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[PhatSaqs]

Ahh, I wasn't lurking too many forums when that happened...

So this is just the usual dev left nintendo and now they suck backlash? Even though many considered SK an asset to nintendo before they left.

Edit: No biggie though, too many agendas around here.

The fact that it happens in every single thread about these particular developers is pretty telling.

 

[Hitler Stole My Potato]

Yeah, but people bitch about every game here, that's not surprising. It's the persistant bashing of SK well beyond other developers who have put out much worse games that is telling I think. The move of SK from Nintendo to MS is behind some of the aggressive hatred, if you think things would be the same here is Too Human was being made for Rev, you're kidding yourself. I'm not saying people don't have legitimate issues with the company, but there are plenty of others who simply won't even let this game get off the ground w/o bashing it because of their obvious agendas

Bingo Ringo.

 

[BudokaiMR2]

Yeah, but people bitch about every game here, that's not surprising. It's the persistant bashing of SK well beyond other developers who have put out much worse games that is telling I think. The move of SK from Nintendo to MS is behind some of the aggressive hatred, if you think things would be the same here is Too Human was being made for Rev, you're kidding yourself. I'm not saying people don't have legitimate issues with the company, but there are plenty of others who simply won't even let this game get off the ground w/o bashing it because of their obvious agendas

It all comes around full circle anyway. If Bungie left MS to make a FPS for the Revolution, can you imagine the shitstorm?

Spoiler

I know it is implausible, but hell you could have said the same thing of SK in 2002<points to above quotes>

Oh and as I said I am looking forward to the game but I am somewhat skeptical still. The fact that he feels the needs to drop so many names worries me. His game should be able to stand up on it's own.

 

[human5892]

If the control scheme is anything like Death By Fucking Shitty Nonsense, count me the fuck out. What a terrible idea that was.

 

[MrSardonic]

i recall that dyack once said that kojima was like socrates while miyamoto was like aristotle. i think it's reasonable to assume that he hasn't read shakespeare either.

:lol :lol :lol oh yeah that was classic. Perhaps he now thinks that Miyamoto & Iwata are Marx & Engels, while he is Durkheim :lol

Spoiler

PS I think that some people forget that what Dyack says contributes to a lot of the backlash rather than what system the games are developed for. If Peter Molyneux said the kind of stuff Denis Dyack does then I wouldn't be surprised if he got the same treatment

 

[AdmiralViscen]

If more developers spewed the nonsense Dyack does, you'd see reactions like this for more games.

I have a good example. Black. It happened with Black, and that has nothing to do with Nintendo. It also happens with Jaffe.

 

[SolidSnakex]

Yeah, but people bitch about every game here, that's not surprising. It's the persistant bashing of SK well beyond other developers who have put out much worse games that is telling I think. The move of SK from Nintendo to MS is behind some of the aggressive hatred, if you think things would be the same here is Too Human was being made for Rev, you're kidding yourself.

They've been bashed here for a long time, even when they were part of Nintendo. It's went up since them but its not like it jsut started or anything. I think most companies with a very vocal leader tend to get alot of hate. You can look at Itagaki, Kenji Eno, or Dave Perry for examples of that.

 

[Teknopathetic]

"SK hasn't done anything worthy, ED included"


Have you ever heard of Blood Omen: Legacy of Kain?

 

[Gigglepoo]

Silicon Knights has always been getting flack. I worked for Xengamers in 2002 and wrote a preview for ED after playing it at E3. If anyone remembers, the E3 build was horrible. Simply awful. I said it sucked and got tons of hate mail from people telling me Dyack held stuff out so other developers wouldn't copy his idea.

Anyway, I ended up reviewing the final build a few weeks later, gave it a good score, and got even more hate mail from people because they said the game sucked and I didn't know what I was talking about. So, um, I think people have always had it out for SK. They promise more than they deliver. Nintendo fans were willing to defend their honor before a title was released, but were ultimately disapointed when the final game came out.

Rare, on the other hand, still baffles me. I don't understand the hate...

