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Toy Story in real time?? WHEN?!

Evlar said:
I finished Uncharted 2 two days ago, I watched Toy Story 3D in the theater three weeks ago, and I think you're wrong. Toy Story looks like a film, it IS a film, and it's presented at insanely high resolution with vast anti-aliasing and a lighting engine that's still beyond the real-time capability current GPUs. Uncharted 2 is the best looking game I've ever played on many metrics but it does not touch Toy Story in any technical category except perhaps the use of water, which is almost non-existent in Toy Story.
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Draw distance :)
 
We will never have a videogame that will look as clean as a CG movie, for obvious reaons. At least until 4k resolution replaces 1080p as the norm. :P

However, I've played many games that are certainly more visually stimulating than the original Toy Story, which in my opinion looks kinda dated these days. Even back when it came out I thought the humans looked fucking weird.
 
jett said:
I've played many games that are certainly more visually stimulating than the original Toy Story, which in my opinion looks kinda dated these days. Even back when it came out I thought the humans looked fucking weird.
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That may be true but it still doesn't change the fact that Toy Story's raytracing (realistic lighting) and anti-aliasing (smoothing out of jagged edges) are still impossible to pull off in real time on current systems as they're insanely processor-intensive processes. I know this is mainly an image quality thing and has nothing to do with the quality of the modeling itself but it's still one of the main advantages of raytraced graphics that took a cluster of high-end computers weeks to render over real-time graphics in video games.
 
I don't see how you could compare a game like Uncharted 2 to something like Toy Story. The art styles are so different.

But from a pure technical stand point, yeah, I think games have already surpassed "Toy Story graphics."

edit: Though I guess you could argue that games still aren't as clean as a cg film. Jagged edges do still exist.
 
deepbrown said:
Draw distance :)
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That's a fair point, heh. Pixar wants to keep the spaces small or lit carefully to obscure distance. In the one case they are forced to show a lot of space (at the moving van chase near the end of the film) you can see some low-detail houses in the distance, and even a hint of N64-style white fog.
 
As far as i'm aware there's no game out there pushing anywhere near the amount of polys that made up the models of toystory, devs have to downgrade that shit down into a normal map. No ray tracing...looking at those shadows as well, very high quality. Technically we're not even close.
 
"...the first game to truly deliver the long-sought 'You are playing a Pixar movie' experience" regarding Ratchet and Clank Future: Tools of Destruction.


At least that's what The New York Times thinks :D
 
The first time I booted up Ratchet and Clank: FTOD the first thought I had was WOW this looks like a pixar movie.

I think we are already there. And the comparison shots of Crack in Time and Toy Story pretty much seal the deal.
 
I'd say that the only thing holding games back from looking like Toy Story quality is aliasing and framerate. Back when Final Fantasy: Spirits Within came out I predicted that the third Playstation would be able to do that levels of graphics. I'm going to have to see the movie again but when I popped Uncharted 2 in the PS3...if we aren't there yet, we are damn close.
 
Some of you guys need to get your eyes checked. There is no game that has matched the visual fidelity of Toy Story 1 yet.
 
Dark Octave said:
I'd say that the only thing holding games back from looking like Toy Story quality is aliasing and framerate. Back when Final Fantasy: Spirits Within came out I predicted that the third Playstation would be able to do that levels of graphics. I'm going to have to see the movie again but when I popped Uncharted 2 in the PS3...if we aren't there yet, we are damn close.
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No way, especially with the hair in that movie, nothing this gen is going to match that.
 
to the ppl saying Uncharted 2, Crysis, and/or R&C, go see an eye doctor and/or the toy story 1/2 3D double feature immediately
 
