nial
Gold Member
Totoki is talking to investors, Phil is talking to his neckbeard fans.
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Totoki (SIE New Chairman Chairman): "Strong titles that achieve growth on PS5, PCs and other platforms will widen our margins"
- Thread starter LakeOf9
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No that had nothing to do with the decline it was because the sales was going down so the return on investment was getting lower but going multiplatform actually fixes that but the only problem is over saturation with no quality control.
ManaByte
Gold Member
Twitter warriors claimed it was fake, but people on Reddit who actually were digging through the files found the PowerPoint it was in.
Interesting, I didn't know that PSVR was not PS but rather part of "other platforms"...
The key point is "Strongs titles".... MLB, Destiny 2 DLC and Marathon are games that will be released on XS.These have that category and it could mean just that and no more.... but it is clear that it is difficult to be categorical in the current state of the industry and more in 5-10 year fron here.
From here, it is striking that it no longer includes PC in that category of "other platforms" but rather in conjunction with PS. Combine this with the statement that they need more revenue to expand their multi-platform initiative and it is easy to conclude that their day one PC releases are going to see a greater cadence.
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thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Gold Member
Also don't you love it how when Microsoft kept yapping about their gaming revenue and profits needing to increase, they turned to mergers & acquisitions and the entire damn industry seemingly supported them on that (and STILL do even with tens of thousands being fired), yet we have Totoki here talking about wanting to do the same for SIE and somehow mergers & acquisitions aren't on the table? At all?
NO ONE in the industry is offering that suggestion? But they loved it when Microsoft did? You can't tell me it's not double standards at this point. I don't even say that because I favor consolidation, it's just funny seeing the hypocrisy in so-called professionals in the media and so-called neutrals.
I honestly don't really care anymore. We know that these companies value their investors and shareholders a ton more than they do the fans and customers of their products, despite the fact they only have their investors and shareholders because of the fans and customers of the products that give the company value in the first place!
So as far as I'm concerned, Totoki's speaking his true intentions here and whatever they package together to address the community will just be gift wrapping, just like the recent Xbox "Business Update". Yes such a "Business Update" they couldn't come right out and mention things directly like actual businessmen and businesswomen.
Like I said, I'm waiting until Sony give some actual, definitive statements on their plans going forward, but quotes like these aren't instilling me with confidence they're going to do what's best for the long-term health of their gaming brand.
It's already been happening to a small extent at least in terms of technical polish and bug-free experiences. HFW for example, launched with a lot more bugs than typical Sony 1P games do, and that's probably in part because some development of the PC port was taking place at some latter end of the game's original development. Though in that game's case, cross-gen support for PS4 might've also been a factor.
And another thing: if Sony do go full-tilt into PC for most or all of their games, it WILL lead to LESS games for PlayStation console owners. How do we know this? Because Wolverine is already slated for a later release than initially anticipated, due to simultaneous PC development. It's almost as if needing to do builds and optimize for more hardware out of the gate shifts away development resources from purely creative aspects of the game, towards QA'ing and optimization for a large array of devices.
Either that or you try maintaining the same creative quality, but the games take longer to release because more platforms have to be OK'd for performance before the game releases. Either way, it's the complete opposite of the promise the PC pitch was originally sold to PlayStation gamers to be.
NO ONE in the industry is offering that suggestion? But they loved it when Microsoft did? You can't tell me it's not double standards at this point. I don't even say that because I favor consolidation, it's just funny seeing the hypocrisy in so-called professionals in the media and so-called neutrals.
I honestly don't really care anymore. We know that these companies value their investors and shareholders a ton more than they do the fans and customers of their products, despite the fact they only have their investors and shareholders because of the fans and customers of the products that give the company value in the first place!
So as far as I'm concerned, Totoki's speaking his true intentions here and whatever they package together to address the community will just be gift wrapping, just like the recent Xbox "Business Update". Yes such a "Business Update" they couldn't come right out and mention things directly like actual businessmen and businesswomen.
