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[Tieno]

http://media.games.ign.com/articles/693/693580/vids_1.html

*downloading*

 

[Petrarca]

so Too Human is actually an RPG!!

ugh, but the animations are still stiff and shitty looking

 

[Thunderbear]

so Too Human is actually an RPG!!

ugh, but the animations are still stiff and shitty looking

Very. The graphics look ok but animations are really, really bad. Really messes up the gameplay for me.

I like the sound of 4 player co-op tho.

 

[generalpatton71]

F***ing IGN servers it's going to take 4 ever for this to download. I guess I'll back to porn for a hour or so.

 

[reaver18]

looks alright. graphics look good but the gameplay is unoriginal.

 

[MightyHedgehog]

Unorganized blob of criticism and praise:

So, I just watched it. I have to say, I'm very impressed with the potential and what early footage of the game was shown. The melee looks fine in terms of being technically there for gameplay, but the animation depicting interaction between enemy and user looks a bit too disconnected and pantomime. The animation also looks very early and directly pose-to-pose while lacking a sense of weight, inertia, and contact/friction as the character moves around on the floor. The camera already looks great (you guys are probably using a ****-ton of 'rails' in conjunction with your camera logic). The music sounds really, really ****ing awesome, I have to say. The look is also great. Looks overall great and the gameplay, especially persistent character stats/skills/level/etc. being carried over, Suikoden-style. Four player co-op and the variety and quality of appearance is already super nice. Mainly, I just hope you guys work on the animation and melee interaction. Oh yeah, I hate the angular translucent weapon trails. Circular motions just look kinda cheap when the contours of the special effects supposedly tracking off of them look different than the actual anim appeared to move...they don't match well. Look at Soul Calibur and circular trail effects for what I'm talking about. Overall, I'm hyped.

 

[Petrarca]

Very. The graphics look ok but animations are really, really bad. Really messes up the gameplay for me.

I like the sound of 4 player co-op tho.

Did they actually invest in real action actors/choreographers?

I mean for the love of god, they just can't get it right. When you look at DMC or NG, you can see the action animations look smooth and natural, but when you look at Too Human, you feel like playing a robot, heck maybe that's what they're aiming for, since mechanic is the theme of the game

 

[MightyHedgehog]

Did they actually invest in real action actors/choreographers?

I mean for the love of god, they just can't get it right. When you look at DMC or NG, you can see the action animations look smooth and natural, but when you look at Too Human, you feel like playing a robot, heck maybe that's what they're aiming for, since mechanic is the theme of the game

Well, final anims might not be there...indeed, I find it hard to believe those are final by any means...still just placeholders, I bet. That said, I agree.

 

[Thunderbear]

Did they actually invest in real action actors/choreographers?

I mean for the love of god, they just can't get it right. When you look at DMC or NG, you can see the action animations look smooth and natural, but when you look at Too Human, you feel like playing a robot, heck maybe that's what they're aiming for, since mechanic is the theme of the game

Doesn't look like motion capture to me so no actors at all would be my guess. It's just really bad key-framed animation.

 

[Deacan]

Damn its a shame the quality of the video sucks.

 

[antiloop]

It has potential. Norse mythology is a good choice.


It also look a lot better than the E3 fiasco.
Co-op sounds great, battles look stiff as hell.

 

[FFChris]

Well, final anims might not be there...indeed, I find it hard to believe those are final by any means...still just placeholders, I bet. That said, I agree.

What part of the development process is given to the animations? I always assumed it was pretty early.

As a whole it looked good, but the combat and animations...didn't. Still, looking forward to seeing more of it!

 

[Thunderbear]

What part of the development process is given to the animations? I always assumed it was pretty early.

As a whole it looked good, but the combat and animations...didn't. Still, looking forward to seeing more of it!

Well there's often polish but if this is as close to final as DD is saying, then there should be just tweaks here and there.

As it looks now, every single animation that they've displayed doesn't just need fine-tuning, it needs an overhaul. If they are key-framing everything then that will take a long time. I doubt the final animations will be much different than what we are seeing.

