These look like they'd be promising in motion
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Twilight Princess HD officially announced.
- Thread starter Azalean
- Start date
These look like they'd be promising in motion
4 more months until release. That's a lot of time to see where the graphics spit-shine goes.
Graphics aside (which tbh I don't care about really, if they add any lighting improvements between now and release great if not the game looks fine for what it is now) I really want to know what gameplay adjustments/game pacing changes they've got in there right now. This game will definitely feature gameplay adjustments as implied in the Direct. But now that we know Tantalus is working on it I wouldn't expect them to alter much of the core (such as stuff like enemy AI).
As a result, here are my new expectations of what they will change:
-Beginning will offer options to skip portions of it by providing literal yes/no options and if you select no in the dialogue tree then the game will continue on as normal to the next story beat/tutorial. This would help remove having to herd Goats two times (you likely will have to do it once, the second time more likely), skipping the baby basket sequence, skipping the fishing sequence, skipping the bee hive sequence, skipping the sword and slingshot sequences, and so on. I believe at least one of the tutorials in the original release does have a yes/no option and I think it was the sword one but I could be remembering incorrectly. So this isn't necessarily an out there expectation. Nintendo knows the intro is notoriously slow and awful, they will have definitely made it a bullet point for Tantalus to address (if not exactly what they want them to do).
-Tears of Light will see very minor adjustment in streamlining.
-Music will be uncompressed midis, not live music or orchestrated. The midis will sound better as a result of this but not to the extent most people want. If they can do what they did to Windfall Island's song in WWHD to nearly every song in TPHD then the soundtrack will certainly be miles better than it was originally -- reaching close to a live music feel without being live music. The credits sequence will almost assuredly have a new orchestrated/live music track during the part that credits Tantalus and whoever from Nintendo is involved with this remaster much like MM3D and OoT3D. So, that'll be nice.
-Epona's Whistle might be obtainable earlier.
-The overworld has no loading zones. This would be Hyrule Field only most likely. Meaning any village or specific area you go to will still require a loading zone since they are self-contained areas with their own loading zones for other areas (i.e Kakariko going into Death Mountain, for example). But hey if they can do it completely loading zone free I would be impressed. The reason I am expecting this is because they said they did exactly this for Hyrule Field when they were testing what Zelda game to remaster back in 2013's Direct.
-Faster vine climbing/faster animations in general. There's a lot of slow animations in TP that could benefit by being quicker or requiring a button press to go faster (in vine climbing's case, make A climb faster and B to let go instead of A to let go). Would be stupid if left alone.
-Ruppee notification fixed (meaning once you've picked up a blue ruppee and you turn off your system the next time you turn it on that notification will not appear again since you already collected it before and it's not "new" anymore).
-Wallet system redone in some way so you can have a bigger wallet earlier and when you open a ruppee chest with a full wallet you will take the ruppee regardless.
-All cutscenes that weren't skippable in the original are skippable now (Master Sword cutscene,
as two examples of unskippable cutscenes for no reason in the original release). Seriously this would not take much at all the functionality is already there, the game just denies you.
-Bugs/poes appear on the map screen to make the sidequests less tedious.
And I think that's all we can reasonably expect. There might be some smaller things they'll do I didn't think of and maybe some things I've thought of before that they'll do anyway (Wolf Songs being tweaked, for example). But I don't expect them.
As far as additions go, though... here's what I see now based on what we know:
-Since it is the Gamecube version and the primary control method is GamePad with the secondary likely being Pro Controller... there will be no Wii Remote option. Instead, how they will implement the mirrored world of the Wii version is by putting it in Hero Mode.
-As mentioned above, Hero Mode will be a thing and won't really address the core problem of TP's difficulty but it will be good enough for most people. Probably x4 the damage (since TP enemy damage is so fucking pitiful) and no hearts can be gotten in grass/pots in addition to the mirrored world. This will essentially be copying OoT3D's Master Quest without remixed dungeons.
-Since there is no way to refight bosses in the original release, they will include a Boss Mode with an additional Boss Rush Mode. I don't think it'll include mini-bosses but it would be neat if it did. Again, copying OoT3D in terms of additional modes since the bosses in TP are all actually pretty cool and fun to fight (except maybe one of them). Fighting them all one after the other would be really, really cool.