Like I said, I'm waiting until Sony give some actual, definitive statements on their plans going forward, but quotes like these aren't instilling me with confidence they're going to do what's best for the long-term health of their gaming brand.
It's already been happening to a small extent at least in terms of technical polish and bug-free experiences. HFW for example, launched with a lot more bugs than typical Sony 1P games do, and that's probably in part because some development of the PC port was taking place at some latter end of the game's original development. Though in that game's case, cross-gen support for PS4 might've also been a factor.
And another thing: if Sony do go full-tilt into PC for most or all of their games, it WILL lead to LESS games for PlayStation console owners. How do we know this? Because Wolverine is already slated for a later release than initially anticipated, due to simultaneous PC development. It's almost as if needing to do builds and optimize for more hardware out of the gate shifts away development resources from purely creative aspects of the game, towards QA'ing and optimization for a large array of devices.
Either that or you try maintaining the same creative quality, but the games take longer to release because more platforms have to be OK'd for performance before the game releases. Either way, it's the complete opposite of the promise the PC pitch was originally sold to PlayStation gamers to be.
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StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
Not everyone wants to game on PC or spend the money on one.
I got a new 4070 laptop last summer and I still prefer playing on Xbox. I bought it since my old laptop was fucking up. I use my PC for unique cheap games not on console but for the big titles I just play on Xbox even though the 4070 should run laps around it. I also don’t game as much as used to so I don’t really care about playing any great settings on PC either.
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
People who supported Ms/Activision (like me) cared more for either stocks (I made money on it and spend some of it buying a new laptop) and MS has a track record of Gamepass. So Xbox gamers are amped up on acquisitions since hopefully it means lots of games uploaded to play. When they bought Bethesda and the deal cleared suddenly like 20 games showed up. Not sure what the Hangup is on activision but finally Diablo is coming to GP. MS also fully supports PC gaming so Xbox and PC gamers know if MS buys them they won’t do any fuckery. If Sony buys a company who knows what they’ll do. They might PS ecosystem it with maybe a PC port 3 years later
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SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
This mother fucker is going to kill Playstation with his retarded decisions. Hope him and his CEO just leave Playstation the fuck alone.
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StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
Totoki has a finance background, including CFO.
Finance people will always have a skew to dollars and sense because that’s their career and expertise. Every finance exec I’ve spoken to or been in the same meeting can talk great about dollars and ratios, but often doesn’t even know the products he’s talking about. In fact most of the time they talk high level as they barely even know the products.
For pure product fun and extravagant shit, customers want their CEO to have a sales and marketing background whose loosely goosey with numbers and often charismatic. These kind of guys are the more fun visionary kinds of leaders. These types of people are close to the product and customers who buy them.
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Bernoulli
M2 slut
denuvo is expensive if you don't expect to sell alot
thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Gold Member
I'm not talking about everyone, I'm talking about myself. And I also know that you don't need to spend that much more on a PC equivalent to a console when it comes to performance. Sure, maybe $200 - $300 more, but considering you don't need to pay for online play, you actually already save more on building a PC equivalent vs. getting the console and paying for just the cheapest sub tier the entire commercial life of the console.
You may personally feel to prefer gaming on an Xbox even with that new 4070 laptop but the truth is very few people would prefer to use an Xbox in that scenario. And same would happen if Sony were to follow Microsoft's footsteps with the PC strategy. The only thing that would make the console install base decline slightly better for PlayStation, is that they simply are a bigger brand. That's it. So if we're seeing Xbox Series at best track between OG Xbox and XBO numbers (bit higher than former, lower than latter) despite supposedly being such a better offering than the XBO, I can easily see a PS6 tracking at best between PS3 and PS1, but probably closer to PS3.
There's even a chance it would track below a PS3 for lifetime sales, all things considered, such as possibly between 70 - 80 million. Those are numbers a brand like Xbox would love to have, but are numbers that at one point threatened to have the PlayStation gaming business shut down. So just put that into perspective.
