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Too Human Coverage April/13/07 (post #922+ for reactions)

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Karma Kramer said:
I wonder if the stiff animations are done on purpose. I mean isn't this game suppose to be based around the fact that your character is basically a cyborg...?
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I thought about that. I was also thinking things will change depending on what type of customization the player makes on Baldur, since you will be altering your character traits in the game, which I assume includes speed and such.

Still, the animation transitions do need work. And I am hoping that the 60fps goal which was iterated in the past is still reachable. A stable framerate alone I think would go a long way to aleviate most animation issues.
 
after watching it and taking into account that the animation isnt final, the actual gameplay is the only part that im not so sure on. I havent played it, im not claiming I have, but watching that video makes me wonder even more about why they went with dual analog fighting. I can understand shooting with the right analog stick, that way you can move back and still shoot, but for melee it doesnt make sense at all.
 
Agent Icebeezy said:
No, there is that stick in the ass NFL2k running. However, the game looks nice as hell to me. I loved Eternal Darkness, SK will do right by this game.
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I do hope that animation gets tweaked, considering how much time you'll spend seeing it. But yeah - the game as a whole looks great.
 
i should probably have included it in my initial recommendations, but i've thought it since E3 and the released mp3s from the TH blog, but the game sounds wonderful. i can't wait to hear more :)
 
Revelations said:
No, why would you be worried? Single player is still the main focus here.
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I don't know maybe I just misunderstood but from the video I though they were trying to make it a dungeon crawler (with the collecting and stuff they were talking about) and those usually aren't fun in SP
 
GhaleonEB said:
I do hope that animation gets tweaked, considering how much time you'll spend seeing it. But yeah - the game as a whole looks great.
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Yeah, same impressions. They haven't changed this animation since E3....which is one of the things I wished they'd do...

Hopefully the game isn't coming out next month. All they need to do is polish up the framerate and just add a few more subtle movements to the animations and voilas!

The game looks amazing thus far though.
 
jjasper said:
I don't know maybe I just misunderstood but from the video I though they were trying to make it a dungeon crawler (with the collecting and stuff they were talking about) and those usually aren't fun in SP
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i think that's a "to each his own" kinda thing. i've enjoyed dungeon crawlers in SP like diablo 1&2 and dungeon siege and stuff. if the cutscenes we've seen vague clips of are any indication, it may have even more story and probably a better one.
 
I just finished watching the ep and. . . why is Lair getting any hype? It looks ugly and the play looks kinda boring. Say what you will about how much tech it's pushing and all that, but it looks like awful CG, and when they're flying over forests, the ground looks abysmal.
 
Lol, the game isn't coming out "soon". I know people are thinking that because of what Denis has said in regards to showing the game. However, in this case, he also said that it was not his choice to show the game now. Therefore, the game isn't done or close to being done.

EDIT: I know I'll be called a fanboy here, but I liked Too Human's graphics and look over Lair's. :D
 
White Man said:
I just finished watching the ep and. . . why is Lair getting any hype? It looks ugly and the play looks kinda boring. Say what you will about how much tech it's pushing and all that, but it looks like awful CG, and when they're flying over forests, the ground looks abysmal.
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Uh oh. :lol
 
my problem that still remains from the last e3 demo is that the combat still looks so damn clunky. It still looks like Baldur is just waving his staff around in thin air, with "CLANK CLANK CLANK" sound effects thrown in. The enemies don't seem to react in any meaningful way to being hit. And there doesn't seem to be any impact to the attacks. This is one reason why games like God of War, PSO or hell even Dynasty Warriors, while incredibly simple or even repetitive, can be so much fun.
 
Ark-AMN said:
Lol, the game isn't coming out "soon". I know people are thinking that because of what Denis has said in regards to showing the game. However, in this case, he also said that it was not his choice to show the game now. Therefore, the game isn't done or close to being done.

EDIT: I know I'll be called a fanboy here, but I liked Too Human's graphics and look over Lair's. :D
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Any word on a possible release date or window?
 
Ninja Scooter said:
my problem that still remains from the last e3 demo is that the combat still looks so damn clunky. It still looks like Baldur is just waving his staff around in thin air, with "CLANK CLANK CLANK" sound effects thrown in. The enemies don't seem to react in any meaningful way to being hit. And there doesn't seem to be any impact to the attacks. This is one reason why games like God of War, PSO or hell even Dynasty Warriors, while incredibly simple or even repetitive, can be so much fun.
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Agreed.
 
