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UK-GAF: How do you guys celebrate America kicking your ass?

"Nothing important happened today"

Yanks spent their time whipping blacks to pick cotton and napalming kids

Brits started the industrial revolution and invented penicillin.

Happy 4th July
That quote actually comes from the king of France's diary, not George III's. I blame the X Files for spreading that misconception.

Which is actually rather ironic, given that you can trace the French Revolution directly back to the cries of liberty and freedom that their soldiers heard fighting alongside the Americans, that eventually led to the French monarch's destruction.

And yes, the Americans were rather backwards morally compared to the British Empire for around a century, but they also enshrined equality and freedoms of expression into the foundations of their society, that we should all be envious of.

After the British Empire was broken apart and decided to be broadly a bad idea, we should all be thankful it was the Americans, who share british values and ethics, that filled the power vacuum, and not any other culture, because look at how ghastly the alternatives are out there, both historically with the Germans, French and Russians, and today with the Chinese.

There's a reason we Brits consider the yanks our closest allies, even over our geographical neighbours, despite them starting out rebelling against us.

The things we have in common are far more important than what sets us apart.
 
That quote actually comes from the king of France's diary, not George III's. I blame the X Files for spreading that misconception.

Which is actually rather ironic, given that you can trace the French Revolution directly back to the cries of liberty and freedom that their soldiers heard fighting alongside the Americans, that eventually led to the French monarch's destruction.

And yes, the Americans were rather backwards morally compared to the British Empire for around a century, but they also enshrined equality and freedoms of expression into the foundations of their society, that we should all be envious of.

After the British Empire was broken apart and decided to be broadly a bad idea, we should all be thankful it was the Americans, who share british values and ethics, that filled the power vacuum, and not any other culture, because look at how ghastly the alternatives are out there, both historically with the Germans, French and Russians, and today with the Chinese.

There's a reason we Brits consider the yanks our closest allies, even over our geographical neighbours, despite them starting out rebelling against us.

The things we have in common are far more important than what sets us apart.

The more you know

Canada - Cousin of stoner aunt and uncle
Australia - Step brother with a crazy mother, doing its own thing
America - Fat ginger spoilt kid from down the street

I like the yanks that stay in America and get on with it. They have a very classically-British outlook on life. The exported Americans are the biggest pains in the arse I've ever met. I've never known a nation with such polar-opposite people.
 

SirTerry-T

Member
d6c395d4-c16b-444e-8707-d79abb1787d3_1.3549dd275c8959ec965d440ecaea2e03.png


englishmen think this is a golf club
That's just a big rounders bat... for your grown ups on the other side of the pond that like to play a big boys game of rounders. A game with a ridiculous number of innings and "stats" thrown in to make the big boys feel like they are not playing a game that most of us Limeys grew out of by the time we reached eight years old.
 

timeflais

Banned
Happy Independence Day! I know I'll be waiting for sundown to enjoy some fireworks. But this makes me wonder: how do our former evil overlords across the pond celebrate their defeat? Do you supplicate yourselves in from of star spangled eagle altars and beg for forgiveness for taxing us without representation? And what do you do to thank the French on our behalf?

Considering the royal family own(ed) the federal reserve, you've been under a delusional spell that the USA had any real independence... until recently.
 

Woffls

Member
imagine thinking french fries are better than that glorious example of British chips ^ phwoar.

e: we have fries over here and they're just really skinny chips but they're so deeply inferior that we don't talk about them. Also the French etc
 
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jufonuk

not tag worthy
I watched both Independence Day movies. Back to back. A film channel I. The U.K. as showing them.
 
The same way they're going to celebrate India kicking their ass 73 years ago next month I'll expect.

At their peak, the English had a massive swathe of the world under their influence/control.. I don't imagine they spend time brooding over what they've lost as much as their former territories might choose to celebrate their independence.

Everyone has problems these days and victories/historic triumphs are a good distraction for a bit.
 