-There is nothing really unlockable after beating TP in the original release like there is in Wind Waker. Ordon's Village clothes would be really neat to unlock upon completing a save and being able to start a new save with the Ordon Clothes. Or, even the version of shirtless Ordon Link would be pretty funny to see as usable outside of the Bo Oily Slaps mini-game. This isn't some out there request, it's totally doable.
-Amiibos have to add something new to the game (as much as it pains me to say it). Whether it's like new weapons (like if you have a Ganondorf amiibo you get Ganondorf's sword), mini-dungeons to get a chest with some reward, some type of new tunic or literal skins, or what have you. I'm really curious what the hell these things will do -- surely not power-ups because the game is already pathetically easy, it doesn't need to be even easier. So that right there at least guarantees us some new content for this release (or reusing existing content, like I said such as Ganondorf's sword).
And I really think that's it. I doubt they'll add any new sidequests, mini-games, mini-dungeons, or move heart pieces out to Hyrule Field. I also doubt they will remix any dungeons for a Master Quest... though that would be incredible if they did and might even explain why Tantalus has been working on this since at least January 2014 (according to someone's post from earlier?) But again, that's why it's not part of my expectations -- just a pipe dream.
I think I'm being pretty reasonable with the above. I really am freaking curious what the hell amiibos will do for an already released game, it has to have new content tied to it in some form...
As a result, here are my new expectations of what they will change:
-Beginning will offer options to skip portions of it by providing literal yes/no options and if you select no in the dialogue tree then the game will continue on as normal to the next story beat/tutorial. This would help remove having to herd Goats two times (you likely will have to do it once, the second time more likely), skipping the baby basket sequence, skipping the fishing sequence, skipping the bee hive sequence, skipping the sword and slingshot sequences, and so on. I believe at least one of the tutorials in the original release does have a yes/no option and I think it was the sword one but I could be remembering incorrectly. So this isn't necessarily an out there expectation. Nintendo knows the intro is notoriously slow and awful, they will have definitely made it a bullet point for Tantalus to address (if not exactly what they want them to do).
-Tears of Light will see very minor adjustment in streamlining.
-Music will be uncompressed midis, not live music or orchestrated. The midis will sound better as a result of this but not to the extent most people want. If they can do what they did to Windfall Island's song in WWHD to nearly every song in TPHD then the soundtrack will certainly be miles better than it was originally -- reaching close to a live music feel without being live music. The credits sequence will almost assuredly have a new orchestrated/live music track during the part that credits Tantalus and whoever from Nintendo is involved with this remaster much like MM3D and OoT3D. So, that'll be nice.
-Epona's Whistle might be obtainable earlier.
-The overworld has no loading zones. This would be Hyrule Field only most likely. Meaning any village or specific area you go to will still require a loading zone since they are self-contained areas with their own loading zones for other areas (i.e Kakariko going into Death Mountain, for example). But hey if they can do it completely loading zone free I would be impressed. The reason I am expecting this is because they said they did exactly this for Hyrule Field when they were testing what Zelda game to remaster back in 2013's Direct.
-Faster vine climbing/faster animations in general. There's a lot of slow animations in TP that could benefit by being quicker or requiring a button press to go faster (in vine climbing's case, make A climb faster and B to let go instead of A to let go). Would be stupid if left alone.
-Ruppee notification fixed (meaning once you've picked up a blue ruppee and you turn off your system the next time you turn it on that notification will not appear again since you already collected it before and it's not "new" anymore).
-Wallet system redone in some way so you can have a bigger wallet earlier and when you open a ruppee chest with a full wallet you will take the ruppee regardless.
-All cutscenes that weren't skippable in the original are skippable now (Master Sword cutscene,
Midna monster transformation cutscene
-Bugs/poes appear on the map screen to make the sidequests less tedious.
And I think that's all we can reasonably expect. There might be some smaller things they'll do I didn't think of and maybe some things I've thought of before that they'll do anyway (Wolf Songs being tweaked, for example). But I don't expect them.