Guled said:
to the ppl saying Uncharted 2, Crysis, and/or R&C, go see an eye doctor and/or the toy story 1/2 3D double feature immediately
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When Toy Story released we all watched it on video. There's no point comparing it to its touched up 2009 3D experience. We're talking about when it first came out :)
 
magicalsoundshower said:
That may be true but it still doesn't change the fact that Toy Story's raytracing (realistic lighting) and anti-aliasing (smoothing out of jagged edges) are still impossible to pull off in real time on current systems as they're insanely processor-intensive processes. I know this is mainly an image quality thing and has nothing to do with the quality of the modeling itself but it's still one of the main advantages of raytraced graphics that took a cluster of high-end computers weeks to render over real-time graphics in video games.
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Yeah, games are still lacking in the lighting and IQ department. We may have more complex geometry and much better shader these days. But as long as we won't have ray tracing and 300x AA in real time...

Also Pixar aren't only technical wizard, they also have awesome art direction that perfectly match their tech. Whoever had the idea to use plastic toys for Toy Story is a genius :lol Way to take advantage of the flaw of the tech and turn them into quality.
 
Toy Story only looks good because it looks so smooth. No jaggies!

Otherwise, the models don't even look particularly 'high poly' and the textures look.. empty. :P
 
We have the feeling of playing through a pixar film NOW. No arguments. Might not be technically the same - but we've got it.
 
RockmanWhore said:
Yeah, games are still lacking in the lighting and IQ department. We may have more complex geometry and much better shader these days. But as long as we won't have ray tracing and 300x AA in real time...

Also Pixar aren't only technical wizard, they also have awesome art direction that perfectly match their tech. Whoever had the idea to use plastic toys for Toy Story is a genius :lol Way to take advantage of the flaw of the tech and turn them into quality.
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Yeah they were pretty smart about that, they slowly made up their way to a movie primarily about humans. toys > bugs > monsters > fish > humans
 
Both Viva Piñata and Little Big Planet at times look prerendered. I'm sure next gen will be able to achieve Toy Story like graphics.
 
PS2 already did it

"TOKYO (Nikkei)--Sony Computer Entertainment Inc. plans to release the follow-up to its popular PlayStation video game system by March 2000. The successor to the world's biggest-selling 32-bit game console is to feature a microprocessor co-developed with Toshiba Corp. (6502) that provides motion picture-quality images, The Nihon Keizai Shimbun learned Sunday.

"The Sony unit seeks more than dominant market share in the video game console market with the chip, company officials said.

"The new microprocessor will allow users to handle nearly 50 times more 3-D image data compared with Sega Enterprises Ltd.'s (7964) Dreamcast game console. It will also let users produce game characters comparable in image quality to Walt Disney's Toy Story."




http://terror.snm-hgkz.ch/mirrors/www.thegia.com/mirror/news/n990228b.html
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Stalfos said:
No way, especially with the hair in that movie, nothing this gen is going to match that.
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That's true, shadows as well. From what I remember, it's close though, especially the faces. That's a great achievement. The PS4 will get it right I'm sure.
 
Never. Toy Story is a movie - every second of what you screen is overseen by multiple highly talented human beings - a game will never 'look' as good, even when the technology has surpassed that of Toy Story. You might as well ask when real-life will 'look' as good as Goodfellas.

As for when game technology will be sufficient to render Toy Story quality graphics - the original rendering farm for Toy story could perform 16 billion instructions per second and took 2-15 hours per frame. A top of the line quad core runs at ~100 billion instructions per second (wiki) and a graphics card can max out at maybe ~900 billion instructions (depending on type). So you are looking at maybe 2-15 minutes minutes per frame, or 0.008 FPS, so we need an increase of about a factor of ~4000 to get to 30FPS. It took from 1987 to modern day (22 years) to see that type of increase in processor speed for everyday use. So within 10 years or so the technology should be in everyday peoples hands to render something similar to Toy Story.
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0EIN/is_1995_Dec_4/ai_17812444/
 
RiZ III said:
Both Viva Piñata and Little Big Planet at times look prerendered. I'm sure next gen will be able to achieve Toy Story like graphics.
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The key phrase here is "at times". 1024x1024 textures might be the standard texture resolution, but I would not be surprised if textures in something like Toy Story are ten times that resolution. Not to mention there's all kinds of things like physics detail, lighting, etc. that won't be possible in real-time for at least two generations - and that's assuming the next generation sees a boost in hardware processing speeds the same as it was between PS2 -> PS3 (and given the success of the Wii and how much companies like Sony have lost on their hardware, it would not surprise me to see hardware manufacturers ease up a bit on the race for the next generation).

