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[Pristine_Condition]

Considering those same publishers gladly let certain versions of games this gen run better or worse than others, and especially back in the ps2/xbox1 days where you had stuff where the ps2 version would do 480p and the Xbox version would have a better framerate at 720p, I find the idea that MS could pay publishers to actively tone down their own products utterly outlandish.

Exactly. And it Microsoft made such a demand, and word got out, Microsoft might find themselves in another bout of legal trouble in certain countries for anticompetitive practice, with their accomplices also feeling the heat. After all, the basis for such laws that regulate against practices such as price-fixing, ect. is to protect the public against practices that "effectively dismantle the free market to the detriment of the consumer."

To convince a publisher to do such a thing would require such a massive amount of money that it would be really, really hard to hide the payment required on the balance sheet of the publisher.

Also, such a thing, if found out, would be an instant PR disaster for a publisher that would hope to sell games on the PS4. Really the publisher would be better off taking money from Microsoft to just produce exclusives.

That's why I can't see this conspiracy theory ever coming to pass. It requires too many moving parts to fall into place, too much agreement across the board by publishers/devs, too much secrecy, and way too much money.

Microsoft would be better off using that cash for just lowering the price of the console, advertising the hell out of their versions of games, and moneyhatting exclusives. We know that this tactic works. The other tactic is pure fantasy at this point.

...

Seriously, junior, go to hell.

If we had some sort of cute kitty pic to accompany this quote, I could see this becoming a thing...

 

[iamvin22]

I know. I'm just asking why not do that from the start.

because their vision was focused on TV and a streamlined OS first. gaming second. also add that nobody would have ever thought that you can clam shell a unified pool of GDDR5 in a console. Cerny, said he did his home work and he proved it on feb 20th because nobody knew about the 8gigs.

 

[2MF]

if this is the case, why go with ESRAM on the same die? Why not copy what they did originally with xbox 360 and go with a daughter die on the same package?

I guess that would increase the latency.

 

[Steroyd]

They did this gen, why wouldn't they next gen? My hope is that the power difference will be substantial enough for developers to refuse to level the playing field, but that just seems like wishful thinking.

The only influence a console manufacturer has is the one that sells the most software.

On a whole I'm apprehensive about stuff like this, the RROD thing was awful, and I personally went through a couple of YLOD's as well, these types of rumors are enough to put me off for the time being.

 

[hardvibes]

Go Home Xbox, You're Half Baked

.

 

[daxter01]

Seriously, junior, go to hell. I've been contacted already on the issue by a mod and have given the reason for my comment. People like you are clearly only interested in playing silly games and trolling. I was actually taking the time to clarify some stuff on here and make it clear that this isn't some random opinion or statement that I tossed out there with no reason for doing so. I've made it clear already that it came from someone that I feel is especially trustworthy on this matter, and that it was more than enough reason for me to be able to say with confidence that this downclock business isn't true.

And because I believe the person to be a reliable source, I went so far as to say that if I'm wrong, I'd be more than willing to accept the consequences that come with that. Comments made by me were in the OP of this thread, so I thought I'd come in and stand by and take responsibility for what I said, as opposed to trying to run and hide from my statements.

And with that I'm done. Because clearly a lot of people in this thread have one purpose, and one purpose only.

 

[TAJ]

I can't help but feel that PS4 may come off as "just" an upgraded PS3, which may be difficult to sell. What is truly new? What sets PS4 apart from PS3? Why should people buy another one (anytime soon), especially with cross-gen games?

Hey, guys... PS2 is just an upgraded PS1. Sent to die.

 

[Thunder Monkey]

Ummm, yeah dude you're likely to end up banned long before we find out if you're right or not.

 

[2MF]

Manufacturing issues are real. A downclock is something that the individual is not aware of, and doesn't believe is true.

Seems to me you're splitting hairs here. If the manufacturing issues are indeed real and grave, a potential downclock is not very far off.

 

[wsippel]

if this is the case, why go with ESRAM on the same die? Why not copy what they did originally with xbox 360 and go with a daughter die on the same package?

Because it's faster. Also, 360 eDRAM is its own thing and shouldn't be compared to embedded memory in other systems in the first place. The embedded memory in Xbox One (or Wii U for that matter) isn't just a framebuffer.

 

[lastflowers]

I can't help but feel that PS4 may come off as "just" an upgraded PS3, which may be difficult to sell. What is truly new? What sets PS4 apart from PS3? Why should people buy another one (anytime soon), especially with cross-gen games?

I don't know about how they'll sell to consumers, but the sharing/streaming feature is really neat if they don't pull a sony and make it horrible to use.