V4skunk

Banned
The same way they're going to celebrate India kicking their ass 73 years ago next month I'll expect.

At their peak, the English had a massive swathe of the world under their influence/control.. I don't imagine they spend time brooding over what they've lost as much as their former territories might choose to celebrate their independence.

Everyone has problems these days and victories/historic triumphs are a good distraction for a bit.
You don't know history you talk shit.
The British empire is now the British common wealth.
We gave it all up after ww2.
There was no war that kicked us out of India. Just a few years before India were fighting Japanese and nazis in British Indian empire army regiments.
 
You don't know history you talk shit.
The British empire is now the British common wealth.
We gave it all up after ww2.
There was no war that kicked us out of India. Just a few years before India were fighting Japanese and nazis in British Indian empire army regiments.

Touchy, touchy..

You don't know your history, you talk shit.

The Indian freedom movement dated back as far as 1857 - it started with a revolution, look it up. You think the Indians were pleased to have the Brits sit on them for over a 100 years? The fact that there were Indians fighting alongside the English was not because they cared for the English or their cause, but more a convenience for the British who had a large population they found easy to create an 'army' from.

Look, no one in the UK is going to give a rats ass when India CELEBRATES its independence on the 15th of August. But make no mistake, it will be a day that is celebrated.

Who did India get its independence from - the British.
How did they get that independence - because the Indians FOUGHT for it and the British did not have the economic ability/manpower to fight back in a place so far away from 'blighty' as they had in years past.

'gave it all up' - my dude, you guys (I'm assuming you're British from your post) ran when you couldn't handle the locals well enough. There's no shame in that, it's true for any country that had colonial ambitions in the past couple of centuries. You're richer for it - and the countries that now control their own destinies celebrate it.
 
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Touchy, touchy..

You don't know your history, you talk shit.

The Indian freedom movement dated back as far as 1857 - it started with a revolution, look it up. You think the Indians were pleased to have the Brits sit on them for over a 100 years? The fact that there were Indians fighting alongside the English was not because they cared for the English or their cause, but more a convenience for the British who had a large population they found easy to create an 'army' from.

Look, no one in the UK is going to give a rats ass when India CELEBRATES its independence on the 15th of August. But make no mistake, it will be a day that is celebrated.

Who did India get its independence from - the British.
How did they get that independence - because the Indians FOUGHT for it and the British did not have the economic ability/manpower to fight back in a place so far away from 'blighty' as they had in years past.

'gave it all up' - my dude, you guys (I'm assuming you're British from your post) ran when you couldn't handle the locals well enough. There's no shame in that, it's true for any country that had colonial ambitions in the past couple of centuries. You're richer for it - and the countries that now control their own destinies celebrate it.
It's no where near as black and white as you make it out to be.

The conquest of India itself was as much about making alliances and fighting alongside Indian armies against those that opposed it. India has always been divided on Britain and the days of empire, to this day there's still a large amount of respect for one another in both nations, as well as trade and migration going both ways. There's a reason why Asians are the largest ethnic minority group in the UK.

There's been a rewriting of history in the last couple of decades to portray it all as barbaric, oppressive and universally fought against, that we brits were tyrants and racists that exploited the poor brown people because we were little better than the Nazis.

And there was certainly a lot of horrific shit done, I don't deny that. Callousness towards lives, exploitation and xenophobia were problems throughout the time of the Empire, as was the case for every empire and pretty much all societies throughout history.

But the violent revolutionarys were not what ended the British rule of India. Quite the opposite in fact, such insurrection made vicious crackdowns easy to justify, and if anything prolonged British rule.

No, it was peaceful resistance, and the political and popular support for such movements, especially with Ghandi as it's figurehead, arguing so eloquently for freedom to the british people themselves, that put pressure on the UK government and eventually lead to the argument, that India should be given back it's own sovereignty, to win out.

The renowned bravery of the Indian soldiers that fought alongaide the British army in WW2 also did a bloody large amount of good too.