White Man said:
I just finished watching the ep and. . . why is Lair getting any hype? It looks ugly and the play looks kinda boring. Say what you will about how much tech it's pushing and all that, but it looks like awful CG, and when they're flying over forests, the ground looks abysmal.
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go to game trailers and watch the HD dev part 1 and 2
 
godhandiscen said:
So... BboyDubC, you were saying?


People like BboyDubC really make the argument of Dyack stronger.
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So if it looks like a horse, neighs like a horse and bucks like a horse... let's call it a cow!
 
Ninja Scooter said:
my problem that still remains from the last e3 demo is that the combat still looks so damn clunky. It still looks like Baldur is just waving his staff around in thin air, with "CLANK CLANK CLANK" sound effects thrown in. The enemies don't seem to react in any meaningful way to being hit. And there doesn't seem to be any impact to the attacks. This is one reason why games like God of War, PSO or hell even Dynasty Warriors, while incredibly simple or even repetitive, can be so much fun.
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Too me it looks like the gameplay is more like Diablo / WoW than God of War.
 
White Man said:
I just finished watching the ep and. . . why is Lair getting any hype? It looks ugly and the play looks kinda boring. Say what you will about how much tech it's pushing and all that, but it looks like awful CG, and when they're flying over forests, the ground looks abysmal.
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Factor 5 has a pretty good record of games, they made amazing looking games on the Gamecube, and the game is in alpha.

that said, it isnt looking that great at the moment, but it is in alpha, so it can look much better before actually comming out.
 
Ark-AMN said:
Lol, the game isn't coming out "soon". I know people are thinking that because of what Denis has said in regards to showing the game. However, in this case, he also said that it was not his choice to show the game now. Therefore, the game isn't done or close to being done.

EDIT: I know I'll be called a fanboy here, but I liked Too Human's graphics and look over Lair's. :D
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So do I. I appreciate what Factor 5 is doing in regards to this seamless tech stuff, physics, fluid dynamics etc, but I really don't find it very pleasing to look at. Too cluttered and grungy. We'll see how other areas look like, but beyond the initial dazzle of wondrous technology, I still maintain that it's an unattractive game. I don't agree with all the designs in Too Human (especially when looking at as an interpretation of Norse mythology and traditions), but at least there is some consistency to the vision there, and it is at times quite attractive.
 
Ninja Scooter said:
my problem that still remains from the last e3 demo is that the combat still looks so damn clunky. It still looks like Baldur is just waving his staff around in thin air, with "CLANK CLANK CLANK" sound effects thrown in. The enemies don't seem to react in any meaningful way to being hit. And there doesn't seem to be any impact to the attacks. This is one reason why games like God of War, PSO or hell even Dynasty Warriors, while incredibly simple or even repetitive, can be so much fun.
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That's what I've been saying all along. There's no heft, intertia, gravity, or power to the hits. The points of impact aren't well thought out strikes, it's just Star Wars kid like flailing.

And it's my biggest worry because it's very ED-like. I'm not sure they see it as an issue or if that's what they WANT...
 
Another LOL@IGN moment.

They just put the 640x360 version of the movie behind the Insider lock, and are now only offering the 320x180 version free.
 
Razoric said:
Too me it looks like the gameplay is more like Diablo / WoW than God of War.
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im just saying you can have it both ways. Just because the game is in a genre that isn't known for having complex fighting mechanics doesn't mean they can't try and change that, especially with all the talking they've done about how this game will either compare to one up stuff like DMC or PSO. Especially when they seem to be taking the fighting in that direction with stuff like juggling and more variations in attacks than you see in a game like Diablo.

And it's my biggest worry because it's very ED-like. I'm not sure they see it as an issue or if that's what they WANT...
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thats been my biggest concern from the start. I might get flack for being a Dyack/SK hater, but i really liked Eternal Darkness and played through it 3 times, but you have to be an idiot to not realize that the combat wasn't exactly its strongest point and certianly not the funnest thing in the world. But it wasn't the focus of the game as much as it seems to be with Too Human.
 