I mean, I love my vita...but a lot of the functionality touted is horribly cumbersome. The Messaging/trophies/Near/Settings/etc is quite disappointingly terrible. Great games machine, though. put in more hours on that beast, and it's only going to get better with the ps4 rumored remote play stuff.

I'd reckon they also have a bunch of service-stuff that hasn't been announced yet. Again, not sure whether that sells to the majority

 

[mrklaw]

this plus the choppy UI is a bad combo (I'm sure they'll polish out the latter though). TBH MS just want a simple box that does everything well - it's perfectly possible they don't mind a downclock and will rely on 3rd party moneyhats or pressure to equalize ports somehow, along with crazy marketing money

 

[Klocker]

if this is the case, why go with ESRAM on the same die? Why not copy what they did originally with xbox 360 and go with a daughter die on the same package?

was wondering the same thing... I imagine fab Costs and at the time I think that was that he best method... But it sure would be hella lot safer with daughter die in retrospect if this rumor is true

 

[TAJ]

Because it's faster.

No. Quite the opposite.

 

[IHaveCandy]

I guess my idea is out the window then.


I agree that they can't really force or convince publishers to nerf their games to conform to Xbox One standards. It's like asking a professional team to tank so the team can get a better draft pick. Each individual player is trying to perform for their next contract. They aren't going to intentionally suck and have their credibility ruined and make less money..

 

[ekim]

Any updates in this 16 pages to the matter?

 

[kitch9]

I'm confused when people say developers will program to the lowest machine and port up....

Was the 360 the lowest powered machine last gen because that took the lead usually? The reason I think that was the case was because it was the easiest to create games for and they usually left the pain in the ass machine until last so it didn't slow down the other, therefore meaning it takes longer to get paid for creating said games.

 

[maltrain]

Any updates in this 16 pages to the matter?

No. Pointless discussions about who has the better sources and who is junior or not.

I mean... this is a forum. Let the people talk. Why so serious?

 

[Nikodemos]

TBH MS just want a simple box that does everything well

Well in that case they've already failed because the two requirements are antithetical. A simple box does a few things well. To do a lot of things well you need a complex box.

 

[jaosobno]

Any updates in this 16 pages to the matter?

Senjutsu flipped, told MogCakes to go to hell. Other than that, nothing.

 

[wsippel]

No. Quite the opposite.

wat

 

[Neko Mimi Mode]

More right than wrong. So I'd at least entertain them first, especially since they've been mod vetted to some extent (in the case of The Bird)

So no it's not even in the same ballpark.

Still wrong on several occasions, yet several people are leaping to wild and fantastical conclusions about GPU downclocks and Microsoft being doomed.

The fact it's being reported by stfuandplay, who's sources reliably informed us of Remedy working on Alan Wake 2 for the Xbox One release a month ago, is enough for me to question just how much anyone really knows or what they are simply speculating on .

 

[Key2001]

Unified for GPU and CPU. The 4GB of GDDR5 could still be unified. The 3 GB would just be partitioned for the other OS.

Perhaps it isn't exactly 3GB reserved, if it is around 2.7-2.8GB reserved there would be a decent amount of RAM wasted if they had a split pool with 3GB reserved for the OS. They also wouldn't be able to decrease the amount of RAM reserved for the OS in the future to use for games.

 

[TAJ]

PS2 had a DVD drive and was essentially a gaming console combined with a media player. Sony came off from a massive success and a position of domination, they came out earlier than the competition and it was much more obvious that it would hold a significant amount of (important) exclusives.

Also, you know, things were different back then.

DVD was already over three years old, and I bought an extra standalone player for $99.99 at CompUSA that year.
Meanwhile, PS3 was literally the cheapest Blu-ray player at one point.

 

[flipswitch]

Will you be disappointed if the Xbone's OS doesn't run as smooth/fast as what was displayed at the reveal?

 

[SenjutsuSage]

Seems to me you're splitting hairs here. If the manufacturing issues are indeed real and grave, a potential downclock is not very far off.

Sure, it may seem that way, but that's how it is. Manufacturing or yield issues are nothing new for consoles. Acknowledging that manufacturing issues with ESRAM are real isn't the same as saying that they are bad enough that a downclock might be inevitable.

Nonetheless, night, night all. Just thought I'd check a few more posts.

 

[M°°nblade]

It really doesn't matter that he 'offers' to confer with a mod. Read that exchange between him and the other poster that I quoted. There was no attacking his enthusiasm for the xbox - it was pointing out his history of attacking 'the math' as it pertained to discussions before as well as questioning where he's getting his info from. How can you not see that? If he gets credibility just for 'offering' to confer with a mod, then BY GOLLY GEE we should all believe him! No really, I would LOVE for a mod to take him up on that offer.