 

[AdmiralViscen]

Silicon Knights has always been getting flack. I worked for Xengamers in 2002 and wrote a preview for ED after playing it at E3. If anyone remembers, the E3 build was horrible. Simply awful. I said it sucked and got tons of hate mail from people telling me Dyack held stuff out so other developers wouldn't copy his idea.

Anyway, I ended up reviewing the final build a few weeks later, gave it a good score, and got even more hate mail from people because they said the game sucked and I didn't know what I was talking about. So, um, I think people have always had it out for SK. They promise more than they deliver. Nintendo fans were willing to defend their honor before a title was released, but were ultimately disapointed when the final game came out.

Thanks for the extra info. It seems that the people making the Nfan-hate claims have disappeared.

Rare, on the other hand, still baffles me. I don't understand the hate...

Not to mention the massive disappointments that were SFA and PD0, and the lesser disappointment that was Kameo. That's all we got for a 4 year span of time.

Oh, and a port of an N64 game with stuff removed.

 

[koam]

title change = accurate

 

[PhoenixDark]

80 million dollars? Is that true..?

If so...this game is not going to make MS any monies

 

[Hitler Stole My Potato]

Thanks for the extra info. It seems that the people making the Nfan-hate claims have disappeared.

If you don't think the SK-MS connection has anything to do with SOME people's reactions around here to Too Human and SK in general, you're deluding yourself. Sure games like ED and MGS: TS had a lot of detractors around here but they also had just as many fans as well - myself included. But the shit really started to hit the fan a couple years back when SK and Nintendo split.

Again, I'm not saying everyone doesn't have legitimate reasons for not liking these games or the company but I think the GAF vitriol would be exponentially lessened if they remained a Nintendo 2nd party.

Fun game.

 

[GitarooMan]

If you don't think the SK-MS connection has anything to do with SOME people's reactions around here to Too Human and SK in general, you're deluding yourself. Sure games like ED and MGS: TS had a lot of detractors around here but they also had just as many fans as well - myself included. But the shit really started to hit the fan a couple years back when SK and Nintendo split.

True, I'll say it again, if we had seen this kind of puff piece for Too Human on the Rev, the backlash would be a fraction of this and there would be a hell of a lot more circle-jerking. I doubt there were a lot of people in the Red Steel thread saying, "Man remember how much XIII sucked in 2003 when it was done by Ubisoft Paris....this game will suck also" Note: I don't think XIII actually sucked.

 

[GhaleonEB]

Wait a sec - no camera controls? Oh shit.

 

[JJConrad]

If you don't think the SK-MS connection has anything to do with SOME people's reactions around here to Too Human and SK in general, you're deluding yourself. Sure games like ED and MGS: TS had a lot of detractors around here but they also had just as many fans as well - myself included. But the shit really started to hit the fan a couple years back when SK and Nintendo split.

Again, I'm not saying everyone doesn't have legitimate reasons for not liking these games or the company but I think the GAF vitriol would be exponentially lessened if they remained a Nintendo 2nd party.

I was very active in the old ED and MGS threads. This thread is nothing compared to the threads that followed his interviews while with Nintendo. People made fun of every aspect of his games, his quotes, his weight, his nationality, his hair... Even the Nintendo base was split on SK. There were those who hated his games and those who liked them but thought Dennis should just shut up. EVERY SINGlE SK THREAD WAS LIKE THIS, GOING BACK TO BEFORE ED, LONG BEFORE THE SPLIT. A few people here may be ragging on this because they're bitter but don't fool yourself that that is the main reason.

Went to MS because Nintendo wants to make smaller, simpler games and MS understands big buget extravaganzas.

Dennis has said similar things in the past but what I can't figure out is ... if this is true, then why was his game split into three games and made with on pre-fab'd engine. Sounds like nobody really wanted his big budget extravaganzas.

 

[Hitler Stole My Potato]

I was very active in the old ED and MGS threads. This thread is nothing compared to the threads that followed his interviews while with Nintendo. People made fun of every aspect of his games, his quotes, his weight, his nationality, his hair... Even the Nintendo base was split on SK. There were those who hated his games and those who liked them but thought Dennis should just shut up. EVERY SINGlE SK THREAD WAS LIKE THIS, GOING BACK TO BEFORE ED, LONG BEFORE THE SPLIT. A few people here may be ragging on this because they're bitter but don't fool yourself that that is the main reason.

