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[antitrop]

i think you have poor taste honestly
i paid $60 for it myself and would do so again in a heartbeat... some of the most fun ive ever had, and i loved the aesthetics and soundtrack
for a big budget first person game it really felt like nothing else on the market
i can also gaurantee that "Remember Me" is going to do poorly which is too bad as its trying to atleast create a unique setting

I think Remember Me's sales are going to make Mirror's Edge look like Call of Duty. I honestly think it will sell less than Fuse.

Just for perspective, Remember Me is currently sitting at #602 in Video Games for 360 and #445 in Video Games for PS3 on Amazon. It comes out next Tuesday.

 

[unbias]

i think you have poor taste honestly

i paid $60 for it myself and would do so again in a heartbeat... some of the most fun ive ever had, and i loved the aesthetics and soundtrack

for a big budget first person game it really felt like nothing else on the market

i can also gaurantee that "Remember Me" is going to do poorly which is too bad as its trying to atleast create a unique setting

Mirrors Edge, to me, comes across as the hipster title of games, specially this gen, liked simply because of it being different, not the quality of the gameplay. Different and innovative AND fun is Beyond Good & Evil to me.

 

[Knux-Future]

The used market has little/zero impact on the pricing of new games. Quite the opposite, actually. Used games are usually $5 less than new.
The primary reason games drop is unsold inventory. Publishers fund price drops at retailers. If GameStop lowers the price of a game by $10, it's because the publisher gave them $8 or whatever per copy to do so. Then the used game falls to $5 under that new retail price.

Ever wonder why Atlas games never drop in price? Or why the best-selling games drop slowly? Same reason, not a ton of inventory sitting at retail.

That's how it works.

That is a Gamestop issue.


So once again..hash it out with them.

I'm no expert but wouldn't simply requiring more funds from them solve a ton of issues? So if they want to sell a game for 55 buck, take money from THEM for the ability to do so.

I'm just saying there are other methods that doesn't involve going in on your customer and still allows trade in, lending and rentals. Gamestop isn't gonna say no..and if they do. Take your shit away.

This entire situation is weird. It's like getting back at the kid who beats you up by setting the house next to his on fire or something.

wrong target idiot.

 

[Knux-Future]

They could always ask Nintendo how they manage to have top sales without online passes, retailer exclusive preorder bonuses, day 1 dlc etc. There are working models in the video game industry.

because someone else will call you out on this...I will do the honors.

ahem..

"Nintendo has top sales?"

 

[TangoAlphaLima]

The used market has little/zero impact on the pricing of new games. Quite the opposite, actually. Used games are usually $5 less than new.

The primary reason games drop is unsold inventory. Publishers fund price drops at retailers. If GameStop lowers the price of a game by $10, it's because the publisher gave them $8 or whatever per copy to do so. Then the used game falls to $5 under that new retail price.

Ever wonder why Atlas games never drop in price? Or why the best-selling games drop slowly? Same reason, not a ton of inventory sitting at retail.

That's how it works.

I'm not saying inventory doesn't play a role in the prices of new games, but simply ignoring the effect the used game market has on new prices is ridiculous. Publishers aren't storing Toyota Camrys, these are small packages that take up a small amount of space.

Sure, many used games are priced only $5 cheaper than new. But it doesn't take long for that to change. Here are a couple examples:

http://www.gamestop.com/xbox-360/games/dead-space-3/102440

http://www.gamestop.com/xbox-360/games/crysis-3/101535

I think inventory plays a much larger part in the used game market than it does with new games. Gamestop, for example, only has a limited amount of shelf space. If everyone is trading in their Dead Space 3 copies, Gamestop will lower their trade-in value. If Gamestop has too much used inventory, they then lower the price for the used game to move more. When the gap between the used price and the new price is too great, publishers are forced to react and lower the new price, or they'll lose a substantial number of sales to buyers of used copies.

It's clear to me that the used market, at least in part, influences the prices of new games following their release.

 

[unbias]

i can also gaurantee that "Remember Me" is going to do poorly which is too bad as its trying to atleast create a unique setting

Remember Me actually looks like a good game, not something I bought for the novelty(mirros edge). Dunno how it will match my preconceptions, but if it is a good game, it will sell well, imo. It just has to be good, and not just different or innovative.

