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[MMaRsu]

Wow y'all still talking about this? Good grief

 

[Enjay]

Well this announcement was made to start a conversation.

 

[Redneckerz]

'representation rape' is definitely one of the funniest thing I've ever read on this forum. Holy lol.

When all current terminology fails, just make up a new word.

"more representative "

Where's china and india represented in this game? Oh, right. Diversity means more black, less white.

There is also no fursona, so if we are going to take this topic literally, then the game still needs some catching up to do.

Ironically exaggerated for effect but it's a real belief. They see years of being forced to play a non-representative character against their will as a sin (and anything against their will is basically rape). Of course, nobody else thinks it is a sin, much less rape, because they skipped intersectionality day at the local community college. But they do. Just read any article on representation in gaming and you'll see it.

Careful. You haven't seen Ree's take on this. Spoiler: They are now upset about the look of the characters.

Wow y'all still talking about this? Good grief

Join the club instead! What good does it have to be good griefing us?

Well this announcement was made to start a conversation.

And that right there is the problem with the announcement in the first place.

 

[Aurelian]

First, what are you defining as "brown people"? Depending on what you consider brown people, that statement might technically be true, but only because Indians are such a large majority. They don't even need black people to outnumber white people. They do it easily already. But something tells me you weren't thinking about India when you said this.

Just for fun, let's see what proportionate representation would look like. White people make up about 16% of the world's population, while black people make up 15%. South Asian (basically India and surrounding areas) makes up 21% and East Asia (China, Japan, Korea) make up 24%. There's only about 3 million Polynesians worldwide.

Assuming 8 characters, proportionate representation would look like this:
2 Asians
2 Indians
1 White
1 Black
1 Hispanic
1 Middle Eastern
0 Polynesian

Pathfinder is a robot, and Bloodhound's race is unknown and thus irrelevant. If you wanted to aim for a proportionate representation where every combination of race, gender, and sexual orientation has at least one character in the game, you'd need about 2000 playable characters - possibly much, much more.

Now, it would be absurd to aim for proportionate representation of worldwide numbers because the game is not equally sold to ever member of humanity. If you limit it to just the countries the game is available in, the demographics change considerably. And if you limit it even further to just the potential audience for a military battle royale first person shooter, well, the demographics will be very, very different (it's going to be all male, and majority white, basically). That's why representation is a fool's errand. Context of the representation will affect the make up of that representation, certainly leading to less diversity.

Brown people includes a wide gamut... and yes, I was thinking about the all-encompassing "brown," which includes places like India and Pakistan as well as Latin America.

And all I was saying is that the game is more representative of humanity. Although I have to ask: why do you think the potential audience for a battle royale shooter is all male and mostly white? I know numerous women and non-white people who play battle royale games, and I can't imagine why a developer would shoot themselves in the foot by limiting their audience to white men.

 

[Thiagosc777]

Brown people includes a wide gamut... and yes, I was thinking about the all-encompassing "brown," which includes places like India and Pakistan as well as Latin America.

You do realize that are people from all over the world are living in Latin America, right? Including the biggest Japanese colony outside of Japan and many other ethnicities who moved there long ago. (Besides the natives, who always lived there)

The problem with these discussions is that it is usually some American leftist pushing this American centric view of things that doesn't even match the reality in the US, let alone in the rest of the world. This is the type of person who believes that every person living in Latin America looks like your stereotypical Mexican peasant from American TV shows. They are for fighting for "diversity" based on their own warped imagination about the world.

 

[MMaRsu]

I dunno I'm like okay well good for them now lets play the damn game cause its amazing lol

 

[cormack12]

The problem is people like you THINK we have a problem with gay people, so you try to force it down our throats in some sort of weird revenge fantasy. You're fucking delusional, and the quality, variety, and value of the products being created is suffering enormously because you are too busy tilting at windmills.

They show two girls kissing and people go, "whatever". And then they go, "I'll bet that made your blood boil, you homophobe!" and everyone goes, "What the fuck is wrong with you?" and they go, "See? Your blood is boiling! Obviously, it is because you ARE a homophobe! Here's even more girls kissing! Go back to Hitler, you Nazi!"

