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Too Human Coverage April/13/07 (post #922+ for reactions)
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Speevy said:
Exactly my point. Too Human is more like those first games listed than the second. You can upgrade characters, get to at least level 50 in the first installment, it's going for an epic story and cinematic mode, with developed characters. The fact that people are comparing the combat to DMC and NG when they should be comparing it to Oblivion, DC, Fable, etc....I believe speaks pretty highly about the combat itself.
KingJ2002
Member
wow... i just saw the video on IGN and i must say the game looks leaps and bounds better than the E306 build... the levels are pretty damn big and the characters are incredibly detailed.
but i got to take a step back and say that the 4 player co-op looks like it's going to be the shit.
this game is officially put back on my top 10 must have list.
but i got to take a step back and say that the 4 player co-op looks like it's going to be the shit.
this game is officially put back on my top 10 must have list.
I hate to point out that those 'iffy animations' may just be a result of the uber-fast reflexes of a Nanobot Augmented Human CyberGod, which happens to be the main protagonist.
I don't think those will change, because I think it's integral to gameplay combo-ing and explained through the entire science fiction setting where apparent in-human speeds are quite acceptable.
So, if it makes the game better, give me more lightning fast movement, looking like iffy animation when unexplained and out of context.
Of course, this may not be the case and it could change to more apparently fluid animation in the end, but it's what I think the reason is.
I don't think those will change, because I think it's integral to gameplay combo-ing and explained through the entire science fiction setting where apparent in-human speeds are quite acceptable.
So, if it makes the game better, give me more lightning fast movement, looking like iffy animation when unexplained and out of context.
Of course, this may not be the case and it could change to more apparently fluid animation in the end, but it's what I think the reason is.
UncleGuito
Banned
Too Human is looking amazing, I can't wait. And I also can't believe how there's people still bitching about it. Get over your differences with Dyack and enjoy the game.
AltogetherAndrews
Member
jimbo said:
No, it speaks highly of the high talk that has surrounded the game itself. That's it. The combat in Oblivion was never pimped like the combat in Too Human has been, by SK and magazine/site editors alike. This is the part that you just do not seem to grasp, or maybe you for whatever reason just really don't want to acknowledge it. You're acting as if we put this pressure on Too Human to deliver on the action aspect, and that's not true. If the RPG and adventure aspect is talked about, I expect that to deliver. And the same goes for the action aspect, which right now seems crippled by a rather dull animation model. The supposed base in Norse mythology makes the tameness of the combat animation all the more disappointing.
Denis Dyack said:
hello there!
can you please go a bit in detail about how the rank system, inventory and enhancements work?
to many people this is far more important than the number of additional frames you'll add when the character shakes his booty, and there was really too little info on this (very substantial I hope) part of the game.
also how will the 4player work? will it be drop-in drop-out and constant throughout the entire storyline? or we are talking specific mission-types here?
is the starting character selection fixed? can you create a character by balancing attributes or its "pick one out of five and get going" stuff?
also I noticed that player was at level 1, and at one point at level 2. can we expect significant changes as the rank goes up, or is it just heavier firepower stuff?
also I noticed this "Bioengineer not available on demo" thing.
what demo?
please write a few words about the deeper aspects of the game to keep us busy, or else:
:lol
I am very happy about this game, just need some info on the more important parts.
cheers
AltogetherAndrews said:
And for good reason.
Also: Your OPINION!
Mine: The combat looks great and fun.
Also for the record, in a videogame in order to get smoother animation, you have to add animation sequences to a particular move. The more animation sequences you add, the LONGER it takes for a character to perform a particular move, SLOWING down combat. There's a fine line between smooth animation and fast gameplay.
Confidence Man
Member
jimbo said:
So it looks like a duck and acts like a duck, but wiggles around like a snake. But that's okay because it really is a snake that just looks like a duck?
AltogetherAndrews
Member
Mifune said:
I care plenty about combat if the damned game itself is based around combat, and doubly so if the game happens to be based on Norse mythology. Just like I care about tech demo properties in playable tech demos. If Lair didn't nail the technology to such an amazing degree, chances are I'd have no interest in it. Pretty simply stuff really.