Graphically the game looks pretty nice (some stuff even looks awesome) and concepts sound decent (co-op and massive rpg world is nice). Without the combat which seems to be a big part of it, it falls flat on its face for me. It just looks so rigid and stiff.

 

[Petrarca]

Well, final anims might not be there...indeed, I find it hard to believe those are final by any means...still just placeholders, I bet. That said, I agree.

I doubt that the animations in the final product will look any different, in the final phase of development you only tweak minor stuff here and there, not major ones like how your character swing his swords/jumps, etc

 

[DSN2K]

the combat looks iffy still, cutscenes and the world well look impressive.... gonna be a deep game and you can see alot has gone into it.

One thing I seriously hate is when developers talk about sequels before the game has even been a proven success.

 

[MightyHedgehog]

What part of the development process is given to the animations? I always assumed it was pretty early.

As a whole it looked good, but the combat and animations...didn't. Still, looking forward to seeing more of it!

IME, which is admittedly archaic by comparison of a 2007 next-gen game, the final anims aren't dropped in until the very end. Before that, it's just enough to do it by hand for illustrative purposes prior to and during alpha. I guess it varies depending on whether it's 2D bitmaps or 3D models that need to hit final stage after everything else that it depends on working with is done (after the coders hit feature complete part of the tech. running everything and dictating what final triangle budgets are, memory budgets for world textures, etc.) and then can be properly rigged for final animation after final models are approved.

 

[FFChris]

Maybe the combat gets more fluid as you learn new moves (level up) after all, the character shown was only Lv1.

I won't hold my breath though...

 

[watership]

Did they actually invest in real action actors/choreographers?

I mean for the love of god, they just can't get it right. When you look at DMC or NG, you can see the action animations look smooth and natural, but when you look at Too Human, you feel like playing a robot, heck maybe that's what they're aiming for, since mechanic is the theme of the game

Japanese developers tend to have the engine optomized with few assets early, like in Lost Planets demo or in early DMC4 footage.. while Western developers tend to build the engine, then the assets, then optimize for framerate and polish in the end.

When is this game out anyway?

 

[MightyHedgehog]

I doubt that the animations in the final product will look any different, in the final phase of development you only tweak minor stuff here and there, not major ones like how your character swing his swords/jumps, etc

There is no way a melee heavy game like this can ship with that animation. It's just so artificial and robotic. It just needs new animation and a lot of dynamic tweaking while each anim plays out. Some dramatic pauses at the apex of a strike on an enemy would be cool, too. I liked that in Soul Calibur and Zelda WW. It was far more subtle in the SC games, though. The Japanese have a very particular tendency in using less movement to do more...kinda like Anime, in general. Lots of small animations that can chain and blend into another well.

 

[Thunderbear]

IME, which is admittedly archaic by comparison of a 2007 next-gen game, the final anims aren't dropped in until the very end. Before that, it's just enough to do it by hand for illustrative purposes prior to and during alpha. I guess it varies depending on whether it's 2D bitmaps or 3D models that need to hit final stage after everything else that it depends on working with is done (after the coders hit feature complete part of the tech. running everything and dictating what final triangle budgets are, memory budgets for world textures, etc.) and then can be properly rigged for final animation after final models are approved.

Maybe it's different places but out of the 10 or so titles I've worked on, the animations are done in tandem (well as soon as the models have been finalized, though there are tools for that these days to make it easier to change the model) so if we are at 90% of the game, don't expect to see a massive difference at the end.

Unless Silicon Knights have some unique way of working that I haven't been subjected to.

 

[QVT]

IME, which is admittedly archaic by comparison of a 2007 next-gen game, the final anims aren't dropped in until the very end. Before that, it's just enough to do it by hand for illustrative purposes prior to and during alpha. I guess it varies depending on whether it's 2D bitmaps or 3D models that need to hit final stage after everything else that it depends on working with is done (after the coders hit feature complete part of the tech. running everything and dictating what final triangle budgets are, memory budgets for world textures, etc.) and then can be properly rigged for final animation after final models are approved.