 

[Rogue_Ledr]

Mirrors Edge, to me, comes across as the hipster title of games, specially this gen, liked simply because of it being different, not the quality of the gameplay. Different and innovative AND fun is Beyond Good & Evil to me.

BGE is the title I think is tremendously overrated.

I'd take Mirror's Edge over it in a heartbeat.

 

[Pyronite]

yeah he can't possibly believe what he's saying.

Sigh.

 

[unbias]

BGE is the title I think is tremendously overrated.

I'd take Mirror's Edge over it in a heartbeat.

Doesn't really matter, honestly, we are both liking a game that most clearly don't think are as good as we think. Although even Beyond Good and Evil, I can see why it doesn't have a large appeal. I would never get into a heated debate about which of these niche games are better for detail X vs other games detail Y.

 

[Moze]

Used games drive down the price of new games though. Steam is good and all but it cant compete with retail (atleast not in the UK)

 

[Pyronite]

Used games drive down the price of new games though. Steam is good and all but it cant compete with retail (atleast not in the UK)

Used games don't drive down the price of new games. Used games will always be cheaper than new games and will be so at a moment's notice. ALWAYS.

 

[Moze]

Used games don't drive down the price of new games. Used games will always be cheaper than new games and will be so at a moment's notice. ALWAYS.

More copies on the market = lower prices

Thats how this works

 

[borghe]

Used games drive down the price of new games though. Steam is good and all but it cant compete with retail (atleast not in the UK)

as stated before... used game prices have zero bearing on new game prices. Quite the opposite really. New game prices are based on a mix of availability and age. Used game prices are based on... new game prices. Typically used games will sell at 10-20% less than the used price.

If a new game is selling briskly and less than a year old, it will still maintain its new price. If it's selling extremely slow it will probably go on sale quickly, and price drop after that.

And of course there are platinum/GH titles. Essentially titles that are SOOOO ridiculously profitable at this point that the publisher can afford to run off a few million copies and stuff the channel with them.

More copies on the market = lower prices

Thats how this works

No it's not. It may drive down the used price very slightly, but what will happen more often than not is the game reseller will just drop the bottom out of the buyback price. Injustice currently trades in for $5.70 on Amazon. I would guess that outside of a promo at Gamestop it's similar.

edit - $27 in store credit at gamestop. meaning IIRC $18 cash trade in. Yet it's still $59 at both places.

 

[quest]

What I said in that other thread:



One thing most people do not consider when talking about used games / lending is that the current system doesn't hurt the big AAA-games. These games normally offer enough long term value (especially MP + DLC) to justify a buy.
But a smaller single-player game is a hard sale even with good quality.
I just have to look at myself: I'm borrowing (or buying-reselling) LOTS of games that I can finish in a short period of time. What does the publisher/developer get? Exactly...
And I definitely understand that this isn't exactly fair.

Maybe they should not try and sell short single player games with no replay value for 59.99. Quit over charging for games and this won't happen as much. Save the 59.99 price point for AAA games or the major franchises. Price other games starting at 49.99 and go down from there. Then games would not drop in price so fast because of piss poor sales. The lower prices also hurt the used game market as the margins drop and the risk goes up. Getting rid of used games might make publishers feel better but won't fix the fundamental issue of over priced games in todays world. This is not the 80's/90's there are a hell of a lot more choices in entertainment and gaming.

 

[Bjern Fita]

http://socialblade.com/youtube/user/Totalbiscuit

Just the first link i found on google but appears there hasn't been a mass exodus of subscribers.

 

[Opiate]

So he is, in fact, making the argument that video games are a unique special flower that deserves special treatment and that this industry cannot be fairly compared to any other industry.

 

[Moze]

as stated before... used game prices have zero bearing on new game prices. Quite the opposite really. New game prices are based on a mix of availability and age. Used game prices are based on... new game prices. Typically used games will sell at 10-20% less than the used price.

If a new game is selling briskly and less than a year old, it will still maintain its new price. If it's selling extremely slow it will probably go on sale quickly, and price drop after that.

And of course there are platinum/GH titles. Essentially titles that are SOOOO ridiculously profitable at this point that the publisher can afford to run off a few million copies and stuff the channel with them.



No it's not. It may drive down the used price very slightly, but what will happen more often than not is the game reseller will just drop the bottom out of the buyback price. Injustice currently trades in for $5.70 on Amazon. I would guess that outside of a promo at Gamestop it's similar.

edit - $27 in store credit at gamestop. meaning IIRC $18 cash trade in. Yet it's still $59 at both places.