Also economically the Empire was not paying for itself well before the world wars. Hell, the massive amount of debt britian saddled itself with when ending slavery alone wasn't paid off until 2015.

People forget that once the conquering and expansion into new territory is done, and all the rewards that that conquering can bring in is over, you're left with nothing but administration and upkeep costs. Meanwhile, any new wealth that can be generated requires investment to get going and relies on a sustainable economy, all in an environment where a good chunk of the population will hate you, to the point they may well behave violently towards anything you do and anyone involved.

And let's face facts, there have been many, many empires throughout history, all of which encountered the same problems the British Empire did, and their general reactions to such resistance were horrific.

Mass crucifixions, burnings, stonings, decimations, genocides and mass enslavements, often putting whole cities to the sword, then salting the earth as a warning to others that might resist, that is what was the norm in quelling rebellion, and a far cry from even the worst atrocities comited in the name of the British Empire.

If Britain had wanted to keep the Empire, there were numerous such examples throughout history on how to do it, but the fact was we weren't the monsters so many want to paint us as today.

It was our comparative compassion that was what lead to the end of Empire. Not defeat, not incompetence, not weakness, but an unwillingness to compromise our values, that eventually had the last word.

It's why we have the Commonwealth and so many surviving colony nations today, instead of the mass graves that denote the end of every other empire throughout history.

Glorifying violent resistence and demonising imperialists as 2 dimension cartoon villains is an incredibly reductive and stupid way to view such a complicated era of world history.

It insults the memories of those heroic individuals on both sides that eventually came to agreement and built a better, more hopeful and freer future for both Britian and India, that has made both nations stronger and wealthier in the decades since.
 
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V4skunk

Banned
Touchy, touchy..

You don't know your history, you talk shit.

The Indian freedom movement dated back as far as 1857 - it started with a revolution, look it up. You think the Indians were pleased to have the Brits sit on them for over a 100 years? The fact that there were Indians fighting alongside the English was not because they cared for the English or their cause, but more a convenience for the British who had a large population they found easy to create an 'army' from.

Look, no one in the UK is going to give a rats ass when India CELEBRATES its independence on the 15th of August. But make no mistake, it will be a day that is celebrated.

Who did India get its independence from - the British.
How did they get that independence - because the Indians FOUGHT for it and the British did not have the economic ability/manpower to fight back in a place so far away from 'blighty' as they had in years past.

'gave it all up' - my dude, you guys (I'm assuming you're British from your post) ran when you couldn't handle the locals well enough. There's no shame in that, it's true for any country that had colonial ambitions in the past couple of centuries. You're richer for it - and the countries that now control their own destinies celebrate it.
You are brainwashed. We gave India up in 1948 comrade. There was no war, you are a liar.
The people in India also love the British people and are proud to be part of the British commonwealth. There is no hatred among India and Britain.
And the Indians that fought in the British Indian empire were fucking volunteers you fucking sausage.
 
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It's no where near as black and white as you make it out to be.

The conquest of India itself was as much about making alliances and fighting alongside Indian armies against those that opposed it. India has always been divided on Britain and the days of empire, to this day there's still a large amount of respect for one another in both nations, as well as trade and migration going both ways. There's a reason why Asians are the largest ethnic minority group in the UK.

There's been a rewriting of history in the last couple of decades to portray it all as barbaric, oppressive and universally fought against, that we brits were tyrants and racists that exploited the poor brown people because we were little better than the Nazis.

And there was certainly a lot of horrific shit done, I don't deny that. Callousness towards lives, exploitation and xenophobia were problems throughout the time of the Empire, as was the case for every empire and pretty much all societies throughout history.

But the violent revolutionarys were not what ended the British rule of India. Quite the opposite in fact, such insurrection made vicious crackdowns easy to justify, and if anything prolonged British rule.