Nevermind the fact that somebody a few posts ago mentioned The Spirits Within. We'll probably never get "The Spirits Within in Real Time" in direct terms, because Spirits Within's primary shortcoming was one of animation, not lackluster rendering technology. At this point, game animation has already surpassed Spirits Within (see: Resident Evil 5) but I doubt we'll see that level of texture/physics/lighting detail in a game.

Namely because it's simply not required. Look at PhysX cards - those more or less bombed because there was no real reason to own one. They were superfluous. Yeah, they got folded in to nVidia, but you still don't really hear anybody singing the praises of that stuff like it's a revolution in gaming just because you can kick scraps of paper around in Arkham Asylum.

My point in all this (somewhere) is that faking this stuff is good enough but the real, true, honest "Toy Story in Real Time" is still not possible, but really, who cares if it isn't? Today's games look great.
 
Although both use 3D technologies, video games and 3D rendered movies are not comparable. Will a videogame animate like Toy Story or any Pixar movies anytime soon? Doubtful.
 
poppabk said:
Never. Toy Story is a movie - every second of what you screen is overseen by multiple highly talented human beings - a game will never 'look' as good, even when the technology has surpassed that of Toy Story. You might as well ask when real-life will 'look' as good as Goodfellas.

As for when game technology will be sufficient to render Toy Story quality graphics - the original rendering farm for Toy story could perform 16 billion instructions per second and took 2-15 hours per frame. A top of the line quad core runs at ~100 billion instructions per second (wiki) and a graphics card can max out at maybe ~900 billion instructions (depending on type). So you are looking at maybe 2-15 minutes minutes per frame, or 0.008 FPS, so we need an increase of about a factor of ~4000 to get to 30FPS. It took from 1987 to modern day (22 years) to see that type of increase in processor speed for everyday use. So within 10 years or so the technology should be in everyday peoples hands to render something similar to Toy Story.
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0EIN/is_1995_Dec_4/ai_17812444/
Click to expand...

So... in 10 years not never. Okay!

As for Uncharted 2 or Crysis, both games use tricks to get to that level of fidelity at a stable FPS, but even they don't come close to toy story, they don't even use ray-tracing, but rasterisation, as such the lighting suffers terribly compared to Toy Story.
 
Dark FaZe said:
the gen after next
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This, I reckon. We're almost there. It's really a technical question since it's all lighting and reflections and AA now.

Ratchet and Clank looks pretty damn close though. Certainly rivals a Pixar movie stylistically.
 
We can't even get any polygonal circles to look like circles. They're all still filled of angles, they look like 50-agons or something. Fucking game developers.
 
chase said:
We can't even get any polygonal circles to look like circles. They're all still filled of angles, they look like 50-agons or something. Fucking game developers.
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I always appreciated the Mario 64 3d circle trick

mario64_3.jpg
 
Evlar said:
I finished Uncharted 2 two days ago, I watched Toy Story 3D in the theater three weeks ago, and I think you're wrong. Toy Story looks like a film, it IS a film, and it's presented at insanely high resolution with vast anti-aliasing and a lighting engine that's still beyond the real-time capability current GPUs. Uncharted 2 is the best looking game I've ever played on many metrics but it does not touch Toy Story in any technical category except perhaps the use of water, which is almost non-existent in Toy Story.
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so you want Uncharted at 24fps? :D
 