I dont know how it works in the US but in the UK new copies are cheaper than used copies most of the time

An oversaturated market will always lead to cheaper prices

 

[Mononoke]

i think you have poor taste honestly

i paid $60 for it myself and would do so again in a heartbeat... some of the most fun ive ever had, and i loved the aesthetics and soundtrack

for a big budget first person game it really felt like nothing else on the market

i can also gaurantee that "Remember Me" is going to do poorly which is too bad as its trying to atleast create a unique setting

Doesn't think game was worth it, must have bad taste.

 

[pvpness]

because someone else will call you out on this...I will do the honors.

ahem..

"Nintendo has top sales?"

Ha.

Nintendo has been around a lot longer than the six months the Wii U has been on the market. They've successfully survived the used market for a very long time.

 

[antitrop]

Doesn't think game was worth it, must have bad taste.

Mirror's Edge tends to bring out the worst in people. I think it's a great game, but I don't understand the fanatic level of appreciation some people have for it.

I played on 360 instead of PC, though, I've heard the PC experience is a pretty substantial upgrade. (Which would be no surprise at all for DICE)

 

[MogCakes]

So he is, in fact, making the argument that video games are a unique special flower that deserves special treatment and that this industry cannot be fairly compared to any other industry.

This right here.

 

[jimi_dini]

Mirror's Edge tends to bring out the worst in people. I think it's a great game, but I don't understand the fanatic level of appreciation some people have for it.

I don't even know what I thought about the game before beating all the speedruns. I definitely know that the speedruns made me realize that first person view in a jump+run game is a bad choice, especially when the speedrun goals are designed in a way that you have to make several perfect (as in jump in the last millisecond) shortcut jumps. Another bad choice is not stopping the speedrun clock, when you force the player to wait in a small room just because you are loading the next part of a level.

 

[KDR_11k]

Nintendo titles do retain their value for very long indeed, I believe GameStop is still including fairly old N titles in promotions like "trade in 2 games to buy 1 new game for 10€" (as the trade-in fodder), guess people are still buying used copies faster than they are sold back.

I personally don't buy used with that measly 5€ discount (anyone claiming that games don't degrade is full of it, even if the disc itself is okay the box tends to show its age), I only go for it when there's either a huge discount (happens about... never) or it's a game that has simply ceased to exist new. E.g. I might need to buy Valkyria Chronicles used because it's not on PSN (dunno about the stock situation at retail though). This forced registration is crap for game preservation in general. Something like Steam is less problematic because it's not the only avenue for getting most games, whether it's Humble Bundles, GOG or even DRM-free Steam games (not all games you get off Steam require the Steam client, you can sometimes just run the .exe directly) there are avenues to keep copies operational.

Just for perspective, Remember Me [..] out next Tuesday.

Yeah and without accidentally tripping over it on Steam I wouldn't have known that. Not much hype there. Considering hype is the #1 ingredient for a successful launch it's pretty much doomed by AAA standards. Could still sell well by AA standards but I bet expectations are higher than that.

Speaking of hype, how much influence does overhyping have on second hand sales? If you dupe customers into buying a game, they hate it and turn around and sell it used are you really in a position to complain about THEIR behavior? At least used sales add a feedback mechanism that allows a game's quality to affect its own sales quickly.

 

[antitrop]

I don't even know what I thought about the game before beating all the speedruns. I definitely know that the speedruns made me realize that first person view in a jump+run game is a bad choice, especially when the speedrun goals are designed in a way that you have to make several perfect (as in jump in the last millisecond) shortcut jumps. Another bad choice is not stopping the speedrun clock, when you force the player to wait in a small room just because you are loading the next part of a level.

I only played through the campaign, loved the soundtrack, gameplay, graphics, and controls, hated the plot and shooting.

That's pretty much what most people think about Mirror's Edge, right?

 

[UrbanRats]

I'm a fan of TB, and i don't mind listening to contrary opinions, always more useful than listening someone preaching to the choir, HOWEVER, i had to shut down the video when he started doing the mock up GameStop/Publisher relationship, it was like a shitty webcomic, where one side is represented as a silly strawman and the other as a mary-sue victim.

Wasn't expecting him to go this low, frankly.