Exactly. There's no point for Senjutsu to hide behind 'opinions' because I never adressed any opinion part of his comments. Maths are not an opinion, neither is having a source.

I don't care whether he's pro xbox or not. But I do care whether it affects the truthfulness of his statements.

 

[Snapshot King]

this plus the choppy UI is a bad combo (I'm sure they'll polish out the latter though). TBH MS just want a simple box that does everything well - it's perfectly possible they don't mind a downclock and will rely on 3rd party moneyhats or pressure to equalize ports somehow, along with crazy marketing money

I just want to point out that to my knowledge, something like this has never happened ever in the history of the console business, so claims like this are ridiculous bordering on fantasy.

 

[krypt0nian]

Still wrong on several occasions, yet several people are leaping to wild and fantastical conclusions about GPU downclocks and Microsoft being doomed.

The fact it's being reported by stfuandplay, who's sources reliably informed us of Remedy working on Alan Wake 2 for the Xbox One release a month ago, is enough for me to question just how much anyone really knows or what they are simply speculating on .

That it's being backed up by multiple sources here should hold some weight, and people recognize that fact. Still miles ahead of Senjutsu's claims, especially with Matt chiming in.

Of course you can make your own mind up, but calling into question other posters is really not needed, especially the claim of spreading FUD which carries with it intent.

 

[dragonelite]

I may be totally wrong on this, but I thought RAM was the simplest part of designing these consoles.

It would fuck up motherboard logic having multiple memory controllers more lanes i think.

 

[Pistolero]

Gaf jumping the gun, as usual. It would be wiser to wait for other elements before storming out...

 

[WolvenOne]

Okay, quick 2 cents, for all it matters.

This may or may not be true. If true, it may or may not be a big deal, it'd depend how dramatic the clock change was.

Overall, it probably wouldn't have that big of an effect, but might effect perceptions. The two consoles have similar enough architectures that they should be able to scale visuals to the platform fairly well. Additionally, a lot of consumers cannot tell the difference between 1080p @60FPS, and 720p 30FPS, so in a vacuum the difference in power shouldn't make that big a difference.

These things don't exist in a vacuum however. If people hear the PS4 is more powerful, many will take that at face value. Those that don't, will likely look for signs the PS4 is more powerful, and since they're looking they'd likely find them. The fact that the visuals could be pretty similar would be largely immaterial. If one console is perceived as being significantly weaker, it'll hurt that consoles sales, to one degree or another.

 

[FullMetalx117]

Kind of have to side with SenJutsu. Sure he may be wrong in the end but he did take the time and possible risks of sharing some valuable information. He didn't have to share anything and if people don't want to believe him that fine but don't continue to question his credibility or search recent posts of his like its a witch hunt.

Honestly i dont know why anyone would want to share leaked information on here if Gafs response is always: if you are wrong you get a ban

 

[TAJ]

wat

?
256GBps vs 102GBps.

 

[maltrain]

Kind of have to side with SenJutsu. Sure he may be wrong in the end but he did take the time and possible risks of sharing some valuable information. He didn't have to share anything and if people don't want to believe him that fine but don't continue to question his credibility or search recent posts of his like its a witch hunt.

Honestly i dont know why anyone would want to share leaked information on here if Gafs response is always: if you are wrong you get a ban

I agree. This is stupid. Again: let the people talk.

 

[jaosobno]

TBH MS just want a simple box that does everything well

This could be the greatest issue with Xbone. Jack of all trades always ends up being master of none. Xbone sounds like it will do everything OK, but it will excel at nothing.

 

[Nikodemos]

Additionally, a lot of consumers cannot tell the difference between 1080p @60FPS, and 720p 30FPS, so in a vacuum the difference in power shouldn't make that big a difference.

Put them side-by-side and they definitely will.

 

[TAJ]

It was a significant shift/difference to its predecessor and it came at a time when DVDs had succeeded VHS.

It wasn't a selling point the way Blu-ray was for non-gamers, and PS2 was still far more successful.

 

[frankie_baby]

Why should 32mb esram cause microsoft so much of a problem? Doesn't seem to have caused issues for nintendo

 

[lightchris]

?
256GBps vs 102GBps.

The 256 GB/s is the internal bandwidth, bandwidth to the GPU is only 32 GB/s.

edit: And of course SRAM is faster than DRAM, that's the whole point.

 

[Unknown One]

Gaf jumping the gun, as usual. It would be wiser to wait for other elements before storming out...

They weren't when we heard anti-used games and always online rumors. That was pretty justified.