I'm not saying it's the main reason but it's there none the less.

 

[Shiggy]

Wait a sec - no camera controls? Oh shit.

This is my main complaint in ED (well, not really, it was the gameplay).

 

[AdmiralViscen]

Wait a sec - no camera controls? Oh shit.

Do you need to control your own camera when you are watching the Super Bowl? Nope. TH will be exactly like that.

I was very active in the old ED and MGS threads. This thread is nothing compared to the threads that followed his interviews while with Nintendo. People made fun of every aspect of his games, his quotes, his weight, his nationality, his hair... Even the Nintendo base was split on SK. There were those who hated his games and those who liked them but thought Dennis should just shut up. EVERY SINGlE SK THREAD WAS LIKE THIS, GOING BACK TO BEFORE ED, LONG BEFORE THE SPLIT. A few people here may be ragging on this because they're bitter but don't fool yourself that that is the main reason.

Yup.

 

[Ghengis Cohen]

i'm just irritated by dyack's unspeakably vulgar notion of how shakespeare worked -- as if he was pynchon or barth or somebody. "i think i'm losing the plebes here; better give hamlet a sex gag or two. i'll make it up with some CEREBRAL METAPHORS later." ribald wit and metaphor are both places that shakespeare's characters go naturally...there's no divide there, let alone the sort of pandering dyack imagines. and shakespeare's (continuing) popularity across classes and cultures can't be explained so crudely. i recall that dyack once said that kojima was like socrates while miyamoto was like aristotle. i think it's reasonable to assume that he hasn't read shakespeare either.

also he's a dirty plagiarist.

edit: probably this sounds a little extreme, and i doubt i'd care if he'd only said it once. people say dumb things. but to repeat it verbatim in however many interviews for years...this pompous gasbag needs puncturing.

I knew there was a reason you are one of my favorite posters...

 

[yoopoo]

Wait a sec - no camera controls? Oh shit.

The camera is suppose to be replay type camera, think EGM mentions the game would be played through like replays in super bowl camera angles.

 

[monkeyrun]

"Our Princess is in another castle!"

best story ever, it's so good that they actually reused it 7 times in the same game.

 

[Shikamaru Ninja]

i'm just irritated by dyack's unspeakably vulgar notion of how shakespeare worked -- as if he was pynchon or barth or somebody. "i think i'm losing the plebes here; better give hamlet a sex gag or two. i'll make it up with some CEREBRAL METAPHORS later." ribald wit and metaphor are both places that shakespeare's characters go naturally...there's no divide there, let alone the sort of pandering dyack imagines. and shakespeare's (continuing) popularity across classes and cultures can't be explained so crudely. i recall that dyack once said that kojima was like socrates while miyamoto was like aristotle. i think it's reasonable to assume that he hasn't read shakespeare either.

also he's a dirty plagiarist.

edit: probably this sounds a little extreme, and i doubt i'd care if he'd only said it once. people say dumb things. but to repeat it verbatim in however many interviews for years...this pompous gasbag needs puncturing.

I agree that Dyack excretes the same discernable sweat that all overweight used car salesman produce during promotional pitches. However, a dirty plagiarist? I disagree 100 percent with what I find to be an erroneous mislead statement that has no other purpose but to add filler to the Dyack smear campaign everyone wants to be a part of. Blood Omen’s story is a great story in any sense of the spectrum that I feel Dyack and McCollum did a great job writing. (And listing some of the inspirations)

 

[Yamauchi]

Having worked with them, I'd think he knows a little bit more about the situation than you do.

Must have sucked working with such a douche.

 

[dammitmattt]

Wait a sec - no camera controls? Oh shit.

It really hurt God of War.

Also, everyone keeps throwing around the $80 million number. It is NOT in the EGM article, so where is everyone getting that from?

 

[drohne]

i'm referring to eternal darkness and the liberties it took with lovecraft. for all his namedropping, i don't recall that dyack has ever said "lovecraft." i don't even think he avoids lovecraft's name to put us off the trail -- i think it's that lovecraft isn't adequately "great," doesn't have the same ring as "shakespeare" or "nietzche." good enough to steal from, not good enough to reference. what a fraud.