Right, so personal and selfish reasons. Got it. At least you're honest about it. I'm sure people like Hoeg's Law,
If Sony were to buy a 3P publisher, and considering the role the console plays in their gaming ecosystem (or used to play; who knows what's going to happen anymore), why does it matter if they made a PC port at all? PC isn't entitled to a game just because it's a platform that exists. You're showing the same thinking Phil Spencer has, and I think that's silly. If PC got the game, cool. If it didn't, and the game seems really cool...welp one more reason to get a PlayStation I guess.
For some reason it's bad for Sony to add value to their console ecosystem with exclusives but everyone else can, even when they buy publishers? Because we know that's what MS wanted to do with ABK just like how they talked about with Zenimax in the internal memos & emails. Things they've since had to renege on due to regulatory pressure for concessions. But apparently since they had to give up that idea, their competitors need to as well? That's pure ego talking, nothing else.
Although I suspect at some point they're going to try pressuring/influencing Nintendo to join in on that ridiculous circus of an idea that incidentally just consolidates more power and control of dynamics in the industry to Microsoft anyhow. Who really benefits the most from a non-exclusivity push from the platform holders? Who really benefits from everyone pushing Day 1 on PC? Microsoft. They couldn't beat Sony and Nintendo in the living room or in the traditional console space, so they're going to try doing so through deceptive business concepts and use gullible gamers & compromised media/influencers/shills to "pressure" the other platform holders to play along.
Nothing about this is acceptable at a personal level, or appealing. It just makes me want them to at least sell Xbox off to another company and then step away from gaming, at least within the console side of the market.
Punished Miku
Gold Member
The issue is not Xbox saved. The issue is that if console declines continue or stay stagnant while costs rise, Sony is the most dependent on their walled garden for survival. Even if Xbox vanishes, MS is well positioned to be a hugely successful 3rd party publisher. Nintendo as well. PS needs things to stay like they are now or they will be massively out of position as a 3rd party if consoles are de-emphasized.
Horseganador
Member
It's funny how they try to put Playstation in the same bag as Xbox as damage control.
Papa_Wisdom
Member
Game gear port on TLOU incoming
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
I think we want people who are passionate about products, not numbers. Steve Jobs wanted to create products, Apple becoming the most successful company in the world was not the main goal. The goal was always to create something truly unique and innovative.
The problem with having this finance CEOs run companies that create art and actual products is that they dont have that vision, that drive guys like Steve Jobs, Elon Musk, and those early Google heads. Hell, id rather have Mark Zuckerberg run playstation than someone like Jaime Dimon or Peter Thiel. At least hes into pushing VR tech and cares about something other than sheer profits.
James Sawyer Ford
Member
Sony could go full multiplat tomorrow and be just fine even though it’s not best for their bottom line
They create some of the best games in the business. Microsoft just acquired companies that look to be on shaky ground. Bethesda in particular, the quality isn’t there. Activision with CoD is seeing declining interest as well, how long until that is the next halo?
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StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
Maybe it’ll be successful one day or maybe it’ll just bomb. But love or hate Zuckerberg….. that VR Metaverse division loses $10 billion per year. For many years in a row. And he keeps trying. Granted FB makes shot loads of money $30 billion profit before the $10 billion loss on metaverse stuff so FB can afford it. But still he is willing to take chances then just gut it and bank an extra $10 bill.
Lupin25
Member
Putting anything on Xbox is not “improving” anything though. I don’t know why this narrative exists.
Have you seen the sales on it lately?
Physiognomonics
Member
They won't make billions on PC. They make billions on keeping their customers on their own store, they way Nintendo do it, the way Steam do it. Customers they'll lose forever once they play their games on PC. They are in a total delusion about PC.
Senua
Member
No. They will lose so many sales that way, and fuck more storefronts.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
I think people realize that its an investment for the future. Much in the same way Amazon and netflix were investing billions and losing money every year for almost 2 decades before the finally started posting profits.
