Support NeoGAF

[Grizzlyjin]

Well...people have different standards towards what constitutes good drama. Did I find Episode 3 of Sword Art Online all that compelling and emotional? Not especially. Actually I think that after this episode I skipped ahead to the Episode 12 or 13. Then I watched 14 and 15 and never went back. There are worse shows, it just isn't terribly interesting most of the time. Still better than Deadman Wonderland. :|

Maybe us anime fans make too much of a stink about filler material. Yeah, overall it never impacts the overall story since it can't contradict canon material. But a competent team could come up with a good original story, even restrained by the fact that they can't really leave any lasting threads. I can't speak for every Bleach fan, but I don't even know if the quality of the filler arcs was the issue, I think it had more to do with the fact that they were occurring between canon arcs. So you'd have Ichigo in the middle of an important fight, then the story would jump to something else for several weeks. I think the stop and go filler is more detrimental to the weekly viewer's enjoyment, compared to longer filler arcs.

I think it just depends on your knowledge of the source material. For someone that only watches Bleach on Toonami and doesn't read the Viz manga or scans, you just enjoy it for what it is. But when you do have knowledge of upcoming arcs, you're just waiting and waiting for something to get animated.

And if Toonami can't get Shippuden, I think they should just move on after they run through the episodes of Naruto they have. Reairing something so long would be a bit tiresome, especially after over a year of filler episodes.

My feelings towards filler material are starting to mellow out with age. Like most American animated shows are original, not adaptations. So it's not like there isn't the potential for filler arcs to be good...it just doesn't happen often.

I wonder what the "average Toonami viewer" is like. Do they only watch dubbed anime? Is this their first experience with a lot of these shows? Are Toonami and adult swim their primary method of watching these shows?

 

[Doctor Decimate]

the Tumblr said the average Toonami viewer is just people watching what's on TV at the time

 

[grandjedi6]

the Tumblr said the average Toonami viewer is just people watching what's on TV at the time

well of course it is. The average every channel viewer is just people watching what's on TV at the time

 

[Doctor Decimate]

well of course it is. The average every channel viewer is just people watching what's on TV at the time

which likely means most of the people watching Toonami aren't big into anime.

 

[SAB CA]

i don't see what you guys see in Big O. that particular episode had a pretty mediocre story (as usual) and i didn't think the action was much to write home about.

because she died in like 10 minutes. if they're going to be this blatant about the tear-jerking, the least they can do is be competent about it.

No Big O season II stuff is as good as I, as far as I feel. This episode works for me because Sherry Lynn (Sasami on Tenchi Muyo, Faye's young voice in "Speak like a Child" on Bebop) makes every little girl cute and loveable.

And "died in 10 min" doesn't really mean anything, if a character gets one to care for them within that time. I understand how one could hate the obvious set up (very strongly, ha), but for a watcher who isn't as cynical as many are here, it hit the proper notes.

I don't think it was incompetent, I just think it was "below expectations" for any who've seen better. But for those who haven't, or don't care if they have? Perfectly effective.

SAO isn't emotionally believable and neither are those emotionally manipulative Key/KyoAni moe otaku cry fests. I say this as someone who played Clannad and thought the "true" route girl was inferior, useless and stupid compared to the others. Then again..That's how a lot of anime fans seem to like their women so..

That's easily a "this wasn't for you" situation, though. I always watch such shows with a firm grasp that this is a Japanese-born dream concept of a girl / woman, and I can see the appeal, but also the annoyance.

Where one sees strength, others see a passive attitude. What some see as feminine and charming, others see as weak and insulting. I took all the Clannad sob-stories (anime) very seriously, but by the time I saw them approaching in Angel Beats!, I had to grin at the "WELL ISN'T THAT CONVENIENT?!?" nature of it, lol.

Though I think Key's characters end up much better developed than Casshern's oddly immature tear-jerk moments, personally. Different strokes for each person!

This would work if the series was well written, or her death had been a tragic one IE throwing herself in front of an attack that would have killed Kirito. Instead we get Kirito lying about his level and letting her and the other guild members fall into a trap that he knew about and could have warned them if he had been open and honest from the beginning.

I find it quite tragic that she saw herself as having to reply on ultimately weak people. Every tragedy doesn't have to be written the same way... and I actually found it quite pleasant she didn't have the usual list of regrets, or made such a straight-forward sacrifice. Those would really be just as eye-rolling as the "finding a treasure chest in a secret room? LETS OPEN IT!" situation was itself.

And I actually like the fact that Kirito had a selfish decision (lying about his level, to keep from being pushed up onto a higher responsibility pedestal) bit him back with a very public consequence (the death of friends.) Lying about his level is no more surprising then a Rich person lying about how much money they have, to avoid special treatment. This fits in especially well when you consider the underlying caste system of Japan, and how much such ideals still creep up, even today.