 

[Solid]

This is my main complaint in ED (well, not really, it was the gameplay).

You bastard

 

[Gigglepoo]

I have to admit that I have a negative feeling towards certain games because of the people behind them. For instance, the guys behind Unreal 3 (Mark Reigns and something with a B...) seem like total asshats. The engine might be great but I hate reading what they have to say.

Dennis D doesn't annoy me, though. Sure, ED was fun, but it didn't live up to the hype. Blood Omen would have been great if it ran faster than 10FPS and I never played Metal Gear. Either way, I'm excited about Too Human. Anything that takes 10 years gets my attention. I'm excited for Duke Nuken Forever as well.

 

[Confidence Man]

I hope the next time he has an interview he says some really crazy shit just to get a thread going here. I want to hear about how playing the game is as good as getting a Bachelors in Philosophy or something.

 

[MrSardonic]

Also, everyone keeps throwing around the $80 million number. it is NOT in the EGM article, so where is everyone getting that from?

The same source that Dyack got him info from

 

[Speevy]

This game looks amazing. We'll know after E3 if it plays amazingly too.

 

[snatches]

I have to admit that I have a negative feeling towards certain games because of the people behind them. For instance, the guys behind Unreal 3 (Mark Reigns and something with a B...) seem like total asshats.

Too Human looks RAD. Oh and I posted just to agree that Mark Rein is, in fact, a TOTAL ASSHAT.

 

[jett]

i'm just irritated by dyack's unspeakably vulgar notion of how shakespeare worked -- as if he was pynchon or barth or somebody. "i think i'm losing the plebes here; better give hamlet a sex gag or two. i'll make it up with some CEREBRAL METAPHORS later." ribald wit and metaphor are both places that shakespeare's characters go naturally...there's no divide there, let alone the sort of pandering dyack imagines. and shakespeare's (continuing) popularity across classes and cultures can't be explained so crudely. i recall that dyack once said that kojima was like socrates while miyamoto was like aristotle. i think it's reasonable to assume that he hasn't read shakespeare either.

also he's a dirty plagiarist.

edit: probably this sounds a little extreme, and i doubt i'd care if he'd only said it once. people say dumb things. but to repeat it verbatim in however many interviews for years...this pompous gasbag needs puncturing.

:lol This is one of your best posts yet, drohne.

 

[Shiggy]

You bastard

The story and the music / atmosphere made the game great

 

[KiNeSiS]

Too Human will own your souls!

 

[bengraven]

I'm sorry, but FUCK THIS GAME.

The story sounds like Star Wars combined with God of War. It's going to be shorter than 25 hours ($60 for this?!). You can't control your camera. The right stick controls your melee moves like other revolutionary and highly, HIGHLY succesful games in the past (Rise of Honor, Nina from Tekken's game, Grabbed by the Ghoulies) have done. And it's been 10 years in the making, though the story seems to have just finally been locked into place within the last few years if you've read the small sub-story about the development cycle (doesn't that make it a completely different game than originally shown?).

Fuck it. I don't care. They lost me at "God of War controls" and "25 hours is pushing it".

 

[dammitmattt]

I'm sorry, but FUCK THIS GAME.

The story sounds like Star Wars combined with God of War. It's going to be shorter than 25 hours ($60 for this?!). You can't control your camera. The right stick controls your melee moves like other revolutionary and highly, HIGHLY succesful games in the past (Rise of Honor, Nina from Tekken's game, Grabbed by the Ghoulies) have done. And it's been 10 years in the making, though the story seems to have just finally been locked into place within the last few years if you've read the small sub-story about the development cycle (doesn't that make it a completely different game than originally shown?).

Fuck it. I don't care. They lost me at "God of War controls" and "25 hours is pushing it".

What's wrong with a 25 hour game that has 4-player co-op throughout the entire single-player game? Let me guess - you don't have a 360? Only people without a 360 truly bitch about the $60 games. That is the new standard price point for the next generation. GET OVER IT.

 

[xsarien]

The game seems to be a cool melding of technology and Norse mythology. Valkyries, Loki, the whole shebang. Looks very cool.

