SporeCrawler
Member
Question about the scottisch situation: if the british parliament just refuses to accept a new referendum then there is no way for sturgeon to start a binding referendum right?
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UK set to trigger Brexit on March 29
- Thread starter chadskin
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Funky Papa
FUNK-Y-PPA-4
I see the EP is taking their bad cop role to heart: Manfred Weber: I dont care about London any more
There's going to be a lot of posturing and grandstanding from both sides, but one thing is for certain: the harder the Brexit is, the less incentive there is for the EU not to enter the negotiation room like the golden horde.
Nope, and the way things are going both sides are going to come out looking bad.
I expect some panic deal thrown together at the last minute that's basically what we have now only with none of the UK opt outs and no say in decision making because both sides just give up and say "fuck it"
Funky Papa
FUNK-Y-PPA-4
This is just the EP drawing the line with sulphurous piss.
We knew they were going to be the tough ones, but bringing citizens and defence into play was such a terrible move. British tabloids hold no political power in the EU.
Linkstrikesback
Member
It's not really a negotiation. That would imply we have anything at all to offer the EU that they can't take by virtue of being the EU. It's closer to the UK politicians begging the EU to give us whatever table scraps they deem to leave the UK with.
SporeCrawler
Member
Why is EU going to look bad? At the worst EU companies will have to relocate production from UK to slovakia, bulgaria, poland etc. The banking sector will most likely go to frankfurt, brussels etc. Researchers will go where the money is and EU research funds will be bigger than UK research funds.
And once hard brexit is a reality UK wabts to cut taxes. If that happens (and EU retaliates with transaction taxes and customs) UK government will have not enough budget for their spending.
Thats the norwegian model and would be the worst case for britain. No say but bound to EU law
Worst scenario is that WTO rules apply meaning that prices in the UK will increase for everything and manfacturers will leave the country. Also UK will no longer be able to do any financial services for EU countries and legal, accounting etc. services will take a hit as well.
By the time there is a GE. Britain is out and would have to reapply (like scotland and catalonia
).Miles Quaritch
Member
You're forgetting the EU owes the UK a good deal. It's to their benefit to bend over for the UK and give them the best deal.
Just imagine if all those old people who've retired in in Spain decided to leave in disgust? The Spanish economy wouldn't survive.
SporeCrawler
Member
By the time there is a GE. Britain is out and would have to reapply (like scotland and catalonia
I think nobody in the EU would oppose a norwegian deal. It means that UK is a de facto- colony of the EU (its baffling that norwegians agreed to this)
The UK owes EU 60 billion Euros.
Also old people retired in spain want to give up great weather and come back to the rainy island probably loosing a lot of money? Yeah right
Miles Quaritch
Member
Next general election is in 2020 if I'm not mistaken.
PJV3
Member
I'm not expecting a fast track but beyond the remains of the UK being difficult there doesn't seem to be much to get in the way. Even if they achieve independence which is a few years away at least and the possible Brexit transition deal taking us up to 2022 it could work out alright for Scotland .
It's bloody complicated to try and put all these pieces together mentally, and that's if everyone behaves rationally.
The EU doubling down on the "no negotiations with absolutely anybody until you're out" doesn't exactly make them look good. I know it's in the laws/rules, but it comes across as unsavoury at best.
It's something that May can, and will, play up hugely both in the UK and internationally.
Holy shit! Thought I'd check that bit you mentioned as I'd only seen the Merkel comment on the Guardian not the French one. Can't see any mention on the BBC news website of the negative French or German comments, plenty if I search Google for other news websites.
It's 10am and the Guardian ran that story yesterday. The BBC has gone full Ministry of Truth already.
I never got this gif.So, in summary, what you're saying is...
Is it because his hands are shaking? Or is there something else I am missing.
Or is it just the simple fact that he's so delusional with his obsession and lying, that he doesn't know how ridiculously he sounds.
I agree. But the UK would have to apply to this. Next GE won't be until 2020.
firehawk12
Subete no aware
What are the chances that the Conservative government falls before Brexit negotiations are complete and a Labour government decides to just scrap everything and stay in the EU?
Funky Papa
FUNK-Y-PPA-4
Do you mean the masses of British pensioners straning the healthcare system and never venturing outside of their enclaves, keeping afloat British owned business that so oftenly engage in the most brazen acts of tax dodging?
I think we'd do fine.
British pensioners stopped being hugely profitable the day the housing bubble popped. Now that they are not buying land they are not what you'd call a gold mine. Some parts of the coast would take a hit, but for the most part the damage would be very contained.
Not while Corbyn is in charge. He'd double down on a hard Brexit. He's more anti-EU than even Farage has ever been.
SporeCrawler
Member
Its a simple negotiation tactic.
EU has less to loose in case of the worst outcome so they can adhere to the procedure anf move slowly
APZonerunner
Member
Corbyn currently only has 25% voting intention, and among Labour voters less of them think he's more suitable a prime minister than May. But he can't be dislodged because an enthusiastic base for him - not enough to ever get near election - has seized the party. It's a grim time.
Funky Papa
FUNK-Y-PPA-4
This is happening because May keeps pushing for the contrary. If any, it reflects poorly on May since she holds no carrot nor stick, yet here we are.
I'm not disputing that they can do that perfectly legally, but it still makes them come across fairly bad.
PJV3
Member
I thought Farage hated everything about the EU including the people, Corbyn just hated the economic rules.
Another lovely flavour next to May's blatant threat to the EU's security apparatus.
Funky Papa
FUNK-Y-PPA-4
EU: No negotiations until divorce terms are settled.
UK: Sure, whatever.