Wow people are really exagerating how poor the animations are. Opening the video I expected complete crap, what I saw was fairly mediocre (not crap) with alot of potential.
I think the main problem is the aerial combat, when the guy leaps into the air, his legs need to do something, they can't just hang there as if he's still standing, same with the enemies he's hitting, they shouldn't look to be suspended mid-air, gravity needs to exist...
The combo's look a little stiff, but I really think they have a solid base here, and with some tweaking it'll be a nice satisfying combat engine.
And, as others have pointed out, combat is the icing on the cake in a game like this. In GOW or NG, combat IS the cake, so in no way do I expect the combat to be on the level of those games.
You don't play these games for the combat, it's all about exploration, loot drops, cool equipment, storyline, sidequests etc etc, the fact they've built in a semi-cool combat system just takes it to the next level.
With all that said, I did expect alot more from the lauded 'blowout', so hopefully, as Dennis says, we see some lengthy footage of the combat, some of the more impressive settings, and alot more info on the RPG elements.
You can safely put my hype meter at an 8/10.
p.s. A big thumbs down to IGN for that farce last night and the cock teasing over the last 6 weeks. That's NOT how you do a preview of a game. Next time, tell us a few days before reveal until then just shutup.
I think the main problem is the aerial combat, when the guy leaps into the air, his legs need to do something, they can't just hang there as if he's still standing, same with the enemies he's hitting, they shouldn't look to be suspended mid-air, gravity needs to exist...
The combo's look a little stiff, but I really think they have a solid base here, and with some tweaking it'll be a nice satisfying combat engine.
And, as others have pointed out, combat is the icing on the cake in a game like this. In GOW or NG, combat IS the cake, so in no way do I expect the combat to be on the level of those games.
You don't play these games for the combat, it's all about exploration, loot drops, cool equipment, storyline, sidequests etc etc, the fact they've built in a semi-cool combat system just takes it to the next level.
With all that said, I did expect alot more from the lauded 'blowout', so hopefully, as Dennis says, we see some lengthy footage of the combat, some of the more impressive settings, and alot more info on the RPG elements.
You can safely put my hype meter at an 8/10.
p.s. A big thumbs down to IGN for that farce last night and the cock teasing over the last 6 weeks. That's NOT how you do a preview of a game. Next time, tell us a few days before reveal until then just shutup.
AltogetherAndrews
Member
jimbo said:
Oh please. Other games manage to make the combat look suitably wild and ferocious while keeping things fluid, but Too human with its supposed base in Norse berserker mythology of all games is somehow restricted from achieving the same? And I've never claimed that this was anything but my opinion, so I don't know why in the hell you would be so daft as to make a comment like that in the first place. Of course it's my opinion. My whole argument has been that the animation model is a poor fit. Your defense has basically amounted to that we shouldn't expect so much because the game spans across several genres.
Well it's definitely more polished than last time, but it still looks like the same game. I don't see anything to believe it's more than a button masher with characters that level up. Some of the environments look quite nice, although the scale + camera makes the characters look like really small toys.
Still, I'm somewhat curious to see how it turns out...
Still, I'm somewhat curious to see how it turns out...
AltogetherAndrews said:
The game if FAR closer to Diablo than GoW. What don't you understand about that? It's not in any way 'built around combat'.
Basically you're bitching cause they 'talked up the combat' whatever the hell that means, ingoring the fact that it's a freakin action-RPG, which have never revolved around combat. For this genre, this fighting system is basically heads and shoulders over anything out there, especially if they smooth out the kinks.
Ninja Scooter
Member
jimbo said:
:lol
AltogetherAndrews said:
Ok from your past couple of posts I think I am beginning to understand you and I can summarize your attitude as...gameplay, story, atmosphere and fun take second place to animation and technology. In which case you may carry on. But I have to wonder, with that kind of attitude, how bad did it hurt you to play videogames for the past 25 years that had none of the things you seem to require? I feel sorry for your teeth from all the clinching.
