Damerman
Member
it has everything to do with it. It proves that there are people willing to talk about this issue that are on the other side of the fence, it promotes dialogue and a back and forth.
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Tropes vs Women author Sarkeesian vacates home following online threats
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it has everything to do with it. It proves that there are people willing to talk about this issue that are on the other side of the fence, it promotes dialogue and a back and forth.
pants
Member
So far from what I've seen the backlash has come almost entirely from the gaming community.
Steve Youngblood
Member
OK, for the record, people have been banned for being disrespectful to you. Having said that, this is going to be your one and only warning to stop playing the fucking victim.
Liquid Helium
Member
So with two women (Anita and Zoe) are in hiding today, can we admit the gaming community/culture has a problem with women yet?
Anton Sugar
Member
When did she imply that? Can you give video timestamps for these claims? I didn't see any of that.
I liken this post to a moon landing denier trying to rationalize his previous position after walking on the moon.
DrROBschiz
Member
Shitty opinions dont warrant the response of criminal behavior
Hence the topic at hand
"Don't lump us in with abusers!" will always be the reply. Society at large has a problem with women, it seems self-evident that a subset of that society dominated by young men would have an even larger problem with them.
Neuromancer
Member
Not yet
Omegasquash
Member
The fuck. I'm out of it for two days and this is what I come back to.
Shitty trolling needs to stop...no one and I mean NO ONE should ever feel threatened for speaking out on what they believe. God dammit.
Shitty trolling needs to stop...no one and I mean NO ONE should ever feel threatened for speaking out on what they believe. God dammit.
No, because this is more than just these two isolated events. Tumbler, youtube, twitter, male, female, anyone out to get anyone will do this type of shit as long as there are people out there making private information available online. That is just how some people are.
But I guess it's easier to just blame it on the "Patriarchy" rofl.
Aaaaaand point proven.
KoopaTheCasual
Junior Member
No, shut up! There's zero problems with my hobby more than other media! *sticks fingers in ears*
Yea, it's got some serious problems
^speak of the devil.
AdmiralMikey
Member
I agree with what you're saying, that distancing yourself from Anita's videos also distances you from the issue of her abuse. What people should be concerned with is that she is a person who is taking an inordinate amount of abuse for the works she creates. It doesn't really matter what you think about those works.
Well, I'm proud to say that I very much enjoy her videos, and appreciate the new light they shine on these commonly accepted parts of gaming that don't really need to exist. It doesn't mean I can't enjoy some of the games she mentions, but now I have a more critical eye towards lazy design that relies on unnecessary tropes to tell stories and build atmosphere. Honestly, if you approach her videos with an open mind, you'll see that some of these tropes are very real, and are disgusting.
The abuse she gets for these videos is insane, and it's really an embarrassment to all of us who choose video games as our primary entertainment. Someone earlier in this thread asked "What can we do? How can we hope to make change?" Well, acting on it is the first step towards change. If you like her videos, let people know. Don't be afraid to admit you enjoy them because they seem to be unpopular with most online gaming crowds, including here at GAF. Don't be afraid to stand up and rebuke abuse of women and other minority crowds in gaming. Stand up for yourself, stand up for the real gamers. These abusers aren't like you, they don't love video games, they are cowards who love their selfish perception of video games and are very vocal about it. Once they find themselves on the losing side, they'll disappear.
Honestly, if we were all like Anita Sarkeesian and weren't afraid to stand up and fight against those for being wrong, idiotic, dismissive or abusive, then this big, amorphous thing we refer to as "The Internet" in this thread would be a much friendlier place.
And some of you are right, it's not just "Gamers", it's all kinds of people. That's no excuse for not trying to change your own community for the better.
I think you can boil it down to "having a problem" in general and women being a prime example.
ReturnOfTheRAT
Member
This happens online. It's a shame and a disappointing misuse of the power the Internet yields. For us as gamer's, we don't need this unnecessary crap in this industry. You want respect, respect others ability to speak freely.
abaldwin360
Neo Member
This kind of shit is how folks try and "keep women in line".
Woman speaks out, idiots on the internet get their boxers in a twist, proceed to harass and threaten woman.
This results in a chilling effect where women are afraid to speak out, fearing it will happen to them.
It doesn't help that when this bullshit happens you have legions of assholes who try and pull this, "She's doing it for attention" crap or basically write it off as something people should just accept.
Woman speaks out, idiots on the internet get their boxers in a twist, proceed to harass and threaten woman.
This results in a chilling effect where women are afraid to speak out, fearing it will happen to them.
It doesn't help that when this bullshit happens you have legions of assholes who try and pull this, "She's doing it for attention" crap or basically write it off as something people should just accept.