As far as additions go, though... here's what I see now based on what we know:
-Since it is the Gamecube version and the primary control method is GamePad with the secondary likely being Pro Controller... there will be no Wii Remote option. Instead, how they will implement the mirrored world of the Wii version is by putting it in Hero Mode.
-As mentioned above, Hero Mode will be a thing and won't really address the core problem of TP's difficulty but it will be good enough for most people. Probably x4 the damage (since TP enemy damage is so fucking pitiful) and no hearts can be gotten in grass/pots in addition to the mirrored world. This will essentially be copying OoT3D's Master Quest without remixed dungeons.
-Since there is no way to refight bosses in the original release, they will include a Boss Mode with an additional Boss Rush Mode. I don't think it'll include mini-bosses but it would be neat if it did. Again, copying OoT3D in terms of additional modes since the bosses in TP are all actually pretty cool and fun to fight (except maybe one of them). Fighting them all one after the other would be really, really cool.
-There is nothing really unlockable after beating TP in the original release like there is in Wind Waker. Ordon's Village clothes would be really neat to unlock upon completing a save and being able to start a new save with the Ordon Clothes. Or, even the version of shirtless Ordon Link would be pretty funny to see as usable outside of the Bo Oily Slaps mini-game. This isn't some out there request, it's totally doable.
-Amiibos have to add something new to the game (as much as it pains me to say it). Whether it's like new weapons (like if you have a Ganondorf amiibo you get Ganondorf's sword), mini-dungeons to get a chest with some reward, some type of new tunic or literal skins, or what have you. I'm really curious what the hell these things will do -- surely not power-ups because the game is already pathetically easy, it doesn't need to be even easier. So that right there at least guarantees us some new content for this release (or reusing existing content, like I said such as Ganondorf's sword).
And I really think that's it. I doubt they'll add any new sidequests, mini-games, mini-dungeons, or move heart pieces out to Hyrule Field. I also doubt they will remix any dungeons for a Master Quest... though that would be incredible if they did and might even explain why Tantalus has been working on this since at least January 2014 (according to someone's post from earlier?) But again, that's why it's not part of my expectations -- just a pipe dream.
I think I'm being pretty reasonable with the above. I really am freaking curious what the hell amiibos will do for an already released game, it has to have new content tied to it in some form...
But the game is likely locked down and completed.
Majoras Mask 3D was finished months in advanced.
Astral Dog
Member
1080p
Wii U is a capable 720p machine, but anything more not much, i remember a lot of complains about the framerate of WW HD, not that they could not try with this, it looks...too clean-
The catch with Wind Waker (and even Twilight Princess) is that they likely aren't even using the entire power of the system. The engines were made to run on a single core, meaning there's no real true way of splitting out stuff like physics or other events to other cores without basically making a whole new engine and then remaking the game in that engine.
So any major physics or other 'events' in the game code are still going to dominate the game update loop until they complete.
Bots are better than you
Banned
I don't know, are the glitches reproducable? As for assets, I'd say that most if not all assets were replaced or touched up.
And even if OoT and MM 3D were just enhanced ports, it's still comparing something with much less complexity to a GCN/Wii game, on a different system, by a different developer and a different budget.
And Shibata said in the Direct that Tantalus did not only work on the graphics, it's possible that they had priorised other things.
Astral Dog
Member
i did not know that, makes things a bit more difficult then. i see Smash 4, probably the most ambitious 1080p game on the system, and it seems to vary between Wii/GC level graphics and a bit beyond.with some nice lighting.
Smash 4's graphics are due to wanting to hit 60fps, with 8 characters on screen at once, then you add in the items flying around, and any stage effects, and the fact that the camera is pulled way back most of the time makes it less noticeable.
Basically the more characters you want on screen, the less budget per-character you can have. So Killer Instinct can have super complex character graphics because there's only ever two. Smash has 8 characters, assist trophy characters, items, and the stage all having real time physics interaction with other.
I think it's weird that so many people seem to think emulators + texture packs are a viable alternative for any but a small fraction of dedicated enthusiast gamers.