Also I believe this story line was not in the original essay but was later added to expand upon Kirito's time in SAO and explain why he doesn't want to join a guild. In the original story he just didn't want to join a guild because of "bad experiences" or something and this added chapter/episode is meant to show that.

I actually think it did a good job at explaining that, then. (Minus the guild leadr committing suicide. To me, that was overboard melodrama.) The episode was actually pleasant for me, because it was full of "this isn't going as I expected" moments.

First, I thought he WOULDN'T join a guild, to start.

Then, from what's being discussed here on the show, I would have expected Sachi and

Kirito's relationship to be a lot more unlikable. Minus the obvious creeping desires towards upskirt views of her, and her sleeping in his bed, they kept the friendship / display of it all pretty sweet.

I then thought it'd be a mimic that killed her friend, rather than "room full of spawnbomb", ha. And then lastly, I expected her to face death much more pitifully; without fighting back, panic / mentally broken from the horrors around her, or with an obvious sacrifice.

But they avoided all that, and everything done after her death made her a stronger, more sympathetic character from that point on. They kept her "odd girl out in a boys-dominated club" mentality in full effect, without spilling into the more creepy "onii-san!" older-boy-worship territory. She looked and acted more satisfied with her sad lot in life than she had any right to be, and instead of putting Kirito through a guilt trip over how he could have corrected all that was wrong, she put him, and how he'd feel first, even when she knew she was facing death. She put HIM first, even when he was ultimately being selfish for the entire time they knew each other.

Her humming of Rudolph fit too, because it encapsulated her character: An oddball who was different than the rest of the group she was in. This is all it meant to her. But to Kirito, he takes the other side of the tale: not only were you the odd one, but also the most well remembered, afterwards, with a different strength that'll be remembered.

And that's to be his lesson. The weakest person in the group teaches him a new way to be strong. That gives her brief screen-time a legacy with us (assuming he actually learns something from this.) Which is the kind of situation I kept wishing would happen with Thundercats, actually.

I guess I'm just saying I've seen much worse, and that the quality doesn't seem as bad as many here would lead me to feel... for now. Though I'm excited to see when the train wrecks will start...

 

[BassForever]

stuff

I don't want to spoil upcoming events later in the series so I don't really want to post my whole thoughts, though I will agree with you that her death is handled better then later events in the series.

 

[Doctor Decimate]

No Big O season II stuff is as good as I, as far as I feel. This episode works for me because Sherry Lynn (Sasami on Tenchi Muyo, Faye's young voice in "Speak like a Child" on Bebop) makes every little girl cute and loveable.

And "died in 10 min" doesn't really mean anything, if a character gets one to care for them within that time. I understand how one could hate the obvious set up (very strongly, ha), but for a watcher who isn't as cynical as many are here, it hit the proper notes.

I don't think it was incompetent, I just think it was "below expectations" for any who've seen better. But for those who haven't, or don't care if they have? Perfectly effective.

well, that's the thing. i put this about on par with season 1, because season 1 had a lot of totally underwhelming one-off stories, too. to me, when judging the quality of a Big O episode it more or less became about how well the other elements offset the weak storytelling.

and i don't see how a character that's been around for 10 minutes and done nothing more than cozy up to the "PROTECT ME" archetype warrants any sort of emotion. i'm pretty sure most of these people are just sad because it was a cute girl who showed interest in the protagonist.

 

[Marmaladefire]

That's easily a "this wasn't for you" situation, though. I always watch such shows with a firm grasp that this is a Japanese-born dream concept of a girl / woman, and I can see the appeal, but also the annoyance.

Where one sees strength, others see a passive attitude. What some see as feminine and charming, others see as weak and insulting. I took all the Clannad sob-stories (anime) very seriously, but by the time I saw them approaching in Angel Beats!, I had to grin at the "WELL ISN'T THAT CONVENIENT?!?" nature of it, lol.

Though I think Key's characters end up much better developed than Casshern's oddly immature tear-jerk moments, personally. Different strokes for each person!

I will agree on one thing, I wasn't crying over any of Casshern's cast, though I did think the execution was better than SAO and was less patronizing to its viewers than a Key show.
Those women are just children who otaku want to fantasize about controlling ("protecting") though. This isn't for me or anyone else who doesn't subscribe to "3D disgusting pig" theory. It doesn't even fall into the stereotypes of a "good" Japanese housewife and mother (which, while "delicate" is NOT a useless love doll) unless feminine charm now means "She probably couldn't even be trusted to take care of a goldfish for a weekend. What a keeper!"