 

[domlolz]

http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=2634792

He has an IQ of 155 guys, listen to him

 

[Mononoke]

Mirror's Edge tends to bring out the worst in people. I think it's a great game, but I don't understand the fanatic level of appreciation some people have for it.

I played on 360 instead of PC, though, I've heard the PC experience is a pretty substantial upgrade. (Which would be no surprise at all for DICE)

Yeah, agreed. I think even if that poster had said he loved it, a games length is a valid reason to think something is not worth $60+

There are plenty of games I loved, but didn't feel the urge to play again. And because of the length I felt it wasn't worth the money I paid. Being able to trade games in gives you that option to not have "those games" that just sit around in your collection.

 

[Jake Tower]

The used market has little/zero impact on the pricing of new games. Quite the opposite, actually. Used games are usually $5 less than new.

The primary reason games drop is unsold inventory. Publishers fund price drops at retailers. If GameStop lowers the price of a game by $10, it's because the publisher gave them $8 or whatever per copy to do so. Then the used game falls to $5 under that new retail price.

Ever wonder why Atlas games never drop in price? Or why the best-selling games drop slowly? Same reason, not a ton of inventory sitting at retail.

That's how it works.

If only you could connect the dots.

 

[RoninChaos]

but the "we lower the price if it doesn't sell" already happens NOW.
why should i give up my right to sell games to have something that already happens?

Exactly. The pricing on games drops a lot these days after the first month. There are few games that stay above the 40 mark unless they're something like skyrim. I got dead space 3 new for 11 bucks with a target deal. It would have been 30 before, which is half off of what the initial starting price was.

A huge part of this problem is devs are budgeting around these games selling at 60 dollars and not 30. I see no poor in giving up certain consumer rights because they can't budget. Essentially these developers are saying they only want capitalism to work in their favor and no one else's.

 

[WrenchNinja]

dear god, what kind of nimrod uses comic sans

 

[antitrop]

http://eatchain.com/garbage/total_biscuits_first_post_on_sa.jpg[IMG]

[url]http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=2634792[url]

He has an IQ of 155 guys, listen to him[/QUOTE]
This makes a pretty good case for anyone who ever hopes to have any kind of following on the internet to never post on internet message boards.

 

[UrbanRats]

http://eatchain.com/garbage/total_biscuits_first_post_on_sa.jpg[IMG]

[url]http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=2634792[/url]

He has an IQ of 155 guys, listen to him[/QUOTE]

Dude, quote that shit.
Also that's not really relevant to the argument at hand.

 

[antitrop]

Yeah, agreed. I think even if that poster had said he loved it, a games length is a valid reason to think something is not worth $60+

There are plenty of games I loved, but didn't feel the urge to play again. And because of the length I felt it wasn't worth the money I paid. Being able to trade games in gives you that option to not have "those games" that just sit around in your collection.

Ya, Spec Ops: The Line was my favorite game of 2012 and I'm still pretty butthurt that I paid $50 for it. It's literally 4 hours long.

 

[Mononoke]

I'm a fan of TB, and i don't mind listening to contrary opinions, always more useful than listening someone preaching to the choir, HOWEVER, i had to shut down the video when he started doing the mock up GameStop/Publisher relationship, it was like a shitty webcomic, where one side is represented as a silly strawman and the other as a mary-sue victim.

Wasn't expecting him to go this low, frankly.

I can't take TB seriously anymore after his tantrum on twitter with regards to the PS4 no DRM campaign.

Him saying that the Gaffer that started it didn't do shit and that journalists had already been covering this in a more appropriate medium was laughable.

Seems to me, being a talking head in this industry has made him have a bloated sense of self importance. The whole "industry" insiders vs. the "whiny entitled gamers" bs.

 

[TangoAlphaLima]

dear god, what kind of nimrod uses comic sans

This guy.

 

[domlolz]

dear god, what kind of nimrod uses comic sans

it's the stylesheet for the section where the bad threads get placed, archived for future generations

comic sans is legit

 

[FStop7]

Dude, quote that shit.
Also that's not really relevant to the argument at hand.

I think it provides some insight into TB's mentality.

 

[Wickerbasket]

I think it provides some insight into TB's mentality.

I actually felt stupider having read his post.

I agree though, that it's probably off topic, even if it does show he's a bit up his own arse.

 

[domlolz]

Dude, quote that shit.
Also that's not really relevant to the argument at hand.

I dunno the thread seems to be about how big an idiot he is and thats what my post is also about!