This is pretty much it. Like when you are having a calm, rational disagreement and someone throw in 'why you mad?', then you say 'I'm not mad' and it escalates from there. I think the thread has largely been courteous to be honest and a good illustration why the debate needs to be had. See, let's just for one minute take my position as an apparently white privileged male. I read those rosters or become aware of the representation issue.

So my first thought is, this isn't story based so why does it matter? The bottom line is that I have a few characters to choose from, blank slates except their visuals. Now, I can choose to bestow whatever back story I want onto them, if I want to play Lifeline as a lesbian character in my head that's what I'm free to do. But wait, the bio is insinuating everyone else is straight.

Wait, except for Gibraltar.
Hang on though, does that mean I can only identify with him because he's gay?
But I don't like his class!
Never mind, I'll just play another character because it doesn't really matter.
...
Exactly.

Like I said earlier, this is about this rabid, toxic element of gamers that want to feel they have an influence in gaming. And if they don't then they spit their dummy out and cry all over social media.

Where was the outcry about Bill in TLoU?
Where was the outcry about Chloe in UC:LL?
Aloy in Horizon?
Evie/Aya/Kassandra in AC?
Dorian/Iron Bull in DA:I?
Gay marriage in Fable?
Trevor in GTA V?
Ellie in Left Behind?
Chloe in LiS?
Multiple in ME?

No one cares when it is tasteful. In fact I'd argue that the integrity of representation is held to a higher standard than those who blindly just want to insert diversity just for lulz.

 

[7echnicolor]

Ellie in Left Behind?

This actually was a thing, at least for a little while on these forums.

 

[cormack12]

This actually was a thing, at least for a little while on these forums.

I vaguely recall some outcry but I'm sure that was focused on the age plus sexuality aspect of it? There was no outcry that Riley was black for example.....

There is bigger outcry from the same people that lara crofts face looks weird /shrug

 

[Antoon]

I'd love to see them go full woke. Add characters that are transgenders, obese and elderly women, furries, soy boys, an illegal immigrant that fights while carrying a child.

Not a game, but I am working on an animated mini-series which is set to include most of those groups.+1 for social justice.

 

[LMJ]

I suppose what I would say is, does it tie into a story in a reasonable and well-written manner if they want to make a big deal about it...

Kind of like the whole Dumbledore's gay thing, after the book series was finished Rowling just let it slip that Dumbledore was gay, but it had no relevance to the story so it wasn't included, the only reason she even said so is because she was asked by someone about his past.

Tomorrow if Naughty Dog revealed that Sully has been gay this whole time, despite the greatness of their games I would just assume they're doing it for clicks and because that sort of thing is "in" right now as it has no relevance to the games... wouldn't change my opinion of the character, still love the Sull master lol

Really boils down to was this done for Creative purposes or is this just more of the same modern grandstanding and hopes to get "clicks" and be the most "woke"?

 

[Jenenser]

Really? Which one is Asian?

The robot. ever seen a korean starcraftplayer?

 

[Deleted member 1235]

Pretty sure Gibraltar isn’t really gay because when I play as him he gets fucked by everyone.

 

[ShadyJ]

Who gives a damn

 

[Dunki]

And all I was saying is that the game is more representative of humanity. Although I have to ask: why do you think the potential audience for a battle royale shooter is all male and mostly white? I know numerous women and non-white people who play battle royale games, and I can't imagine why a developer would shoot themselves in the foot by limiting their audience to white men.

1. Imagine where these games are being played . India? I do not think so.
2. Being inclusive means everyone WITHOUT EXCEPTION
3, It is pretty strange to me not ALSO carter to white men and boys in this regard.

But hey this is just me since you have black and Indian friends I guess You know more about this than everyone else.

Oh wait did you just use I have black friends argumentation?.....

 

[eot]

This doesn't bother me, but I'll never understand it. Do people enjoy the game more because they can shoot other people while playing as a character who's trans, according to some official backstory tidbit somewhere out of game? Sure, you might pick a certain character based on your tastes, or your mood or something, but that has to do with how that character manifests in the game (model, outfit, VO etc.). If I read some backstory about the leet krew skin in CS, it's not gonna change anything.

 

[InterMusketeer]

Do people enjoy the game more because they can shoot other people playing as a character who's trans, according to some official backstory tidbit somewhere out of game?

What, you don't?
I know I absolutely love shootings the gays 'till they're dead.


Just about as much as I love shooting straight people.