***article 50***
UK: Can I has trade deal?
EU: We said no. Divorce first.
UK: Trade deal.
EU: First divorce, then talks.
UK: Let's make a trade deal.
EU: We said no.
UK: Trade deal.
EU: Did we stutter?
Yeah, I don't think the EU is looking bad unless in the eyes of those curious gents who believe that the UK is entitled to something because of reasons.
Shadowhelper
Banned
That already happened. That's why May triggered article 50 this early, and announced it not long ago too. I think for Westminister, it was probably an impossible task the sheer amount of work and negotiating and staff and planning involved, is breathtaking.
There is very little hardcoded formal parts to article 50, as it is unprecedented and was never expected to be used. So the manner of leaving, in terms of paperwork and negotiations was always going to be up to the EU. Clearly, at some point, due to the EU attitude, which is completely understandable, May just gave up.
There are some Tory patriots that care and recognize how sad of a day it is. But David Cameron just said today he agrees that brexit had to happen, or some shit. That fucking asshole. Even after all this he won't admit any folly. That irks me more than anything else.
Absolutely the latter, 100%.
So, 300.000 retired British are saving Spain right now. God save the queen.
The Norwegians voted against it. Twice. Then the government went ahead and did it anyway.
I dont see how this could be viewed as anything but negative for the UK and the UK's fault.
I dont understand how anyone can look at the headline and agree with it and say yeah serves them right and us. Our papers and politicians are the dumbest shit heads.
I don't understand why the UK is leaving either. Right now they have the best EU deal, was even better when Cameron a got a little bit more before Brexit.
So now the UK wants to cherry pick free trade, tariffs, cooperation etc. for nothing practically while following no rules, basically still be in the EU in name only.
The EU has said they won't budge on four freedoms which the UK won't agree to either so you're left with no deal or a crap one. Even if the UK agrees to the four freedoms for trade etc. what is the point in the UK leaving the EU if it's just a worse deal than what we have now or no deal which is absolutely stupid.
There is no logic to it. UK can't have EU perks without being in it to some degree. Out if it, UK is screwed. Why leave only to get a worse deal and accepting things you were leaving for apparently. It makes no sense.
I actually think the talks between the UK and the EU will be mostly worthless and quick not even needing the 2 years, let alone a year because there is nothing to discuss that can logically happen except the UK leaving completely or accepting the four freedoms, there is no middle ground that works for the UK and EU has no reason to compromise.
So now the UK wants to cherry pick free trade, tariffs, cooperation etc. for nothing practically while following no rules, basically still be in the EU in name only.
The EU has said they won't budge on four freedoms which the UK won't agree to either so you're left with no deal or a crap one. Even if the UK agrees to the four freedoms for trade etc. what is the point in the UK leaving the EU if it's just a worse deal than what we have now or no deal which is absolutely stupid.
There is no logic to it. UK can't have EU perks without being in it to some degree. Out if it, UK is screwed. Why leave only to get a worse deal and accepting things you were leaving for apparently. It makes no sense.
I actually think the talks between the UK and the EU will be mostly worthless and quick not even needing the 2 years, let alone a year because there is nothing to discuss that can logically happen except the UK leaving completely or accepting the four freedoms, there is no middle ground that works for the UK and EU has no reason to compromise.
Devil's advocate
Member
He's celebrating a big win even though it's obvious that the real trouble is only about to start.
It's a lot like the infamous "Mission Accomplished" picture of GWB after the Iraq War had ended.
Eh? May's position was like trying to negotiate a good deal on a Sky subscription with the late payments department that are phoning you for money.
Sure, theoretically you can have both conversations in parallel, but given that the starting point for one is very much predicated on the outcome of the other it makes no logical sense to do so.
PJV3
Member
To be fair to Cameron, when professional lying bastard Boris became acceptable it probably did.
NiiloPielinen
Member
When would UK be able to join EU again? How long would the process take?
All of this is common sense to anyone who has been paying the slightest bit of attention for the last year. Say what you will about misinformed and disillusioned voters who fell for the big Vote Leave con for whatever reasons, but that such a huge portion of our parliament, seemingly intelligent and successful people, went for this is unforgivable. I can't get my head around it.
I know there is a contingent of the 'fuck you, got mine' wealthy crowd within government, but I still can't grasp how so many MPs gleefully sit there at PMQs guffawing and jeering at the SNP and the Lib Dems who dare to question this monumentally stupid and self-harming course of action. Like, do none of them have a shred of conscience or shame? Don't they want to leave the country a better and more prosperous place than when they found it? Are they really that delusional and blind to the facts that they think this will work out well for the UK, or do they really just not care?
Fuck, I really just wish there were more 'good guys' in parliament. Feels like I could count them on one hand at the moment.
lol WTF, NHS wouldn´t survive, Spain´s economy would be fine.
SporeCrawler
Member
Bad for whom? As a EU citizen it seems to be perfectly sound conduct
Those old people coming back and wrecking our NHS!
I guess once you've done poor people, immigrants then old people are next on the hate train.
When they came for the poor....
When they came for the immigrants....
When they......oh nooo.
Dreams-Visions
Member
UK is fuckin funny if they think they're going to get the same deals they had before with EU nations without actually being in the EU.
I understand the leadership has to try, but lol.
I understand the leadership has to try, but lol.
The problem is that MPs care about their seat more than they care about the country.
Labour in particular is the problem. Instead of being an opposition, they become an accomplice. They care more about their seats. Labour has lost all credibility and stands for nothing.
Labour in particular is the problem. Instead of being an opposition, they become an accomplice. They care more about their seats. Labour has lost all credibility and stands for nothing.
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