Man, there's gonna be a whole lot of reading...

 

[dante786]

I'm sorry, but FUCK THIS GAME.

The story sounds like Star Wars combined with God of War. It's going to be shorter than 25 hours ($60 for this?!). You can't control your camera. The right stick controls your melee moves like other revolutionary and highly, HIGHLY succesful games in the past (Rise of Honor, Nina from Tekken's game, Grabbed by the Ghoulies) have done. And it's been 10 years in the making, though the story seems to have just finally been locked into place within the last few years if you've read the small sub-story about the development cycle (doesn't that make it a completely different game than originally shown?).

Fuck it. I don't care. They lost me at "God of War controls" and "25 hours is pushing it".

How can you be outraged at game less than 25 hours being full price? How many action games are over 25 hours? RE4 took me less than 25 hours to beat, but it was still amazing, ditto for God of War. And why would "God of War controls" be a bad thing, that game controlled great.

 

[Speevy]

Guess what

Most games next generation will be $60
And most of those games will be around the 25 hour range, if not shorter.

Get over it.

 

[Beer Monkey]

I watched 12 movies and it lasted less than 25 hours and I spent way more than $60! Oh snap!

 

[GhaleonEB]

I'm deeply concerned about the controls, but I'll reserve full judgement until E3 when there is more hands-on time (I hope) with the game.

I have two issues with giving up camera control: First, the environments look stunning in this game and I'd like to be able to look around at them at will. Second, I've never played an action game that managed to get the camera right. Most at least let you make ajustments to the camera.

Do you need to control your own camera when you are watching the Super Bowl? Nope. TH will be exactly like that.

To be blunt, this is a pretty stupid example. We don't camera control over any kind of television or movies because we're not controlling the actions on the screen. Also, in football everyone is in a giant field without obstructions, so there are fixed views that enable you to see all of the action. In a dynamic environment with obsicals and walls that's just not going to work.

 

[MrSardonic]

The story sounds like Star Wars combined with God of War.

I thought it was more Ghost in the Shell/Bladerunner. And 25 hours isn't bad, but I suspect it will be closer to 12.

4-player co-op throughout the entire single-player game

wtf is going to happen to the framerate and detail though?

 

[AdmiralViscen]

To be blunt, this is a pretty stupid example. We don't camera control over any kind of television or movies because we're not controlling the actions on the screen. Also, in football everyone is in a giant field without obstructions, so there are fixed views that enable you to see all of the action. In a dynamic environment with obsicals and walls that's just not going to work.

I know that. Dyack sucks.

 

[Gattsu25]

Guess what

Most games next generation will be $60
And most of those games will be around the 25 hour range, if not shorter.

Get them used.

Agreed. MS doesn't pay your bills, Speevy...it was just a console

 

[Speevy]

Agreed. MS doesn't pay your bills, Speevy...it was just a console

This has nothing to do with MS. If you never even SEE an Xbox 360 and buy a PS3, you're in the same situation. 25 hour games, $60 price tags. That's all there is to it.

 

[thorns]

I'm sorry, but FUCK THIS GAME.

The story sounds like Star Wars combined with God of War.

No it doesn't. Neither star wars or god of war are about man vs. machine. It sounds more like Terminator, Blade runner etc.

And God of War is not original anyway, or do you think every game inspired from mythology has a story like God of War?

 

[AdmiralViscen]

This has nothing to do with MS. If you never even SEE an Xbox 360 and buy a PS3, you're in the same situation. 25 hour games, $60 price tags. That's all there is to it.

I would like it if devs would put all of the shit they have done onto a disc when they sell it to me. I don't like them chopping it up just to get more money out of me.

Spoiler

anyone try out the new Oblivion stuff?

 

[wazoo]

Guess what

Most games next generation will be $60
And most of those games will be around the 25 hour range, if not shorter.

Get over it.

and most will be at half the price six month later.

 

[Ghengis Cohen]

Guess what

Most games next generation will be $60
And most of those games will be around the 25 hour range, if not shorter.

Get over it.

Won't this be 50$ anyways since it is Microsoft first party?
(don't take this as any sort of defense of this game. I've played ED)