The Sony CEO shouldve simply said that the reason why our profits dipped this year is due to the investments we made in Bungie and our first party studios who are set to deliver an amazing next 4 years with AAA exclusive after exclusive. No idea why these CEO and Chairman dude are throwing the PS business under the bus.
analog_future
Resident Crybaby
I'm kind of sick of them vaguely talking about how they need to bring more shit to PC without, you know, actually announcing much coming to PC.
Where's
etc.. etc..
If they want to diversify, first they need to put their money where their mouth is, and second they need to stop releasing titles YEARS after their PS releases for full MSRP. Either do day-and-date (or close to it) or at significantly reduced prices.
Where's
- Ghost of Tsushima
- The Last of Us Part II
- God of War Ragnarok
- MLB The Show games
- Shadow of the Colossus
- Demon's Souls
- Uncharted: The Nathan Drake Collection
- The Last Guardian
- Gravity Rush
- Spider-Man 2
etc.. etc..
If they want to diversify, first they need to put their money where their mouth is, and second they need to stop releasing titles YEARS after their PS releases for full MSRP. Either do day-and-date (or close to it) or at significantly reduced prices.
ByWatterson
Member
I mean they've already said Bungie games, as an example, will be on everything.
I expect most if their service game tries to eventually be everywhere, Helldivers included.
I expect most if their service game tries to eventually be everywhere, Helldivers included.
Mister Wolf
Member
Put GOW Ragnarok and Spiderman 2 on a new Sony PC marketplace only and let's see if they bomb on PC.
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Nickolaidas
Member
EXACTLY.
At the end of the day:
Pay 400 bucks and play Sony/MS games relatively cheap at low performance
or
pay 2,000-4,000 bucks and play both Sony/MS games at better performance.
Everyone wins.
poodaddy
Member
Agree with everything you said except this.
Fuck that. Too many goddamn platforms on PC already. They're making great sales on Steam, why mess with a good thing? Didn't exactly work out when EA, Activision, and Ubisoft did it, and no one buys games on the Epic store, it's a Fortnight platform.
Senua
Member
They'll sell a lot less than if they were on Steam.
Punished Miku
Gold Member
I may not personally like Sony games lately, but I think they make high quality games. That's not the issue. The issue is looking at their current profit margins, and the cost of their products, and how they are currently positioned. Of all the 1st party devs, Sony is the one that is most reliant on all the passive income from 3rd party sales.
Nintendo has never relied on that, and most of their games made with sensible budgets with an audience that supports a wide range of types of titles, small, medium and large from multiple age ranges.
The bulk of MS is made up of successful 3rd party publishers that have already been operating without getting passive income, like Bethesda and Activision. The other stuff they have picked up hasn't been insanely expensive, like Ninja Theory, Obsidian, or Double Fine. Obsidian makes extremely low budget games most of the time. Ninja Theory was already trying to make AAA games on a AA budget. 343 is probably their biggest money sink of anything. Even Perfect Dark is mostly contractors. And they are spread across more diverse genres, and budget types.
Sony has low margins despite having the absolute majority of 3rd party sales, which is crazy. Their game budgets are exploding. And they're mostly concentrated on a limited number of genres. The purpose of a Sony title is to draw people in to the ecosystem to purchase 3rd party games. They will be huge sellers I'm sure, but the risk is just so much higher when you don't have the security blanket of passive income and you're concentrated in such a limited type of game genre for almost everything. And the parent company is losing ground on most other areas of business as well, so they have less room for failure in general. It's not about saying Sony can't do it, it's about saying that getting to that place would be a huge change for them with potential risk compared to the other 2, which could pull it off relatively safely as they exist now.
Mister Wolf
Member
And that's fine as the main place they want you to play the game is the console in the first place. Many will be stubborn or talk shit online like they have an unbreakable will, but they'll eventually fold once it's a game they really want to play.
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BennyBlanco
aka IMurRIVAL69
EGS has been giving away (very good) free games for years and still nobody buys anything there. They also have Fortnite and Rocket League which forces millions of people to open their launcher, and they still can’t get any real traction.
I think Sony should do what Rockstar does on PC. Have your own barebones launcher for your games, make them exclusive there for like 6 months and collect 100% of FOMOtards money, then put them on Steam.
