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Twitch temporarily bans white streamer after Apex Legends cosplay
- Thread starter Shin
- Start date
Boaty McBoatface
Member
So I assume this works the other way?
Terce
Member
How about, it's perfectly find to cosplay black characters but just leave your goddamn skin color alone. Just like it's perfectly acceptable for black people to cosplay asian anime characters.
Anyone can dress up as anyone, just don't be so culturally insensitive that you change your skin color.
Mista
Banned
It doesn’t work in any way.
Yup, that will definitely work and it’s acceptable.
Sqorin Hammerfarf
Banned
This is cosplay segregation, and it isn’t right. Seriously, cosplay is a celebration of a character, not a mockery of a race. By making it off limits, you are literally making it so people cannot celebrate black characters. Do you think that’s going to help race relations or increase the racial divide?
But the real question is why anyone would celebrate Lifeline...
mcz117chief
Member
Black makeup is NOT blackface. Good grief.
Shin
Banned
Apparently since I often see it, talk about a shitty perspective.
Mista
Banned
Go on do whatever cosplay you want just leave your skin colour alone. There’re white people that made black characters cosplay without paining their skin and black people that made anime characters cosplays without painting their skin too. What’s so hard in doing that exactly?
Hey, I’d celebrate Lifeline but not that toxic Wraith
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BlackOlivesMatter
Banned
Black people aren't Japanese either, so I better not see them cosplaying as anime characters.....right?
See how this all works?
HeisenbergFX4
Gold Member
I think its fine to cosplay African Americans as long as you dont caricature them, but what do I know I am 50 something white male.
Sqorin Hammerfarf
Banned
Why is skin color sacred? It’s as much a part of the character as anything else. Heck, with Apex Legends, I’d argue that they started their character designs with the skin color.
Ulysses 31
Member
It works fine if you buy into the oppression hierarchy and punching up.
FearlessBelgian
Member
Hahahahahaha !
Sqorin Hammerfarf
Banned
Is this blackface though? Surely, context is important to such learned and reasonable people like ourselves?
Mista
Banned
I didn’t word my first post correctly;
It doesn’t offend me in any way. I’m just fucking bored of all this drama since everything is offensive today somehow
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Helios
Member
I don't understand this. It's clearly not blackface and is in no way disrespectful towards black people.
Mista
Banned
What’s the story behind this
Hey that reminds me of this dutch tradition.
Enygger_Tzu
Banned
I just wish to sit that technical rainbow in between that made this decision, down a chair, tie him and have him watch Greek movies of the 60's for all week.
Either it will be reformed or it'll lock itself in its mamas basement and won't come out ever. Win-Win scenario.
Either it will be reformed or it'll lock itself in its mamas basement and won't come out ever. Win-Win scenario.
pr0cs
Member
Then why would you want to side with the people that want to continue to perpetuate the drama. This isn't black face in any sense of the word
Sqorin Hammerfarf
Banned
I’m asking if this actually qualifies as blackface despite celebrating a black character and not mocking in any way or if you are not making the distinction because context is irrelevant to you and anything even remotely related to skin color is offensive.
Wings 嫩翼翻せ
so it's not nice
This is one of those times where, if this streamer and I were buddies and she said, "I wanna cosplay as Lifeline!" I would say "that's a great idea!" -- then see the execution and say "um... maybe not on camera."
People would have gotten it if she kept everything but the make-up, the rest would have been understandable.
Ulysses 31
Member
You really think that would fly? I can foresee plenty accusations of white washing... >.>
Sqorin Hammerfarf
Banned
I did indeed. My apologies. Maybe I should go get my morning caffeine before posting further...
Mista
Banned
Personally it doesn’t offend me in any way but I can see the drama from now if it happened
spandexmonkey
Banned
Reminds me when they went after a Korean cosplayer for dressing up like Sombra including a spray tan. As a latino I thought she looked good.
The left saw things differently:
The left saw things differently:
silentstalker
Neo Member
The main purpose of cosplay is to be as similar as possible to the character you want to portray. This is an unpopular opinion but I don't see it as any form of offense to the black community is any way.
If a black person will paint himself white to cosplay a white character, nobody will bat an eye.
If a black person will paint himself white to cosplay a white character, nobody will bat an eye.
Mega Man
Member
I certainly see both sides.
Why is it even necessary to change skin color to reflect a character when dressing up in their garb or acting like them in some way should fully suffice? If it offends individuals who historically have been persecuted based on their skin color specifically, shouldn't we respect them as best as we possibly can? If individuals of a specific race or ethnic background speak out against such an act, shouldn't that be enough?
Then there is the argument of authenticity. While we change our lip, eyebrow, eye, or any other color why must we leave our skin untouched? Why is the subject so sensitive that we can't celebrate others of another race as authentically as possible through cosplay?