"Sorry I can't boil a pot of water, but I'm cute right?"
"Sorry I trip over everything all day and literally have the motor skills of a toddler, but you still want to touch me right?"
"Sorry I have a speaking patterns that dictates that I should make animal noises at the end of my sentences, but it's not like you really want me to say anything that makes any sense anyway"

I'd rather the world be taken over by Tsunderes then more of that

 

[SAB CA]

I don't want to spoil upcoming events later in the series so I don't really want to post my whole thoughts, though I will agree with you that her death is handled better then later events in the series.

Understandable! A lot of what I'm saying assumes much, so I can understand it being hard to reply to.

I can say though, the theme of ep 2 and 3 seem a bit at odds to me. Or many 3 clears up his thoughts during 2? To go from making a "sacrifice myself, to make others work together better!" end, to a "I must remember, it's not all about me!" theme back to back does feel a bit odd.

well, that's the thing. i put this about on par with season 1, because season 1 had a lot of totally underwhelming one-off stories, too. to me, when judging the quality of a Big O episode it more or less became about how well the other elements offset the weak storytelling.

I always felt S2 had a weak story (because it lost a lot of the noir / detective bend, and became Eva-imitating mind-frag fodder), but S1 I thought did a nice job at blending western Noir with something that made NO SENSE in the genre, a hulking giant robot. The themes of regret, loss, and desperately trying to get back something sacred... that you couldn't even remember, were nice.

and i don't see how a character that's been around for 10 minutes and done nothing more than cozy up to the "PROTECT ME" archetype warrants any sort of emotion. i'm pretty sure most of these people are just sad because it was a cute girl who showed interest in the protagonist.

Ehhh... I dunno, that doesn't really gel with me. Most of the people who get emotional over character deaths seem to do it because it hits close to home, not because of the character relationship itself. (Though that's 100% why the "shippers" care, I guess.)

Do I need to meet a child, to feel bad about them being killed when led into a building by an adult? Nope. I feel bad because I think "they didn't even want to be there! They died because of association with a dominant individual that led them there!"

Not to mention, unlike Bleach's "Herre's a 10 minute backstory to explain how you should sympathize!", they kinda left our feelings for her as something we had to infer from a few scenes, and the knowledge that a relationship had forged during a time skip. It was surprisingly subtle, which leaves enough up to our imaginations, to let those who want draw even MORE reasons to feel.

 

[Doctor Decimate]

I always felt S2 had a weak story (because it lost a lot of the noir / detective bend, and became Eva-imitating mind-frag fodder), but S1 I thought did a nice job at blending western Noir with something that made NO SENSE in the genre, a hulking giant robot. The themes of regret, loss, and desperately trying to get back something sacred... that you couldn't even remember, were nice.

i dunno, maybe i'm focusing more on the monster of week plots than people typically do.

Ehhh... I dunno, that doesn't really gel with me. Most of the people who get emotional over character deaths seem to do it because it hits close to home, not because of the character relationship itself. (Though that's 100% why the "shippers" care, I guess.)

Do I need to meet a child, to feel bad about them being killed when led into a building by an adult? Nope. I feel bad because I think "they didn't even want to be there! They died because of association with a dominant individual that led them there!"

Not to mention, unlike Bleach's "Herre's a 10 minute backstory to explain how you should sympathize!", they kinda left our feelings for her as something we had to infer from a few scenes, and the knowledge that a relationship had forged during a time skip. It was surprisingly subtle, which leaves enough up to our imaginations, to let those who want draw even MORE reasons to feel.

and i fail to see how this could ever hit close to home outside of "hey, that's a cute girl who died."

in most contexts, "a child died" is shamelessly manipulative bullshit used because the writer(s) can't come up with a way to create real emotional impact, so they use it as a crutch. this probably fits under the same label. they stamped "TO BE PROTECTED" on her forehead and then watched the waterworks from people who decided not to give it a moment of thought.

so what you're saying is they substituted character development for a timeskip. subtlety gets you nowhere fast in the realm of characters that last 10 minutes before being dumped on the corpse pile, and i think you're giving this show a lot more credit than it deserves by overthinking this. hell, the last episode they pulled the same crap with a character we literally knew nothing about.

 

[SAB CA]

I will agree on one thing, I wasn't crying over any of Casshern's cast, though I did think the execution was better than SAO and was less patronizing to its viewers than a Key show.

Eh... I don't agree. One thing I love about (just talking the anime, haven't played any of the games) Key's characters is that their experiences layer throughout their actions. Instead of "parents died in a crash, so I hate planes!", they go for "hate planes, but love traveling, since that's why parents were on a plane in the first place! I might hate the airport, but I like stuffed bears... because that's the last thing I saw mom holding, before she boarded the plane!"

