfool]

Obviously a bunch of people who never played the TR franchise jumping aboard and asking them to x-copy Uncharted. Tomb Raider is not about shooting. The only things Tomb Raider should copy from Uncharted are the graphical fidelity and cinematic standards.

 

[Zen]

They shouldn't X-copy Uncharted, but as someone who has played the franchise, having Uncharted like aiming/cover and shooting oriented segments (with a far bigger focus on exploration, traversal, and the like), seems awesome to me.

I move that this bit of information be included in the OP:

According to the writer of the GI article, "the people who made Advent Children are working on Tomb Raider's cutscenes."

So I'm assuming that climactic moments in the game will get the CGI treatment a la old-school games, while the less important ones will get the usual in-game cutscenes. Either way, good news for me.

This game keeps sounding better and better.

 

[Skilletor]

Ugh. Uncharted talk. I hate what that game has done to threads I read.

I dislike Uncharted and do not wish for Tomb Raider to play similarly.

 

[SolidSnakex]

For all of you peeps who received your copy of #GameInformer today, those are not renders, they are ACTUAL in-game screens. #forreals

http://twitter.com/CrystalDKarl/status/12392847244271616

 

[dreamfall]

I wish combat just wasn't involved. An open world, adventure platforming game- no half- hearted shooting mechanics!

 

[Salaadin]

With a few egregious exceptions, this is a load of horseshit...

He kinda has a point. In most cover system games Ive played (Kill.Switch, Gears 1&2, Uncharted 1&2, KZ2), most areas are riddled with boxes, waist high walls, and broken rubble to hide behind. In fact, you can probably tell which areas have large shootouts and which areas do not simply by the way an it looks.

 

[vazel]

I love how people are agreeing that the TR games aren't about combat but they would still like an Uncharted system for the shooting segments it does have. Anyone that's actually played the TR games knows the games don't have enough shooting to justify an Uncharted-like cover system. I do not want to enter an area riddled with cover spots in a TR game that would mean I have to bunker down for a long while taking down 2-3 waves of enemies.

 

[StuBurns]

I love how people are agreeing that the TR games aren't about combat but they would still like an Uncharted system for the shooting segments it does have. Anyone that's actually played the TR games knows the games don't have enough shooting to justify an Uncharted-like cover system. I do not want to enter an area riddled with cover spots in a TR game that would mean I have to bunker down for a long while taking down 2-3 waves of enemies.

But it has enough to warrant the current dog shit lock on?

If there's combat, it should be good, it hasn't been so far.

yup , PS3 version's native resolution was 720p , 360 version ( lead sku) was 576p

That's quite a lot lower, still, I think it looked nice enough, neither versions were all that pretty.

 

[dark_chris]

This game keeps sounding better and better.

I have a bad feeling about that. I hope it doesn't take forever to release the game then. :lol :lol

 

[I NEED SCISSORS]

And the Square Enix buyout gets better and better. Truly the greatest acquisition in gaming history.

 

[StuBurns]

And the Square Enix buyout gets better and better. Truly the greatest acquisition in gaming history.

I hope the boost in quality results in boosts in profit too though, otherwise they'll probably do the EA thing of going all out then backtracking to mediocrity.

 

[.GqueB.]

And why can't people understand this?

Because people are dumb.

Ive always thought that the platforming in Tomb Raider games was vastly superior. I feel like I have to figure out how to traverse the areas. In Uncharted, it always felt like these locations were built just so Nathan could climb around them. Very bizarre.

 

[szaromir]

But it has enough to warrant the current dog shit lock on?

If there's combat, it should be good, it hasn't been so far.

Cover systems are crap, I absolutely despise them. :/ I'll have to deal with them in Deus Ex, I don't think I'll be able to take anymore.

 

[Fimbulvetr]

So I say just copy Uncharted and we got ourselves a excellent Tomb Raider game!

Someone should call Mikami and tell him that Uncharted is the real inventor of over-the-shoulder TPS aiming.

I mean what is RE4 anyway? Is that a PC game?

 

[I NEED SCISSORS]

Someone should call Mikami and tell him that Uncharted is the real inventor of over-the-shoulder TPS aiming.

I mean what is RE4 anyway? Is that a PC game?

There were games with over the shoulder aiming long before Resi 4.

And cover systems were around at least 2 years before Gears.

 

[marathonfool]

Since they're going with a free aim system. They need to look at RE4/5 and Dead Space instead of a cover shooter like Uncharted. Especially in a survival/horror theme, hiding behind cover is probably the worst choice in terms of enemy engagement. It needs to be close combat.

I hope they keep all the Lara acrobatics like the flipping and dodges. I have feeling all of it will be lost in name of realism and inexperience. My ideal combat would be close combat free aim with limb damage. A melee attack mechanic based on the items she currently possesses. No enemy encounters numbering more than four enemies at a time. The battles should be strategic and not purely twitched based.

 

[StuBurns]

There were games with over the shoulder aiming long before Resi 4.

And cover systems were around at least 2 years before Gears.

Operation Winback had it in 1999.

 

[I NEED SCISSORS]

Operation Winback had it in 1999.

That's why I said at least - the one people always think about is Kill.Switch.

Red Dead Revolver did it as well in 2004 (as well as over-the-shoulder precision aiming and quick drawing).

 

[SolidSnakex]

I hope they keep all the Lara acrobatics like the flipping and dodges. I have feeling all of it will be lost in name of realism and inexperience.

I wouldn't expect her to be like the old Lara in terms of acrobatics, at least not initially. They say that her abilities will evolve over the course of the game, so by the end she could be like she's been in the previous games.

 

[Mr_Zombie]

Why do people even argue whether or not Tomb Raider should have a cover system? Cover system is useful only when the enemy throws projectiles at you and that usually means enemies with guns; and I'd rather not have men with guns in my Tomb Raider game.

 

[StuBurns]

That's why I said at least - the one people always think about is Kill.Switch.

Red Dead Revolver did it as well in 2004 (as well as over-the-shoulder precision aiming and quick drawing).

That was meant to read as additive as appose to corrective. I don't remember the over the shoulder aiming in RDR, or any game before RE4 actually. I think what RE4 really did was change the focus of third person shooters from shooting as fast as possible to as accurate as possible, by requiring headshots mostly, sometimes arms etc depending on the instance. One thing I don't like about the 'superior' Wii version is it takes away that tension. The whole gameplay of RE4 was that tension of being accurate under pressure, something significantly hurt by the Wii controls.

 

[Fimbulvetr]

There were games with over the shoulder aiming long before Resi 4.

And cover systems were around at least 2 years before Gears.

That's even better.

Let's find out who made those and tell them that Uncharted beat them to it.

 

[Salaadin]

Why do people even argue whether or not Tomb Raider should have a cover system? Cover system is useful only when the enemy throws projectiles at you and that usually means enemies with guns; and I'd rather not have men with guns in my Tomb Raider game.

I feel the same way. TR1 was the best in terms of enemies you had to fight. Random animals, dinosaurs, and the occasional Natla henchman. It couldve done without the henchman but it is what it is. Later TR games started to feel weird with the human killings and whatnot. Underworld didnt have too much of it but still more than I prefer.

 

[macfoshizzle]

i would like to see some screenshots