White Man said:
I just finished watching the ep and. . . why is Lair getting any hype? It looks ugly and the play looks kinda boring. Say what you will about how much tech it's pushing and all that, but it looks like awful CG, and when they're flying over forests, the ground looks abysmal.
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I suggest you check out some of the gametrailers videos. The Lair segment in this show was horribly put together. They had clips from the pre-rendered trailer which would jarringly transition into gameplay, thus making the actual gameplay look quite a bit worse.

As for the gameplay being boring, well, I hope we haven't seen everything the game has to offer. But at the same time, I liked the first Rogue Squadron game, and a game like that with dragons is fine with me.

A good chunk of the appeal of Factor 5 games has always been the tech, so I think a lot of the game's hype comes from the purty graphics.
 
Ark-AMN said:
My god, people who have a clue of the development process should really keep their mouths shut.
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I'm surprised you find the time to speak out of yours...given that it spends 95% of the day wrapped around a part of Dyack's anatomy
 
AltogetherAndrews said:
So do I. I appreciate what Factor 5 is doing in regards to this seamless tech stuff, physics, fluid dynamics etc, but I really don't find it very pleasing to look at. Too cluttered and grungy. We'll see how other areas look like, but beyond the initial dazzle of wondrous technology, I still maintain that it's an unattractive game. I don't agree with all the designs in Too Human (especially when looking at as an interpretation of Norse mythology and traditions), but at least there is some consistency to the vision there, and it is at times quite attractive.
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Nice post :)
 
After a bit of reflection, the combat system needs a lot of work. The enemies seem like their purpose is to stand there, look pretty, and get killed. The battle animations leave a lot to be desired. Maybe I am wrong, maybe it's because I just started GOW 2, but the combat seems like it needs either a ton of work, or a complete rehaul. Hopefully SK will work hard, and make a hell of a game. Denis, the sooner a demo is ready, the better. Just MAKE SURE it is 100% ready when it is released.
 
White Man said:
I just finished watching the ep and. . . why is Lair getting any hype? It looks ugly and the play looks kinda boring. Say what you will about how much tech it's pushing and all that, but it looks like awful CG, and when they're flying over forests, the ground looks abysmal.
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i thought the same thing, but i've seen other bits where it doesn't look so bad so i'm trying to stay optimistic. the dragon fighting thing that looked like some mating ritual had me laughing at how bad it looked though. the idea is pretty cool, but as it was pictured there it looked horrible.

the armies on the bridge looked rather laughable too. they moved worse than the ones in Kameo in that video :(
 
SnakeXs said:
That's what I've been saying all along. There's no heft, intertia, gravity, or power to the hits. The points of impact aren't well thought out strikes, it's just Star Wars kid like flailing.

And it's my biggest worry because it's very ED-like. I'm not sure they see it as an issue or if that's what they WANT...
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I think most people agree that the interaction and animation or lack thereof feels more like shadowboxing or pantomime rather than actual connected fighting. I would think that they realize this, especially with everyone harping on it. If they don't deliver on the animation by release, SK needs to be taken out behind the shed and shot.
 
gluv65 said:
go to game trailers and watch the HD dev part 1 and 2
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The walk-through shows without doubt that Lair is one hell of a tech showcase and that Factor 5 are tech wizards, but beyond that... if you didn't find the combat or the visual style appealing before, watching that probably won't change your mind.

White Man said:
Alright, that looks a LOT better.

About the "alpha" comments: I thought Lair was like 2 months from release?
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They still claim it's alpha, but there was something about the next step being a very fast affair or something to that effect. I guess they are using a larger team for the final stage.
 
White Man said:
Alright, that looks a LOT better.

About the "alpha" comments: I thought Lair was like 2 months from release?
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july is release according to the IGN interview in that video...
 
I think Lair looks fantastic too. I think some people focus on the weaker parts of its presentation while ignoring what they've achieved through art and tech.
 
Here's my two cents on whatever IGN showed of the unfinished build:

The main characters have a good amount of details, the soldiers still need some work. Nice iconic locales.

The camera angle has changed for the better and is now closer to the action.

Animations need serious work. Combat is about the interplay between the attacker and the one being attacked, the attack animations themselves need work but so far the way the enemies react to the attacks is either the enemy remaining there or flying away in a semi-floating ragdoll-like manner, from what has been shown so far, this really hasn't been significantly improved from the E3 build, and that is one of my biggest gripes with this build.