They don't take anything at face value; they use every element of a situation to write their narratives, which feels a step above what many stories (anime or not) do, to me.

Those women are just children who otaku want to fantasize about controlling ("protecting") though. This isn't for me or anyone else who doesn't subscribe to "3D disgusting pig" theory. It doesn't even fall into the stereotypes of a "good" Japanese housewife and mother (which, while "delicate" is NOT a useless love doll) unless feminine charm now means "She probably couldn't even be trusted to take care of a goldfish for a weekend. What a keeper!"

Also can't agree, though I can say I do think they might overuse the "sucks at one thing, great at another" trait a bit too much sometimes.

Ironically, I think they play your stated perception directly off the viewers in their shows, and basically say back "this is what you'd think about her... if you didn't get to know her.

Like with Nagisa in Clannad. She's weak on the outside physically... but the fact that she tried so hard to do what other people take for granted, while having to put forth 2X the effort for it, shows that she's actually "internally" strong, which is what they're saying matters most.

Key goes to lengths to basically create a character that balances and equalizes VS their expected viewer / their in show significant other. What one has physically or mentally, the other lacks. Since they can cover for each other, they end up making an ideal couple.

"Sorry I can't boil a pot of water, but I'm cute right?"
"Sorry I trip over everything all day and literally have the motor skills of a toddler, but you still want to touch me right?"
"Sorry I have a speaking patterns that dictates that I should make animal noises at the end of my sentences, but it's not like you really want me to say anything that makes any sense anyway"

I'd rather the world be taken over by Tsunderes then more of that

They like to juxtapose conflicting elements together into a character, and then explain how such different concepts can come from the same individual. With a fairly small dash of "anime ridiculous" added in for good measure.

I actually think that's something I like about them (even if it get's predictable!), that they put some time into making it work.

 

[Branduil]

KEY stuff is often pretty bad in terms of contrived melodrama and often guilty of being "tragedy porn," but even the worst KEY stuff looks like the work of Sophocles compared SAO's attempts at tragedy. Well, maybe not; Angel Beats is also pretty terrible.

 

[SAB CA]

i dunno, maybe i'm focusing more on the monster of week plots than people typically do.

Maybe. "MotW" Stuff never bothered me in S1, but the world was so fresh (Anime Batman TAS?! WITH Giant Robots?!? SOLD!) that I was sold pretty quickly, and still feel fond of the S1 eps if I catch one somewhere.

and i fail to see how this could ever hit close to home outside of "hey, that's a cute girl who died."

Why? You never knew a mousey person that got pulled along behind a group that made all their decisions for them? Or never personally WAS the person being pulled along in such, at any time in life?

in most contexts, "a child died" is shamelessly manipulative bullshit used because the writer(s) can't come up with a way to create real emotional impact, so they use it as a crutch. this probably fits under the same label. they stamped "TO BE PROTECTED" on her forehead and then watched the waterworks from people who decided not to give it a moment of thought.

I was actually saying it as a Real Life example, not one of writing. I actually took less from the "protection!" angle, and more from that scene early on, when one of the guys talks about how dependent/weak she is, and then says to Kirito "See, we always joke around like that!" or something of the sort. What he thinks is just a light remark probably really hurt her.

so what you're saying is they substituted character development for a timeskip. subtlety gets you nowhere fast in the realm of characters that last 10 minutes before being dumped on the corpse pile, and i think you're giving this show a lot more credit than it deserves by overthinking this. hell, the last episode they pulled the same crap with a character we literally knew nothing about.

I'm saying they did in 24 minutes what many anime would spend 4 episodes on... but with about the same amount of emotional impact. Not saying it couldn't have been done better, but I don't think it was as badly done as many here seem to think (and I think what appears to be widespread remembrance of her character seems to prove this, too.)

Eh, I only find it overthinking, if the show doesn't give hints to support itself. I felt like it did enough (with the title, and the comments made to and about her) to let you see that this was a bit more than the most basic "girl needs protecting because GIRL!" plot.

I probably am giving it more credit than needed though, because it didn't effect ME so much that I thought I'd be talking about it still, the day after, haha.

KEY stuff is often pretty bad in terms of contrived melodrama and often guilty of being "tragedy porn," but even the worst KEY stuff looks like the work of Sophocles compared SAO's attempts at tragedy. Well, maybe not; Angel Beats is also pretty terrible.

The biggest problem I had with Angel Beats (just saw it a week or 2 ago for the first time!) was that main character went from shooting "Angel" one night, to then asking "but did anyone think about how SHE feels?" very fast.