Horseganador
Member
The new Q&A stuff corrected that Sony was referring to Bungie as the studio that needs to do better ~business, not the overall SIE studios.
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Mister Wolf
Member
Name one game that was exclusive to Epic that matches or even comes close to the Spiderman and GOW Franchises in sales and IP fanbase.
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BennyBlanco
aka IMurRIVAL69
Fortnite
James Sawyer Ford
Member
We don’t have a true accounting for why profit margins last quarter were significantly lower.
It could be due to Bungie acquisition costs, higher than anticipated console hardware costs, etc. Both of these could meaningfully improve margins over time without changing anything in terms of their software.
You are greatly overstating the sustainability of Microsoft’s third party plans. CoD and King are the cash cows (for now), but everyone else is certainly NOT cheap to operate and their games do not sell much at all. There’s a reason why MS made significant layoffs and is now pretty much going full third party. They are doing this out of necessity, not strength.
Starfield clearly didn’t meet anywhere near their lofty goals and that is the most successful property of the bunch.
The rest of Bethesda has had very poor results, which is why Hi Fi Rush needs to go third party to make that studio sustainable, and I hope it works out.
Sony does rely on their closed garden, because they are in the position to leverage that to their advantage. Microsoft already lost that battle so they are going through a major transition which is basically because they have to at this point.
Mister Wolf
Member
That doesn't refute the point, it proves the point that all of the "its not on my favorite client" talk goes out the window when it's a game people really want to play. Which would apply just as well to GOW Ragnarok, Spiderman 2, The Last Of Us 2, and plenty of other future Sony exclusives if released day one on PC exclusively on a Sony client.
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Punished Miku
Gold Member
Starfield and all Bethesda games would meet expectations if multiplat. I'm pretty confident in that, and Bethesda has been doing that for decades. Now they don't even need their own HR, publishing or marketing departments and have less cost on that front. They're already established on PC as well.
No one is really making games like Sony if you're a 3rd party. That tells me how sensible it is for an independent publisher to put out single player $250 million + games with no multiplayer or ongoing element that clock in at 20-40 hours. No one thinks that's a smart plan.
thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Gold Member
What an off-base comment. Nintendo, the company who has zero ports of their games on PC, and zero versions of their games on other consoles, is somehow less dependent on a "walled garden" than Sony? Also the only one of the Big 3 who is suffering unusually severe declines in hardware sales, is Microsoft. Switch's decline is normal since it is in the twilight years. PS5 falling a bit short of set targets might be a tad questionable but their targets were unusually high in the first place, and PS consoles tend to peak in their 3rd and 4th years on the market. At worst, PS5 will do PS2 numbers for this FY, which would suggest it's tracking to do at least as well as PS1, PS2, and PS4 for lifetime.
If it falls short of those, well, we can actually probably point to things like the PC strategy as a reason why that ends up being the case, be we aren't there yet. No, the only platform holder who's absolutely not pulling their own weight in the console space, is Microsoft. Yet somehow their blundering failure is that of the entire industry's? It's a narrative, nothing more, to shift blame from themselves and towards external factors that don't seem to be impacting competitors nearly as much as it is them.
Also if Microsoft were so well-positioned as a "hugely successful" 3P publisher, why is Phil Spencer crying about a "little" game like Helldivers 2 not being on his console? Didn't they just buy COD and other IP for $75 billion? Or are they realizing spending billions for IP means nothing if you don't have the leadership, or the talent, to maintain those IP and make them better over time? That type of stuff, you can't buy, and it probably dawned on him when he saw Helldivers 2 gaining so much steam through WOM, hence his jaded comment.
Although at this point, it could just be a psyop with MS and Sony colluding behind the scenes, who knows anymore. MS being the "bad cop", Sony being the "good" cop, but only "good" because they aren't saying the blatantly stupid stuff MS are. They might be wanting to tread that same strategy but want MS to take the heat since they already have a reputation for consistently making bad decisions with their console.
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