Nice to see character customization and "leveling up" but it's a means to an end, for those who don't obsess over "atk +50 vs atk +45" or "int +25 vs. int +28", leveling up is not really the point, the point is to see how the abilities the player gains ACTUALLY affect combat in a VISCERAL, TANGIBLE way.

From what they've shown so far it doesn't seem like the right-analog stick driven combat is showing much depth in terms of combos that can be executed and the controller layout doesn't seem to suggest any kind of R/L-modifier move, or some form of grappling/throwing mechanic. And is two buttons really needed for jumping (R-bump and x)?

The question is what exactly these people are trying to make. Are they making an action-adventure game? Are there going to be puzzles? Is there going to be platforming?

We know that there is going to be leveling up and character customization/loot but outside of playing around with the menus how much of it is the combat going to be? If the game revolves much around combat then why can't the audience expect more depth? This very much reminded me of the conversations I've had with some diehard castlevania fans regarding Curse of Darkness in that the game's combo system was pretty lame but the excuse was that it's more about the "RPG elements" which amounts to nothing more than leveling up and having different weapons that aside from the difference in attack power, essentially yielding very similar sets of animations, and that evil pet thing the game lets you have, essentially a clunky way of implementing moves that could have integrated much better into the character's own moveset. Does labeling an action game a "dungeon-hack/diablo-style action-RPG" negate the need to inject depth into the combat?
 
White Man said:
I just finished watching the ep and. . . why is Lair getting any hype? It looks ugly and the play looks kinda boring. Say what you will about how much tech it's pushing and all that, but it looks like awful CG, and when they're flying over forests, the ground looks abysmal.
Click to expand...

i just don't even talk about Lair anymore since I am apparently trolling by not getting the hype for the title. I'll just say this, going after Too Human in that ep was really a bad scene for the F5 guys..
 
White Man said:
Alright, that looks a LOT better.

About the "alpha" comments: I thought Lair was like 2 months from release?
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That's how Factor 5 operates, it says in the IGN preview that the process from Alpha to final is very fast for them. The same thing happened for their Rogue Squadron games.

Anyway, Too Human looks amazing and the music is top notch. The camera seems a little close for the big swarms of enemies, but the build is very early so this can be easily tweaked. Everything else including the story has caught my interest.

If the game gets rave reviews, this would be the one that convinces me to get a 360. However, I'll only get one when I feel comfortable about the hardware reliability. By that time, more of the issues should be ironed out along with a cheaper price.
 
I always liked the look of the game, but after watching that video, WOW.

All those huge, varied environment looked SO beautiful. Hope the gameplay is fun, and I'll check this out for sure.
 
Well for those of you who can only stream and want better quality then the youtube link i went ahead and uploaded the Too Human part to my place.

Click here!

Never really messed with streams before so would like some feedback :).
 
p3tran said:
as usual, I am going to have to point to the freakin' obvious:

vlcsnap88277copyod1.jpg


so everybody complaining about those details on animations, details, framerate, keep that in mind.


too human is looking to be a great game!

4 player online co-op with rpg elements and trade between my company and stuff is looking very great in my book!
plus I really like the art style. :)
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In terms of how that disclaimer affects your impressions of the game --your mileage may vary based on when the title itself will actually release.

If it's coming out a month from now, you can basically throw that disclaimer aside. Any changes that will be made to the "animations, textures, etc." will be minor.
 
I never cared much about this game but I really liked what I saw. I didn't know this was some PSO/DMC mix, I thought it was single player.

My only fear is the whole being split into three games thing, I dont want to feel like they just left out content on one game just to make three of them.
 
Yeah, so basically how much this game can "improve" will be largely dependant on its release date.

Any ideas? So the game is "99%" complete, no?
 
I'm pretty sure MS' release schedule is too filled up as it is this year. And with everyone leaning toward an '08 release, that sounds a lot more reasonable.
 
A lot of the stuff looks heavily influenced by Blizzard games. And I have to admit a lot of those combos look wicked sweet. But I'll say it again...It's all going to come down to Silicon Knights focusing on what matters and delivering a smooth and fun gameplay experience above all else. We've seen that they can do story and atmosphere. Now let's see them pull everything together with Too Human.
 
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