Everything else I can't feel too negative about, since the show seemed to have been SURPRISE! SERIES CUT IN HALF! in mid production, so I don't think they reached the end that they would have liked...

Overall though, I feel KEY's "flawed, but loveable" characters are similar to super-hero anti heroes; their strength is that they're not perfect, and therefore, more "real" to the audience. But their weakness is that the dichotomy they portray may been too severe, that it's off-putting to anyone who things "there's no way those 2 things can co-exist, and get THAT result!"

I'd rather put up with a city of KEY characters, than a roomful of the cast of "AMC's The Walking Dead", for comparison...

 

[Doctor Decimate]

Why? You never knew a mousey person that got pulled along behind a group that made all their decisions for them? Or never personally WAS the person being pulled along in such, at any time in life?

that's not really an excuse, though. i shouldn't feel bad because i know somebody like that in real life, i should feel bad because the show made me care about that character.

I was actually saying it as a Real Life example, not one of writing. I actually took less from the "protection!" angle, and more from that scene early on, when one of the guys talks about how dependent/weak she is, and then says to Kirito "See, we always joke around like that!" or something of the sort. What he thinks is just a light remark probably really hurt her.

i think the protection angle came through loud and clear when Kirito said he was going to protect her, and then she crawled into his bed like a scared child. this is little more than shallow pandering and laughably poor tear-jerking, yet people somehow fell for it.

I'm saying they did in 24 minutes what many anime would spend 4 episodes on... but with about the same amount of emotional impact. Not saying it couldn't have been done better, but I don't think it was as badly done as many here seem to think (and I think what appears to be widespread remembrance of her character seems to prove this, too.)

it absolutely did not. the length of time this took place completely robbed it of anything resembling emotional attachment to any of these characters. we watched some cannon fodder serve as cannon fodder, not watch characters we care about get gunned down. if this lasted even just one whole episode instead of a fourth of an episode and they developed into people we cared about, the improvement would be astronomical. or they could just kill Klein and do this with a character we'd actually feel something for.

 

[Jintor]

Why is it so hard to believe Sachi's death actually hit people strongly? It actually felt similar to the feels Casshern would strive for in many an episode: a 1 off mini-tale with a tragic character.

She was a cute, plain (y'know, for anime!) character that accepted her position in life, and looked on with a fairly brave face. We didn't need to know her long, because she's an archetype most can say "I know someone like that...!" with. (And if not, you've probably seen a similar character in anime, like Nodoka from Negima...)

The Christmas Message isn't so far-fetched; you can delay posting messages on things like Tumblr or such. I actually thought it was a nice "trying desperately to find ways to live on, beyond your own strength!" style situation; a game-centric way of leaving a diary.

Even the timeskips work in the favor of the situation; the longer one stays in a "this game is my life!" situation, the less they think about it in "game" terms, and more in "life" terms. The further we go, the more we get away from "A couple of normal kids are fighting in a game world", and the closer we get to "young kids are fighting in a reality not unlike out own!" fantasy.

And really, as much filler as anime has, whenever they can tell a story in a quick, compressed format, I'm actually happy. And I was VERY surprised with the fact there seems to be a decent amount of fandom for her online... Who cosplays a 1-off insta-kill? People who connect with their stories...

Man, if we ever had Clannad or Angel Beats! on Toonami...

I've felt more for a two-sketch character who turned up twice in Daily Lives of High School Boys whose life revolved around a single incredibly-delivered joke than I did for poor moeblob melodrama gal.

 

[Raxus]

Wow pages and pages of text all about waifus. Where is Andrex when you need him?

P.S. I will not feel sorry for characters that trip obvious traps and run into a room after a trap is sprung. Then clutter up my email with their stupid songs. Damn it you clingly bitch!

 

[ThatObviousUser]

Spoiler

Its all meaningless in the end though since Shippuden sucks

I like it better than the OG series. Better fights and Naruto isn't nearly as annoying.

 

[ThatObviousUser]

Wow pages and pages of text all about waifus. Where is Andrex when you need him?

What did you expect me to do?

I'm staying out of this one~

Good morning Toonami-GAF.

Hope you're ready for Bleach and One Piece filler. Mwahahahaha.

 

[B-Dubs]

I've felt more for a two-sketch character who turned up twice in Daily Lives of High School Boys whose life revolved around a single incredibly-delivered joke than I did for poor moeblob melodrama gal.

Agreed.

If you want to see deaths done well, we'll have to wait for Shippuden. For all it's faults, damn can it kill a guy and make it mean something.

 

[SAB CA]

that's not really an excuse, though. i shouldn't feel bad because i know somebody like that in real life, i should feel bad because the show made me care about that character.