Or that it's in any way instructive to compare work done by employees of a company on a strict budget with ROI concerns to work done by amateurs who can spend as much time as they want on a project because they aren't paying themselves and won't be selling their work.
Or that it's in any way instructive to compare work done by employees of a company on a strict budget with ROI concerns to work done by amateurs who can spend as much time as they want on a project because they aren't paying themselves and won't be selling their work.
Astral Dog
Member
True i even forgot about the 60fps
suppose TP could still get a noticeable lighting upgrade then.
Or! People could hold on to their nut and wait for more info, since almost all speculation this early onespecially the kneejerk negative kindends up being wrong in the end.
We wouldn't have to speculate if Nintendo shared all the infos with us in the first place. Shame on them really.
Since when do reveal trailers give all that info he mentioned for any game? When has Nintendo ever given out that kind of information in a Direct? You expected a spec sheet on the screen in a Nintendo presentation? Come on.
How hard would it be for them to give some bullet points after the trailer. Or release a press release after the direct with at least som bare bones info. After all, this is a remake out in less than four months. It's not a reveal for a brand new game that's years off. The lack of details feels completely unnecessary.
With that said, it's Twilight Princess in HD. That's enough for me.
bengraven
Member
It's not an issue of how "hard" it would be, it's the fact that doing something like that is totally out of character for the company. Anyone who expects them to roll out a spec sheet for a newly announced game has been paying zero attention to this company for the past twenty years.
And yet, despite the fact that they don't do this, the games they deliver impress more often than not. So, armed with that knowledge, how about we all take a chill pill?
RPGCrazied
Member
It was, I never died, save for in the hole with lots of enemies side quest.
A team of professionals who work as fast as they possibly can as part of their job description should be able to do better work than one guy in his free time. Especially when that one guy has no access to the game's code and has to use hacks and workarounds to force his effects in. And no, this one guy has not had that much more time to work on this than they have.
There was a lot more than just bloom added in WWHD. It had full ambient occlusion, real time shadows cast by everything in the environment, volumetric clouds (which also cast real time shadows), and a generally obvious overhaul of the lighting system all around.
This game has no shadows, no AO, no enhancement to the lighting system, no new effects or assets outside of a texture update which is so subtle that it took a direct comparison to even make it evident it was there for a lot of people. It's a technically inferior update to WWHD, OoT3D, or MM3D. All of those games had far more enhancement than this. Which is a shame, considering how much more poorly this game aged than WW.
Yup. The enhancements to WW/OoT/MM are much more substantial and immediately noticeable.
This is a texture pack.
Oh? Can you link me to your source that spells out precisely when this HD project was started and how many people have been working on it, using how many man hours? And also the same details for all of these fan projects?
Even if you were right about the time spent, the fact still remains that the vast majority of the fan projects that have been linked on here have looked absolutely terrible. And I mean terrible. Not only are they full of textures that are objectively worse than what Nintendo showed, but they also adopt new color pallettes and lighting techniques that make the game not look like Twilight Princess anymore from an aesthetic point of view. The fact that so many people on here are linking these videos saying they look "better" is a good example of why not everyone has the talent to be a game designer.
All of which in my opinion greatly compromised the original look and feel of the game. Those additions are bullet points, not objective improvements from a qualitative standpoint. Frankly, WWHD could have done with fewer "enhancements".
Astral Dog
Member
WW HD looked beautiful imo, if you want the original on HD there are other options.
Certainly more care than this.
FreedomFighter
Member
I never knew so many people though TP had bad art. I loved the art style in the game.
I'm also looking forward to playing it again. I just hope they do a Master Quest with it. Or at least Hero Mode, cause the game is far too gaddamn easy.
I'm also looking forward to playing it again. I just hope they do a Master Quest with it. Or at least Hero Mode, cause the game is far too gaddamn easy.
It looked OK, but it completely did away with the flat, cartoonish look the game was always meant to have, and gave it too much depth. Technically it's better, but artistically it lost something in the transition.
……forgetit
Member
Good for you, you're getting it a few months later.
RPGCrazied
Member
Probably holiday 2016.