 

[MogCakes]

Kind of have to side with SenJutsu. Sure he may be wrong in the end but he did take the time and possible risks of sharing some valuable information. He didn't have to share anything and if people don't want to believe him that fine but don't continue to question his credibility or search recent posts of his like its a witch hunt.

Honestly i dont know why anyone would want to share leaked information on here if Gafs response is always: if you are wrong you get a ban

Because he refuses to actually address that inconsistency in his posts, and he has a history of questionable claims as pointed out by M°°nblade.

 

[Neko Mimi Mode]

That it's being backed up by multiple sources here should hold some weight, and people recognize that fact. Still miles ahead of Senjutsu's claims, especially with Matt chiming in.

Matt's chiming in was ambiguous, legit sources like crazybuttocks haven't commented and "multiple", ie, two sources have parroted basically the same thing.

Now that's just fine if you want to believe that, but it's not incorrect to say said sources have unreliable track records nor is it unfair to suggest they may only be partially right.

Is Microsoft experiencing issues? Certainly.

Are they downclocking the GPU? Unlikely.

 

[Septimius]

Seriously, junior, go to hell. I've been contacted already on the issue by a mod and have given the reason for my comment. People like you are clearly only interested in playing silly games and trolling. I was actually taking the time to clarify some stuff on here and make it clear that this isn't some random opinion or statement that I tossed out there with no reason for doing so. I've made it clear already that it came from someone that I feel is especially trustworthy on this matter, and that it was more than enough reason for me to be able to say with confidence that this downclock business isn't true.

And because I believe the person to be a reliable source, I went so far as to say that if I'm wrong, I'd be more than willing to accept the consequences that come with that. Comments made by me were in the OP of this thread, so I thought I'd come in and stand by and take responsibility for what I said, as opposed to trying to run and hide from my statements.

And with that I'm done. Because clearly a lot of people in this thread have one purpose, and one purpose only.

First off, fuck off with the junior-hostile attitude. That aside;
Your aggression won't really get you anywhere. I don't know if you're hurt that no one believes you're a credible source for no reason, but at this point, I find it just as likely that you're an MS employee, sent to do damage-control, so that the new Xbox isn't hurt by rumors regarding its performance. It'd be very in line with the whole number of transistors take they have on things.

Furthermore, if people criticize your credibility, you can't just say "you guys are so mean for not believing me". It doesn't make you any more credible.

Those things taken into account, I really see no reason to take what you say into account. I'm not familiar with this side of GAF, where people know who's credible and not based on past experiences, so I'll trust them. When they say they're not familiar with you, I'll roll with it. And for now, you just come across as an uninformed part that'd like for the Xbone to be good, and would also like to have some 'inside information'.

 

[MonkeyKnuckle]

Hi guys,

I've read the first couple of pages, is there any concrete evidence to this?

I run a gaming site and would like to post a story on this but can't based on Gaf-talk (even though it's credible) without some sort of proof.

Thanks

 

[Pristine_Condition]

Gaf jumping the gun, as usual. It would be wiser to wait for other elements before storming out...

I think you're unfairly indicting a whole lot of your fellow GAFers.

Many of us discussing this here are discussing this as simply a rumor, and trying to dissect how such a thing might or might not be possible.

Hi guys,

I've read the first couple of pages, is there any concrete evidence to this?

I run a gaming site and would like to post a story on this but can't based on Gaf-talk (even though it's credible) without some sort of proof.

Thanks

You're the "journalist."

Go do journalism.

 

[wsippel]

?
256GBps vs 102GBps.

I didn't write that part about "not comparing Xenos eDRAM to other systems with embedded memory" for no reason. That's the internal bandwidth on the daughter die, not between Xenos and the daughter die.

 

[Kaako]

Just read this entire thread. Holy shit.
IF true, then all I can do is smh @ MS.

 

[TAJ]

First off, fuck off with the junior-hostile attitude. That aside;
Your aggression won't really get you anywhere.

Consider taking your own advice.

 

[krypt0nian]

Matt's chiming in was ambiguous, legit sources like crazybuttocks haven't commented and "multiple", ie, two sources have parroted basically the same thing.

Now that's just fine if you want to believe that, but it's not incorrect to say said sources have unreliable track records nor is it unfair to suggest they may only be partially right.

Is Microsoft experiencing issues? Certainly.

Are they downclocking the GPU? Unlikely.

I'm going with the people who have legit sources in the past, some wrong calls or not. Especially since it matches up with the calls of MS being behind from earlier. Matt's chiming in didn't say which was true, but one is.

The denial of bad rumors in MS' case this ramp up to nextgen have all wound up with egg of their faces. I don't see it ending now with multiple sources AND Matt. YMMV.


Yes it's a rumor, but a very believable one at this juncture IMO.