But one can be led to care about a character in a variety of ways. Some ways fit 5 minutes of time, some fit 30.

I do think the best characters (for me anyway) are the ones I can relate back to some grounding of reality. I guess that's why, say, I cared more for a death in GitS:SAC than one in Casshern, but more for Maes Huges in either FMA than either of those; the more human ones got more feelings.

i think the protection angle came through loud and clear when Kirito said he was going to protect her, and then she crawled into his bed like a scared child. this is little more than shallow pandering and laughably poor tear-jerking, yet people somehow fell for it.

Eh, they fell for it because it worked for them. I was sketchin though a lot of it, so I didn't get to hang on the visual details as much, but I think all I noted about her being in bed with him was "hmmm. that was less creepy than expected!"

it absolutely did not. the length of time this took place completely robbed it of anything resembling emotional attachment to any of these characters. we watched some cannon fodder serve as cannon fodder, not watch characters we care about get gunned down. if this lasted even just one whole episode instead of a fourth of an episode and they developed into people we cared about, the improvement would be astronomical. or they could just kill Klein and do this with a character we'd actually feel something for.

I understand how it could feel shallow to many. But what I'm saying is that it seems to have worked much better than you're giving it credit for.

While searching for refs for pics, I'm often either surprised of disappointed by how little certain ones are remembered. Even for modern shows... Sachi for some reason has fanarts, and pro or amateur cosplay directed at her. Surprising to me! Such a tale regularly gets no exposure, no love, no matter how tragic the character is. Yet, for some reason, her story seems to stand out... must have done SOMETHING right for SOMEONE, right?

Son, I've felt more for a two-sketch character who turned up twice in Daily Lives of High School Boys whose life revolved around a single joke, incredibly-delivered joke than I did for poor moeblob melodrama gal.

I don't even know what that is- *ahem*

Anywho... "waifu wars"? How is... Hey, did you like the way I tried to draw Udai from Cowboy Bebop in a Boondocks animation-like style? Yeah, that was kinda cool, right?

 

[Doctor Decimate]

But one can be led to care about a character in a variety of ways. Some ways fit 5 minutes of time, some fit 30.

I do think the best characters (for me anyway) are the ones I can relate back to some grounding of reality. I guess that's why, say, I cared more for a death in GitS:SAC than one in Casshern, but more for Maes Huges in either FMA than either of those; the more human ones got more feelings.

i do not believe 10 minutes is enough to make me care about a character that has done nothing terribly profound. Hughes worked because he was built up in the series for a long time. this is why his death resonated. SAO can't so much as dream about having that sort of impact if it continues to kill off characters as soon as it introduces them.

and i don't believe it working for some people excuses it from criticism or addresses it in any way, shape, or form.

 

[Seda]

I watched the first episode of Yu Yu Hakusho. For no real reason.

First of all, I think I've seen WAY more of this show than I remember. Like, things are starting to come back to me. Forgotten nostalgia is such a weird feeling.

Second, Laura Bailey in the first episode! I thought I was safe from her with this show being a bit older! Also King Bradley's VA and the FMA:B narrator/Father

Third, Yusuke's wake was more emotional than last nights SAO.

 

[B-Dubs]

I watched the first episode of Yu Yu Hakusho. For no real reason.

First of all, I think I've seen WAY more of this show than I remember. Like, things are starting to come back to me. Forgotten nostalgia is such a weird feeling.

Second, Laura Bailey in the first episode! I thought I was safe from her with this show being a bit older! Also King Bradley's VA and the FMA:B narrator/Father

Third, Yusuke's wake was more emotional than last nights SAO.

No doubt. They made Yusuke's death mean something pretty quickly. That first episode is very very good character work as I've said before. You get the measure of everyone in those 24 minutes and even start to like them.

 

[SAB CA]

i do not believe 10 minutes is enough to make me care about a character that has done nothing terribly profound. Hughes worked because he was built up in the series for a long time. this is why his death resonated. SAO can't so much as dream about having that sort of impact if it continues to kill off characters as soon as it introduces them.

and i don't believe it working for some people excuses it from criticism or addresses it in any way, shape, or form.

And that's all personal, and that's cool! I can totally understand and agree on some level, all I'm saying is that in the subject of "what it good, ok, bad, or horrifically abysmal", I think it's closer to "Ok", than "Horr-Ab", because it seemed to get the desired effect out of a good amount of it's intended audience.

Also never said it should be excused from criticism (the very discussion of the subject is bringing it critical judgment); I just find some of it overblown (on both sides, actually), but I guess that's a common way for fandom / criticism now-a-days; heavily pro, or heavily against.