And exactly which games based on Norse berserk mythology have this perfectly fluid animation that Too Human should be doing?
jimbo said:
Na I'm at work at the moment, suppose to be doing overtime right now
. Anyhow, the .hack series were ARPGS for the ps2. It was spread through 4 games, you kept the same characters, ablities, items, etc. through each game. A level cap was present during each game as well. Different classes existed too. Only difference between .hack and Too Human is you can customize your own character and such and it has online co-op. In .hack it was co-op per say, if anyone played it they would know what I mean:lol Anyways, I really like the .hack series and it seems I will enjoy this game too
AltogetherAndrews
Member
jimbo said:
I don't think you understand anything, really. I care about the combat and animation aspect of a game that is at least in part based on combat. Hence why I'm limiting my argument to involve that aspect of the game. I'll argue about the story when that time comes, and the atmosphere I've already complimented. And that's as simple as I'm going to make it for you.
AltogetherAndrews
Member
jimbo said:
Well, I haven't played many combat heavy games that are this deeply based on Norse mythology, so I couldn't really tell you. Not that it matters, as this is just another angle of the same brittle and poorly positioned argument that you and others have been leaning on for some time now. We shouldn't expect great things because other games haven't managed achieved greatness? What the hell kind of argument is that?
KGKK said:Na I'm at work at the moment, suppose to be doing overtime right now
Anyways, I really like the .hack series and it seems I will enjoy this game too
Gotcha. Then yes, it seems to share a lot of the same idea with .hack.
And as far as your question, some areas look better Mass Effect, some areas worse. It's on par IMO, but the difference is Too Human seem to do scaling on a much greater level than Mass Effect. The video literally shows the camera zoom out from a tunnel inside a cave to an overview of the entire ice area that dwarfs the cave and the characters inside. Another area shows you going from a fairly large room, to a fairly large tunnel, and when you exit you see this HUGE cliff outside, the camera pans up and then centers on a flying ship above that cliff. Hope that gives you some kind of an idea.
I also believe the art style itself is right up there with Mass Effect. I love the fur coat guy. That's who I wanna play as.
Oldschoolgamer
The physical form of blasphemy
jimbo said:
*sighs*
Dude...the point is that regardless of whatever the genre is, the animations don't look up to par. PS2 games like Shin Onimusha(which was a stat away from being an arpg) had nicer looking animations than this "next gen" game does. That is it.
At any rate. Co-op needs to survive! I'm glad they are including it.
Vyse The Legend
Member
Petrarca said:
Glad to see you can read Dyack's mind.
Too Human may have begun as an action game, but it's now something very different. Saying dumb crap like "Well, DENIS SED LIEK OVA A YEAR AGO IT WAS ALL ABOOT ACTIONZ" doesn't give your argument any credibility, and it's obviously just your way of justifying your blind hate.
This game is obviously more like an actiony PSO than a pure-bred action game, like DMC. And, as such, you cannot compare them.
AltogetherAndrews said:
You can expect great things, but I think your problem is in the fact that you are taking a game that has action, rpg, story, basically a jack of all trades, and expecting that each part of that game matches what games that specialize in those categories are doing. Yeah set your expectations wherever you want, and I would love to have a game that has the perfect action of NG or DMC, the gun play of GOW, the amazing freedom and depth of Oblivion with the story telling of Square games.....
Sho_Nuff82
Member
Looks good, but still, after this supposed 'blowout', I still feel completely in the dark.
You can talk all day long about 'RPG elements' but until someone sits down and does a write up about how much I can customize my character's haircut or place modifiers on all of my weapons or how leveling affects my powers, it all rings kind of hollow.
Next week's coverage should be much more interesting, as I'm pretty sure we all knew the game was going to look good based on previous screens and the engine it uses.
Oh, and how about some co-op impressions? Is it drop-in/drop-out? Do you all level equally? Are enemies/loots increased by scale? How does the camera work? This could be the difference between being just a throwaway mode or the next PSO.