 

[antitrop]

I think it provides some insight into TB's mentality.

I do think it is actually fairly relevant. Surprisingly so, even.

I also very much enjoyed reading the comments in that thread: "Whoa, 155...too bad the average IQ here is 155.5 ... moron." gave me a nice gut laugh.

 

[RoninChaos]

Limited amount of movies? If I go out to buy a Blu-ray right now I can guarantee you the majority of the movies available for sale are older than 10 years.

I like how you keep switching it up. For the example right here the movie industry has been around for almost a century. Games haven't.

You also brought up dark side of the moon, one of the most successful albums of all time and are asking for a comparison. You're comparing apples to Cadillacs. You claimed someone else was moving the goal posts but you're playing ball in a different stadium.

 

[StopMakingSense]

dear god, what kind of nimrod uses comic sans

That's how the SA gassed thread forum looks.

 

[UrbanRats]

I can't take TB seriously anymore after his tantrum on twitter with regards to the PS4 no DRM campaign.

Him saying that the Gaffer that started it didn't do shit and that journalists had already been covering this in a more appropriate medium was laughable.

Seems to me, being a talking head in this industry has made him have a bloated sense of self importance. The whole "industry" insiders vs. the "whiny entitled gamers" bs.

Haven't seen the Twitter side of it, Link?

Anyway, yeah i found his reasoning on the subject really disappointing.
As i said i don't mind hearing a contrary opinion (and i've heard several of his) but the reasoning has to at least be convincing and fair.

Unfortunately i was only listening to the Content Patch, of his, as of late.. this isn't exactly turning me around.

 

[antitrop]

Seems to me, being a talking head in this industry has made him have a bloated sense of self importance

I think the 2007 SA post of his in this very thread proves it's a long-standing personality disorder and not just a recent occurrence.

I first heard about him when he made his way over to the StarCraft II community and the shit-fits he got into on Reddit's /r/starcraft was insaaaaaaaane. He just dived right into the community and started making all these ridiculous claims like he had been into StarCraft forever, the first few years of his involvement in SC2 was very, very rough for the community. I remember it well. As far as SC2 goes, though, I do love what him and his wife have done recently.

 

[UrbanRats]

I think it provides some insight into TB's mentality.

I dunno the thread seems to be about how big an idiot he is and thats what my post is also about!

That post is from nearly 6 years ago, i think that's a long enough time to mature and change.
Either way, i've heard him being critical on various subjects with good reasoning.

I do, often, find him to be too full of himself, though.

I think the 2007 SA post of his in this very thread proves it's a long-standing personality disorder and not just a recent occurrence.

Yeah but the attitude is not the problem with his USED GAMES video.
It's the reasoning that is flawed AND unfair.

 

[jim2point0]

That SA post is kinda.... irrelevant? I do not want to know the kinds of things I was saying on the internet 6 years ago. I was probably a moron.

 

[antitrop]

That post is from nearly 6 years ago, i think that's a long enough time to mature and change.
Either way, i've heard him being critical on various subjects with good reasoning.

He has gotten less mature as he has grown more popular. He was clearly not ready to handle so much success so quickly. I'm talking mostly anecdotally from being an extremely active member of the /r/starcraft community.

He's too quick to take the trollbait, is his biggest problem as far as maturity goes. He needs to learn to know when to let some people's comments just go, but he LOVES to respond to everything and it usually makes him look worse for it.

 

[Mononoke]

He has gotten less mature as he has grown more popular. He was clearly not ready to handle so much success so quickly.

Hasn't he had several outbursts? I remember vaguely him raging out at the Reddit community once. To be fair, I don't remember what any of it was about.

 

[UrbanRats]

He has gotten less mature as he has grown more popular. He was clearly not ready to handle so much success so quickly.

Probably, but as i said, the attitude and the reasoning presented are two different things.

Frankly, when someone disagrees with you, unless they're VERY humble about it, their attitude will always be grating.

I know because when i listen to the Bombcast sometimes i find myself thinking "Wow, Brad/Jeff/Ryan/Patrick is a giant prick" (Never Vinny) despite usually liking them.

 

[antitrop]

That SA post is kinda.... irrelevant? I do not want to know the kinds of things I was saying on the internet 6 years ago. I was probably a moron.

My entire 30,000 post history on the G4 forums from when I was 18 still exists.

I am literally shaking in my chair at the thought.