Thanks for that. It seems we're likely 6 months away from this right now then, or more.

 

[Fredrik]

Wow, it looks great even in 320x240 now. Impressive environments and great design. I like the action too and the camera zoom during certain moves. They need to upload a HD teaser trailer from this build with this type of developer narration on Marketplace.

 

[Rlan]

You know I got jokes!

 

[mr_nothin]

has come a long way but seriously...
still meh

and dennis dyack is so stupid and he's a hippo

Spoiler

-crit

just finished watching, it looks ok
this goes into my 'on the fence' basket

looks good for a 'balders gate' type of game
too bad i dont think that, that was what they were going for

 

[Akira]

They made the game look better. But they didn't realize that people's biggest complaint was the animation/combat (and bad art lol). They should've smoothed out the animation and combat before going into polishing of graphics.

 

[MightyHedgehog]

Maybe it's different places but out of the 10 or so titles I've worked on, the animations are done in tandem (well as soon as the models have been finalized, though there are tools for that these days to make it easier to change the model) so if we are at 90% of the game, don't expect to see a massive difference at the end.

Unless Silicon Knights have some unique way of working that I haven't been subjected to.

Dude, I don't come from a modern or console background. It's more like really small group in someone's house doing little things to make some money. You probably deal in the industry standard and are far more in the modern and professional way of doing it.

 

[mr_nothin]

I love the setting and how deep the story seems though!

 

[Petrarca]

They made the game look better. But they didn't realize that people's biggest complaint was the animation/combat (and bad art lol). They should've smoothed out the animation and combat before going into polishing of graphics.

I think we should tell him

Hey Dennis, the CHARACTER ANIMATIONS DURING COMBAT SUCKS!! THEY LOOK STIFF

 

[mr_nothin]

So Lair in july confirmed

 

[Thunderbear]

Dude, I don't come from a modern or console background. It's more like really small group in someone's house doing little things to make some money. You probably deal in the industry standard and are far more in the modern and professional way of doing it.

Well let's just hope that what they got are place holders and they are planning on swapping in final animations because it seems the general conscensous are that they aren't working at the moment.

Considering how long it's been in development, I find that unlikely . Which is a shame because it does look like it has potential to be a very fun game.

 

[The S-Word]

eh went from complete crap to generic crap.

-S

 

[GHG]

So Lair in july confirmed

Bad news IMO. The game doesn't look anywhere near polished enough. They should spend a bit more time on it to make it a great game rather than just a good/decent one.

 

[MightyHedgehog]

Well let's just hope that what they got are place holders and they are planning on swapping in final animations because it seems the general conscensous are that they aren't working at the moment.

Considering how long it's been in development, I find that unlikely . Which is a shame because it does look like it has potential to be a very fun game.

It'd be the biggest mistake to ship animating anything like what was in that vid, fo sho.

 

[mr_nothin]

Bad news IMO. The game doesn't look anywhere near polished enough. They should spend a bit more time on it to make it a great game rather than just a good/decent one.

Well Shane said that Factor 5 said that their game making process allows them to go from alpha to the finished game rather quickly (which includes polish)
They are currently at alpha right now, which means that the game is done (feature wise and mostly content wise also)
They just have to go and fix bugs and polish it

 

[Fredrik]

I think we should tell him

Hey Dennis, the CHARACTER ANIMATIONS DURING COMBAT SUCKS!! THEY LOOK STIFF

They doesn't suck. But the sword slashes need some more weight. It looks like he's using a plastic sword. They should look at the animations in Dead Rising to get the weight and power slashes right.

But the game still looks great and fun to play. And the day I let weak animations decide my game purchases I'll stop playing video games. Back in the days a sword slash could consist of 1 or 2 frames and I still loved the games.

 

[BboyDubC]

Hmmm this thread should be locked or joined to the other thread. We are carrying on parallel conversations about the gameplay/impressions: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=6088130&posted=1#post6088130