You can talk all day long about 'RPG elements' but until someone sits down and does a write up about how much I can customize my character's haircut or place modifiers on all of my weapons or how leveling affects my powers, it all rings kind of hollow.
Next week's coverage should be much more interesting, as I'm pretty sure we all knew the game was going to look good based on previous screens and the engine it uses.
Oh, and how about some co-op impressions? Is it drop-in/drop-out? Do you all level equally? Are enemies/loots increased by scale? How does the camera work? This could be the difference between being just a throwaway mode or the next PSO.
Just watched & looks great!
Really interested in:
the story
the combat
the characters
the RPG emlements
and above all being able to play 4 player online co-op through the game.
So big games were named, elements from Diablo, WoW hmm...
I'm holding off on my excitedment till the games released but look forward to playign with you guys when its out
Really interested in:
the story
the combat
the characters
the RPG emlements
and above all being able to play 4 player online co-op through the game.
So big games were named, elements from Diablo, WoW hmm...
I'm holding off on my excitedment till the games released but look forward to playign with you guys when its out
MrSardonic
The nerdiest nerd of all the nerds in nerdland
BboyDubC said:
Yeah, thanks.
It's not simply the rigid appearance of the animation but the rigid appearance of the gameplay. Eternal Darkness managed to focus so much on story and cut-scenes that the gameplay turned into utterly mediocre padding between story-telling moments...from the footage they've shown it doesn't appear that Too Human has managed to create compelling combat (something they are hyping) either.
At least they'll get a camera system out of it.
Ark-AMN said:
That disclaimer was ridiculous and just reminded me of the bullshit that went down between Dyack and 1UP.
Ark-AMN said:
Right...
Raven1907 said:
Awesome. Maybe they can make a CGI movie next year.
jimbo said:
:lol almost as funny as suggesting this game is comparable to WoW. But then again, the Dyack hype-machine would have you believe that this game is a blend of the best aspects of the world's greatest games, movies, mythology, philosophy, and science.
Is it perfect? Nope, it needs work in the combat especialy. But dammit i am soooo ****ing excited for this game it's not even funny! LOVE the style and they really managed to make it look and feel epic. Great job there and i can't wait to see more.
Thumbs up Denis. Good job!
Thumbs up Denis. Good job!
Vyse The Legend
Member
Petrarca said:
:lol
jordan0386
Member
All that, and the reaction is still 50/50...I wonder how DD feels
I know it's still early, but that pretty much killed my interest in the game. The graphics look great, but the combat, animation, and jerky camera movement as it targets enemies just looks sloppy. I think the biggest animation problem (besides the cheesy running anim with the kung fu grip) is that one second Balder just kind of plants his feet and waves that little sword around without putting any sort of effort into it, then the next he zaps over to someone else with no momentum, plants his feet and waves his sword around again.
I found it kind of interesting that he mentions Devil May Cry when discussing the combat, because every move Dante does involves these big dramatic sword movements that he puts his whole body into. I think when you want to make an epic and cinematic game, you need epic and cinematic combat. Hopefully what they've shown is still temporary but I'm not expecting much of a change.
The game does look amazing though, especially the scale and detail of the environments.
I found it kind of interesting that he mentions Devil May Cry when discussing the combat, because every move Dante does involves these big dramatic sword movements that he puts his whole body into. I think when you want to make an epic and cinematic game, you need epic and cinematic combat. Hopefully what they've shown is still temporary but I'm not expecting much of a change.
The game does look amazing though, especially the scale and detail of the environments.
AltogetherAndrews said:
No you're missing the point again. Combat is the core of an action game like NG or DMC, Too Human does a ton of other things and it's core is not combat, expecting it too match a pure action game is not only unfair, it's completely unrealistic.
There has never been an action-rpg that had combat elements anywhere near a pure action game.
Yes, it looks like a bad DMC rip-off. Point is, a bad DMC ripoff is still a huge step forward for a game with deep exploration and RPG elements.
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