No, it was peaceful resistance, and the political and popular support for such movements, especially with Ghandi as it's figurehead, arguing so eloquently for freedom to the british people themselves, that put pressure on the UK government and eventually lead to the argument, that India should be given back it's own sovereignty, to win out.

The renowned bravery of the Indian soldiers that fought alongaide the British army in WW2 also did a bloody large amount of good too.

Also economically the Empire was not paying for itself well before the world wars. Hell, the massive amount of debt britian saddled itself with when ending slavery alone wasn't paid off until 2015.

People forget that once the conquering and expansion into new territory is done, and all the rewards that that conquering can bring in is over, you're left with nothing but administration and upkeep costs. Meanwhile, any new wealth that can be generated requires investment to get going and relies on a sustainable economy, all in an environment where a good chunk of the population will hate you, to the point they may well behave violently towards anything you do and anyone involved.

And let's face facts, there have been many, many empires throughout history, all of which encountered the same problems the British Empire did, and their general reactions to such resistance were horrific.

Mass crucifixions, burnings, stonings, decimations, genocides and mass enslavements, often putting whole cities to the sword, then salting the earth as a warning to others that might resist, that is what was the norm in quelling rebellion, and a far cry from even the worst atrocities comited in the name of the British Empire.

If Britain had wanted to keep the Empire, there were numerous such examples throughout history on how to do it, but the fact was we weren't the monsters so many want to paint us as today.

It was our comparative compassion that was what lead to the end of Empire. Not defeat, not incompetence, not weakness, but an unwillingness to compromise our values, that eventually had the last word.

It's why we have the Commonwealth and so many surviving colony nations today, instead of the mass graves that denote the end of every other empire throughout history.

Glorifying violent resistence and demonising imperialists as 2 dimension cartoon villains is an incredibly reductive and stupid way to view such a complicated era of world history.

It insults the memories of those heroic individuals on both sides that eventually came to agreement and built a better, more hopeful and freer future for both Britian and India, that has made both nations stronger and wealthier in the decades since.

Let me first converse with the adult in this conversation. You're much more logical and objective in your arguments, I like that.

I'd like to apologize if my post suggested that there is an inherent hatred of the British (right now, I don't believe anyone in India really bothers about the UK) and that it took a violent uprising to get the British to leave India.

While the hatred at the time might have been par for the course - the peaceful resistance that was led by many Indian freedom fighters was definitely more mainstream at the time and better recognized. There were pockets of more extremist resistance, but that was not the driving force in the resistance effort.

That said, the English did not leave India because their values compelled them alone.

Even the National Archives from the UK speaks about how the educated Indian began to feel frustrated with the Brits as far back as 1880. And when India stopped being of economic value to the UK in the early 30's, it was easier to talk about leaving it - before the war got in the way.

More here

The British actively sabotaged the economies of one of the richest nations in the world for a time

For 'english educated' Indians as well, there are clear voices on the negative impact of a british occupation

(that last one is a long chat to listen to - but might be worth it since you seem open to hear other sides of a conversation)

I say again, countries that were colonized at some time this past century today can't be bothered about giving their former colonists the finger. The world is too complex a place for petty pissing contests and everyone has their problems.

But be it the 4th of July or the 15th of August, countries that worked for and found their own freedom from another are going to celebrate being in control of their futures. Their former 'oppressors' don't need to care.


You are brainwashed. We gave India up in 1948 comrade. There was no war, you are a liar.
The people in India also love the British people and are proud to be part of the British commonwealth. There is no hatred among India and Britain.
And the Indians that fought in the British Indian empire were fucking volunteers you fucking sausage.

Gave India up? Easy there buddy. You sound like you're about to give yourself an aneurysm, to compensate for your crappy awareness of the world.

Also, your wiki-fu is shit. The page you linked, says that India's independence was in 1947 not 1948 as you chose to type.

The 1857 I mentioned was the year in which the largest rebellion against the British in India took place. Seen by many as the starting points of the resistance against the English rule. Dating 1857 as the start of the resistance against the Brits vs Independence are two different things. Unless you have a reading/comprehension disability? In which case, I apologize.