……forgetit
Member
Beelzebufo
Banned
TP is the only Zelda game I've completely 100%'d, and for the life of me I couldn't tell you the name of the girl on the cover. Illia? Nadine? Lily?
I guess the character designers spent all of their time on the enemies, Midna, and Ooccoo.
I guess the character designers spent all of their time on the enemies, Midna, and Ooccoo.
Illia. She's barely in the game so I don't blame you for not remembering her.
illusionary
Member
So, have we seen anywhere that the EU special edition can be ordered from yet? I heard reports of availability from amazon.de, but only for a brief period earlier today.
Professor Beef
Banned
Nearly a year, IIRC. TPHD actually went back into QA 2-ish months ago, so stuff might've changed since then.
I never expected TPHD look like the Zelda graphics demo.
I didn't even expect it to have new textures other than beautifully upscaled ones like what they did with Wind Waker for the most part.
I did however expect them to do what they did with Wind Waker and update the lightning, especially considering the more realistic light and bloom fits TP a lot more than Wind Waker. It's a shame because it would have done a lot.
Also, I enjoyed the smooth otherworldly bloom in twilight realm, it's a pity they toned it down.
I didn't even expect it to have new textures other than beautifully upscaled ones like what they did with Wind Waker for the most part.
I did however expect them to do what they did with Wind Waker and update the lightning, especially considering the more realistic light and bloom fits TP a lot more than Wind Waker. It's a shame because it would have done a lot.
Also, I enjoyed the smooth otherworldly bloom in twilight realm, it's a pity they toned it down.
Sorry, it wasn't meant to say "all Zelda fans", but rather "some Zelda fans". Fact proven also by the reactions to every Zelda game in history.
I've always liked how TP looks. It ages badly, but I think its style is fairly on point and the in-game models for the main characters (Link, Midna, Zant, Ganondorf specifically) are excellent, in my opinion.
A lot of the side characters don't fare quite as well.
I mean, geez.
But stuff like this
looks pretty great to me. Flat environments aside I think the use of colour, the quality of the models and the overall design of things is quite appealing. Some liken this to "polishing a turd", but I think the two biggest problems with TP's graphics was blurriness and texture quality; the first problem is getting rectified completely, and the second - while one could've hoped for a bit more - is also less of a problem now.
A lot of the side characters don't fare quite as well.
I mean, geez.
But stuff like this
looks pretty great to me. Flat environments aside I think the use of colour, the quality of the models and the overall design of things is quite appealing. Some liken this to "polishing a turd", but I think the two biggest problems with TP's graphics was blurriness and texture quality; the first problem is getting rectified completely, and the second - while one could've hoped for a bit more - is also less of a problem now.
Nostremitus
Member
Still kinda bummed we didn't get to see Telma with her new assets...
Yo I'm back! Missed you all. Love you all.
On topic: TP is my first Zelda so of course I have to buy the HD Limited Edition. Have been watching Amazon DE since yesterday and finally today they opened the pre-order floodgates... for about 10 minutes. Sold out. (lol)
Although 80 is a lot for it, but I'm sure it'll drop in price until release.
On topic: TP is my first Zelda so of course I have to buy the HD Limited Edition. Have been watching Amazon DE since yesterday and finally today they opened the pre-order floodgates... for about 10 minutes. Sold out. (lol)
Although 80 is a lot for it, but I'm sure it'll drop in price until release.
Seriously, it was already on amazon.de? Damn, I missed it.
Nostremitus
Member
I know, right? Telma is GOAT.
Can't believe we're getting this in HD!
Yep, I pre-ordered it.
……forgetit
Member
I actually drove to a store and pre-ordered today. I think they've stopped taking them now though. On the upside picked up a mewtwo amiibo while I was out.
It's up on BestBuy.com again. Just ordered one.
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/the-leg...ii-u/8476002.p?id=1219692427284&skuId=8476002
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/the-leg...ii-u/8476002.p?id=1219692427284&skuId=8476002
You make it sound like the only improvement in OOT3D was Link when they updated pretty much everything from world geometry to textures
Barrow Roll
Member
And that cutscene probably the best look you get in the game at the crappy Castle Town NPCs. Every other time you're in Castle Town the camera is zoomed out and fixed.