Evlar said:
I finished Uncharted 2 two days ago, I watched Toy Story 3D in the theater three weeks ago, and I think you're wrong. Toy Story looks like a film, it IS a film, and it's presented at insanely high resolution with vast anti-aliasing and a lighting engine that's still beyond the real-time capability current GPUs. Uncharted 2 is the best looking game I've ever played on many metrics but it does not touch Toy Story in any technical category except perhaps the use of water, which is almost non-existent in Toy Story.
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I'm pretty sure the Toy Story got re-rendered for this release and the original didn't look as good. I remember seeing it on DVD like a year ago and it looked kinda crappy to be honest. The lighting techniques used in UC2 are actually way beyond that, especially since it also uses many precomputed lightmaps using offline rendering techniques that could be only dreamed about back then when TS was first made. It even has stuff like global illumination and subsurface scatter trickery, which even though technically simplified and faked are still there giving that look in realtime, where TS had none at all. Of course, resolution and aliasing won't be nearly as good, but the overall image look is way beyond what was there back then.

Also as someone mentioned, human characters in TS look pretty atrocious which is one of UC2's strongest points. It's much easier to animate caricatures convincingly.
 
I think it's funny some people are serious when they say Uncharted 2 or R+C look better. It's still got a ways to go. Those games do look incredible, but they're not nearly as smooth or clean as they movies themselves. Next gen still isn't quite the pixar gen, but it'll be very close, I think one gen after that and it'll be right there with it.
 
Xavien said:
So... in 10 years not never. Okay!

As for Uncharted 2 or Crysis, both games use tricks to get to that level of fidelity at a stable FPS, but even they don't come close to toy story, they don't even use ray-tracing, but rasterisation, as such the lighting suffers terribly compared to Toy Story.
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You will never get anything that 'looks' as good, because each individual frame in a pixar movie is looked at by a skilled human being, lighting is chosen from frame to frame within a scene and even things such as ambient occlusion and the types of shadow are chosen on a frame by frame basis. So in 10 years, an in engine cutscene with a fixed camera might be able to look close to Toy Story, but the game while being played won't.
 
poppabk said:
You will never get anything that 'looks' as good, because each individual frame in a pixar movie is looked at by a skilled human being, lighting is chosen from frame to frame within a scene and even things such as ambient occlusion and the types of shadow are chosen on a frame by frame basis. So in 10 years, an in engine cutscene with a fixed camera might be able to look close to Toy Story, but the game while being played won't.
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I absolutely disagree with this. Yeah maybe it won't be quite as scripted, but the technology will be there to make sure the game can have the clean look the movies have.
 
poppabk said:
You will never get anything that 'looks' as good, because each individual frame in a pixar movie is looked at by a skilled human being, lighting is chosen from frame to frame within a scene and even things such as ambient occlusion and the types of shadow are chosen on a frame by frame basis. So in 10 years, an in engine cutscene with a fixed camera might be able to look close to Toy Story, but the game while being played won't.
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In 10 years games will DESTROY Toy Story. Imho, of course.
 
I don't find toy story visually impressive at all these days...personally, I think crysis, uncharted 2, GoW3 crush it visually...I'm talking from a purely aesthetic perspective, I don't care about technical shenanigans in this instance because they are not comparable...considering the style of toy story, the modelling are meant to look very basic, so they are hardly a good example to show off cg in this day and age...there is obviously alot of cg out there which absolutely destorys it in terms of detail etc
 
FirewalkR said:
In 10 years games will DESTROY Toy Story. Imho, of course.
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We know the speed of the render farm used for Toy Story, the time it took to render a frame, and the speed of modern day computers. For 30 FPS we aren't even close at the moment. IQ costs a lot of power.
 
VegaShinra said:
The same day Madden looks like this:

[IG]http://www.winsupersite.com/images/showcase/xbox3601_madden06_12.jpg[/IMG]
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Really? That doesn't look that good at all. The way I try to look at things is 10 years ago what was the best looking game out? How about 10 years before that? Try and imagine 20 years down the road how much of a leap games should be able to make.
 
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