Then there is the argument of equality. In recent examples, actors/comedians have changed their skin color to represent the other race in a "humorous" way to much praise by the public majority. These chows/movies are still aired and celebrated on television to this day... Where do we draw the line? Must you be a paid actor to partake in this action? Does that make it okay? Should these shows be removed from our stations and be ridiculed with a new mindset? It's tough to know exactly where we as a society should draw the line. Because ultimately, this is NOT a CosPlay problem. This is a people problem, and the thoughts and feelings of all those involved.
Why is it even necessary to change skin color to reflect a character when dressing up in their garb or acting like them in some way should fully suffice? If it offends individuals who historically have been persecuted based on their skin color specifically, shouldn't we respect them as best as we possibly can? If individuals of a specific race or ethnic background speak out against such an act, shouldn't that be enough?
Then there is the argument of authenticity. While we change our lip, eyebrow, eye, or any other color why must we leave our skin untouched? Why is the subject so sensitive that we can't celebrate others of another race as authentically as possible through cosplay?
Then there is the argument of equality. In recent examples, actors/comedians have changed their skin color to represent the other race in a "humorous" way to much praise by the public majority. These chows/movies are still aired and celebrated on television to this day... Where do we draw the line? Must you be a paid actor to partake in this action? Does that make it okay? Should these shows be removed from our stations and be ridiculed with a new mindset? It's tough to know exactly where we as a society should draw the line. Because ultimately, this is NOT a CosPlay problem. This is a people problem, and the thoughts and feelings of all those involved.
StormCell
Member
I think there should be some exceptions on this sort of thing. Like, if we know someone is artistic, we should give their art the benefit of the doubt rather than trampling on it and using racism as the reason for punishment. She is very obviously not being racist or racially offensive. Why squelch her artistic expression? Artists can be really particular with detail, and something like getting the skin color right is just as important as the rest of the work... you can't say "You can do these 9 things and still get the same effect, but you'll just have to accept that we won't let you do the 10th thing because RACIALLY INSENSITIVE." No, it doesn't work like that.
Shame on Twitch. They deserve to lose the content for their inflexible standards.
Shame on Twitch. They deserve to lose the content for their inflexible standards.
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Terce
Member
Regardless of the cosplayer's intent, there is a history that goes along with something like blackface that is by and large derogatory and outright aggressive. I am white, and have never experienced that type of discrimination nor can I really appreciate going through it. The best thing I can do is avoid overtly doing something (such as blackface) that has a longstanding history of being offensive to a group of people.
It doesn't matter what the current climate is like, something like blackface is a reference (whether you agree or not) to a time when black people were being lynched and blackface was done to mock and harass them. Your assumed right of expression, which is commonly misunderstood to be the first amendment (hint: it's not), is gone the second that expression impacts negatively to someone else.
This is not a "snowflake" issue and while the streamer may have not actually meant anything negative, people need to understand that in today's climate of culture you can't do shit like this. Especially if you're in the public eye like a stream, just take 5 seconds to stop and think about what your doing and how it might impact others. If everyone did this we'd be in a much better place than we are right now.
Lanrutcon
Member
Today's climate of culture is one of sensitivity, victimhood and outrage. Considering how your actions might impact others is only a reasonable course of action if said others are being reasonable in turn. If they are not, then all you're doing is giving in to the crazy. This does not make society any better. This does not improve the world. There are actions that legitimately affect others in a negative fashion. Attempting to emulate and glorify a person of color via cosplay is not one of them.
Michele
you.
So whites aren't allowed to cosplay as black peoples/black characters? That looks racist if you ask me
Terce
Member
I agree with you here, however then it brings an important decision to you (or whoever we're speaking about hypothetically): Do you move forward with reckless abandon, not caring about what others think and thus ostracizing yourself to be shunned for your "radical" actions. Or do you think about the impact of what you're about to do and how it might be received, regardless of whether or not you agree with those consuming your performance / witnessing your actions?
Are you a person of color whose family has a history of being harassed or oppressed, maybe even by those in blackface going back as recent as the 60s and 70s? If not I don't think you're really qualified to say whether or not an action that is received by someone such as that is negative or not. I know I certainly can't appreciate how someone in that circumstance will feel and while I wouldn't find it personally offensive, is it really so much to ask to just NOT do the thing?
This is almost the same discussion people are having around the difficulty level of Sekiro, with the argument being if it's too hard just don't play it. How about if you're not a particular race, just don't pretend to be. We now live in a society where this thinking is the norm, and while not everyone agrees with it (myself included) you still need to behave a certain way if you want to integrate. All the power to you, act like whatever you want to, but don't then strike back at those who shun you by calling them wrong.
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Handy Fake
Member
Yeaaaaah, I knew before I opened the thread what she'd done.
You have to be pretty simple to not know that "black face" is a no-no in this day and age.
You have to be pretty simple to not know that "black face" is a no-no in this day and age.
Mista
Banned
Helios
Member
I think the difference here is that you see this as blackface and I don't. I also don't think anyone is impacted negatively by this like you said. Maybe it's a difference in culture or I come from a place of ignorance but if I saw that photo without context I wouldn't have even thought of any racist undertones.