I watched the first episode of Yu Yu Hakusho. For no real reason.

First of all, I think I've seen WAY more of this show than I remember. Like, things are starting to come back to me. Forgotten nostalgia is such a weird feeling.

Second, Laura Bailey in the first episode! I thought I was safe from her with this show being a bit older! Also King Bradley's VA and the FMA:B narrator/Father

Third, Yusuke's wake was more emotional than last nights SAO.

I always felt bad for his mom. Though Yusuke's "Who, Me?" picture always made me think that the pic was actually shot right before he got ran over, which made it feel slightly tongue-in-cheek for me, even if that wasn't intended.

I didn't remember Bailey being tied to the show either, but then again, I don't want to personally associate her with kid Trunks, either...

I think I saw part of 3x3 eyes YEARS before I saw Yu Yu too... Yusuke got off a lot better than that similar situation!

 

[Seda]

No doubt. They made Yusuke's death mean something pretty quickly. That first episode is very very good character work as I've said before. You get the measure of everyone in those 24 minutes and even start to like them.

I'm not going to watch through the show quite yet, but it'll be coming up.

Sorry if this is really weird, especially to those of you who have been familiar with the show for several years, but I had this sort of nostalgia-gasm when Kuwabara spoke. Like "holy-shit-I-had-totally-forgotten-about-this-voice-but-I-now-remember-it-so-clearly-wth!"

Memory is weird.

 

[ThatObviousUser]

"hmmm. that was less creepy than expected!"

They should put this quote on the Sword Art Online Blu-ray set.

Yet, for some reason, her story seems to stand out... must have done SOMETHING right for SOMEONE, right?

If there's one thing Sword Art Online knows how to do, it's how to pander to idiots and creeps. So, congrats SAO? You accomplished what you set out to do.

That does not mean it's above criticism, however.

 

[B-Dubs]

I'm not going to watch through the show quite yet, but it'll be coming up.

Sorry if this is really weird, especially to those of you who have been familiar with the show for several years, but I had this sort of nostalgia-gasm when Kuwabara spoke. Like "holy-shit-I-had-totally-forgotten-about-this-voice-but-I-now-remember-it-so-clearly-wth!"

Memory is weird.

Kuwabara's voice is the best. All the voices are really good, especially considering when the dub is from. I remember the first time I watched it again recently, for the first time since after it aired on Toonami, and I had the same reaction. Everything just came rushing back.

 

[Grizzlyjin]

I watched the first episode of Yu Yu Hakusho. For no real reason.

First of all, I think I've seen WAY more of this show than I remember. Like, things are starting to come back to me. Forgotten nostalgia is such a weird feeling.

Second, Laura Bailey in the first episode! I thought I was safe from her with this show being a bit older! Also King Bradley's VA and the FMA:B narrator/Father

Third, Yusuke's wake was more emotional than last nights SAO.

I did the exact same thing about two weeks ago. Except I've never watched any of Yu Yu before. I liked the first episode, didn't really feel like watching anymore though. Decided to go through Hunter X Hunter instead.

Now if we're talking about weird anime cravings, I put on Wolf's Rain a few hours ago for no reason at all. Some reason I just wanted to watch wolves do crazy stuff. It's better than I remember, I think it will hold up really well if I skip those 4 recap episodes.

 

[SAB CA]

They should put this quote on the Sword Art Online Blu-ray set.

I would be shocked! And confused.

If there's one thing Sword Art Online knows how to do, it's how to pander to idiots and creeps. So, congrats SAO? You accomplished what you set out to do.

That does not mean it's above criticism, however.

I don't get the strongly negative tone. "You don't think it's as bad as I did? They you're an idiot or creep!" seems overblown yet again.

As far as being "above criticism", I don't get why that comes up again.I don't think I've once stated that I thought the show was a masterpiece of our times, above reproach, and worthy of praise to the high heavens! (Take THAT out of context, DVD quotesman!)

I'm just not finding it nearly as abysmal as some of these responses would lead me to believe. Feels more like a "B" or "C" than an "F", basically.

 

[Jintor]

B is extremely generous. I could see a well-argued C.

That said

ToonamiGAF should try and write a script that would tell a short story that hits the same major points of the episode and does it better. That'd be fun!

 

[grandjedi6]

I like it better than the OG series. Better fights and Naruto isn't nearly as annoying.

Naruto as a character and Hinata

Spoiler

's breast size

are the only two things to improve in Shippuden. Everything else downgrades badly.

 

[Moaradin]

Naruto as a character and Hinata

Spoiler

's breast size

are the only two things to improve in Shippuden. Everything else downgrades badly.

Sakura is useful for at least one moment. That's a lot more than I can say to current Naruto's Sakura.