DrROBschiz
Member
Yes the debate is very active and very real
The problem comes from disruptive extremists and psychos on boths sides that seek only to push chaos and muck up any legitimate discussion
Then you have the criminally insane that just paints an even bleaker picture.
Ragingnight
Member
I honestly don't think its just men exactly. I think its just more the immature people that like to ddos, dox, and swat others.
Its just more blatant nowadays due to the rise of the internet and anonymity.
Its just more blatant nowadays due to the rise of the internet and anonymity.
I remember reading a thread somewhere (here, reddit, somewhere on the internet) about a woman who discovered her husband would go online and troll. Not innocent, innocuous trolling, but finding videos of young girls on youtube and calling them names, being directly verbally abusive, etc.
His wife thought this was insane and completely out of character for him, she couldn't believe it until she read what he was writing and verified that it was him. She confronted him and learned that it was his self-professed outlet for stress. She asked him to stop, and it wouldn't, and it led to their divorce. All because this guy was determined on being a total fucking cunt on the internet to other people.
I don't really know why people do things like this, or how (if) we can prevent it, or what actions we can take to mitigate it. It's a problem, though. People need to treat eachother with respect and empathy, even if we disagree. I believe Anita's actions are a net positive force on humanity, especially in our little microcosm of society. I hope that she will continue bringing her discussion to the table and that others will follow in her footsteps, despite these scumbags who exploit their anonymity to create fear and breed hatred and misogyny.
edit: Here's the post about the wife and husband
His wife thought this was insane and completely out of character for him, she couldn't believe it until she read what he was writing and verified that it was him. She confronted him and learned that it was his self-professed outlet for stress. She asked him to stop, and it wouldn't, and it led to their divorce. All because this guy was determined on being a total fucking cunt on the internet to other people.
I don't really know why people do things like this, or how (if) we can prevent it, or what actions we can take to mitigate it. It's a problem, though. People need to treat eachother with respect and empathy, even if we disagree. I believe Anita's actions are a net positive force on humanity, especially in our little microcosm of society. I hope that she will continue bringing her discussion to the table and that others will follow in her footsteps, despite these scumbags who exploit their anonymity to create fear and breed hatred and misogyny.
edit: Here's the post about the wife and husband
You can't seriously dismiss this with saying "it happens to men too."
KoopaTheCasual
Junior Member
I think this is actually a good point, that's worth discussing on its own time.
Anton Sugar
Member
You aren't actually trying to say that this isn't an issue primarily driven by men, are you?
He posted her address and then said in detail how he was going to kill and rape her.
I caught that one as well...
Insane.
That movie "The Experiment" has a nice quote on it: If you remove the possibility of getting punched in the face, people turn into giant assholes.
This is not a "both sides" issue.
Her family's address, too.
Anton Sugar
Member
What do you mean by substantiated?
Bobby Roberts
Banned
You got any examples of prominent women, or a group of women, at the forefront of this harrassment campaign?
You don't. Because that scenario is imaginary. It is absolutely about men, sexist men, and their reaction to the "Threat" of being challenged to think about why they like the things they like.
If you are a man who doesn't like the implication that you are part of the problem, then you need to do more to ensure that misunderstanding won't happen. You need to tell the men you know within your sphere of influence that when they engage in this behavior, or are audibly/publicly supporting it, that they are FUCKING UP, and they aren't helping anyone, or anything, with their destructive, selfish behavior.
plagiarize
Banned
It's bigots.
And no, not every fandom is as bad. Genre (sci-fi and horror) TV fandom is much more welcoming to females, and genre TV is much more inclusive and advanced in its portrayals of women to boot.
That's not to say it's perfect, but it's much better.
The attitude of makers trickles down to the players themselves, and the attitude of players affects how the makers make games, so I'd say it's same difference, given that by targeting one you're inherently targeting the other to a degree, especially now that Indie games mean the line between a player and someone making games is thinner than it's been for years.
DrROBschiz
Member
I think their are legitimate examples of abusive tactics being used by people persuing their side of an argument
But yes this particular case is very cut and dry..
Sorry to derail
Please stop with this. It isn't helpful to blame an entire group of people. There's lots of men in this very thread who are very sympathetic, and this is unfair to them. It doesn't really accomplish anything to cast such a wide net other than to upset your allies and further enrage those displaying already despicable behavior.
So your entire goal in this thread is to just repeat "Men are awful, men are bad, men are awful, men are bad" over and over again? Just what the conversation needed.