The majority of the people in India don't care about the British or the commonwealth. They have more pressing concerns figuring out how to provide for their families. The people of India don't have the time to fawn over or hate someone from an era in the past that you think they need to cling to. Indian history taught in Indian schools today is distinctly more nationalistic - and will paint the period under the British as a time when India was oppressed.

Kids will know more about 'Jalianwalla Bagh and General Dyer' than they will know about anything positive that the Brits might have done at the time. That shouldn't come as a shock - history is written by the victors.

I also wouldn't die on the hill about the 'value the commonwealth' and India. The commonwealth is a platform the UK created for maintaining former imperial relationships with its colonies (to some, also a forum where they could showcase their athletic prowess by going up against weaker opposition). And while it has some value to smaller economies - as far as India goes its a platform for the UK to engage with India post-brexit.

So yeah, get over yourself. Imperial England did what it did for its own gains at heart. There was nothing wrong with that. And if folks celebrate throwing Imperial England out from their countries, so be it. Don't get your panties in a twist because you want everyone to sip on your shitty kool-aid.
 
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AV

We ain't outta here in ten minutes, we won't need no rocket to fly through space
We dumped Ricky Gervais, James Corden and Jim Sterling on you.

We won.

You forgot John Oliver. Probably the biggest Fuck You we've ever given the USA.
 

SilverCelestial

Neo Member
I'm sorry but you're going to have to explain the concept of an 'independence day'. As a Brit, we've never had anybody to become independent from.
 
I'm sorry but you're going to have to explain the concept of an 'independence day'. As a Brit, we've never had anybody to become independent from.
I mean technically, yes, Brits have never had to gain independence from another country (although an argument could be made about Brexit), but that's a bit disingenuous given that Britain itself was fundamentally England forcing a shared cultural identity based entirely on it's values and language on Scotland, Ireland and Wales.

Before that, we did get conquered, colonised and enslaved a fair few times, even if the last successful invasion was in 1066.

Hell, there's increasing archeology evidence we were an ancient Egyptian colony at one point several thousand years ago.

We're no strangers to a bit of conquest and occupation.
 

FunkMiller

Gold Member
It's amazing because I legit say the opposite. "The US has gone to shit but at least we aren't as bad as the UK." It's what has gotten me through our bullshit election year chaos.

What’s so bad about UK? Okay, the weather is shit, but free healthcare, freedom of speech, gorgeous countryside, welfare state that isn’t a complete disaster, no guns to worry about, very low crime outside major cities, fair(ish) tax system, very low poverty figures, still financial centre if the world...

Perfect? No. Awful? Also no. Better than America right now? Absolutely.
 

SilverCelestial

Neo Member
We're no strangers to a bit of conquest and occupation

This is why I find it amusing that some Americans think July 4th even registers on anybodies consciousness over here. This little island has such a rich (and bloody, it must be said) history, with countless invasions, uprisings, revolutions and conquests spread over millenia.

For our cousins in the US I can see why it is an important event in the nation's (comparatively short) history. For us, the American war of independence is just another historical offshore battle on a very long list.
 

asustitan

Banned
What’s so bad about UK? Okay, the weather is shit, but free healthcare, freedom of speech, gorgeous countryside, welfare state that isn’t a complete disaster, no guns to worry about, very low crime outside major cities, fair(ish) tax system, very low poverty figures, still financial centre if the world...

Freedom of Speech in the UK you are joking. A guy got a criminal record dragged through the courts for getting his pug dog do a Nazi salute as a joke.
 
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SilverCelestial

Neo Member
Really? Care to tell me when Britons won their 'independence' from Rome?

Roman rule was dissolved by an influx of invading tribes, most notably Germanic. The severence from the Roman empire didn"t come from within.

I would argue that being usurped by foreign invaders isn't the same as gaining independence.
 
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