 

[Doctor Decimate]

And that's all personal, and that's cool! I can totally understand and agree on some level, all I'm saying is that in the subject of "what it good, ok, bad, or horrifically abysmal", I think it's closer to "Ok", than "Horr-Ab", because it seemed to get the desired effect out of a good amount of it's intended audience.

Also never said it should be excused from criticism (the very discussion of the subject is bringing it critical judgment); I just find some of it overblown (on both sides, actually), but I guess that's a common way for fandom / criticism now-a-days; heavily pro, or heavily against.

eh. i'd put it at "bad", but you're right it's probably not bottom-tier awfulness like we've more or less made it out to be.

 

[B-Dubs]

eh. i'd put it at "bad", but you're right it's probably not bottom-tier awfulness like we've more or less made it out to be.

I'd give it a D, you guys are right that it's not a F yet though. That said there is still plenty of time for it to screw the pooch, and it doesn't seem to be getting any better.

 

[Grizzlyjin]

I can understand not liking Sword Art Online. But I can't understand liking Deadman Wonderland and disliking Sword Art Online.

 

[MikeMyers]

Kuwabara's voice is the best.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EXSBzaT-n10

 

[Tenumi]

I can understand not liking Sword Art Online. But I can't understand liking Deadman Wonderland and disliking Sword Art Online.

I liked Deadman Wonderland because of its over-the-top violence and ridiculousness. I dislike Sword Art Online for its not-well-thought out details and

Spoiler

incest

, amongst other things.

 

[Jintor]

I can understand not liking Sword Art Online. But I can't understand liking Deadman Wonderland and disliking Sword Art Online.

The pacing is better and Ganta is more likable than Kirito imho.

Also it's easier to poke flaws in an MMO than it is in a weird prison-game-show-blood-magic thing

 

[Doctor Decimate]

I can understand not liking Sword Art Online. But I can't understand liking Deadman Wonderland and disliking Sword Art Online.

Deadman was actually fun

 

[Seda]

Deadman was stupid but it was crazy and presented in a way where it seemed like it was supposed to be seen as stupid and crazy by the viewers.

SAO is stupid but presented in a way where the viewer is supposed to take everything seriously.

My take anyway.

 

[B-Dubs]

Deadman was stupid but it was crazy and presented in a way where it seemed like it was supposed to be seen as stupid and crazy by the viewers.

SAO is stupid but presented in a way where the viewer is supposed to take everything seriously.

My take anyway.

That's the big difference. SAO has no sense of making fun of itself.

 

[Man God]

Something I've been thinking about for a few years now but its definitely true: The best and most watchable anime, especially shonen, is never deadly serious all the time.

Also I've watched almost all of YYH (while playing SMT IV to boot, so double dose of demons) and I never really appreciated how good that dub was. If you turn on the subtitles you'll really see how much of an effort they made to localize some of the jokes and the script just plain works.

There's some parts of it I don't really like but overall the story works out better than most of its genre.

 

[Gucci Messiah]

I liked Deadman Wonderland because of its over-the-top violence and ridiculousness. I dislike Sword Art Online for its not-well-thought out details and

Spoiler

incest

, amongst other things.

Spoiler

There isn't even any incest, people need to stop saying this

 

[everyday math]

Just watched Attack on Titan. I wants this on Toonami just so I can watch the opening.
Fun show so far. Pretty crazy.

 

[Grizzlyjin]

Just watched Attack on Titan. I wants this on Toonami just so I can watch the opening.
Fun show so far. Pretty crazy.

I have very mixed feelings about Attack on Titan. But I'd bet money it does end up on Toonami by the end of 2014. Funimation is going to get the video release out first, then bounce it down to Toonami. For better or worse, it is basically the breakout series of 2013. It's resonated very well with the manga and anime sub community, I imagine it will do equally well after getting dubbed.

 

[B-Dubs]

Just watched Attack on Titan. I wants this on Toonami just so I can watch the opening.
Fun show so far. Pretty crazy.

There's a reveal that happened in the manga a few months ago that I wonder how they'll adapt. Basically

Spoiler

a huge reveal happened in the background of a panel then everything went to hell in record time for this series.

I really wonder how they pull that off without messing it up.

 

[Branduil]

They should put this quote on the Sword Art Online Blu-ray set.

Unfortunately, that quote probably won't be accurate for most people by the time the show finishes.

 

[Gucci Messiah]

I just won $500, seriously debating a 3DS XL purchase

 

[Dr.Palutena]

I just won $500, seriously debating a 3DS XL purchase

Do it.

 

[everyday math]

I just won $500, seriously debating a 3DS XL purchase

Money in the bank.

Go for it!