I don't agree with all of Anita's points, but I appreciate the way in which her videos have opened up discussion on the topic further. There is absolutely no need for anybody to be threatening her for any reason. She has opinions. Either argue reasonably with them, agree with them, or ignore them.
Those are your options.
From the transcript of the video from her site link below just search for Researchers its from part 1 of her video on women as background decoration.
Researchers have also found that after long-term exposure to hyper-sexualized images, people of all genders tend to be more tolerant of the sexual harassment of women and more readily accept rape myths, including the belief that sexually assaulted women were asking for it, deserved it or are the ones to blame for being victimized.
In other words, viewing media that frames women as objects or sexual playthings, profoundly impacts how real life women are perceived and treated in the world around us. And that is all without even taking into account how video games allow for the more participatory form of objectification that weve been discussing in this episode.
Compounding the problem is the widespread belief that, despite all the evidence, exposure to media has no real world impact. While it may be comforting to think we all have a personal force field protecting us from outside influences, this is simply not the case. Scholars sometimes refer to this type of denial as the third person effect, which is the tendency for people to believe that they are personally immune to medias effects even if others may be influenced or manipulated. Paradoxically and somewhat ironically, those who most strongly believe that media is just harmless entertainment are also the ones most likely to uncritically internalize harmful media messages.
In short, the more you think you cannot be affected, the more likely you are to be affected.
http://www.feministfrequency.com/2014/06/women-as-background-decoration-tropes-vs-women/
Aaronrules380
Member
I think the sad thing is that I'm sure the vast majority of feminists would love to be wrong about there being sexist undercurrents in todays society. They'd love to be overthinking it, or just be the only ones taking things that hard, because that would mean their ultimate goal has already been achieved. They have nothing to gain about being right about the situation. They do what they do because if they are right, the only way to make things better is through awareness.
How do they find someones address like that? This kinda harassment of someone is disgusting. I dont know who she is, but that's really mean to straight up harrass people like this just because of their opinions.
Most gamers aren't like this though... it's just those real vile ones tend to be spouting more shit. I just play games for fun, that doesn't make me whoever these assholes are. Generalizations are the worst
Most gamers aren't like this though... it's just those real vile ones tend to be spouting more shit. I just play games for fun, that doesn't make me whoever these assholes are. Generalizations are the worst
Saw this coming. Happens every time controversial themes are boiling up. So many idiots, or are these always the same few idiots? I can't tell. No matter how low you think about someone, threatening him/her with violence puts you way lower. And hurts your side instead the other way round.
I wonder if these idiots even realize they're validating everything said about them when they do this.
Jesus. That's horrifying to think about. Her family's in potential danger because someone didn't like her YouTube videos.
Question for malemarriedGaf
If shit like this would happen to your wife/daughter and some people on the internet are "defending" the whole thing, would you or would you not lose your shit?
I am a happily married gamer and I can't even imagine having such hate for women.
Where the fuck is this coming from?
If shit like this would happen to your wife/daughter and some people on the internet are "defending" the whole thing, would you or would you not lose your shit?
I am a happily married gamer and I can't even imagine having such hate for women.
Where the fuck is this coming from?
I don't feel like taking a ban given an admin has stepped in with the 'not all men' thing but yeah I would hope it's self evident.
I am white and I take no offence at people blaming whiteness and white supremacy in discussions of racism.
Huge Succeeded
Banned
#notallmen
It doesn't actually contribute to the discussion to make drive-by "all men are terrible people" posts, though. Only negativity can come from such posts, so I'd prefer if we did not have them.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
I don't consider it personally unfair to me. I find it's a largely accurate reading. That I don't count myself among those specific men is a key distinction, but one I'm confident in drawing myself when I read such rhetoric.
Entertaining the "not all men" distinction, no matter how differently it's worded, is distracting. It's obvious that it's "not all men." But if you read such a sentence and you feel defensive in response to the accurate assessment that there is definitely a gendered focus when it comes to who is being harassed and why, it's worth examining why that is, I think.
DoktorEvil
Banned
Sure, and it's always the vocal and abrasive fans.
Do we have any real people of influence actually soliciting her advice?
Why do you say "it's obvious"? It isn't always obvious to everyone. Not everyone thinks the same way as you propose. The lines of communication are always muddled when you think ofr eel something should be "obvious".
But as far as the first reaction to be defensive, it's human nature to defend any attacks on your person, whether broad or specific.
KojiKnight
Member
While there are certainly people who are exclusive to the gaming debate that are like this, the extreme lengths some people go to (as with what happened to OP) isn't (I think) an issue with culture or society but with mental health... see http://www.slate.com/articles/healt..._machiavellianism_narcissism_psychopathy.html
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